Jasun Horsley | Organized Malevolence, Big Mother, & The Counterfeit Dreams of Hollywood

00:03 The planets poppin' masters almost surely have em There's clearly maybe something there beyond the realm of And until you've thoroughly tested every last course Just a few think you know, the less you really do That's true Dr. Seuss! We'd be without TAT Cause we know they're lying to us just don't know Without TAT The higher side chat show It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, people. From the Sunshine State I'm Greg Carlwood and it feels as if modern man is running on empty these days.

00:43 Economically depleted, ideologically lost and spiritually atrophied in a culture that seems to celebrate this curated condition and exploits what's missing from our inner world with marketing driven everything vomiting up false promises that things are fine just enjoy your life watch the game update your phone and chive on. The Black Iron Prison becomes a McDonald's play place with a fresh coat of rainbow paint, and that hole will be filled with just a little more mass consumption and a new binge-worthy offering from the Hollywood hellscape. Well the only thing more worrying to me than the state of things is the horror in realizing that so few around us even see it

01:20 But soon we'll all be taken up into a nice, comfy corporate digital womb where we won't have to think about such things and our thumbs will never have to leave our mouths. Or at least that's the path laid out in the latest book from today's guest Jason Horsley entitled Big Mother The Technological Body of Evil If you're unfamiliar with Jason's work, he is the author of several books covering film analysis pop culture psychology trauma sexual abuse mind control malevolence in high places and the innate goodness of the natural experience. Previous titles include Prisoner of Infinity, Social Engineering UFOs and the Psychology of Fragmentation. The Vice of Kings How Fabianism Occultism in the Sexual Revolution Engineered a Culture of Abuse. The Kubrickon The Cult Of Kubrick Attention Capture And The Inception of AI. And 16 Maps of Hell The Unraveling of Hollywood Superculture Among Others

02:15 You can find his older work including the Liminalist podcast archived at Autoculture.com and his recent work on the Children of Job sub stack as well as a newer website LandmadeMan.com where he seeks to offer healthy, natural ancient and ancestral alternatives to our anti-life system have organized malevolence in hard to forego conveniences and get us back to the land I know i'm ready. The original cognitive dissident, deep diving parapolitical author and alarm sounder on our engineered disembodiment Jason welcome to the higher side. Hi Greg, I heard trumpets in the background on that last bit

02:53 You can't do that i wish well this is a true pleasure i know some of the listeners have been hounding me for a long time to make this happen and i find you to be really talented writer sixteen maps of hell is incredible almost six hundred pages dissecting the dark underbelly of hollywood. Maybe we can start there and build up two big mother but to kick this off, Actually wanna pull from your sub stack post titled insane image hollywood and the creation of a counterfeit religion where you write. Cinema is simply too powerful and to pervasive a tool of social control to be ignored by any group or ideology that wishes to extend its influence there is simply no way to compete in the economy of attention without it, it would be like coming to a gunfight with flyers and pamphlets. And that is well said just the kind of thing i like but elaborate on why film and hollywood

03:51 as this weaponized and addictive cultural implant, as you call it is so effective and so dangerous for us. Okay I'm glad that you started with my latest substat because it's fresh on the other hand its kinda curious or bizarre to me that I can't seem to leave this dead horse alone a Hollywood dead horse I mean I seem just keep flogging it I guess there must be life in it is the point so I am trying make sure it's dead I'm trying to understand. One of the books you didn't mention, I think in your list was Seen and Not Seen Confessions of a Movie Artist which is when I really began the process of trying to deprogram myself through writing that's how I consider all my books from seen and not seen on with a specific focus on movies because movies were my religion. Martin Scorsese said movies were my life. Marx said religion is the opening of masses well

04:51 Movies were my religion and my opium. I know i'm not alone in that, but I feel quite alone actually really trying to get to the core of this spell that's cast so it's a very fitting question to lead with and it's amazing how much evidence there is for that statement you took from my sub-step that any group interested in social control will use movies like I quoted in 16 Maps of Hell some banker whose name i don't remember because I just quoted him for this, but I recently read that Lenin said the same thing. If we can seize control over movies we'll have them so it's quite out there out in the open if you want to look how much acknowledgement there is for the power of movies for social engineering and manipulation shaping

05:45 the architecture of consciousness, let's say. MK culture is the buzz term these days but to answer your question directly... not directly because I just did a preamble but to get to a direct answer what came to me anyway has to do with dreams that Movies do simulate dreams, they're waking dreams and they're collective dreams. That was my first approach to them you can analyze society and culture if you look at movies because they are collective dreams but I was leaving out the parapolitical aspect in my early writings it was there in the footnotes To some degree it's valid. Movies are to some extent shaped by the whole collective consciousness, to use a Jungian term of humanity or whatever that might be... But because the element 60 Maps Of Hell gets into is this parapolitical conscious side angle to movies

06:41 that have to do with creating dreams. It's very like the Matrix actually, which is a movie it's unfortunate to refer to now but it's also kind of the living example this. Yes, the people who make movies harvest the consciousness of the audiences to gather the material they know will be effective but they're shaping it towards their own end. But anyway what they're doing is creating or it's called the dream factory, that they're factory manufactured surrogate or counterfeit dreams. And the act of watching a movie whether it's collectively as it used to be in theater or in singly alone now on your smartphone and what have you... You are becoming part of a collective dream! You're re-entering into a dream state which actually goes all the way back to the womb because if we think when were in the womb we would have been dreaming

07:39 And that's all we would have been doing, right? We wouldn't have had a sense of physical existence because it would just be inside the mother's body, which brings us to Big Mother. But as consciousness there would have been some sort of dreaming I think we can imagine so it is fair enough to speculate anyway that our original consciousness is closer to dream what we think of as dream and waking consciousness. So if you can incept people's dreams and if you can colonize people's dreams then you've got their waking selves well, by extension. Because you're tapping into the unconscious and as is...well yeah I'm skeptical about Freud of course he's given us the lingo and I don't trust any of these people who gave us the terms we have to use but it does seem to be experientially observable that what drives human beings is mostly unconscious so that's my kind of long-winded answer. The movies target the unconscious

08:35 I like it i like it and counterfeit dreams of hollywood probably gonna be part of the title for this one so obviously with hollywood these days were learning a lot more about child abuse in honey pots and debauchers behavior in that hole underbelly. But i think the deeper question about people in hollywood that still nag me is, Who are these people because you dissect the lives of some big actors and their origin stories. And you find that they're often convoluted and mysterious very a typical. And their films sometimes seem to me or their lives in really odd and specific ways with plot points that, same ripped out of their own background. And you just start to wonder if it really is a secret society or cult and the perception that you can come from

09:33 the outside and just make it might really be an illusion. But what are your thoughts on these household names, and their almost metaphysical lives? I think you're probably thinking of Jack Nicholson as an example with Chinatown that came out in fact his mother was his sister right before that there's a number of overlaps if you read 60 Maps between Chinatown the fiction Latruther Polanski, for example. John Houston, Jack Nicholson... My thesis with Chinatown was that the trendy term is revelation of method but that's a bit of a conspirataiment term now it's a bit too simple and it's not just that anyway but there was kind of crowing about their crimes in Chinatown I've noticed as an MO

10:21 Jimmy Savile, the infamous British DJ who after he died was exposed as a serial rapist child abuser predator you name it for 50 years. He exhibited this like he would actually brag about his crimes but make it look like a joke and Well, you look back and you see while he wasn't joking. He was just boasting about the stuff that he was doing that he was getting away with and that was an expression of power. You can imagine how that would be a power trip to be able to joke about your crimes when nobody does anything about it particularly knowing that those victims will see that and feel utterly powerless. It's very sinister thinking about it as a psychological thing but also gratifying for kind of narcissistic psychopathic type

11:07 So with Chinatown, I started to look at it as similar... not a joke film obviously but the film in which the criminals involved Robert Evans would be another one. The celebrity criminals were essentially turning their crimes into art and winning awards for it. You imagine how gratifying that would be? And this is probably secret or cold kind of you know, this idea of consent. If you reveal what you're doing and say it's a revelation method to the public and they don't do anything about it in fact they give you awards for it then right? You've got them! You can just say well look I told you you were doing it and you applauded. In a way it's hard to argue with that except because it's very subtle what they're doing

11:53 And Chinatown is also, let's say a good movie. It's the thing I'm exploring now – the difference between aesthetically good and ethically good. Chinatown is aesthetically a good movie but ethically not for the reasons that I've just touched upon. As far as who are they? Jack Nicholson…nobody actually knows who he is. I found out through David McGowan's Weird Scenes in The Canyon. He doesn't have a birth certificate. He's kind of mystery player So that's an extreme example. But yeah, many of them do have these shady affiliations – not all of them who knows? But certainly there are different levels and so what's occurring to me as we're talking about it now is that this secret society thing would be too

12:45 ways in which somebody like a celebrity, criminal could be part of the secret society. One is they're already inducted into something that it's very difficult to speculate about occult secret societies and then the masonic thing that allows you to know the keys or the steps or people or connections to succeed. The other is by succeeding you are being inducted into a secret society which is more says we're less traditional. It's a sort of, and I'm only thinking this now so it's not going to be entirely coherent but it's the sort of replica of these more ancient secret societies which probably do continue to exist and exert influence but it's a more modern up-day replica that's created out of whole cloth in a way. So you can imagine that Angelina Jolie for example her father was John Boy

13:39 There was that video on YouTube that suggested she was actually involved in ritual blood drinking. So there's all this speculation about them being in the Illuminati, but it's possible and even likely that it's more like kids playing stuff, Marina O'Brien which comes to mind, that they've picked up by osmosis, they read about, heard about and learned about half-in and half out This is what kids do. They see what the adults are doing, peeking through the doors and then they imitate it I would suspect... And I've never had this thought before so getting it fresh right? It's like that! A lot of celebrities they're given all this power and influence they don't even know why but they have a sense of the world that they're in and then they start imitating it and of course audience members you know fans and general public are doing this too

14:34 because they admire and imitate the celebrities. So it's such a broad spectrum, this secret society corruption conspiracy culture is such a broad spectrum that includes everybody because it includes the end user as well because we become complicit any sort of discussion of what are they in secrecy? Are they not? A you can never confirm this stuff. It's always speculative because you can't trust the whistleblowers either so you don't get even the inside information you're not sure about. And B, it's not either or. It's not either are they and are they not? It's different levels... I mean i just made this point coming subsect that all movies came to us through organized crime because even if they weren't funded and organized produced by organized criminals, the fact that they arrived to us means they have to come through the channels of organized crime but

15:31 There are more ethically pure, less toxic products because the people who actually make them are less inducted into these secret societies. So it is a spectrum that's worth mapping absolutely. Yeah it is interesting to think of it as a spectrum because Some actors seem to go through pretty unscathed like a kiana reaves he seems to keep his distance from the machine i suppose but it has to know what's going on. Within and then there is people who seem fully engaged and loving every minute of it and hanging out every weekend at the playboy mansion probably, are not thousand different video recordings of doing really unsafe everythings but they feel like you'll never reach light today cuz they're in the call

16:19 But you mentioned the term can spare a time and i'm guilty of dancing on that line i like things to be provocative and. Entertaining but if we're not talking about something that is truthful then we really are wasting time but you do hear these terms like eight millimeter magic in the dark arts of hollywood, add that it's a cold test to our really making these films And i don't know to what degree like you said it could be osmosis they could be larping and a send some of them. But it seems like the real filmmakers know something more about consciousness stay no something more about how,

16:55 Films can be weaponized a very introductory example is just the military involvement you can't use military equipment without paying the military in a positive light, they save us from the aliens every time you could say something similarly about science and just movies like outbreak. And just the idea that well You better be thankful for the white lab coats because they're the ones who are gonna save us when the monkeys get loose and this sort of stuff there's always a perceptual framing of things where the ones who are really wrecking the planet or the good guys but.

17:32 There does seem to be something metaphysical about actors taking on roles or just the nature of filmmaking. If you go back to Greece, people will talk about the old plays being acted out that they're actually embodying or channeling the gods in a sense and maybe some of that is still going on in today's films but as a weaponized tool for the masses and maybe this leads us into Big mother is a technology were now experiencing like a leap in technology and now maybe the focus is more on silicon valley than it is hollywood northern california rather than southern. But as a weaponized tool what do you think people should really be careful about when absorbing this content because it does have deeper effects then, i think alot of people realize

18:25 Yeah. Well, this extends to, as you mentioned, conspiratainment too and it isn't as simple... For example that you use the military example that they have to be portrayed positively or a film like Apocalypse Now which I mentioned in my last piece in this context That didn't have military cooperation, at least that's the official story. And then Coppola was making an anti-war film and he did it and it's a masterpiece... But as I made this is the sequence with the rise of Valkyries people in the military loved that so they made them look fucking awesome! Is Coppola just naive? Maybe

19:08 And it's six to one and a half dozen others. But the main point is that the objective was achieved, it didn't matter... Well first of all he got his helicopter without military involvement and it gave him more plausible deniability. It gives the movie more credibility as a genuine anti-war movie but the effects that we're talking about are much subtler than Top Gun so the same applies this thing about conspiratayment. I've talked about this over the years and sometimes, I wonder if i'm self-sabotaging or just too negative identity, you know? Just always trying to put down the competition but I've often talked about Alex Jones or David Icke in this context that it's not that they're... well, I mean Alex Jones is really a terrible example but David Icke…I've got some affection for David Icke…it's not really to do with

20:03 how true it is or even how oversimplified it is. It's not only that, but also how earned this knowledge really is? How much has David Icke really earned this knowledge? But more to the point, how much does he make you and me earn as we're passing on? Because in The Garden of Eden and The Knowledge Of Good And Evil was all about premature slash unearned knowledge. That was the problem where a serpent came and said hey do you want to know and that got their attention. And then if we're given information in the wrong context, we're not prepared for it, it's going to destabilize us

20:42 So we've seen this in the culture and I think it's a deliberate agenda. This, I've crunched it down before and others have too that at certain point when it became between the printing press and the internet, it became obvious that information couldn't be tightly controlled the way it was in the past so gradually the policy shifted to information inundation. And now of course we're in the age of information overload you've seen that extended particularly to the subjects we're talking about. We saw it with COVID, if I can mention these words now without getting bad... When you try to discuss it with people they would say well you've got your sources and I have my sources. The feeling was somehow that not exactly all information is created equal but there's some truth in this nobody knew for sure so you just had to pick who you believed and of course

21:39 connected to the same thing. If you don't do your own research and go to source materials and so on, then yes, you're at the mercy of disseminators." I'm going to segue now Greg be prepared, like in-the-room stuff because I like it too. I did think quite long and hard about whether it's come on the high side chats even though I'd emailed a few times over years to say hey, they want me on. It was because I know that you talk to a bunch of people that I think are disinformation agents, absolutely. I can name names." Please do! I can take the heat it's alright. Yeah well can they or can i right? Well I've only looked at your recent list but Eric Davis is last who I talked about recently and Eric Davis is very sus. I like the guy and I spent time with him he's super bright but he's complicit with all kinds of bullshit

22:33 You mentioned Pasulka down, Pasulka absolutely sus. Maybe unwitting? I think the last time I looked at your list was a few years before that and now you've talked to quite a few Crowleyites. Crowleys just so toxic! I have very high standards in that regard because I feel those of us who are trying to unplug from... Oh God, I can't use that analogy but trying program myself to the set and get good information we enter this minefield why call the second matrix which is just full of dodgy salesman who are peddling

23:15 It's like spike ground, as what they say with gold prospecting. They're putting good information – it's real gold in the ground – but they're making you think that this is a real pastry and it's not. It's attention harvesting and all that but the honeypot, I should express, in their honey pot So, you know, the high side chest. I don't know is it one of those honey pools? Should I enter into it?" Well, I absolutely understand the nature of being skeptical especially in the conspiracy space. I mean skeptical bordering on paranoid that's how we tend to operate about everything And i am just one guy trying to find my way but i think a lot of the times the gas selection it comes from bunch of different places sometimes its me finding something interesting and then asking a person, and then i find out about their previous book like who i don't really like that when all that much for already. In it now already asked i should look before

24:11 sometimes it's publishers to send me things i'm like well this makes a little easier because i've emailed ten people this week and gotten one response back. And it takes awhile that i just work in then for it to go nowhere not result in the show when the clock is taken, sometimes its bad but guys like eric davis even mitch horowitz Yeah, Mitch. Whitley Street Radio had on recently I mean he's a big fish. veer off and they're not kind to conspiratorial thinkers. And I even with Mitch Horowitz quoted a few things that he said, what is this about? And he really didn't have much of an answer but i was like look we have to be skeptical of power! That's all conspiracy theorists are trying to do is try to be skeptical of power the crowleyite thing you know that it more just trying too if your curious about power or your curious about the dark stuff

25:11 Then you gotta talk to people who research the dark stuff. I'm not advocating to be a follower of Crowley, but i want to know about it." To be fair, I don't know how much you challenge and confront and like...I'm very selective about my guests not just because I got this ethic but because I don't want the headache and the stress of having to challenge these guys. And I don't do a lot of that! Well, because I would have to. You know when head-to-head with Peter Lavender but not on a podcast but through email and then eventually up Kevin Chapter and Vice of Kings that was heavy! That was stressful because if you find one who really is in a lifetime actor or paid like whatever you want to call them... But particularly if they're involved in the occult which these guys are Davis Horowitz obviously Streber, Kreipel

26:00 Lavenda, then they've got some heavy juju. Yeah it's true and I'm not equipped to spar with someone like Peter Lavenda i mean just his background is got all kinds of things that you could say are red flags but it's like you have to have a real depth of knowledge to even go to some of that stuff and I'm really not the guy to be able to do that I would say and you certainly are what's your problem with Jeff Kripal? You haven't read Prisoner of Infinity, obviously. No, Jeff Kripal is advocating... It seems like a cultism lie but that's the thing he's a mainstreamer. He's a bit like a permeator on those Fabians. He's mainstreaming the dark stuff by advocating streamer, by advocating trauma genesis was my first thing. Like he advocates trauma as a means to fight in states of awareness

26:55 And that's very fishy. I don't want to cut you off and I don't want to derail this whole conversation, but I don't think he advocates...I think he just acknowledges that trauma can be associated with triggering spiritual paranormal type events Right there as you unwittingly zeroed in on the problem is that paranormal and spiritual are not like...to conflate those two things especially for a religious scholar is just crazy and you think Pasulka, in my piece on Pasulka I mentioned she just doesn't talk about demons. She's talking about Catholicism and all this stuff...I can't remember but certainly she spoke to Catholics. She won't go into demonology same with Pripal so are they just scared or are they

27:42 deliberately obscuring six or a half dozen years. But if you're going to try and deal, wrestle with these realities and you say well I don't do demons and they don't do conspiracy but I'm gonna talk about how trauma can be good for you come on! I mean it's... We'll bring it back to general since we don't want get too sidetracked but the general point about Hollywood that I was making is similar here as that it's a wide spectrum in terms of And you mentioned power. I mean, that's really the key if you want to challenge power by being a conspiracy theorist or what have your writing and researching about these things then you're not going to get very far. I don't mean that you'll get killed. It can happen it does happen but you're not going to get promoted enough in our success in algorithms where pick you up

28:33 So it's six and a half dozen of the others, hard if not impossible to be sure with some of these characters whether they're simply because they're in academia like Davis he PhD'd under Krypon. Those are the time I met him actually and then i know somebody who was at Rice University who can corroborate all my worst suspicions about this stuff It's heavy occult stuff that they're getting into these guys And that of course overlaps, whether they'll admit it or even know it with the levels of political and social and academic power. that world of them moving in. And even something as simple but as current as the COVID thing, if you are angling for power and influence or success let's just say and you start questioning the COVID narrative and the mRNA things... That's it! It's game over for you. It's really become very

29:32 How people now in the last few years who's just where they knew isn't yeah and i appreciate the analysis i see what you see i just think u probably cast a wider net you. Capture more people within that net then i tend to, And my approach is just find people that i think have interesting counterculture types of things to say. And let the chips fall where they may and let the audience decide who can be trusted in who cant, and there are some gas you won't touch my show because of association with the word conspiracy happens all the time i kind of change the marketing do not use that word because the words so loaded

30:16 And there's other guests like yourself who are really deep level researchers who don't like to come on a show associated with some of these other names. And to that I say, well look every show is self-contained if you say no then i'm just stuck with the shills then it's just a show of shills so if the hardcore uncompromisable researchers won't come on I gotta put on a show! I've been accused of being a shill myself. We all are! It's not so much that I wouldn't want to come on to be associated with that, it's just how conducive is the environment to getting into the truth? It's more about... I hope it's very conducive. Will your audience want to hear it – not that I'm offering the truth, that would be very presumptuous – but around these areas… Yeah, I do cast the net very wide but that is from years of experience

31:10 I consider myself that I offer quite a broad overview because I was myself angling to be in this camp. I was an occultist, I was trying to climb the social ladder and I was trying to get into Hollywood. I really... So drank the Kool-Aid, that's a bad analogy but you know it took the jab back then, I would never have taken the vaccine back then. But I was always paranoid aware but I was never paranoid aware enough i still don't think i am well that's why i try to have grace for people who took the jab because. I happen to be awake and aware way past that point but if i was born in nineteen ninety five i might not been if i was born two thousand three i might not have been i'm lucky to have had enough awareness to be,

31:56 immune to this particular op. Now, I probably fell for some earlier ones but it's all about timing right and where a person is in their life. I think COVID seemed like a pretty obvious one to me once it started to roll through but that's because I've been through a few things before." Yeah the main thing there I would say is that if somebody makes mistake and fall for something that's not so serious because we all do it as if they double down and they don't acknowledge it So I'd apply this just to finish this point about the Davidsons and the Kripals. Things have changed so much, the landscape in the last few years... If they're still dissing conspiracy then that's it, I'm sorry because we've passed a point where you can legitimately say you don't know that conspiracies are central to our society without being a liar or an idiot. And so if you know they're not idiots than they'll be liars. That's my simple point there.

32:48 Yeah, I mean i understand and agree with your analysis of some and then on some other ones. I don't see it but you know we don't want to spend this whole time going case by case through each individual but let's talk a little bit more about truth because this was something that was gonna bring up So with topics like covid or the holocaust etc to say these narratives can't ever be questioned like that only breeds skepticism so i think the better approach is you must prove the better case through engagement with the counter-narratives. You can't just shut them down and you do that quite often, the sub stack has gone into the holocaust nazi stuff pretty thoroughly

33:32 You also have a pin to tweet that says truth fears no investigation honest investigation fears no truth and i definitely agree with that and you said one of the many tricks up reception management is the forces to make illegitimate choices between two options that are equally invalid also well set towards the end of The book you have a line i like a lot where you say one of the central recurring problems that sixteen maps of hell addresses really all my books and maybe all books period. Is the question of truth and how to identify it put more specifically which version of the narrative do we believe, add that really is it so often people have a deep understanding

34:15 of a deception in one area and then they take some common fact for granted in another area and don't apply the same critical thinking. And we are living in an avalanche of false narratives about everything, so it's a daunting task to get everything right but what do you consider some important principles or techniques for honing in on the narratives that are at least closest to the truth? Well the first thing that comes to mind roughly. This began, as I said with seen and not seen in particular Vice of Kings when it started to discover... because it started with seeing and not seeing the last few chapters as I was looking at my brother's death and why did he die or how did he die? That led me to my grandfather, my paternal grandfather that led me to the Fabian Society. And I had ignored this stuff about the Fabian Society very topical because you know the new government in the UK is heavily Fabian and they're bragging about

35:15 I'd ignored it because it just seemed a bit tainted. It seems sort of right wing, LaRouche-y kind of conspiracy theory stuff so I just hadn't bothered to look into it but because it was family stuff I did. So anyway the principle talking about here is always find the intersection between cliches, the personal and political. Here's the personal and the parapolitical or the personal on the paranoid. And this is self examination like for me Socrates said, an unexamined life is not worth living. Know thyself etc., to me self-examination is the name of the game really at least the essential means to the end of getting to the truth as we call it like Truth capital T. It may not get us all away but certainly has to be part of the process. We have to examine ourselves internally and our behaviors and our addictions and everything

36:11 That's a philosophical approach, really. At least that what it has been called is philosophical psychological theological if you go even further back and bring in metaphysics. So for me my approach to narratives that facilitate social engineering and conspiracy theory of the masses is to always have embedded in this deeper inquiry self-inquiry. And so that means like That's interesting because self-examination, yes but also examining the sources. Because every clue we get comes from somewhere it either comes from our own experience which are the best clues but they're very limited or it comes from other people essentially can be groups can be books but they're basically other people or demons or angels if you're going to include a metaphysical

37:03 but you can't examine the metaphysical very easily. But human beings can be examined, so this has always also been said to my approach and it's considered bad form was like I kind of wanted to bring it up with you not because its bad form but because I wish it wasn't bad form just saying hey let's keep it personal lets keep in the room we're just ordinary humans who shit an eat fuck all rest of that We're not just disseminators of knowledge or narratives. So nothing is independent from its source, so how much you can trust a clue or lead... Obviously the first determinant is the lead itself like how solid it is? Can you cooperate with where does it lead you but at least the second if not equal is what's the source about and what was their motivations etc., etc.?

37:58 I mean, that's kind of a general answer. It's specific and it's general, but hopefully sufficient. Yes! Indeed. And man i can't believe her almost halfway through this thing we haven't really talked about big mother we got a full of them it's the latest work is why we do the dance. Can you kick off the book saying for my whole life without knowing that i was formulating at thesis few years ago i gave an aim i called it the big mother thesis, it began with the premise that are disembodied as human beings as a species is being engineered

38:34 And that at the same time we are engineering it through technology with hindsight this thesis began appropriately enough with movies i say appropriately because movies were my first focus as a young writer and because they offer an experience of immersion in a surrogate reality. Well talk to us about this engineered disembodied how far back can we track its development and what is the state of today, such a big subject. I'm always trying to create, discover slash create the unified theory of conspiracy and of culture. What ties it all together? So that was what came upon as a phrase was disembodiment agenda and then the Big Mother thing kind

39:22 became quickly woven into it. I think, I hit upon it really with the last chapter of 16 Maps of Hell. I think that made Big Mother inevitable as the next book even though 16 Maps was supposed to be the last book and even though a lot of Big Mother had already written because I've been circling this problem without actually wanting or daring to go all the way into it so haven't gone all the way into it So, our first relationship is to the mother and I touched on this before. All of us grow out of our mother's body which is not something most guys think about and if women think about it... How do you think about it? But also, do you want to think about it? It's just really bizarre to think that we actually physically fall inside our mother's body. And then psychically as well. Our psyche, our sense of who we are

40:13 Actually, we don't have it when we're born even but we have a sense of existing. That's inseparable from the mother's body and the mother psyche. So this is The Big Mother thesis but before I do a seminar about that, I want to see if I can parallel it with part of the 16th Max thesis, which is to do with the prehistoric secret societies. Part of my thesis in 16th Max based on admittedly one book... I'm a bit gonzo Greg. I do wing it a lot because they're used by intuition a lot and so if i feel there's a missing piece or i know there's a missing piece and then just

40:52 seemingly chance gives me something and the piece fits, I'm like okay well let's put it in there and see if it makes it coherent. So this happened with Brian Hayden Basically, his descriptions of prehistoric secret societies sounded like early template for Hollywood because these shaman class are all to do with creating illusions to manipulate the masses using occult ritual theater drama violent enactments and so on as a way to hold sway maintain and increase their power in create society essentially. It was very tribal just

41:28 small communities and stuff, but they had these networks and they expanded their input. So how does this relate to disembodiment? Well if you think about watching a movie or any kind of performance that you're not involved in it is disembodying You're putting your attention away from your body but also away from reality. You're watching a simulation of reality, so that in itself is disembodied and it can be pleasantly so that's why we get addicted to these things is relaxing you can feel like you are involved experiencing life without being threatened without actually being involved, you know, you see

42:08 or attacked by any of these phenomena. You can just watch them passively, that's sort of the thin end of the weight of disembodiment and I don't know but this is speculative and this isn't really in 60 maps of hell but i would say that these secret societies and these methods have extended all through history to the present you know Facebook metaverse and all you know must madness have to do with hidden agendas of non-human beings, demons I'd say if we want to be Christian about it. And that creating a surrogate reality or false dream that we allow our attention to be captured by, that essentially vacates the body because our awareness isn't in the body and then this other intelligence which don't have to get into demonology if you don't want too but kind of have to call it something

43:00 because of course, AI is now more than on the horizon. It then moves in and occupies the space that's created. And congruent with that are the secret societies – the occult masters, the filmmakers, the Silicon Valley wizards and so on – because they're in cahoots or collusion with the demons like with Estreba who keeps telling you they're good guys…or it doesn't matter if they're good They then have control over the societies, individuals who are possessed by those entities to some degree. They're kind of bellwethers as Charles Ford said that they're not really as powerful as they think they are but that seems to be the arrangement that's going on throughout history that we're reaching some sort of dark culmination or

43:52 Now, I mean that is really interesting the idea that when our conscious attention is put outside of the body it creates a cavity for something else to spill in. I think that's a compelling ideas to why maybe they want us constantly scrolling the screens and engaged in movies like conceptually I get what you're saying but I would wanna see some validation, some evidence that that is true. I've watched films my whole life and i feel like there's nothing really harmful to me by setting myself aside for two hours and engaging in a film and narrative and hero's journey we could say and then getting back to regular life. I don't feel as though my body has been occupied by demons in that time period

44:50 I guess just let's go into it, because this gets into why Pasulka and Whitley Strieber maybe aren't all these...I mean, Whitley Strieber is like, these things penetrated my ass and I didn't like that. That's not good! He's not saying they're good. No but he's still advocating them. He's still saying it's the greatest experience a person can have to be raped by a female pro basically. You know? It's baked in there. Sure, he doesn't downplay the dark side but in a certain sense that's worse because he doesn't redeem him but he kind of justifies it and rationalizes it. He says that means justify an end? Yeah, he is saying they made him a better person. He definitely saying that you'll find that consistent throughout his life so he saying being raped was an electric catapult made him a bad person. You won't crunch it down to one sentence you have to do that, you know Where is the evidence for your thesis regarding

45:46 a cavity being created for some kind of other presence from the outside. I think seeing and not seeing is the most comprehensive, it's the least read in my book so i don't think that's why but might be why...I think it's the most comprehensive exploration of that but it's a bit of a Trojan horse. It could pass for just a book about movies and the guys relationship to movies but what it is essentially about and what it describes and it gets pretty dark and demonic by the end is that my identity was co-opted or the process of identity creation that occurs in the psyche and in the body between birth and about four, seven

46:29 was co-opted by Hollywood. Obviously not just Hollywood, obviously my parenting and the environment where alcohol parents all these other factors were massively important but Hollywood was sort of a good cop in that I got these adverse conditions that we're all born into even back then i'm saying it's worse now than it was them but it was very bad back then Those adverse conditions make it necessary, just as fairy tales in the past did for children to escape into fantasies that will relax us and relieve the tension and the pressure. So if those fantasies are created by corporations that are secretly backed by occult societies with occult knowledge who are secretly manipulated by and or manipulating demons then

47:18 One of these products, what's the actual aim of these products is to create an identity for us that has these handles and these levers by which we can be manipulated. By the culture, by the superculture, and by the satanic overlords I have to simplify at the end My main evidence my main body of evidence is me now okay? I'm just one guy but at least I know what I'm talking about you know, the scientific and the metaphysical. We could go into that I guess you have to specify like

47:55 I'd say, where's the evidence that these things aren't affecting you when you know they're affecting? It's funny. It's an age-old thing that people in Hollywood would say, oh no movies would never cause people to commit violence or consider reactionary this idea but it's complete double saying anybody who knows anything about movies or even who doesn't knows that movies influence us we wouldn't go to them if they didn't they inspire us, they shape us. They get inside of us we identify and so on they have a huge influence over us but somehow if that's ever bad then oh no it couldn't be right because we love them it's kind of fanaticism we want to defend like stockholm syndrome well I wouldn't say that movies don't influence us but that's different from

48:45 Taking our attention out of body and then letting something else come in that is demonic but throughout the book you talk about sentience and intelligence. That might be hard for humans to perceive we might notice a child perceiving something that we call imaginary friend for example you write about steiner's work on the arm on it forced too, When it comes to technology today, because we could say films are a technology and now it's digitized and we're going into internet-based technologies and metaverses. You use the term dream state hyphenated term which I really like because its like we talk about the state so much in that metaverse is like the dream state. It's you know a corporatised empire based dream reality

49:35 a digital reality i just like that term and at least that's how i took it but is there. A force an intelligence as sentience outside of the human mind you see shepherding us along this technological path with these digital biomedical industrial complex technologies is coming from human minds or is there something else out there that's really shepherd in this trajectory for us Well, Big Mother. Yeah I show my hand with Big Mother really as a say in the intro to now I have to come clean and say if hell exists and we're in it some sense even if you just said social health there has to be Satan. Hell without Satan is like well the metaverse without Zuckerberg right? You need The Great Architect

50:31 So, what is Satan? That's one of the questions that I addressed through Big Mother. And Big Mother is another name for Satan in drag like Norman Bates and Psycho. But the reason it took so long to get to Satan and essentially dedicated a whole book trying to map that entity or that force having met the effects previously is It's a placekeeper for very massive things, I mean second only to God. If you use the word God chances are any sentence that you put it in is going to…it's not been a whole water for very long. It's not going to be very coherent and there isn't much can be said about God as Babsai said about the Tao that isn't wrong somehow. There are many ways to be wrong but not so many ways to be right

51:25 and Satan is not on the same level either. But this brings me back to a point I didn't finish earlier about conflating the paranormal with the spiritual as Creighton and somehow even Strieber does, which is such a problem well, we'll get to why it's a problem. But the reason people do it is because the psychic slash paranormal is also transcending the physical and we're sort of off-the-map when we get into those realms so then we just kind of mash it all together but spiritual principles are eternal principles I'd say but psychic mean human beings and the lowest and worst kinds of human beings included

52:05 have access to psychic reality. We all dream and we all have psychic potential, I'd say as Oliver Shrupp's reading Jeffrey Kreipel will tell you. So that's more Satan's domain is the psychic. In a way for me the jury is still out on whether Satan is an independent entity that is controlling or infiltrating human beings or if he somehow is our creation I think it's kind of both. To me, absolute evil slash Satan is some principle in the universe that has objective reality yeah but

52:43 For it to become this meddling, demonic, malevolent cackling kind of evil entity I think that requires somehow us to animate it. So its kinda weird actually. It's almost like it wants to exist but needs us to exist but why would want if doesn't exist? You can go round and round on that one. I don't wanna get into a religious things that happens too much but i think the god satan paradigm is really just another bubble that was created by western society and if you look at indigenous communities around the world throughout time they do have trickster spirits. And i do think satan is like just the western version of a trickster spirit but you said earlier that the most important truths come from,

53:32 Personal experience which is limited but we look at the personal experience of all humans that live outside of our culture, we see a lot of the same stuff with near death experience. Where being within the landscape and realizing that there's consciousness permeating an intelligence in plants and all this kind of stuff and that this is symbiosis to the environment as a creator god and their trickster demon spirits with it but The indigenous of Papua New Guinea don't know what Satan is and they don't really care. That's a Western character I know the Native Americans have Wendigo which Paul Levy has written a book about Certainly there are plenty of cultures that have a placekeeper for evil Right, well that's why i say trickster spirits I mean tricksters kind of benign or at least potentially benign It seems to me Greg

54:30 If we identify something in society that really is as close to objectively evil as you can get, like this mRNA business and the lies around it let's say. And part of how you recognize it is it's anti-human and its anti life. It's just trying to destroy the human form, destroy the human soul, destroy consciousness. It's really malignant in this fashion somehow that has to have some source outside of human beings logically I'm not insisting as a strict but to be consistent with logic it says if something is anti life and anti-human can't really be sourced in human beings now?

55:09 I used to take the psychological model of trauma, but it's a bit like this thing about turtles. The universe rests on the back of turtle or what's the turtle resting on? Why is there so much trauma? You can't make trauma with your original cause of evil because what's the cause of the original trauma? It's a circular thing you need evil to create the trauma and you need trauma to... So there's something But I agree, yeah. We haven't understood it. I would say as a proviso that Christianity is worth considering at least and I do believe more or less believe that we are discovering more spiritually not collectively but individuals are discovering more about reality spiritually that Christ was an actual human being and that was actually a turning point in the whole human energy field. That was Steiner's view

56:08 So it's really considering that. I can't remember what my point was in reference to EGLE exactly, but just as a counterpoint that not all beliefs are equal. You can go back to ancient beliefs and cultures and say, well they all said that but I don't think we should throw out the Jesus baby with the bathwater just because yes Christians when they talk about Satan or even Jesus in my view they generally get it wrong. Somebody like Steiner was a Christian but not by name, not normally, he talked about Christ not in a way that Christians would like, but it was equivalent to a Christian viewpoint. As in Christ is the essential element we're not going to get anywhere without Christ. He's the way so that's Christian to my mind. But or and Stein had a Lucifer and he had an Ahriman so he had a double devil which to me works a lot better because you can see the qualities of Lucifer they're quite good actually really but they're bad if they're out of balance here there's too much of them

57:09 imagination for example, as simple as that. It's Lucifer apparently is that he gave us the gift of the imagination where you've got too much imagination and get totally dissociated from reality and end up thinking we need to create a metaverse or whatever else it is. Iron Man was much closer to Satan in terms being the principle of matter death and confinement restriction but they're in a certain sense complementary, and then Christ is the balancing point between the two. So although I can't unpack that for you here on this show today or maybe even if I had three hours, that's something to work with for me whereby Satan can be an entity or Iron Man can be an entity but it's not the way of Christians. It's not oversimplified. In fact it's really hard

57:57 get your head around. It should be really hard to understand Right. And sometimes conversations kind of devolve around defining terms that are highly loaded and people think of differently, and I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater either but my God is there a lot of fucking bath water? I feel like it's all bath water everywhere! My whole life is just full of this Christian bath water and I think that the reality of our situation has to be more universal and more discoverable by an individual engaged in the landscape rather than people who have found out about Jesus in the Bible. It has to be more accessible to everyone, not just Westerners who speak English or Latin or whatever Greek and have discovered this work. That is my issue with people who are so focused on Christianity. And it's just like

58:54 Well, what about all the other people outside of our cultural bubble? Their realizations are worthless and they're going to hell. I mean, I'm not saying you're saying that again it's the loaded terms Christianity means a lot of things to different people. I like Rudolf Steiner and there are avenues that are appealing in which i can get something out of that material but in terms of loaded terms let's talk about paranormal and spirituality because I think again that's one of those things where you put them in two different categories and i think of them as kind of having a very big overlap in their van diagram because i could have an experience with something that feels like a lady of white light.

59:38 And I might describe that on Monday as a paranormal experience and on Tuesday as a spiritual one. To me, they are interchangeable terms." Well but that's because you'd have to admit it's because you don't know. Sure! You don't know... Yeah well that's fair enough and that's the problem. So then I get to the problem so the problem is confusing the paranormal with the spiritual and yeah you can be fairly safe if you won't do that if you just make them interchangeable in this kind of humble way where I don't know was it paranormal or was it spiritual? but it was something. But people don't do that, they tend to like Pesulka with her book American Cosmic. She went right to this interpretation of the extraterrestrials as angels which is a casebook example of why you need to factor demons in if you're going into religious thinking or metaphysics. You've got to have both sides

1:00:30 Because demons traditionally can trick us into thinking that they're angels. And to keep it simple and on this subject, We could say, again to keep it simple that angels have to do with spiritual principles that have retained their relationship to objective reality and eternal reality. This is the key we can get to what's objective reality whereas demons are these fallen principles which are now just having dominion over the psychic realms. So yeah Sure, they can simulate spiritual experiences by manipulating paranormal forces. But that's absolutely why it is so essential for us to learn to discern starting from the awareness that there is an objective difference even if we can't discern it but let's segue... I don't know if you want to get into the dream saying transgender but we can but as a specific example what I wanted to segue into which is objective reality like does this exist because

1:01:32 To me, Christianity has become more powerfully necessary in our world. I'm not saying that anybody necessarily should convert but at least as a reminder and countermeasure. Now i think it's the controlled opposition frankly people like Jordan Peasome Well, there you go. I'm agreeing with you there! Right but my point is that what's the alternative to Christianity? Is post-modernism woke transgender madness which is occultism in disguise transhumanist? Not necessarily. There are many different paradigms and many different ways to look at it. I know that fills the void for Western culture

1:02:15 But there may be different routes to reality, but there's only one objective reality. That's the point I want to make. Objective reality we obviously have to admit that we can't subjectively confirm that's it. We have to, as an individual, I feel like you have to. But if you're not going to get lost one has to remember and remind oneself that there is such a thing as objective reality. Yeah! the woke thing as a giant op and also see Catholicism, Christianity, the Bible as an op from a previous age running on fumes. I mean i entertain those people with my sub-steps and you know i'm straddling in the first grade because i really want to include all i'm sorry jesus like i want to be able to

1:03:08 create a spectrum or address the spectrum where yeah, there's people come to subset who they just get triggered by anything Abrahamic. They just think it's all a psyop and then this hardcore Christians one who emails me every week drives me nuts I know these Eastern Orthodox Christians like psyops cinema guys who i really like and respect. And I respect their decision to be Eastern Orthodox as well so I understand where you're coming from and I would say yes rationally it's credible. You have to have your experience of Jesus, right? And just say well okay maybe that was paranormal trick of demons or maybe it's the real thing. The point is that just as a placekeeper God objects in reality as the first principle and Jesus

1:04:01 manifest the incarnation, the image of God as a human being. To me they're absolutely essential and completely lost without those two. It doesn't matter if you call them God and Christ but there is this idea that there is an eternal principle of goodness and that man in its image is absolutely indispensable Fair enough to each their own i'm really glad we did this i enjoyed big mother a lot i enjoy talking to you a lot i also am not super attached to. Some of my ideas i mean i think that's kinda fun that even when we disagree we can talk pretty emotionally and unattached,

1:04:38 About our ideas and it makes for a good conversation so i'm glad we finally did it should have done earlier hope we do it more often, i mean i gotta fill all the shell spaces with more credible researchers so clear them in need to have you back. But before we go tell people the best place to get your work website the sub stack all that good stuff is really on substack now I mean, as you say, I like direct contacts. If you want to email me at jasonwithaew at protonmail.com if anything has sparked something in them I like one-to-one contacts. But otherwise, yeah, basically all my time and energy on the internet now is at childrenofjoke.substack.com and there I'm writing an essay every week and doing Job Casts every week. It's half free and then roughly the other half is behind a payroll

1:05:35 I've been moving around, as you said Greg various subjects. I've been addressing the JQ, the Jewish question and the Holocaust for a while which is about as risky as it can get but did seem that time was right and looking at the Book of Job in the Old Testament a lot. And then recently I've gone back to examining Hollywood movies so I never really know what I'll be writing about a few weeks from now but does seem to be a fairly consistent theme continue to emerge and i found sub stack to be actually close to home really there's a kind of feeling of community and it's nice to get paid finally as a writer. I agree, I think substack has opened up the whole world for people and it's a beautiful thing to see well

1:06:22 This has been great. Once again, I do think there's a through line in your work that I really appreciate the Hollywood underbelly stuff you uncovered a lot of things that I didn't know and we didn't have time to talk about big mother heady stuff but a lot of great concepts there too it's been enjoyable take care out there thanks again and i appreciate your working time well thanks Greg I guess till next time Okay, now I don't want to get too excited but this feels like it could be the start of something special. Jason Horsley

1:06:58 A very unique and thoughtful guy who has a lot of good work out there. Obviously we will see how the people feel about it, but he's a good conspiracy researcher who is very thorough and I find him to be a really enjoyable read with lots of good quotes that I can pull out. I know the downside for someone who has a lot of work out there is doing a first interview with me. I tend to overdo it and try to pull material from many different places trying to get an overview of a person Though I know in this case any one of his books could provide a very solid interview. And the trait he shares with other autists, i know is that he's very blunt and I appreciate bluntness alot because im not exactly wired that way

1:07:41 I can see myself as someone who tries to find common ground and smooth out differences and yet i choose to interview such diverse and strongly opinionated people. And i think that might be part of what makes it fun when you can tell that im not comfortable in those moments Either way, I appreciate Jason not mincing words when he talks about who he's skeptical of and I don't have to agree to be entertained by it. He said he wasn't sure about me either which I half expected. I have voiced many times my frustration with my own listeners' tendency to overly paranoid and skeptical of me

1:08:20 I've gotten hundreds of emails over the years from people who have cancelled Plus or stopped listening over a single guest, or because they don't like the orientation of the pentagram and one of the logos an artist made for me. I don't draw! What do you want me to do about it? Or maybe they got obsessed with that Tracy Twyman thing...I actually had threats over that and was told I wouldn't be safe and all sorts of crazy stuff And I guess, I could have asked the artist to redo the logo and not invert the pentagram. But...I used images to hint at what this show's content is about. Conspiracy, high strangeness and The Occult! So yeah there is a pentagram in some of the logos. Regardless of its orientation it's a theme of the show subject matter It's not a hidden code that I'm trying to corrupt you

1:09:11 But this is just to say that I know that sometimes people who are conspiracy-oriented in their mindset can be very quick to think they've got a person figured out because they saw this one thing. Or they think they have exposed a person like me over a detail so small, I didn't even notice and i think Jason is wading into that territory with his characterization of Dr. Kripal and Diana Pasulka and Whitley Strieber Because I think they're just regular well-intentioned folks trying to figure out the weird. Either through investigation or experience, and i don't see any of them trying to steer the conversation any which way necessarily But you know, I'll hear Jason out and let him say what he wants to say It's not that these folks or myself should be without criticism but it can sometimes get too overly

1:10:05 Analytical and sometimes things people say as they're trying to find their way are taken as something they were told to say by the nefarious network they're some kind of agent in. Obviously there are shills, and there are disinformation people that muddy our conspiratorial waters I just think maybe Jason lumps in too many people And it's also possible that I'm just naive. I've been called that too But overall, I really liked it. I thought we had a good dynamic and his work is really interesting Big Mother is his newest but its not exactly my favorite Obviously we had to make some room for it but I think we'd be way more aligned talking about all of his other work The through line is mass manipulation through media and emerging technologies that alter the culture And in that continuum It all kind of works

1:11:03 I know with interviews i'm not the best at going off script or defending my own life choices but, i had to do a bit of both here today. And so i want to highlight a few things that were on my outline that... ...i had end up cutting because we debated Christianity and psychedelics and chills it happens but i was gonna ask him more about language at one point he uses the phrase possessed by language and this is kind of a quote that gets into that. He says the goal of the technology of evil is to capture the human soul by making human beings subject to mathematical treatment Language, written and spoken word is the means to this end It is the bridge between human consciousness and the mathematical formula of machines While consciousness is quantifiable words as shown in gematria And even the simplest spy codes can be translated into numbers and thereby turned into quanta

1:12:02 This makes language, and by extension human beings possessed by language the inevitable ingress of the technological or arimonic mind into the organic realms. Turning human beings into text code that can be used to generate pseudo-reality is the apotheosis –the making manifest–of the cybernetic method and the technological goal It's a technique taken to highest and deepest levels of human existence The so called Internet of Bodies Compare this to children being traumatized through extreme acts of violence and sexual abuse incepted with specific word combinations as a means to program them, or cause disassociative identity disorder. And then create artificial personalities through the appliance of specific techniques and it would appear that this ultra-modern technocracy depends on the most ancient principles to maintain itself

1:12:57 To call this principle Satanism, sorcery or even the more neutral magic term is to attempt to use words to understand a system that has used words against us since language began. To ensure we never ever escape its influence The conspiracy that can be named is not the true conspiracy We all know of people like Jordan Maxwell and language and codes and spelling If it really goes back that far and that is a huge building block of the giant conspiracy, well then how can we communicate it using its own tools? Maybe it's like using digital recording platforms to create a podcast shared on social media that warns against the technocracy. But I thought that was a really great couple paragraphs And I do like this section on counter-narratives that I pulled from his sub stack

1:13:53 where he talks about how conspiracy-minded people do tend to fall into counter narratives fairly easily, and this one is regarding the good Nazi inversion. He says the good Nazi inversion similarly is a childish attempt to counteract the lies of history by inventing or buying into a counter version of truth, one every bit as fantastical but even more simplistic A comic book fable to replace the far more sophisticated myth that has been generationally spun around us. I think that's interesting and i might want to dig deeper into that with them but yeah so often, like oh we're told this so the truth must be the exact opposite 180 mirror image of that and thats often not true usually the truth is like

1:14:46 Hidden within a manipulative narrative but not necessarily a flip a complete 180. I tend to agree with him when he says that is kinda simplistic thinking and already know the two or three plus members are really gonna let me have it in the comments and reeducate me again if you really listen to the words he's using there he says that The good Nazi narrative is an inversion that is every bit as fantastical as the official story. So, the official story is fantastical too! But lastly I was gonna mention this part about Heath Ledger from his Hollywood work There was definitely something weird about him playing The Joker and then having this huge psychological crisis and death but here's a quote

1:15:37 He says officially Ledger's death was ruled an accident. He died from the combined effects of medications used to treat anxiety disorders and panic attacks by decreasing abnormal excitement in the brain, Valium, Xanax, and Restyral a sleep aid The toxicology analysis stated, definitively the manner of death is accident resulting from the abuse of prescribed medications. Ledger's body was found by Diana Wolosin described as his masseuse hmm Wolosin arrived at Ledger's Soho apartment in New York about 2.45 to give him a massage and found his bedroom door closed At 3pm she called his cell phone receiving no answer, entered the room and saw him in bed She assumed he was sleeping and set up her massage table When she found him cold to the touch rather than call 911 She made three phone calls to actress Mary-Kate Olsen A friend of Ledger

1:16:36 Olsen didn't call 911 either, but instead called her security guard and sent him over to the apartment. Sometime later, Wolosin called 911. According to The New York Times police found no Diana Wolosin listed in the state database of licensed massage therapists and made the point that it is a felony to practice massage without a license in New York kind of a silly law but a law nonetheless People Magazine reported that Olsen and Ledger were hooking up, but neither were particularly interested in making it exclusive. They had a bond that was based on partying and they had the same tastes in partying due to Olsens strange behavior She was called for questioning and eventually agreed to speak but only on the condition of immunity probably concerned about being charged for possession and use and sharing of drugs

1:17:30 Well, a lot of people who looked into this death know about the Mary-Kate Olsen connection but I just find some of those details odd that not one but two people find a dead celebrity body and don't call 911. It's like they have a secret network of people they should call in this situation She called her security guard Every time something that even sounds halfway like this comes up I think about Kanye West and the Harley Pasternak thing This guy who's a personal trainer who was trained in the Canadian MKUltra arts, Who told Kanye he would send him back to the psych ward implying that he did it the first time if He didn't get in line. This kind of sounds like that any one of us who finds a dead body would immediately call 911 but no If you're in this network You call the connected people and then you figure out how you're gonna

1:18:26 create the narrative that makes it to the airwaves. Just odd, just another little thing Jason picked up on that I wanted to make sure I read out to you in the wrap-up because otherwise it just dies with my outline So yeah there's just so much good material from Jason that we could have talked about and hopefully will talk about but I hope if we do this again We do focus on a single book but for the first time we had to feel each other out of bit I guess I imagine you guys would be more engaged by keeping a tighter focus on one subject for longer with Jason specifically. But if you agree, let me know at the trusty old ratings system and speaking of the rating system my last show with Robert Frederick about bacon and Shakespeare has clocked in at 4.7 very respectable not madded it all but i did get plenty of comments from people who either were not interested in the topic or

1:19:22 People who have such strong feelings about it that they didn't like Robert's conclusions. They think Shakespeare was Edward De Vere or just couldn't have been Bacon, so they didn't like it That's fine We tried this is a subject where people who have done their own research tend to think the documentaries they've seen and books they've read made A good case and they stick with it I'm not really vested in the Shakespeare authorship question myself, but a 4.7 rating is good enough and i'm curious about this one...I would expect it to be more popular than the last one but its hard to reflect a score much higher than a 4.7 Really good though and for free feed listeners The Free Plus show for July was an old one with Harold Kautzwella And the whole Black Goo thing from 2015?

1:20:15 And just listening to myself in that one reminded me of how much better I've gotten or at least how much more comfortable i've gotten. But if you enjoyed the peek into what full plus shows are like, join the club! It's better for you and it's better for me Today is a great day to do it too because the recent shows have all been pretty popular and today's second hour with Jason got into stuff like The Prospect Of Christianity as a Psy-Up as well as other religions The sales pitch society gives of fixing internal states of suffering with external pseudo-solutions. We talked about what this life is, transhumanism and all that sort of stuff the notion that narratives imprison us comparing and contrasting our psychedelic experiences and their usefulness

1:21:03 And then I went forward and asked Jason about the premise that the system wants us to be autistic because that's a more compatible orientation for pushing us into a transhumanistic, emotionally stunted transactional lifestyle. And he had plenty of interesting thoughts on that as he is very open about his own autism. We also talked about his proximity to true enlightenment or the truly enlightened fun stuff To start getting the full two hour interviews just click the link at the top of the show notes or go to TheHigherSideChats.com and take advantage of a seven day free trial, or join the Patreon where you can get THC Plus on Spotify if your into that. Plus does work on most of the podcasting apps and we have a bunch of tutorials in the help page to assist you

1:21:52 You can also find video clips of both the free and plus show on the YouTube channel, Twitter Instagram TikTok all that stuff. And big thanks to the team who handles that for me because I'm not really much of a social media guy myself all the posts you see on social media are my own except for those clips it's just too much and it shouldn't even matter much but I do see them sometimes posting things I don't agree with or i think sound really cheesy like there was a clip from the show. With michelle gibson we talked about refrigeration being such a big part of the budweiser empire and the post they wrote said something about but why is there is known for more than just good beer, no lot of comments could be here i don't think that's good bear now i don't either

1:22:44 And sometimes they try to say something very innocuous sounding and it ends up being like, kind of cringe. But that is the cost of delegating so I don't have to be online as much. Small price to pay, I say but i really did enjoy this one. I've been excited about seeing the response moreso than usual. I hope he's willing to do it again and you will be willing to listen if we do but we will see As for the meetup calendar, the next events on deck. A Bellingham Washington Meet-Up at Twin Sisters Brewing on August 11th. A San Angelo Texas Meet Up at So Called Tap House on August 16th. August 19th Gall Braiths Alehouse in Auckland New Zealand. August 20th Asheville North Carolina White Labs Brewing

1:23:36 August 21st, Pasadena California at Corner Bakery Cafe and August 28th Black Rock City Washington State I think? It's unclear but it's at the Vomiting Sparrows. Interesting name for a business And if any of that sounds appealing to you go to HiresideMeetups.com To get the full details and RSVP or make your own event! Its free...and it might even be fun Of course, Astro Gnosis 3 is like next weekend. I hope some of you come out there too Wheaton Illinois But with that i'm out big thanks again to Jason I've done my part your move culture creators reality tunnel tour guides and Hollywood freaks Your fucking move You can try your best but you won't succeed in the transhumanistic future we see

1:24:35 We'll keep you wired so you can't sleep. Tech is a curve It's just one chip behind your... And some parts below that we can replace Chris leaves no time to wait and lists the lights inside Forever connect To fix you Your computational words grow You run endless loops of cat videos

1:25:49 The offense will soar and cash will increase your worth. Lights in the dark and the lawn dries to fix you. The people that first get it should have a massive advantage over people that don't have it yet Well, I mean its the kind of thing where your productivity would improve dramatically maybe by a factor of ten with it So... You could definitely just take out a loan and do it with money back real fast Yeah Super smart

1:26:45 When do you think YOU'RE gonna die? How long will you wait?