Jason Quitt | The Atlantis Myth, Cosmic Cycles, & Astral Abductions

00:00 Well, here goes nothing with another new episode of THC. Truly independent of any outside sponsors networks agents or conflicts of interest of any kind I've got no strings on me as always the first hour is free in the full two-hour show is for plus members and can you believe it right now? You can get a seven day free trial at THC Plus and it doesn't even require you to put in a credit card Just grab the link from the show notes or that QR code if you're watching on YouTube It'll take you to the higher side chats calm put in only your email address and I'll send you a username and password to access the full archive of extended interviews and bonus shows going back to 2010. You can hear more about it after the show, there's other details and all that stuff lots of wild taboo material to be dug up in there don't say I didn't warn ya enjoy

00:50 Well, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood people. From The Sunshine State I'm Greg Carlwood and it seems that no matter how hard we try or how deep we seek We are destined to continue on wrestling with the unsolvable enigmas of what we are and what this life is even supposed To be about. We can acquire clues collect meaningful experiences And absorb insights from those wiser than ourselves But the game seems well designed always keep you guessing On top having to deal with those forces intentionally pulling us away from it Many of the mystics, shamans and spiritually evolved come to see our physical bodies in the seemingly solid reality we fixate on to be one of the least important aspects of unpacking it all which is a real mindfuck for many who know nothing else. But from many corners of this island earth we get the general concept of reality as a pressure cooker for spiritual evolution and initiation

01:39 continuum of cosmic cycles of death and rebirth, creation and destruction, of breathing in and breathing out through which we somehow are supposed to grow. And yet the most popular models of modern Western society don't contain this at all! There is no emphasis on spirit or purpose and almost no hope for many of us to engage with the true point without even the faintest idea of instruction It seems that what was once an embedded initiatory experience we would arrive at naturally is now overwhelmed with career ambitions, financial obligations, endless entertainment and pleasures of the flesh. But luckily we have people like today's guest Jason Quitt urging us not to give up and picking up the slack for the entire infrastructure of our times!

02:20 If you don't know, Jason has not only been an entity experiencer from an early age but he's also been studying various modalities and spiritual practices with teachers from around the world for years. He graduated from the Institute of Energy Wellness in 2005 and became a student of Algonquin Shamanism From his out-of-body experiences, Jason has received information on numerous energetic systems of healing and spiritual development. He published these methods in his books Egyptian Postures Of Power Ancient Qigong System and The Yusuf Code Sacred Geometry Mandalas Of Meditation. He's been here once before in 2023 And in the years since he released several other great books like The Shining Island Procession Axis Mundi and Plato's Celestial Allegory

03:03 and astral experiences journeys into the heart of the phenomenon, as well as Auralight 23 Canadian Crystal Guidebook. You can find all things Jason at TheCrystalSun.com and I'm looking forward to talking to him about this stuff and more! The Astral Projection Advocate, Qigong Guru & Shining Island Educator, Jason welcome back Thank you for having me and that's quite an intro, thank you. I try! And it is a pleasure. I hear a lot of great interviews with you. I consider you kind of an enigma very interesting guy and i figured we'll of course talk about the two main works you've put out since our last interview The Shining Island and Astral Experiences but to start with The Shining Island here

03:49 It's quite interesting because I've had endless conversations about Atlantis and i like the Edgar Cayce, atlantis interviews of done a few other ones everyone is always looking for where lances. But so many people think the story is just about a literal city that because of its hubris ended up destroying itself but when you go back to the original references im now learning there's a buncha contacts that Actually leads one to believe that maybe it's not just about that. Yes and that's the whole thing is we have to kind of separate these stories into categories because a lot of the atlantis that we hear of today in noah today in popular culture, is kind of a mix of the story comes from play though he got it from critters who got it from his grandfather who got it from so long ago from the egyptian priests

04:46 And then you come for the last couple hundred years and there's a bunch of people like Casey like you spoke about, and channeled material. A lot of esoteric material past life material that kind of paints this kind of picture of Atlantis and many of us have even had past life experiences personally have a place they consider atlantis or told is atlantis so we have all these multi dimensional levels to the story of Atlantis so it paints us this kind of picture of this advanced civilization and you know when you talk to people about lances today they're thinking like high technology flying saucers like. Ancient gods on the earth but when u go back to the actual story that the actual source where this came from can use her to read its a very different story

05:41 You know, so there's a lot of different people out there that take the information and say this is an absolute true story. Let's go find Atlantis where is it? Well you know Plato tells you exactly where it is like literally It is right there in the Atlantic Ocean doesn't get more obvious than that from his writings So they tell you exactly where it is but we can't find it We can't find it. They actually say it's bigger than if you combine Libya and Asia together, and in the ancient world that's a pretty massive landmass. It's like a continent. You're talking about a continent-sized island that's in between the old world and the new world. And we can see from ocean surveys, you can see from satellite images

06:36 you can see from studying the islands of the geological history of the Earth. And if we take it for the word of the Egyptian priest in Solon, that this island or continent basically fell under the waves about 11,000 plus years ago then that would be a pretty obvious thing to see and experience today And this is why it's very confusing and this is why everybody is still searching for Atlantis. There are a ton of authors out there, a ton of researchers who will find it off the coast of Spain or the Azores or you know, the Sahara Desert like... Yeah I like that one! Yeah so there are all these places where we can put a pin in the map and say this is where I believe it is

07:34 But again, there's still the mystery because no one has actually solved this puzzle. I think that Plato is an absolute genius in this because he knew how to write this kind of mythology. This likely story that gets people like us even today continues to get people to talk and speculate about his stories. So whatever he did back then in his writings shows is genius cuz we're still discussing it right now. Right well said and when you go back to the tomato yes i think something that blew my mind getting into this was like the preface quote there's a quote in the very beginning, that is pretty specific tells u kind of what this is about and have never heard anyone bring that up before can talk with us about that okay so the whole story has to do with soul on who is real person

08:33 He's a documented real person. He travels to Egypt, there is some documentation of this so we know that this is historical that he went there but we don't know if the story Plato was presenting was actually true from Solon. So I'll just preface with that because this could be all made up by Plato and nobody really knows. When Solon goes to the priest, and the priest starts to tell Solon about the story of Atlantis. He first prefaces the story of Atlantis right before he says anything about Atlantis. He says to him, for what it is told you in parts

09:17 that once Phaeton, son of Helios yoked his father's chariot and through his not being able to drive it along his father's path burned up what was on the earth and himself perished when he was struck by a thunderbolt. And then he says this has the figure of a story But the truth is a shifting of the bodies that move around the earth and along the heavens, and the destruction that comes about the earth by great deal of fire at long stretches of time. Now, there's many different translations I think this one is actually more intricate i would say that really drives it home and says there has been and will be again many destructions in mankind arising from many causes the greatest have been brought about by the agencies a fire and water

10:10 Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth and a great conflagration of things upon the earth which recurs after long intervals. I think this is like really important because before he's even telling Solon the story of Atlantis, he's saying remember the stories of your gods Okay, you remember the time when Phaeton stole the chariot of the sun. He doesn't know how to drive it he crashes into the earth and causes this huge destruction by fire but I want to tell you that myth is just kind of like a story that you tell your people but it really has to do with the movements of the stars and planets in the heavens And these destructions happen after long intervals of time

11:08 It happens with fire, and it happens with water. And then he tells the story of Atlantis which is the exact same story as the destruction of the Earth from Phaeton but instead of fire now he's telling this story about water. You know, Atlantis gets taken by water so he tells you right before he starts his story Right right and i think there's even a couple other quotes where they do mention you know an ideal society where hubris has gotten hold of them and causes their own destruction but it's related its, it's preface by celestial movements in the sky and so many people talking about cyclical cataclysm now and they're so many interesting things.

11:57 Suggesting that the elite know that we're in this cycle and they're trying to keep us from knowing and that's the real reason they are building bunkers. And, That is the real reason the CIA took that Adam & Eve book and censored it It seems like a big secret some think is that they don't want us to know about these cyclical cataclysms because they want everyone just going to work on all of this stuff But what I think is interesting is like The real story of Atlantis is saying What happens first is the stars move into this position and then there isn't a domino effect where man's actions. They could look like from a certain perspective if you are not ignoring the preface in the sky it could look like it just hubris getting in the way and downfall civilization but always happens when the sky clock strikes twelve in a certain sense

12:50 Exactly. He puts this point in his writings over and over again, and you see it in other writings and in The Republic. You see him talking about how astronomy and philosophy are the two most important things, and this is why kings should be philosophers and astronomers. And he gives us really interesting analogy in The Republic. I'm trying to remember exactly where but basically the story about the ship of state where you have A mutinous crew for example anything that it's like everybody in the crew wants to steer the ship.

13:29 He says, but only the person that knows how to steer the ship knows how to see the stars and get from point A to point B. So he says they try to get rid of the only person on board that knows how to read the stars and guide the ship –and that's the hubris! That's the chaos that will lead to their destruction is once they take that wheel, they don't know where to steer So he gives all these analogies in this, and it's the same analogy over and over again that you see in his older work. And then also in the Atlantis narrative with the hubris. What's really interesting about this story is nobody talks about Timaeus or The Timaeus which is the only complete book that survived that gives you the first glimpse of Atlantis

14:26 And basically, these dialogues that's what they are. It's basically Plato writing about a dialogue between Timaeus, Critias, Hermocrates who are speaking in front of Socrates talking about all different types of philosophies and Timaeus he is kind of like the top of the top of his game so during this setup before Timaeus speaks they're just kind of talking between each other. Critias is there, Hermocrates is there and they're talking about a night before the talk where Critias was sharing the story of Atlantis just at his home and they say okay well give the introduction Critias to Socrates so Critias then tells about Atlantis which is where we first hear about Atlantis in the time mass

15:26 And then he goes, okay stop talking. Let's now go to Timaeus and you could talk after Timaeus So then Timaeus speaks and if you look at the volume of work for example let's just say for example Timaeus equals 100 pages of writing To document what Timaeus says Critias speaks for like, let's say one or two pages of that hundred pages. And then when you get to the Critias which is the next volume of The Dialogues it's like maybe 20 pages out of a 100 pages and then it cuts out right when the gods convene and Zeus is trying to figure out what to do about these rebellious people on earth so the Critias ends

16:21 I don't even want to say halfway through. It ends probably a quarter of the way through the Atlantis story, so it's like a cliffhanger. We don't understand the full story. We don't have the full story. Plato never writes the full story and it's this kind of literary joke because in the beginning of the Timaeus, Critias is saying that Even Solon wanted to write the Atlantis story, but he never did. He only started to write a little of it and stopped and if you would have written the story... And this is right from the Timaeus. It says if Solon actually did write The Atlantis Story then his story of Atlantis would rival Homer in the Odyssey and all these things that he would be known as like the greatest poet if he would have just wrote The Atlantis Story

17:16 And then Plato writes the Atlanta story and he cuts it off at the beginning. Very meta, right? I love that and another thing There's so many conversations going on in the conspiracy world about our cons and the demiurge and noticism. And i never hear the demiurge talked about in the context of the tomato or play dough at all but this might have been one of the first references are the oldest references we have to the demiurge it's one of the earliest And it's a very interesting demiurge because it's not like a negative demiurge, it's like a benevolent demiurge. It's like the demiurge is basically creating the reality for us and he describes the creation from the demiurge in the Timaeus like a couple paragraphs after The Atlantis story. Okay so this is how Timaeus starts his dialogue as trying to explain

18:20 the structure of the universe, structure of creation. Who are we? And he says there's the demiurge and he creates this thing called The World Soul and he describes it well firstly describes creation itself in the gods themselves as circles within circles. Then he even goes further as into dividing those circles so if you basically says that it is basically eight circles and the inner seven circles then divide themselves even more. So when you're mapping that out, it's kind of also like the first reference of the platonic planetary systems where you have the world soul, you have the planets and the sun and the moon which basically revolve around the earth so earth is central

19:17 So it revolves in these circular patterns around the Earth, and then you have the fixed stars which revolve also but in their own speed. And he talks about this very concisely in The Creation so he very much knows the structure of the universe from their perspective at that time and When you take that structure of the universe, of the world soul, of how the gods are built. The circles within circles and then you go to the Critias and he talks about the architecture of Atlantis it lines up almost exactly the same as the design of the world's soul. And first of all going back to this whole Gnostic thing in Demiurge and ideas evolve

20:16 And we see this through many cultures, and back then I don't know exactly their thinking because they have to take mystical esoteric knowledge and put it in their own language. And then for me studying this stuff it's kind of like broken telephone so everything is a map of consciousness And this is what we're all trying to do, is try to find the easiest map to explain what this reality is and how to jump from one point to the other. That's all this is – all these religious ideas and theologies – it's just trying to figure out this map of consciousness. Today, we're still talking about these subjects but now we call them simulation theory

21:06 quantum mechanics, strength theory. We're trying to map the structure of reality and in the future we'll have different names for it." But back then it was very interesting because for them they were very influenced also with Pythagorean mathematics and ratios and the music and the harmonies or the spheres and everything had these perfect ratios even in the Timaeus himself He's talking about these ratios, he's talking about these harmonics as the structure of the universe. So basically they're taking the knowledge of time and kind of wrapping it into their theologies to try to explain how creation is. And this is exactly what the Timaeus was trying to speak about in his dialogue

22:03 It's kind of like a timestamp of where their understanding of nature and reality was. So I implore everybody that is interested in Atlantis, to read the time is because you can in my mind you can't separate the two things. Yeah yeah i probably should have read it a long time ago before i had all these conversations but, no right on the back of the book you have the image that shows the concentric rings and so often people try to make depictions of city now atlantis that looks like this but this is what's

22:39 You know supposed to be going on in the cosmos that's what they're talking about and you know when you add the context of conversations about the demi urge in the creation of reality in the world so, of course it's about more than one physical specific city. So all that contacts just gets lost but I also wanted to have you talk about the companion text, the Critias a little bit because this is the one that does detail how the rings were made or and it again its allegory it seems but this is the one that talks more about the structure of this mythical city. And what I have thought was really interesting is just how it also maps like there's a little bit of rhyming with the Egyptian story of The Mound Of Creation there are these

23:27 Specific things like twins and again the age old story of a god falling in love with the human woman these things are in there too which also. Totally gets missed most of the time right i think it came on your show couple years ago when, i think it was the astral genesis i'm not entirely sure if you is astral genesis or gates to the anunnaki don't remember which one. Astrogenesis and little bit about gypsum postures of power okay Well, the whole thing with Astral Genesis was I was trying to figure out these ancient myths starting with like the pyramid texts and going through the basic theology of Ancient Egyptian culture.

24:15 And so I started to see these kind of archetypes or archetypal stories between the gods. And then as like, I evolved my research into let's say the Sumerian texts and Babylonian or Akkadian basically, I saw that there was this kind of borrowing where you have very similar motifs Almost identical motifs are archetypes they just kind of shift and change slightly with names and gods and things like this what you see. Going all the way up into the greco roman period as well like no you take the old god's new merge them with your god so that, do you have a functioning society when u take over lands and stuff but when i start to look at these myths am i go out kb is myths

25:03 are very deep, but there's a cosmological aspect to it. These gods represent the seasons they represent the planets the stars and in Egypt it is very literal when it talks about this where everybody knows that God Osiris is Orion. It says it directly in the texts all right? So you have these characters who represent different star systems, different seasons, different natural elements like the waters, the fire, the desert. And then we get into Plato's writing so you have to understand it's like I'm coming from that. I'm coming from the old mythologies and archetypes of these stories

25:51 And then I open up Timaeus again in the Critias and I'm reading it, and it's like okay the story of Atlantis starts where Zeus basically divides up creation. He goes to his brother basically and says Poseidon I am giving you this island. Poseidon is the god of the seas On this island, and there's two translations of this. It says a low mountain or hillock. So these are the different translations so on this hillock directly in the center of this island there lived an earthborn parents and earthborn daughter And when the parents died and they leave the daughter Poseidon basically falls in love with her

26:42 and to protect her, he creates these rings around her low mountain or hillock of water. So 2 of land 3 of water. And this proportion two and three is very important because Timaeus keeps going back… If you go to the Timaeus, the ratio 2 and 3 a lot. It's a very special ratio that has to do with Pythagorean harmonics, okay? So he divides this and then he comes down and mates with her so you have this story again of these gods coming down to Earth on the mound, Central Hill mating with them and producing demigods

27:36 So this is a very typical archetypal story that Plato is painting, very typical. And they have twins—five sets of twins—so that equals ten. And so you have this kind of divine harmony of Atlantis. Each of the 10 kings is given their portion of the land, and everything's in absolute harmony. The central mound—the central mountain they give to the firstborn son, and they name him Atlas. Remember, everything is mythical

28:13 Alright so Atlas is very important and this is where you get the name Atlantis from atlas it is where you get where Atlantis is in the Atlantic Ocean because they named the ocean after Atlas. And what's interesting as Atlas, the name Atlas comes from the Titan And what Atlas does is he's cursed to basically be the axis Monday of creation, of the cosmos. He stands at the center and he holds up the heavens and his job is to make sure that there's a separation and that the heavens turn. Alright? So he's the axis Monday

28:59 So already this story, I'm like okay so you have the central mound. You have Atlas who's the axis Monday who controls the central mound they create a temple on the mound and in the center of that temple they put the ori chalcom pillar okay? This is a very important thing that has all the laws from Poseidon what Atlantis and The World Order should be Now, the word Ori Chalcum itself means bronze mountain. All right? Ori Chalcum—mountain bronze and this is a very ancient archetype again. So what is an obelisk? What is a pillar? Again it symbolizes the axis mundi. It symbolizes the holding up of heaven with the pillar just like the Jed Pillar is the spine of Osiris that holds up the heavens

30:05 And this pillar is the color of red. It's like a goldish red, it's a godly metal and it's kind of like a reddish bronze. It glows red and it represents the setting sun all right? So you have this kind of again there's Western archetype, this Western symbolism in the center of Atlantis. I'll come back to why it's so important this Western symbolism but You have these twins, you have the mound. You have the demigod or sorry, the God creating demigods through birth with a natural human woman. So these stories existed during this time is not like Plato made these stories up. You had religious texts of that time specifically talking about the gods that came down. You have the Nephilim

31:08 When you go further back in time to Babylonian, Akkadian, Sumerian, you have the epic of Galgamesh. Which he is the demigod that came after the flood who talks about the ten or eight kings prior to the flood. So you have this same story over and over again it's following the exact same tradition just in the literal garb of Hellenistic language and philosophy. But then he says, okay well it all came from the Egyptian priests you know from Solon from the Egyptian priests and he received that knowledge at the temple of Neith. Right? And that's important because Neith is... Neith is the weaver of the cosmos! Yeah, It's right there like all this stuff is always missing

32:10 The story of Atlantis is just so crazy. Right, so I'm the guy who's the crazy guy all right? I'm the guy who's like really interested in out-of-body experiences and the phenomena and all this stuff... And because of that craziness i wanted to go back in time and see what ancient cultures had to say about the afterlife, and all these things. That's how I got into these Egyptian texts because all I wanted to know is how did the Egyptians see the afterlife? And after going through the source text it brought me more to the conclusion that they were talking about cycles in the stars than anything else which is weird because that's not what I wanted to find!

32:58 I wanted to find the secrets of outer body experiences, the secrets of initiation and all these things. And it brought me more to the understanding of cycles in cosmos. It's through their allegories of the gods which is very interesting that in the Timaeus, the Egyptian priest basically tells So long that this is a myth that hides or conceals the great turning of the cosmos that the declination of the bodies have haven't you know so they tell me you they tell you. Yeah just so crazy no separated by centuries like this seems to have been the most important story to tell through many different ages

33:47 It's just kind of baffling. And again, it is a flood myth and we have all these different flood myths now the literates like the person that wants to say that this is 100% real I will agree with you just like the priest agrees because he even says there has been many floods many destructions that have completely wiped out your civilization our civilization. And they say that the survivors of those civilizations that have totally decimated, which is a very few number of survivors, they would seek shelter at the top of mountains and they would live many many generations forgetting the past because they had to worry about survival so basically they would lose all their knowledge and start again as basically wandering children because

34:50 their whole past has been destroyed. So when you want to look at it from that perspective, I'm in total agreement with that there were ancient societies or were ancient peoples there we're ancient cities that were completely decimated are wiped out from floods or earthquakes or fires and the archaeological record says that as well but I believe that Plato framed Atlantis in a way Where it's kind of this truth mixed with the likely story you know because if they're saying they lost the records will then how do they have the records. Right and not to detour too hard but like he said you were looking for how did the egyptian see the afterlife and

35:45 You know the egyptians obviously have their mounted creation story which maps very similar to them the motifs you're talking about. But i've heard you talk about this and really interesting way because i think one of the big curiosity is mummification obviously it was very intentionally done but, We don't do that today so there's this thing in my head that sometimes things man i wonder if we disrupt some part of the afterlife process by the way we process our dead today because they seem to have a pretty complex understanding of it and. I've heard you talk about the way they would say that the spirit actually can come back and get nourishment from the body in the tomb

36:29 If that's true, don't get cremated I guess. Well they're very big into this idea of spirit and the soul in different levels or the multi-dimensional being which is yourself everything from your name to your heart to your ka to your ba it's a body itself and your shadow you have all these different aspects of the self that all need guidance or nourishment And they believe very strongly that when you die, when the body decomposes it becomes unrecognizable. And because it's unrecognizable your spirit will be lost but if your physical body remains recognizable then you're basically grounded to the earth and you can come back anytime you want

37:24 So that's why mummification was very important. It was to stop the decomposition, to maintain the image of the person so that the spirit can now be attached and come back and forth. And that is why they fill the tombs with all the objects of the pharaoh—so not only will he take in the afternight life but you know he can deal with it on earth as well And this is why they made something called the Ka statue. Now, the Ka statue is kind of like what we would call an idol today which is kind of like an image of the deceased and it had to match the image of the deceased very well so that the Ka of the deceased could go into the statue

38:17 And this is where you get the concept of these holy statues or statues that could heal you, do miracles and things like that because the power of that being could now be channeled into the vessel of that statue. And that's why they believe that by giving it sustenance, as in what they enjoyed in life—food, water, blessings, sacrifices—whatever it was a way of feeding that ka to make it stronger so that its power would be stronger and therefore the miracles and asking for things is stronger.

38:57 I mean, have you worked out a plan for yourself? Are you going to try to marry this knowledge to like the modern conventional funeral rites situation. It's interesting because these concepts are actually still here all right so in Christian burials especially in Jewish burials you try to preserve the body because they say that when the Messiah comes or at the end of days, the body will rise up again on Earth. You have this kind of End Times messianic ascension-type theology where the physical body itself has to be here to then rise out of the ground when the end times comes. It's a very similar concept going back to this time period

39:55 But, you know, many people have different versions of this and have I made my plans? I joke. And I say just lean me up against a tree and you know, just let it go naturally but I don't know. In my mind it's like the opposite in my mind It's like, I don't want to be tethered so it was like just cremate me just get it over with You know get rid of that body and let the soul do or spirit do what it does. Okay i feel like thats what is going to happen to most of us and it seems the most practical conventional burial doesn't ever really make sense to me there's only so much land we can all have a dedicated lot forever, so yeah probably be cremated people i have lost that i care about they were both created so makes me feel good knowing that that's okay process

40:55 Yeah i mean look at lost out there you're gone and remember again is like. Your body the physical body itself is the earth it literally contains the elements of the earth, and they are so much microorganisms in bacteria ecosystem within our own bodies that the moment our heart stops, those ecosystems transform into something else. So you give life from the flesh like it is this cycle of creation and this is why most animals just kind of die in nature and then you have the scavengers, you have the plants that grow like we really wouldn't have trees

41:43 without this kind of movement of species around and dying, and things like this. Again it's just philosophy, it's just again a map of consciousness but I think the Egyptians were more interested in understanding the map of consciousness than understanding magic to create these systems of mummification. And I also want to say that you look at just the symbology of the mummification process and the different steps who is the deity who protects the dead and watches over the dead and takes them across? It's Anubis. And in cosmology, Anubis is related to the dog star. What's the dog star? It is Sirius. Sirius was one of the most important stars in the heavens. You're making me go back into like the astro-theology bank of my brain here

42:48 But basically, I'm trying to remember. I think the mummification takes exactly 70 days—they keep the body for a 70-day process of mummification and the interesting thing about that is Sirius goes behind the Sun 70 days out of the year so it becomes invisible. So it's like Sirius enters the underworld for 70 days and then is resurrected So it's almost like the mummification process mirrors the cycles of heavens as well.

43:28 I love that it's a pretty good segue to start talking about some of the stuff and astral experiences because. You are the guy you know we talked a little bit about last time your early childhood experiences having beans in your room being taken on astral adventures being told that you're energy field was weak and you really needed to strengthen it and of course you took that quite seriously and got Educated and trained in several modalities it's a really fascinating story. One thing I think is more recent that I heard you talk about, that is really probably right. Is you've talked...I think this might have been from contact at the desert but you kind of got over to the UFO people and told some of your stories and said look my stories are kind of a lot like these abduction stories. I know you've seen mantids, you've seen a gray once before And I just thought the term astral abduction was really good because you talked about how

44:31 What you experience is being taken out of your body and on these journeys and that the abduction experience. That's what it is but a lot of times people don't have the context of the astral body so people who are just westerners you know the farmer out in kansas to just never thought about his astro body when he's taken on a journey by gray. He thinks oh they grab my body and they took me they took all of me, but you would say actually maybe its an astro abduction and It's not to say it's a dream although we all have had dreams that feel as real as real life and i also think its interesting that time is warped in the abduction experience. The only other context for time being warped, is our dreams sometimes feels like we lived a lifetime and just a couple of minutes or hours but talk with about this idea you think

45:30 The alien abduction phenomenon should not be again this is kind of the theme of the day is stop literalizing everything from the atlantis story to the alien abduction but maybe this should be thought of more as a cosmic thing or an astral thing right so you know I came into this from the out-of-body experiences like him from this from shamanic understanding journeying with spirit and guides and things of that nature. So I was already having these experiences where I was separating my astral body or consciousness, or whatever mold you want to put that into. And I was having these experiences where I would separate from my body and go out into this astral world. It's very different from a dream or lucid dreaming and when you experience this the first time—even the first couple of times

46:29 It's almost impossible to separate you from you. I'm saying this in a way where, you are you okay? Doesn't matter if you're in a body or out of your body, I was still Jason. It's not like I left my body and suddenly I'm enlightened and then I have all this information. No, I have less information. You just have yourself, your identity floating out there and you're like what do I do? What's going on? If you haven't left your body before it's so real that actually feels more real than this physical experience and that's why such a profound thing for people to experience. So when they're out of body, you can tell that you're not physical is like a very physical experience because u feel like you still think like you use still feel like you

47:25 It takes time to realize that, wait a second I'm not breathing. Wait a second i don't have eyes or mouth to speak. I am speaking with my thoughts and you know? And still hear my voice but im not moving my mouth so it takes time to kind of adjust understanding okay this is something different Yes you had way more experiences in me but i've had a handful of experience is enough to confirm what you're saying and the only reason i could really tell. That's i was out of my body is looking down and seeing it, add other than that i was like i would just thought i was me like your internal monologue is still there and the same and you still feel like u have your same agency and your same

48:10 Works and tendencies everything of your internal world still seems preserved in present but you know that you're kind of like not in a physical place release that was my experience but. Even when i've heard people describe near death experience there's one crazy case of the woman who is struck by lightning, She thought it mister until she looked down and saw her body and so like if you don't look down in your body. A lot of times you don't have that contact so maybe in the induction experience that's just the part they miss they don't get that q to think about it in a deeper way are not material way yes and also remember that the mind is a processing system this is why the simulation theory is so interesting is that,

48:57 the mind processes reality. And just because you're separating from reality doesn't mean your mind isn't still processing it, so if you can't understand or you don't have words or concepts that the brain can understand, the brain will actually arrange things in a way that you can understand And this is also very strange as well because let's say you know you leave your body and your in your bedroom cable it's your bedroom in your bedroom so it's safe you understand that but isn't your bedroom. You know if you stay there long enough you'll notice things wait a second no that's not my bedroom or it will dissolve return into something else its almost like the brain or or the processing of your situation is held in place

49:48 in certain transitional phases. And I was having this crazy moment the other day, I'll say through deep meditation people talk about the bright light, the tunnel, the rope and people in the abduction experience see the UFO and it's like if you go back to old maps of consciousness or meditations its like the UFO is like the oversoul and it's like your tethered to this oversoul outside of you. And when you're sleeping, it's like your body gets pulled up through this light back to the over soul. The beaming up motif into the UFO and I was meditating on that. It was just blowing my mind because okay, I'll just come back to reality for a sec is a little far out but back to reality if I'm out in the jungle for example

50:48 and I'm like, okay. I'm going to try this ayahuasca ceremony or venom or whatever and I'm in the rainforest. I'm with shamans. I take this psychedelic thing and suddenly I've taken out of my body and put on a UFO and I'm on a table and there's these entities are aliens operating on me fixing me up or taking me apart and putting you back together am i in the ufo No, I'm on the ground hallucinating. And I'm not saying hallucinating is not real but I'm physically on the ground but mentally or spiritually and emotionally outside time and space in this experience getting operated by aliens or entities that look like aliens on a ship but in reality having my experience

51:53 So how do we kind of take these two experiences where it's like a physical abduction, which I'm not discounting either. But I would say that it is extremely rare if it indeed happens, extremely rare where 98% or more would be this type of astral abduction scenario? We have documents from people all over the world and different cultures entering into near-death experiences, out of body experiences, altered states of consciousness with DMT or plant medicines where they end up face to face with entities and technology that is described by alien abduction. So it's word for word the same thing. And this is how I kind of got into the UFO community

52:50 I would be debating a friend of mine, his name was Bob Mitchell. And I'd be debating with him because he was a journalist who is documenting abductees. So he interviewed hundreds and hundreds of abductees and just like John Mack and all these other people you just interviewed them and wrote down their experiences. When you broke the experiences down it followed a very specific thing As in you're laying in bed at night, you feel like a tingling in your body or weight on your body and you can't move. You're paralyzed and then you'll hear noises sometimes like metallic noises are popping and clicking. You may experience like a beam of light and suddenly you're being lifted off the bed so now you're floating above the bed and now you're taken out of your bed and through walls through your roof

53:49 into this kind of UFO abduction phenomenon. And I say, okay Bob that's the UFO abduction phenomena? Okay let me describe what out-of-body experience is like you're laying in bed and your body falls asleep and goes into sleep paralysis but your mind is still actively awake You may feel heat warm sensation tingling numbness vibrating through your body as you go through this shift It's very common to hear these popping, clicking metallic weird sounds. As you shift from the physical world to let's say the astral world it's this kind of falling out of your body or being lifted out and in the astral state you can fly through walls and travel and have these experiences so it's almost like step by step experience is the same thing. You know could we say that maybe aliens are

54:52 let's say, fourth and fifth dimensional. So they're outside of time and space, and the only way they can interact with us at that level is to separate our fourth-dimensional or fifth-dimensional bodies from our physical self to have that interaction. You have to understand when I would go public and say okay, I just saw this gray alien you know? Or this mantid came into my room If I would open my physical eyes, there's nothing in my room. Okay? It's not something I see with my eyes. It's something where i'm sleeping at night and I feel some disturbance in the environment of my room and because of that disturbance it's almost like a survival mechanism where my astral body pops out or my head...I don't even know how to explain it but it's kind of like

55:56 Let's say you're sleeping with your head in the pillow, so your eyes are covered. Your eyes are in the pillow and you feel something walking in your room instead of the body waking up it's like the astral body's head just turns around and kind of sticks out and looks around the room to see what's there but my eyes are still on the pillow. It's from that perspective from that eyesight that suddenly these beings are visible So for me it was never a physical thing it was out of body or spiritual dimensional thing. I think that makes a lot of sense and have always said because i've read hundreds of accounts of ufo encounters an alien counters, i've always said like there's so much variance in the reporting

56:48 I don't see how these can be like species from another physical planet even the crafts are described so differently i don't see like. Some industrial operation making models of crafts coming off an assembly line the way we make cars, It's not like that it's just thing there so bizarre they are more dreamlike and then in the dream you know there is infinite variance and not kinda what i see any abduction experiences infinite variants and different types of beans, there are some that hit more often than others for sure but not in the same way that.

57:26 Like you would say human can pick me up in a volkswagen beetle you know because we make a bunch of those are tesla or something. Well here's something that is really odd really odd because i live up in canada here we have tons of ufo sightings appear and one christmas my wife and i were driving home from friends house, and we both see a UFO. For me, I'm in the driver's side and it is on the left side here and it's basically hovering over the tree line. And I am looking at it and I'm like wow this is like the TR-3B exactly what the drawings show you know that three lights and then one light in the middle perfect if it was daylight I could probably see the rivets in it

58:20 What blew my mind is that it was actually quite small. It was like, okay this is maybe the size of a small bus or something. Like it wasn't that big! Now my wife in the other seat she experienced something completely different. She said that the craft was so big that she couldn't see end to end of it and had lights all the way across the side of it. So we're in this same car experiencing two different UFOs at the same time. Yeah, that's common too that you see somewhat what you might expect to see or the visuals get catered to each individual Right? So even today if I bring up that story to my wife i'm wrong. I don't know what I saw right because

59:17 And this is the whole thing with the mind creating reality, or the mind processing reality. Maybe this technology or craft or even spirit—I'll even go as far to say spirit—our minds cannot comprehend what it's seeing and will actually create the closest definition or the closest image it thinks that we will understand what we're seeing And you know i don't know how true this is but you know the whole thing with christopher columbus and the boats where the indigenous population, no couldn't see the boats yeah they say that it would tell me were there because their mind. Do not understand what that was and if they thought they were gods or something because its like they just came from the city you know like

1:00:17 Does the mind do that and the more i look into this the more im starting to agree that yes the mind does you ever see those experiments online like a tick tock or something where it's like. Give this kind of like robotic voice of gibberish can u hear the robotic voice, and it's gibberish, and then they show you a word on the screen. And then the gibberish comes back but now your brain hears the word that you're looking at. Yeah I've seen that So so the brain is receiving data that it doesn't understand but because now its giving you a point of reference which is the words Now your brain is hearing the word in your mind

1:01:04 Can that not happen with the visual cortex as well i think it absolutely can. Yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense to me so before we end this just to bring it back to the start of the conversation and the shining island, You have a chapter about the eternal return and this does kind of relate to health and mental health as well because it is kind of where we're headed, people probably could use all hands on deck for navigating through it but you write. As the great year completes another majestic revolution and the axis monday approaches one of its rare turning points The ancient story of Atlanta ceases to be merely an allegory of the past It becomes prophetic

1:01:50 How close are we to returning to the configuration described in the text where maybe our north star. Goes away and i are navigation and many different senses on many different levels or navigation is lost. Oh my god you get your actually brought up a really good point that i would have to look at something, Once in a while, I get one. Because right now we're in Polaris okay? So Polaris is the brightest star in the sky and the whole point of the allegory that we talk about in the book is that the North Star is the guiding light it's the shining island That's basically one of the celestial allegories is North Star and the Northern Heavens is the shining Island because all the heavens rotate around this point of light

1:02:44 Right now we're in Polaris, we're going around this point of light. But as we enter into Aquarius, we're still gonna be in Polaris but coming to the end of Aquarius, we start to enter into Cephas which is... We kind of lose our navigational star again so we don't have Polaris as the North Star anymore And then as it travels thousands of years close to Deneb in Cygnus, that's thousands of years without a real positive light-in-the-sky central island. Now for us to get back to Atlantis times which we put in the book with Lyra and Vega as the North Star, that's going to take about 14,000 more years. All right? We kind

1:03:40 the twin stars or the twin births that you have Vega and you have Polaris, which are the two brightest North Stars in the journey of 26,000-odd years of this cycle of The Great Year. So if we go back to Atlantis, if we take the dates prescribed by the Egyptian priests and so on Going back 11,600 years, that's the destruction date of Atlantis which is directly between the dark space between the legs of Hercules in this northern sky. So just outside the pillars of Hercules in the Atlantic Ocean like the as above so below but if you go back just 2,000 years when let's say Atlantis started and was at its peak of civilization and you had everything in perfect harmony and order

1:04:38 Vega was the brightest star in the celestial heavens, and all of the heavens revolved around Vega. So navigation—you know when people say high technology in Atlantis they were talking about being able to navigate the waters. They were talking about farming. They were talking about building bridges and irrigation systems and temples. This was the high technology that Plato was talking about, so they could navigate the seas—they were a military naval power. And to do this you needed a very strong northern star which is six times brighter than Polaris—it's Vega! So that's how they would navigate the Earth is by looking in the north sky.

1:05:25 Now, in the destruction of Atlantis it moves into Hercules and then there's about 6,000 years of no North Star at all. It's complete darkness for 6,000 years and civilization doesn't really start again until the Sumerians and Egyptians around 3,000 BCE. That's when Phoban in Draco becomes the North Star All right, so civilization basically starts again when they have this new North Star. So for us I would say that whenever we go into a transition phase and we have about 100 and maybe around 160 years until I think we're officially in the age of Aquarius usually in these transitional points there is

1:06:22 some type of cataclysm. It doesn't have to be a cataclysm by water and fire, it could just be the fall of Rome basically or the fall of society or something big happens to shift human consciousness. So right now it says within this time frame we're basically moving into this time of AI. We're moving into this time at the singularity where things are going to become known People call it disclosure or the apocalypse. It's just the unveiling of something that's going to be new, and then we're going to be guided by something completely different." In Plato's time… If you go back in these ages—let's call them the Platonic Ages—consciousness changes completely. We go from many gods to monotheism and that lasts a couple thousand years

1:07:20 and now we're into the technological age. Right now you see, the main conflict is all centered around these ideas that came out 2000 plus years ago of monotheism. So it's like these are civilization-altering things that's in conflict. How do we come out of it? What is going to be the next thing I don't think anybody knows and i don't think anybody's really gonna be here when it happens. Yeah yeah 150 years nobody makes that long right and if its just like the atlanteans there is going to be a group thats at the top of a mountain, that become like children again and forget about this world and start completely new mythologies. And the cycle continues wow well

1:08:15 Where to bring it home so i really enjoyed talking to you again and they get probably fortuitous for me that after taking a break in dealing with this. The first one i record is where the healer someone who has insights into these kind of things so i appreciate, talk until its been good medicine let people know about the next thing you're gonna be working on and of course were to keep up on what you doing well right now im still pulling this whole archetype of this Plato-Atlantis type thing. So right now I'm just focused on still meditating on this information because I think this opens up something far greater, and

1:08:59 I don't know. I don't know where I'm going next or what I'm doing next because just like this book, I wasn't planning on even going there or writing about it. It just popped in my head one day and I'm like, ''I have to write this.'' So I'm just going to play it like that, see how the muses speak to me but you could find me on thecrystalsun.com That's right have all my stuff or if you want the book within a day or two Just look up Amazon, which is The Shining Island. It's the newest book and we talked about the astral experiences as well. If you're interested in ancient philosophy and theology and the celestial dramas and allegories of my two books Astral Genesis and Gates to the Anunnaki get into that.

1:09:54 Well yeah we should all be as comfortable as you are just going with the flow. Let that be a lesson to all of us and thanks again take care man thank you and feel better good to be back people it is good to be back and great to talk to jason again he's an awesome guest, he's got a good energy and i like that combination of personal experience with the unseen realms and shadow beings and all that stuff along with his solid scholarly research He's also just a unique character who can speak from both sides and do it well. And when I saw that he had a new book out, i immediately hit him up and I wasn't sure that Atlantis was the topic that really made the most out of his skill set but I still liked it alot

1:10:41 There are several pieces of surrounding context to Plato's Atlantis that I was unfamiliar with, and he does a great job bringing that out and making the case that once again we in our simplified modern times with our simplified minds just struggle to operate on a level of complexity that was common in Plato's era at least among that class of people. And we literalize something that probably should be allegorical. And a story that isn't just about hubris, bringing down our perfected society but instead a cosmic timing that drives everything including that hubris and decay I love it

1:11:24 So insightful, and to me it's useful to be able to fold the Atlantis story back into that context that many other old stories seem to echo. And the elite don't want us to know about or think along those terms everything is in the stars and astrology is just such an underrated art form Yes, we have free will but we tend to skew towards our tendencies and influences and those can be unpacked astrologically and accounted for. I've been talking this astrologer Noah who i got to know through RuneSoup and even in my kidney situation he looked at my chart and told me Libra and Venus rule the kidneys

1:12:06 And Venus is in its fall into Virgo right now. Well, Virgo is cold and dry but Venus likes to be cold and wet so it makes sense that this would come up now because kidney stones involve hydration. You can adjust course and spend extra attention to hydration in these windows of time You always should, but if you have certain vulnerabilities in your chart you just make sure to give something extra attention. For me we know what it is now." And he recommended herbs of the phlegmatic nature tuned to the Venus hour and he added that also on August 5th Venus left Virgo and re-entered Libra

1:12:52 He suggested that would mean serious relief for me and it did. That's the day I got back to work, that i could actually sit in my chair all day and I got the last show out to you the day after that And I felt pretty good since Although my next and god I hope final surgery is tomorrow I've had the stone broken up in the last surgery, but it's still too big to come out on its own and they were unable to reach it with the tools they have so they're gonna be trying to extract the pieces tomorrow. And so I really hope that we can reach them and get them out and just close the books on this whole stupid thing." I'm 41! I shouldn't be going under anesthesia three times a month? What is this?!

1:13:37 And every time I get my voice back from the breathing tube, it's like I have to do it all over again. So I'm ready to say okay universe message received. I probably need to take better care of my kidneys in this new Florida environment than I did in San Diego and I will drink more water and I will have less hubris about the medical system because it is helping me out a lot right now but anyway another thing I think Jason is right about is abductions. I really had to rethink about my own small handful of out-of-body experiences. It's been like eight years and they were all drug induced, so you have a little more context or expectation when out-of-body experiences happen when you know you took drugs but I could see scenarios where if you didn't take any drugs or entheogens we might say to be more respectful the plant medicines

1:14:31 You'd be... or just even people who are totally ignorant, right? There's some people just totally ignorant of the out-of-body experience concept. Well I could see abductions happening in their astral body and a person not even realizing it Not even realizing that their physical form is still laying in bed or In the car as so often happens but at night you know maybe they dozed off Maybe you don't have to doze off. Maybe the beans can just pluck your astral body out of your waking body and it goes to sleep when that's done, I don't know but exactly like a dream You think the dream is real and you're just having an experience until you wake up And i've heard dozens of near-death experiences where the person thought that they didn't even get hurt Until they looked down and saw their body on the floor lifeless Like the lightning strike example that I mentioned

1:15:26 Her name is Elizabeth Krohn, I think. And she wrote a book with Jeff Kreipel called Changed in A Flash and Gordon had her on his podcast back in the day too In my experience, I was always so focused on the experience of what was happening that I didn't even think about my body until I went back to it except in one case The first case where I saw my friends shaking me around trying to make me come to That was interesting but i can see it's very much like the lightning thing where i didn't even know i was out of my body until i put my attention there. But if you're in a bizarre scenario and this weird things happening that takes all of your focus and you feel completely like yourself and u r any pain, it sounds weird but you can simply overlook or forget to wonder if your inner physical body are not

1:16:16 And if you're a simple country person who's never been a psycho not near taken at night check through walls or the roof of your vehicle check. And take it into a craft to have a bizarre experience that ends when you are put back check, it's astral body stuff and the whole alien experiences way closer to shamanism then some aliens from outer space just seems clear to me more all the time He's right on and i just couldn't agree more so in the second hour we unpack that a lot more talks more about initiation higher self in the oversold of a person. Some really useful helpful things that got a bit personal to but,

1:16:58 Healing through Qi Gong meditation and energy work the relationship between trauma illness and energetic crystallization we could say. Cancer and allopathic medicine versus alternative healing, the importance of mindset will an observation in ancient health practices versus modern Distracted living i guess i would say but then we brought it home with the eternal return and play those cyclical view of history in a great year polaris vega and shifting north stars. This was really great one of my favorites in a long time besides the last one which is also favorite

1:17:40 but good for me on a personal level with the wide scope overall. So you know, the deal where a sponsor free show that doesn't have to consider if the ad agency we work with is going to like what we decided to talk about it's just me, the guest and you guys it's a beautiful system and if you like the first hour or you will like the full interview become a plus member and get THC the same way you do now or I should say get THC plus the same way you do now You can use the website, sure. But you can also use the private RSS feed and go right into all the big podcasting apps that you probably use now. You can download the shows to any device you want for later I've spared no expense in keeping everything up-to-speed so even if you listen to THC on Spotify signup through Patreon and you can keep doing that too it's a beautiful thing

1:18:31 Also, in higher side news people have been asking why I stopped doing the In The Weeds shows and why I've backed off the book reports and solo shows. It really hasn't been a conscious decision they are more work and a lot has happened in a short time Gordon died and then I had to trip to Hawaii Plus when i look at the numbers, the solo stuff has been popular with those who check it out and well reviewed but only about half those who would check out a typical interview bother to check out the solo stuff at all. I'm not offended! I want to do what the people want and it's a lot more work so if it's a lot more work in half is popular... Well, I'm not exactly rushing to do more

1:19:15 I will though. In the Weeds is useful to talk about smaller threads and trendy stories that matter or are interesting but don't fit into the interview format, and even though it's more work, i do like being able to do solo shows on my own time without needing to rely on anyone else so they will happen I really just need a month where nothing else is taking up my time. The kids are back in school after very chaotic and demanding summer, so that'll certainly help. Just stay tuned on that. It is a marathon not a sprint right? What else? Well, the last episode with Matthew J. Bell definitely a new favorite three shows in and we've always had a good time and they're always well reviewed And this one's no different 4.9 Can you believe it doesn't get any better over 75 reviews all aggregating to a four point nine out of five Really impressive He is one of the best

1:20:15 Fun story, the Bankers Trust thing was. Definitely unexpected and fresh and that's what we like right? Okay as for the meetup calendar at highersidemeetups.com where anyone can make a free local event and try to meet some THC fans in their area here is what we got this month okay August 15th Woodstock Virginia The Woodstock Brewhouse And then we have another one August 15 Los Ranchos, New Mexico at Hops Brewery. August 16th St Paul Minnesota Black Stack Brewing. August 16th Albuquerque, New Mexico that is the tech conference guy that came quick I don't think i'm going and then we have the Gainesvorte's New York slash Saratoga meetup at The Dancing Grain Farm brewery august 22nd and That's it a decent amount of events. I'm happy with that

1:21:10 make like-minded friends and expand your local network and just have a good time. Hiresidemeetups.com for more details on any event, please RSVP and let the host know what to expect how many people do expect and just lean into life! And that's the show thanks again to Jason he is the man And I will catch you on the next one, post-surgery. Fingers crossed! I've done my part Your move Atlantis myth literalizers cosmic cycle secret keepers and ongoing astral abductors your fucking move I see you sitting in traffic and you look so stuck no sense of adventure just a routine fuck they can diagnose depression but don't know why you're bored

1:22:05 Mystery comes knocking but you don't answer the door No, there are lights in the sky not found on Earth Creatures deep in the forest that no ranger has tagged There are things in the ocean You won't see from the land Life's under no obligation to make sure you understand I'm told the truth is out there When you get past the lies It comes when you least expect it And it wears a disguise It'll tell you everything just for goof Can't take any pictures, won't have any proof So I watch ya live

1:23:06 Like you never wanted it A lost soul that's forgotten what really haunted is But just let me say This is a horror approach to seizing the day There are things you can know That you can't even think No doctor has medicine like the shaman's next drink Sleep is never better than inside of the dream Who promised you anything would be as it seems I'm told the truth is out there When you get past the lies It comes when you least expect it And it wears a disguise It'll tell you everything, yeah

1:24:11 Can't take any pictures