Gordon White | Success Magic & Chaos Protocols For The New Economic Reality

00:04 When it's poppin' masters almost surely have a pimp There clearly may be something there And until you've thoroughly tested every last post Just to think you know the less you really do That's true, Dr. Seuss! They're working without THC Cause we know they're lying to us just don't poop without THC The Higher Side Jack show our work in company

00:42 Alright people, it's no secret that the cubicle-clad cog in the machine Rothschild Rockefeller reality is not a path that comes highly recommended from me. But there can be a sense of comfort to the explorer that eventually it will be there when we're ready to retract back to that all too familiar conventional roadmap with the white picket fence But if you dig into the data, you'll see that that roadmap offered to our parents' generation is now a recipe for ruin as we enter a new economic reality that's radically different from the Industrial Revolution. These are troubled times folks! Dare I say chaotic? And so what better guide than the captain of the Chaos Quidditch team conjured up from sunny West London, the maestro behind the magical symphony that is RuneSoup.com and the author of not only the previously covered Starships but now a success magic guidebook for The Modern Sorcerer, The Chaos Protocols Magical Techniques For Navigating The New Economic Reality my friend and yours Gordon White my good man welcome back to the higher side

01:40 Thank you so much, Greg. I was very much looking forward to that introduction they're always amazing Yeah well...I mean you've been on so many times now i'm just running out of creative ways to say your awesome Well you could put me back in one of the songs you know just yeah yeah yeah i'm totally willing to do that Yeah, man. I've been looking forward to this for a long time! I definitely enjoyed Starships and i had some very valuable takeaways that are really insightful for getting a more accurate bead on our magical history but the Chaos Protocols is a success magic book for largely unsuccessful times and i think it's just what the people need. I loved it and i think it's very pertinent for the listeners

02:22 To get us started, for us to even know that we need a radically different game plan. We have to realize the radically different shape of the economic game were playing help us to see this situation more clearly how do we know this isn't just our typical ebb and flow situation? What's really the difference is time Well, I guess to start with the good news. The difference is today we have better access to data and analytics than we've sort of ever had before so it becomes quite easy to like genuinely check whether we are doing better whether the claims that are kind of being made from sort of government and banking in general economic levels

03:05 actually matches our lived reality and actually even matches the numbers. Because the reality is they don't, some of the biggest changes that are occurring particularly in the West at the moment driven by forces that are never going to unwind so yes we're in a kind of economic patchy area but maybe only covers about 20% of what were experiencing The other 80% is quite structural. So we have, for instance the giant demographic move which is the baby boomers leaving the workforce They're not just leaving the workforce they're actually leaving shall we say the consumer force so the US economy is 70 percent based on consumption and retirees don't consume anything And these numbers are sort of unprecedented 10,000 boomers are going to retire every single day Every single day between now and 2025

03:57 So, it is a huge departure out of not only the workforce but it sucks a whole tremendous amount of demand out of the consumer economy which obviously has impacts for businesses that are trading in it and majority of them are. That is something that isn't going to change. And we've actually kind of reached that tipping point where I think it was officially as of last month, there are more millennials in the workforce than boomers so we're at the other end of that curve. The other one of course is automation and this is kind of a huge trend what we've sort of witnessed Thanks to trade agreements and the rise of China as the world's factory is an improvement in automation that has automated away over the last 30 years, the kind of working class half of the job spectrum.

04:42 Now it's coming for, instead of sitting in that middle spot now it's coming for the other half of the spectrum sort of middle class and up. And we're experiencing on a day to day basis with the amount of fast food workers that are being replaced by robots even as they ask for a rise in minimum wages which would be nice but that just triggers their eyes at the robot faster. There is no turning that off either because the economics for business are inarguable in favor of robots. Robots don't get sick, robots don't need health care contributions, robots do not need to go their kids plays so we're having sort of structural changes that basically mean that the promise of the previous generations have work hard at school oh there's another one across since 1980 tertiary education has increased by 9700 percent it is fastest piece of inflation if anything

05:36 sort of ever in the West. So we're getting further and further in debt for jobs that aren't there now, and won't be there in the future 75% of Australians in tertiary education are training for jobs that wont' be around in five years time. We're kind of right there... And this whole sort of thing has been... There is a disconnect between the narrative that were being told and the lived reality And the narrative that we've previously been told is, you know go to school work hard get a job buy house. The end and up in a box now all of these pieces have been fundamentally changed to the point where my mind this sort of what might initially appear to be a radical solution

06:23 isn't so radical given the alternative, like the normal one 100% doesn't work. So where is this sort of insanity in deciding that actually we need to fundamentally rethink how we create money and how we create meaning and what that looks like rather than trying to sort of larp a baby boomer life in 2016? Right, right. You look at the data and it's just obvious that radical change is the only answer And this mantra of what worked for the baby boomers won't work for millennials is one of the main themes in the book that keeps coming back. To quote you on it, you say, The baby boomers were the economic equivalent of a biblical locust swarm." I like that but it really is a perfect analogy the more you get into it and maybe you can elaborate on some more of the deeper truths that are in that analogy. It helps to strengthen the point that things really aren't going back

07:23 Well in other places in the book when we meet i mean i was sort of there's a bit of license to it but not much the story of the american economy over the last fifty years has been the story if things baby boomers by so from birth there was a diaper boom. Then, you know they kind of got to move through free education into a workforce of 100% employment because after the war America represented 70 percent of the planet's GDP because Europe was in ruins. Well at Europe and America's enemy were in ruins So there were jobs for people who had degrees and there was housing because housing was about 20% of GDP. So it all kind of hummed and worked together, you had people that employed

08:08 employed in stable jobs and growing businesses. And so you could have a building boom that hadn't really been inflated yet, so you can get a house for $11,000 that was a few miles from your factory in Detroit and that one salary could raise a couple of kids and keep a wife – none of that exists. the baby boomers went after that. In an effort, because they're such a large demographic cohort what happened was the story of kind of campaign promises is again the story of things that baby boomers want so they move through free education and all of sudden we have to pay for it because you know the baby boomers need a tax cut yeah everywhere they go their kinda pulling up the ladder after them then turn around call the millennials feckless for not having a job or getting out of there parents basement

08:57 It's a betrayal. There is no other way to describe it, they move through this entire thing buying large cars and then having sort of tax incentives to buy additional houses which has extra demand at the lower end of the market which is where first time buyers should be and all these happen kind the end of Bretton Woods in the late 70s, which is when the kind of market financialized and debt and interest rates shot to the moon. And that's a kind of debasement process which means the houses inflated in price to keep boomers happy and also so that governments could cleave their capital gains tax off it. So all these pieces have been built

09:38 to essentially keep the baby boomers happy so that they get the votes. And we're now at the end of that process because they're dying and retiring, and if we look around... I mean as i kind of say in the book, The good news is I find the baby boomer life horrifying and terrifying at the same time! I don't want you know a suburban house and a factory job and just kind of do that for 30 years and get a gold watch which seems like a profligate waste of human life And there's that kind of change that I think at younger generations, particularly millennials. So the in-between generation when you're talking about Gen X has a different attitude to it as well as they kinda came of age and this sort of winter of discontent

10:21 you know, late 70s years. So there's a personality difference there. The millennials lean towards things like teamwork and peer-to-peer and that kind of sharing rather than the kind of Sex Pistols rebel archetypes with Gen X and just the general kind heterosexual male capitalist competition whoever dies with the most toys wins attitude of the boomer so where were actually in many respects it's good news if we can just look at the data and go well yeah everything that will be promised is alive but the good news is we don't actually want to stop and think about.

11:00 yeah you're right we don't want it i mean i certainly didn't and instead i made some radical choices and took off for the west coast without a job but there are a lot of changes coming obviously we have this movement in the baby boomers in retirement age, automation coming right on the heels of that to fill the gap and really screw the millennials. And that automation piece of puzzle is never gonna go away its only gonna get more and more refined so thats tough But there's even more. You mentioned in the book, Catherine Austin Fitts refers to some of these changes as a once-in-a-civilization event and people might recognize this and see huge amounts of wealth accumulating in places but how can we as individuals get a seat at the table? How can we use any of this knowledge to our benefit? Don't be afraid to look at it is the first one like it is stark as we were kind of discussing before we hit record there's some fairly good

11:54 My assessment of housing as an investment in the U.S over the last 60 years isn't like an opinion, but they are there to support it and people react emotionally to this idea that some kind of – and it's largely thanks to a few decades of millions and millions in advertising associating mortgage debt with some sort of threshold of adulthood where you're not a real adult until you own a house. even though you don't, because you're in a mortgage and even once you pay that off if you do not pay your property taxes you don't get to keep your house anyway. So if you look at these pieces and just be unemotionally and go right there is no other

12:37 The fake life will never work. The life you see in TV advertising will never work, so what else can we do? And there are a number of things I mean from an economic basis the obvious ones are to get out of debt faster or stay out of debt and I know people think that's an easier said than done thing and it is but I have people who replied saying that's easier said than done. Where do you live? And i'm like, well i live in this big house and it's just me and my kid and there is two of us in this four bedroom house Ding ding ding. Sorry, we need to look at what housing means over this is kind of where it not that it ties in with starships but there's something starships about the realization that It was really an experiment a post-war experiment that one family could keep three houses solvent at once grandparents parents and you has never happened before never since we started building structures

13:34 Relive the multi generational houses we live with friends you never used to be called flat sharing was something like taking rooms and all this but it's because the economics just didn't. Can match no one so it is an investment in even today the most successful economy in europe germany has a majority renting population, So that's the first one, you actually have to look and decide which things are in your head that you want from your life actually belong to you and which ones belong to the sort of TV advertising that you've picked up over 30 or so years you've been on Earth. That's one that costs nothing, you can do that yourself. It doesn't really matter how much debt you have. But if you're kind of coming up to a college age, there are kinds of options like if you've got rich parents and they're going to pay for it go to an Ivy League school! There's no sort of net difference in earnings from education at an Ivy League school but you get to network with

14:28 very skull and bones type, and get yourself a nice Washington job or so. They're there. The power of expensive education is in the analog networks that you can be part of if not get the cheapest online degree you can possibly find because again, but a couple of years out no one's gonna care that you went to Hollywood upstairs medical college or something else So there are ways that you can kind of radically carve the debt out. As for opportunities, the once in a civilization event that Catherine Austen Fitz was referring to is the securitization

15:07 or the equitization of the entire planet. So if you look at stock markets around the world, this is a number straight out of her Solari report but if we look at stock markets around the world in the last 30 years they've gone from something like 9 trillion to 22 I think it's closer to 30 now and its on its way to 70 So this is the digital and mobile technology and infrastructure has allowed that opportunity to present itself. That means businesses in China, Malawi and wherever are going to be available for you as an investor to invest in via a mobile device. And coming along with this I mean FinTech is kind of a dirty word at the moment because to be fair most of it is fraudulent and lying but there's a huge amount of growth

15:51 ethical and new ways of investing that present opportunities again you can give names but everyone situation is different it's a landscape we need to be aware of rather than this specific company that's more gold rush rather than, i sort of change and not that also presents with the largest base of consumers ever again another catherine number. But mobile handset smartphone in particular ownership is over two billion mark which means its biggest addressable consumer market in the history of mankind. There's never been anything like it, and if you're a podcaster for instance Greg, you have access to into a potential market that no one in human history has ever had access too. So these are the opportunities that come along with the fundamental and profoundly transformative economic technological demographic changes that we're sort of midway through

16:49 Yeah, man. I am lucky to have stumbled my way into the positive aspects of a lot of this stuff but you talk about the fact that both in magical practice and in life we don't get it right because oftentimes we do not identify our targets correctly success magic is great Of course But what is success really people say they want money so they can have The most freedom but what is most likely meant as optionality Talked with us a little bit about that Yeah, this is one of Nassim Taleb's words but I'll kind of back it up. He talks about it when he talks about what's known as the teleological fallacy. The teleological fallacy is believing that you think

17:31 The best way to get something done that's in the future and also that you believe that everyone else kind of knows it as well. And if you look at anything any kind of project or experience in any humans life that is just fundamentally not correct there something about how human built, that makes us come to the teleological fantasy and everyone does it so you just have to be aware that that fallacies in play or not The best way to be aware and the best way to manage the impact of a teleological fallacy is with what he considers optionality. Now, optionality is basically – I'll give you Taleb's definition and then explain what that means

18:12 you're kind of in an anti-fragile state if you gain from disorder. So, if you gain from an unanticipated event rather than negatively impact or no impact. Optionality is an example of that so the best example I believe it's called fuck you money? You don't actually necessarily need to spend that but you get fired that's a negative event but not like this case because then have time the other thing that you want, like I'm going to write a book. I'm going to cut an album or what have you or find another job so optionality is kind of rather than aiming for the end goal which is I want a house in The Hamptons or whatever it happens to be, optionality is to kind of phase it step by step because of the teleological fantasy and maintain

18:59 maintain that ability to gain from what would have otherwise been considered a negative impact. And you do that a few times and you kind of start to build your way of thinking so that you become phased with each step towards whatever your particular goal is The sort of probabilities for the step after that change so if you kind of putting your intention in whatever way I just not magically or magically. What's the end goal you're not really maximizing this is a probability enhancement opportunities on the way which means you actually less likely to do the math like if you remember doing statistics and

19:38 If you go 1 in 2 times, 1 in 3 times. You get a very tiny fraction at the end of it right? So if you do a one and two via magic or just general intentionality 55, 45 odds or 60, 40 odds then you're winning and you get to the next one and that's another 1 in 2. By the way we don't have to calculate these numbers beforehand that some kind of lunacy but if you think about it that way then basically only dealing with moving a higher probability bit higher rather than sort of 1 in 164

20:16 option of getting what you think you want, which is going to be wrong anyway at the other side. Now magicians aren't very good at this because humans aren't very good at it but in Magic's case in particular Western magic draws so much from the sort of Greco-Roman shape of how magic works and how spells are constructed and so on. The Greeks were amazing at trigonometry and geometry and they were shit at basic maths So, the Greeks never invented this notion of probability. We really didn't get that until about the 17th century. There were sort of inklings over beforehand but it's actually a very new discipline because it is not a way either evolutionary or otherwise

20:58 It's not a way humans are kind of built to think. So it is, it's a muscle or its skill you need to kind of learn by doing and as it turns out and this is one of the things we talk about in the book The universe is probabilistic, so it says something potentially quite important that we should potentially have a probabilistic understanding ourselves. Right and that is one of the revelations I had with this book because when it comes to actually trying to get into magic or magical targeting this applies greatly because it seems like we should aim for smaller factors to success

21:41 rather than just writing some sigil looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, right? Yeah. And that emerged out of years of getting sigils wrong before I got them right but basically yes is a short answer so there's this kind of complete way if you've never done this before running through sigils and how they create them and their activation in the book. The particular method that I've been espousing for a few year matches, you're kind of forced to and this is kind of like hiding the vegetables in the kids food. You're kind of forced to think probabilistically just by constructing an activating sigils in a way that it's described in the book.

22:25 Yeah, I love that. And you did touch on this but it is one of the great things about your writing and how you approach the mechanisms of magic as you take data from consciousness studies near-death experiences clues from the quantum world and You take this knowledge and see how it can be used to fine tune the magic, you know To get to what works and remove what doesn't And that's kind of the thing I really love. It kind of, in a way it normalizes magic you know? You take that back! In a good way, in the best of ways for someone like me because when I'm looking at and it just seems like a lot of drama and theatrics to some degree...you basically look at science and say no look there is something here and I like those indications

23:12 Well, that's chaos magic to a T. It's very opportunistic it looks for the things that works it doesn't promise you some sort of grand vision of how the universe works. It doesn't promise you a metaphysic that you might get with whatever golden dawn systems are today and or theosophy or what have you. a vision or an explanation of the world you have to build that yourself because the reality is if you don't build it yourself, you're running off someone else's. But yes I find it interesting we basically have some very good data over the last hundred and twenty years that all these things seem like they are quite important to magic have some reality to them

23:55 Consciousness survives death. There is some form of after-death state of humans that we can be in contact with, and as we know from an improved understanding of the ufological phenomenon that little green men is an insufficient answer so that we not only have spirits but a spirit world that it is a spectrum that involves Non physical way to a full physical interaction and you find in magic away of. I just kind of modeling that but engaging with it with a few safety blankets around, we also have this kinda improved understanding of things that the mind or consciousness can actually do so you have telepathy and you have

24:35 clairvoyance and you have this ability to alter, but not by much. To sort of slightly alter probabilities and that's the kind of key to it so we have Dr Dean Radin's famous research at Burning Man with random number generator and people would sort of focus on it just like you know and this is burning man so these aren't sober normal people they're off their face and they can still do And you can get measurable changes in a kind of random number generator that show that this sort of group consciousness effect can impact the material world. So, you pull all these together and go right so... That's magic! Right? That's what it is and these are data that support something I've always known but to get people who are on the magic fence off the magic fence

25:28 It kind of helps to go alright so this book isn't gonna have too much about ascended masters and dolphins actually run through information that doesn't sound right is not right and then you can look it up in your holy shit that's right yeah man i love it don't see it. as often as I feel like i should in some of the books that I read. But let's talk about the life after death thing a little bit because I personally have had an aversion to anything ghost related because of the religious implications so, I never dug too much into things like the skull experiments for example which now seems pretty amazing as one of the clues into how reality really works can you talk just a little bit about that? As the smoking gun that consciousness does survive human death

26:12 Well, I have different guns that smoke but the Skoll experiments are frankly astounding. The Society for Psychical Research was set up in London 120 years ago? I went to its birthday recently and I don't think that's right it's more than that anyway this group emerged in a very high Victorian confident way, they could see electric lighting and we had all these new things like geology and what have you. And the radio so people were kind of like okay so these things exist it was in that interesting sort of intertidal zone between the end of a not really examined Anglicanism and the rise of science and scientists were totalling off with their materialism then everyone else is

27:00 Well that's not right either, but we have all these things and it was kind of like can we use these scientific processes to find out something about the afterlife or you know divinity also on this is one of those extremely confident and in retrospect hilarious projects. It still exists and they're actually quite diligent. You would think that they would err on the side of, oh yeah that's definitely a ghost or that was definitely telepathy but the reality is most of their research is extremely boring because they will throw out... I'm potentially more credulous than them. They'll throw out stuff that I think it's almost open and shut There is one that is the most incredible experiment in there more than 100 year history which are the Skoll experiments which is named for town in East England

27:43 And a group of SPR members spent about a year doing, you know it's sort of classic Victorian seance model. Down in the basement they had a table and there was no light and they painted that out. They started to get kind of channeled messages like mild poltergeist effects. They would meet for at least once a week for a year. After a year or so... On The Spirits on the other side they named the spirit team because We've been looking for a group that we can kind of say, like give the definitive proof to. This is what the Spirit team said and then after year the most astounding things happened so that they had

28:25 imported objects that included newspapers from the 1940s which are impossible to fake because they were using an ink replacement because of the war, so you can't get anymore. It's not used as an ink and just that arrived from nowhere and they had sealed like factory-sealed canisters of Kodak film that they would unroll when written messages and sort of formulae, and all this kind of stuff on. Just the most astounding sequence of things that cannot work in anything other than a spirit model for people who are interested in this you'll find a couple of full-length Skoll documentaries on YouTube, Skoll experiment documentaries, they're certainly worth your time. They're a few years old now so

29:11 If you kind of remember what Discovery Channel was like circa 2003, that's what you're in for. But the information behind it is very worth your time and so if you can hear all these data points and you could hear the NDE research, you do start to build a model that goes okay I can no longer...I can kinda logic my way to the realization on the reality of the spirit world That's fine for most people. For magicians, there is something very different in... or potentially broken whatever in our heads that makes you want to play with that a bit and Chaos Protocols is definitely for that sort of person. Yeah I like that section it is pretty convincing for the areas I didn't want to look at previously just because my religious upbringing wanting to throw out everything has to do with that but Well I don't land on

30:04 a very specific model. I don't know what happens, you know? I don't know what they are." So like yeah...I don't want to give people the idea that they'll get to the end of it and it will be something about a tunnel in Jesus. Right! Of course that is an important thing to point out. It's not like that but there is some data to suggest in some form there is a life after death and we shouldn't ignore it. That's basically the point I guess for this For sure. And to tie a bit of the magic to a bit of the science in kind of more detailed way, what would you say the Hermetica got right when it comes to understanding consciousness' interaction with matter?

30:43 So, the trouble with the Hermetic texts if you kind of talk about them all at once is that a lot of them are goo basically and there are a lot of them. But what we've come to consider as sort of hermetic worldview Turns out to be quite, and the other risk is the last hundred years have had a bunch of kind of spiritual people who use science to kinda prove a worldview. And in both cases we're kinda like fingers pointing at the moon here because science is a description rather than an explanation so they're both pointing at the same thing with different words but this sort of broad hermetic view

31:27 is one of an animate universe, so it's largely consciousness run. They use different words and a few other things run with them but crucially man co-creates reality which is in some sense sort of unfinished by the act of observation and learning and that is this devotion to God too but to kind of do that. So you have this idea we being a tiny reflection of the sort of cosmic mind as an individual mind, and in the act of observing reality, we in some sense complete creation. Now that looks very similar to the double slit experiments of this sort of mid-20th century quantum theorists for instance. There are other pieces that I find kind of interesting which I learned recently like subsequently to publishing with a book so there's that famous microcosm macrocosm thing

32:21 is a perfect encapsulation of the divine. Now, if you look at how NPCs are built in a game environment and digital environment they have to have a map of the entire world in their heads to function correctly so the entire universe is in their head just like it's in the head every little NPC characters that can operate within the world of the game. I think that's really interesting because if one did have to build an entire universe, which we now do it turns out that you have to basically work to hermetic models to get the whole thing to work

33:03 Yeah, that's amazing man. So to weight us into some of the magic stuff in relation to our economic situation you dedicate a chapter to what you call true initiation or becoming invincible and its importance is summed up pretty well with this quote there is no greater defense against the grim uncompromising wasteland of the late capitalist world than the unshakable awareness that it will end and you will not. And that's beautiful, man! Talk to us about the importance of becoming invincible and just how the hell we actually do that? Sure well it's a magic book I mean its published by Llewellyn and they do a lot of metaphysical kind of 101 books which I wasn't sure if wanted to write and mine is kinda a Heston Blumenthal deconstructed one of these things

33:49 One of the things that is sort of fraught with challenge in the Western magical tradition is initiation and authenticity because we haven't had initiatory traditions for one and a half thousand years. So since the mystery schools ended, there's no secret kind of group running down through them so initiation has become fairly politicized in those last 130 years where When the Golden Dawn built their system, they kind of modeled it on Freemasonry and pretended they had all these secret documents which is sort of very a resecution thing to do. The OTO, which is German when Crowley joined it. Everyone's pretending they're a lot older than they are and they're not right? So we have kind of malformed discussions in the magical world about initiation now in the meantime and the rest of the world there is initiation Initiation is a kind of triggering event that makes you realize

34:40 Reality is not advertised at all. And it can be in the book I kind of say you can skip this chapter Discovery Channel's done a ghost show in your house or if you've been abducted by aliens like it needs to be an extreme event after which there's no getting the toothpaste back into the tube, but you cannot return to an official reality because It's incomplete. Now, initiation truly done if you look at say New Guinea and Highlanders or if you look at people being initiated as Eurasian shaman or kind of similar roles in the Amazon or even sort of this sort of classic First Nations vision quest kind of ideas You have to have an inciting incident that

35:25 Triggers that triggers this engagement with the university way it is extremely profound that is you can kind of a kinda bc ad your life around. So becoming invincible is what I call that because once you've had that experience, once you know and again I emphasize it doesn't even need to be pleasant. I mean I hope it is but it doesn't need to be right once you know that it's not as advertised you are invincible like if your boss has had a bad day and she's just being a cow to you all these things become smaller. They become smaller because they're not, it's not real you know? It's not at all

36:05 This isn't actually reality and more importantly, you're invincible. Death can't end you." That's kind of the prize that about a third of the way through anyone's magical journey, that unshakable realization and once you get it, the rest is gravy unfortunately the other two-thirds when it comes to sort of more traditional magical orders they've kinda populated their remaining two thirds with different aprons different titles and colors and crossing the abyss, which is gilding the lily. Because there is a before-and-after once you know that you are invincible – I mean that in the sense of please don't jump off a roof! When death comes for you, it doesn't end. It really puts everything else into perspective

36:54 unperspective if that makes sense. Let's just invent words, so that was kind of what becoming invincible means. Right and that is an important part in the book And you can't obviously induce a typical alien abduction scenario or ghost in your house for Discovery Channel to cover, but psychedelics they really are invincibility in the palm of your hand. Of course you have to use them the right way? Yeah, you have to do them right so I again it's a Terence McKenna thing but he sort of said a shaman without psychedelics is

37:31 is like a pilot without a stunt plane. You're not doing it correctly, and we do have this opportunity and it's part of the sort of collapse of our current totalitarian superstructure piece by piece that doesn't all come down at once. It's like cake in the rain. Is that there are ways you can legally do this now? And I get... The other pushback I get is oh its too expensive to go to Amazon or what have you to do it right It's an opportunity cost error. Like it'll cost you a few grand, no question but hopefully you're not gonna want your TV when you come back. How do you put a price on invincibility? Yeah this is... yeah put the book down like I'm not saying that's the only way to do it and in fact there are states in the US where you will be able to find ethical magical groups or witches or so on and they are legally available molecules

38:29 You combine that in a ritual space and it might work. But this is what we have used for 30,000 years to become invincible so it was kind of difficult part to write in that chapter because obviously its book published by a proper publisher in the US So I can't be like get some mushrooms wherever you get them here's a prayer Have a sister go and do this. They can't have that book and i'm in technically we can say here either technically we cant but i would i mean i from my experience i would say don't even let legalities get in the way of your immortality no well yeah i didn't end,

39:10 I kind of had to put it in the book, which is a big deal. There's a tendency at the moment to overemphasize ayahuasca. It's kind of... Yes, trendy! Yeah, it's like olive oil was in the late 90s or something. Everyone's writing books about how they went to Tuscany and learned how to press olive oil and that's the same thing with ayahuasca now. Not sure if I sent it to you but fantastic Onion article, Ayahuasca Shaman dreading upcoming week teaching more tech CEOs about spirituality or something. That's basically where we're at, so I don't want to fall into that trap because there are other molecules and there are other routes and there are other traditions that will take you on that journey without you having to...that is part of their tradition will do that and then you're not going to wake up and suddenly

40:06 I didn't sign up for this religion, but have you? And there are a number of them around the world. There are a number of places where you can do that because it is medicine so it's viewed in a medicinal way and as part of their role that you can be welcomed in and have these experiences in the correct space that will do it. If anything like I'm glad you picked on it The magical community likes to talk about the ritual component, which is the other half of the chapter. But I do actually open it with there's no like... The best way to do it is this and I can't say otherwise. It would be dishonest." Yeah yeah! That's funny because at the time when I was first getting into psychedelics, I had a friend who had the same kind of thing he was going down

40:55 meditative consciousness, astral projection type realm. And we were both coming to similar conclusions in our exploration but I was like man for me I just have to dive right into the deep end of the pool it's nice that you can wade in nice and slow and methodically but for me it doesn't work. In my inciting event was Salvia. I know I'm in the minority but you definitely didn't have to go far to get salvia when I did it It was available actually in head shop Yes, is it still? I don't know if it still is or not. Yeah, um...I haven't had it for years but I think it's available here. Not pleasant but I'd recommend it! But it doesn't need to be pleasant that's the thing

41:35 Exactly. Again, if you're going to do something that lasts longer than salvia you'd want it to be pleasant but yeah absolutely and uh... To get to that other side you also dedicate some time to our ancestors and the dead I know we've talked a bit about ancestors before i'm sitting just five feet from my own personal ancestor altar right now well done yes finally But in this economic context, how can commuting with the dead be helpful? Depends on the dead. You can go full necromancy and I don't know summon up JP Morgan from wherever he is down there. Well but well when I mean I haven't and I wouldn't recommend that but technically you can you know... I still got the training wheels on man!

42:23 The answer is to work as if it's kind of like non-specific luck magic. If you think even for people who've been adopted or had family trauma early on, you can skip people I kinda go into the Romans in particular would adopt people just so that they would have someone to perform Ancestry Rites once they died. Same thing, that kind of happens with China and Japan now in some places because if you've had a falling out with your son or your daughter's died or what have you like this is part of the process So I just want to kind of put it out there because feedback wise if people are adopted Or they've you know family trauma and so on then that's all the thing You can skip generations you can also And this was like

43:06 the worst magic in Egypt, but you can erase ancestors. You can actually get... I deny you this food, I deny you this water if we're in that trip. That happened to Hatshepsut, the sort of female pharaoh they kept rubbing, they erased her names after her death and that's very powerful magic in Egypt. They say that about Akhenaten too? Yeah exactly because there are a lot..I mean Egyptians have that kind of wonderful crazy animus cosmology. So you're doing that, you are actually destroying that thing! That's sort of how it works. I'm not saying do that with your ancestor alter in day one what i am saying is if you are alive today in 2016 and have a bloodline, you have a chain of people going back to the first human there is no other way that you're here now that's a long chain

44:00 hardship and challenges that have been overcome, and so on. So there's a sort of wellspring of perspective available from it but from a magical perspective Given that this was, archaeologically it appears that this was our first spirituality. The remembrance of our dead families. We have kind of broken from that admittedly only recently in the West like if you especially if you have a Catholic sort of background and you go back about 80-90 years there's Ghosts everywhere and little pictures of uncle whoever and whatever on the wall. And people saying mass for the departed, all this kind of stuff that is ancestor veneration it's just it doesn't look like those sort of marvelous spirit houses that you get in Southeast Asia so we've kinda fallen away from them when you find that its tremendously transformative over a long time bringing this back but he was such as good luck here

45:00 It's something about the reconnection with your family and the spirit world that I kind of put it in and out of the book because they didn't want to push anything that resembled like, here is what I believe on people. Because it's not what I do but this one had to stay in because if technically falls under luck magic in a book like this please don't sort reconnect with your ancestors and buy a lottery ticket. You can't use it to get lucky at something, but you'll see you'll get better traffic. You'll have those kind of benign coincidences that make the universe taste better." And I kind of looked when I was compiling the book and went right so I need stuff about this and stuff about that and stuff about this and I'm obviously going to need to talk about after I've talked about probability we're gonna need to talk about luck magic! And there are spells in the back for them

45:53 If i spoke to the editor about it, i'm like if I'm honest this has been the thing that's kind of improved my background quote-unquote luck. Amongst other things more than anything else so i'm very happy it's in there. It's interesting outside of ancestors you also do get very detailed about the actual rituals and which entities can be helpful in success magic talk to us about some of those entities that come to mind that are ancestors Well, I mean staying in the same chapter there are a number of different ways of kind of either connecting or improving your relationship with the spirit world. So we have sort of Hermanibus invocations and Hermanibus speaking of that kind of Greco-Roman world is one of my favorite

46:44 things to come out of it. It's a combination, as you can kind of tell from the name, of the Greek Hermes and Egyptian Anubis. So Hermes is the messenger of God's role. He is also called Hermes Chthonios so he's a psychopomp in the sense that he can, in some forms take people who have died into the afterlife. So he's one of those crossing Between life and death figures it's always been like the actual word homies probably came from. The name for a little pile of stones that uses it was used as a border marker in our case so it's about that border between this world and the next new business course be jackal headed god of what we say got a mother.

47:30 It's a woeful oversimplification. Crowley describes him quite well in his book of thought about the moon can't because he has Anubis there and Anubis has a few Egyptian and then later Greek titles to talk like called way opener or opener of the way so when in the Greco-Roman world they're very interested in kind of plugging their gods together like Lego, and if things matched other things that kinda smushed them This this disease and kind of polyglot cosmology kinda chaos magic in a way. Yeah, well absolutely. And my favorite one is Hermanibus because it's a combination of the... I have quite good thing going with Hermes anyway for some reason the God of Thieves favors Australians no idea why and so I kind of pulled some of them and modified some of their rituals from the Greek magical papyri or at least invocations because Hermanibus has worked quite well. What's interesting about that is that

48:30 is the persistence of dog-headed gods into early Europe and in fact, into quite late Europe. So you have some of the more famous saints even Saint Christopher was dog headed and right up until this sort of end of the medieval age and Northern Europe a bit later, the outside of some towns would have dog headed St. Christopher's because obviously he's the guardian of travelers and so on. So even sort of 2000 years later or less than 1200 years later this form is still with us right there on the border again, with wayfarers. So it's a bit of an experiment but there's a way of deepening or pulling back into the modern world some of that Western magical current which we didn't really realize was there that whole time so that one I think is quite good There's also one of my favorite saints St Nicholas of Tolentino and you'll find him in there as well

49:27 But in terms of, I'm kind of a bit... it can get risky looking for you're kind of barking up the wrong tree or going down the wrong track. I shouldn't use the barking thing after all that dog talk if you are trying to find the spirit or God responsible for success or financial wealth and there's a long running joke amongst grimoire magicians about one of the spirits called Boone, which everyone... because it does say in Boone's description that these are the things he is good at. So people buy these grimoires and it's straight to Boone and their life doesn't change. And Chaos Protocols hopefully deals with some of the structure underneath

50:07 that because I'm not sure if your kind of spiritual journey should align with your interest in going on a backpacking holiday in Southeast Asia. These two things may overlap but it gets messy when they get combined. There are spirits in there that people probably haven't considered for success and optionality reasons, and that's why I wrote the book. But there is a similar risk to using science to explain religion – to go looking for a quote-unquote God of wealth When we make up kind of our own personal cosmology of entities that we resonate with obviously, we can do some reading and pick out gods and beings in spirits. We like but you say things in the book like

50:55 tricksters are typically found at a crossroads so look there first and that's just some more kind of active approach to creating that role of x event it is the call on talk to us about the process of creating our cosmology and you know forging relationships with these kinda entities what show. The tricks appears to be structural structure in the universe and instructional in how we construct our maps of the universe. So there's George Hansen's fantastic book, The Trickster and the Paranormal. You also find across literally every kind of cultural or spiritual system a trickster role so you find them in First Nations cultures, you obviously have Loki in the North, you have Seth in Egypt now the trickster for Western Europe

51:53 for the last 1500 years is the devil. This is, if we look at the role of the devil and I don't mean like the kind of frothing bible thumping flyover CAA funded millennial church nonsense that just it's not even Christianity at this point. If you look at European folk culture The devil is in some kind of dualistic crazy war with God for your soul because you played D&D or masturbated. The devil kinda does annoying tricks to things, like Bugs Bunny basically at some point he gives cattle ringworm or something odd now when you look at how this form moved into how Europeans saw the world the devil got his power by being the oldest thing on earth. The devil was created before the earth

52:41 So the fact that the devil is intimately involved with mankind, if you are a Spanish... If you're an illiterate Spanish grandmother 500 years ago and you need something earthly. The person who or the being go to is the devil, the being you go to is the one that has been here and was set by God to kind of be the boss in this realm. Like that's not a misreading of her priest on Sunday. She's not actually being anything other than Catholic by doing it so she's being risky but she's not being a devil worshipper

53:19 We find that this particular incident from the 20th century onwards, the devil in Hoodoo and the Southern states particularly hybridized with some of the – probably a bit of First Nations beings but certainly some of the gatekeeping beings that came over from West African cosmologies. So there, you know, you have famous stories of jazz musicians and so on meeting the devil at the crossroads and suddenly being very good a guitar. So Robert Johnson is one of these. He then subsequently died a few years later now we look at it in and we kind of need to unpick a lot of racism flat out in that Robert Johnson may have called this thing The Devil but he was practicing African magic right?

54:04 And we've had this whole thing that, you know, it's devil worship and whatever. And I mean, you're not scared of the devil! You're scared of the skin color don't give me that which is pathetic because we have, you know us white people have the same thing in our own folk magic and Grimloin traditions. We've sanitized the trickster out because we think unpredictability equals failure this is a thing where were kind of built for that boomer life even though we don't want it we still gravitate to it because humans don't like the anxiety of unpredictability even though that's where all success

54:39 and all learning and all growth comes from. So if you do not have a trickster in your own personal cosmology, I'm not saying everyone go be devil worshiper or anything, I'm not even my goodness. If you don't make space in how you view the world for trickster functionality you have a lopsided view of the universe for start, but also you're potentially missing based on what we now know about probability and so on. You're potentially missing where the upside comes from especially in 2016 and moving forward. The unpredictability... We have teenage billionaires in one side of the world than we have entire country and entire collapsed cities on the other this is not a normal unpredictable world this is a world that has

55:26 The magician then is – it kind of falls to him or her to try and get the magicians align with that in some way. And so the book goes into tremendous detail about, well not tremendous detail, that makes it sound boring! It goes into some detail about the justification for having a trickster component and then it provides suggestions for how that might work in a Western magical sense to do with essentially a sort of crossroad engagement with the devil. Most of it is largely drawn again on Greco-Roman practice. It's actually very similar to how you would attract

56:03 Hecate's blessing or interest, the sort of going to the crossroad and leaving things and never looking back. And all that kind of stuff is Hecatean rather than devilish but that form survives into shall we say low grimoire magic? So the book goes into how you do that. I know we're running a little long here but a couple other things I wanted to bring up something I wanted to ask you about in terms of assessing the landscape that's coming. It comes from a comment you made on a RuneSoup podcast episode with Chris Knowles, of course the RuneSoup podcast is becoming a personal favorite everyone should check it out but in that episode you guys talk about The Elite and The Shadow State and the idea we've explored that physics and science have been left with only half the puzzle because of the empowering implications of things like Tesla Tech and all that kind of stuff but there's

56:58 very little left to explore at this point without unlocking some of those doors. And you've identified some possible clues that they might be planning to finally let this genie out-of-the box, so to speak. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Well, yeah. Firstly because they said they're going to I mean we've had about four or five different countries and organizations announce fusion and cold fusion We also have NASA's hyperdrive which violates their own official laws of physics because it does and it's going to work And so we have these pieces the other one that I think is interesting is The Rockefeller Trust exiting hydrocarbon six months before we essentially got

57:41 Wall Street, the State Department told Wall Street to crash oil and to crush Putin. Which didn't work he saw it coming years out doesn't matter so but they wouldn't do that they wouldn't sort of leave these assets if it was going to bounce back up and all these other pieces are coming through like Elon Musk's new battery and everyone is talking about fusion tech and hyperdrive we have people like Dr Paul LaViolette who our actual, you know proper science people who've done these experiments and go well this works and this works. I don't know what it is it's interesting to me that torsion works and I really enjoyed your Electric Universe episodes because there was something in that spectrum of again we come back to like the data and interpretation thing so the Tesla thing was interesting enough and we have directed energy weapons which appears to be a version of that

58:39 So there is a kind of energy or ether physics that is toroidal, I think they've been around for about 50 years and it's time the toys are coming out. Probably because we don't need... It's tied up with the rise of pushing us into digital currency The US dollar has had de facto oil backing since the end of the war basically Well since we came off the gold standard right? I think when we have this global digital SDR We don't need the oil anymore. I think that's built and i actually think given all the talk about all this sort of monstrous hysterical climate change stuff like Islamophobia causes climate change, really dialing up the fucking moron speak on this...I think the SDR drawdown will be based on compliance with some sort of carbon emissions and it's sort of way you can keep China and India down

59:37 and sort of post-industrial countries like Europe and the US up. Because it's much easier for us to kind of run to carbon laws, so we get X amount of SDRs and from that we can create this currency because I'm sort of briefly... Well, I know Catherine Elston Fitz was saying before she thinks its food and now it isn't. I think its this, if you look at these kinds of push through agreements And stuff that, I mean...I'm sure carbon dioxide has some sort of effect but it's now like they're saying Islamophobia causes climate change or climate change causes Islamophobia and this is not science. This is more of that dialing up the morons speak. So I think that's why. It's ready for the global digital currency. I think it's almost ready for its close-up and it begins with a kind of SDR in the background

1:00:32 So yeah, we don't need the oil. We've already used the cool weapons I suspect we're already using at the cool propulsion engines off planet and from an oil perspective that's not really coming back it doesn't need its use anymore. And also we're going to go in hopefully Collapse our friends and allies or let them collapse. Hopefully very soon Yeah, I just thought that opened up a level of clarity for me because as soon as they take all their assets out Of oil you know they could roll out something new for us and then penalize The rest of the world for using the very energy sources that were the elites bread-and-butter For decades kind of forcing them to move into the new stuff yeah climate change

1:01:21 Whether it exists or not is imperial policy. It's as simple as that and that's why I mean China has a serious pollution problem, let me be clear and they're aware of it but neither does Russia they're not going anywhere near this climate change crap because we built the greatest economies ever using this stuff And now you can't have any. We're going to charge you even use it yeah this is how it gets played like that this game isn't in the world that's not built for us we need to be aware of it not so we can change it let's not be so infantile as to think we can run to the principal's office and get this fixed just know how it works the more we understand about how this moves around becomes

1:02:14 strategic intelligence for us to live our best lives. Yeah, amen! And I also wanted to ask you do you see something like the Trans-Pacific Partnership relating to this in any way? Yeah absolutely so it's the build out of their legal infrastructure that allows a sort of paternal imperialism giving rivers to Nestle and all this kind of stuff Basically, this is there at the end of their endgame. Even if they manage to get it across the Western world it's obviously not going to work in Eurasia and I don't think its gonna work that well here It has a fortunate potential built into the universe that The Tower of Babel never makes it to heaven

1:03:02 They will always try. And that's almost Gnostic in a way, but yes this is absolutely the climate change hysteria and it is not like if you just read them, if you read the most recent climate change articles its seriously stuff like causes Islamophobia or Islamophobias causing it and this building up of narrative that goes along with the kind of super national treaties that are essentially harvesting the real assets that are now useful and things like fresh water is useful, oil less so. But the good news is there's as... The good news in that absolute clusterfuck

1:03:50 is to do this again coming back to that opening up of new platforms and you markets there will be opportunities for people who can see this. Happening yeah get out in front of it or get to the side of if you know that, that's going to be the case i don't mean go invest in halibut that kind of stuff because I think people, I think that eats away at your soul a bit but these investments are going to be made and they're gonna be made with your money because it's tax money. So get out in front of it and get some of it back. Yeah and I'm kinda living proof for that because I don't think GameStop if I was gonna be a store manager there forever If I was gonna be scared into the traditional path...I don't think Gamestop is going to be there in five six seven years

1:04:34 That's a whole other thing. To throw one more log on that fire, off the air you've told me about some corporation that doesn't have a website that the Rockefellers are invested in? I think they're a cold fusion company? When we say alternative energy, we usually mean permaculture wind farms It's called Tri Alpha, doesn't have a website. It's based in California. Interesting name! Well this is why I mention it so it's got the tri at the beginning of and alpha is interesting so its you know new beginning for this. Doesn't have a website has some other most famous sort of energy physicists or theoretical ones attached to it as Rockefeller Trust funding entirely opaque no idea what they're doing and this is happening

1:05:22 at the same time as we're hearing the Germans and Japanese and MIT, everyone saying where we've got cold fusion or a little bit away from it. And it's that classic ritual thing they do of course is called tri-alpha like try dash alpha this is their you know waving their little waving their dick just in the corner hello! Exactly yeah so I thats all I have for that but the idea that this stuff can't move in the dark is moronic it can and that's an example you find a wikipedia page i believe how many of them don't have wikipedia pages yeah i find that just so fast and why we could touch on but

1:06:04 That really does about do it for us. I know we're close to the finish line, but i do love this book and validate some of the choices i've made in the past 10 years and that helps me with where to go from here because the high optionality life that i've been lucky to achieve with THC sort of scares me back into traditional patterns because its hard to lose what you don't have but when you do have something risk starts to seem scarier maybe it's been too long since i did mushrooms or something you know? Well also we dont know So your focus was on making this a success. And once you're there, that was the dream right? Like I want to make this a success so you didn't actually necessarily dream what the next step was. You may have daydreamed in that kind of absurd like I'm on a boat sense but no one ever thinks about what happens because it will happen if people kind of sort of absorb some of the ideas in the book

1:06:56 So you haven't thought about what the great version of The Next Step is, so you have fallen into. Oh I guess they get a house now and it's just the programming. Think about what you actually want Well said, man. And you know I of course I got to let you go sometime my ancestral offerings aren't going to change out themselves but You are the man and part of my job is recommending books But this goes beyond that i would say that if you're feeling stuck or trapped Or looking for the guidance To change it up I have found no better guide Anything else you want to mention before we go obviously twitter Is your main hang

1:07:34 at Gordon underscore white and runesoup.com is your blog, is there anything else to say? Yeah those are the places There's a Runesoup Facebook page as well which if people don't really do the Twitter thing they can find me there. Boom dude alright i'm sad that it's over but this was great until next time take care of yourself all right my man you as well cool all right people how'd you like that I loved it Gordon is always good to have but the chaos protocols is such a great book if your lacking for road map in these troubled times its definitely the book to get, it's funny and an informative read

1:08:10 You can't go wrong. And I guess today, I did pat myself on the back a little too much and I am sorry if that got annoying but it's just a good feeling to have a book like this back up some of my wild decision making and it is a relief to now have an easy thing to hand someone when they don't understand what I do for a living or why its smart idea It's the next Christmas present for half my extended family let's just make it easy guys And Gordon lays out some of the magic that he's had good results with and who couldn't use that reference on their shelf, you know? But when you think of magic as less mysterious and more of a flowery word for the mechanisms in which consciousness interacts with the material world.

1:08:52 People who find it evil or wrong start to sound pretty goofy because it's as natural as hearing, or speech in a way. It's just a tool of interaction with the world and what's beyond it and in times like these would be who have anyone to explore and fine tune all the tools they have And the plus show is largely about that and this is a great plus show to have. We got deeper into the details of Gordon's magical recommendations, how to find the right crossroads at which to forge your relationship with the trickster of your choice and a lot of other deep level stuff in fact when we talked about the Trans-Pacific Partnership and some of the major events going on geopolitically as indicators that The Elite are, as Gordon called it, at the end of their endgame

1:09:37 That really should have been in the Plus show, but I couldn't do that. I really wanted to get it out there because i just think he's got a better approach to analyzing the playbook than just saying oh disclosure is coming out of guessing or blind optimism He's looking at something like the TPP and the carbon tax schemes and giving you reasons why this is happening And where it may be going Don't you wish more guests and social commentators were just half as thoughtful? But being bold and becoming invincible, another good section. That sometimes scary rite of passage that really should be more celebrated than some arbitrary bar mitzvah or confirmation or baptism... I mean these are all empty hollowed out versions of an experience that i do think we all need to have and very few are actually out there recommending

1:10:27 And I never thought of my early psychedelic breakthroughs as the acclimation of armor on the path to invincibility, but really they were. And i'm lucky also to have an encouraging partner, My Special Lady Teresa Has talked me into several things i initially said no to for one reason or another like the don peyote bus tour i was gonna pass until she grilled me on what a random opportunity it was. And of course it was great but i just tend to say now am alright, a little more than i probably should and how is the magic supposed to work with that attitude?

1:11:02 You wish and chant for interesting opportunities, and when they come up you gotta say yes. I mean have you seen Yes Man with Jim Carrey? Great great movie that really drives that point home but do what you can to say yes your own opportunities the hard part is having them come your way all you got to do is go with it And also encourage others who care about dive into their opportunities there's no glory in the cubicle people none But even I fail to take my own advice sometimes. There's this festival here in California called Lightning In A Bottle, it's a pretty big thing and shockingly they asked me to speak and of course i said no because I'd rather sit in my bunker and talk into the microphone where it's safe but I could have done that! And I looked at the roster and my main man Marty Leeds he's gonna be there probably would have been fun but I was too afraid of bombing

1:11:55 So nobody's perfect it is a process and speaking of marty he just released a movie that sort of announced his acceptance of the flat earth model can you believe that. I'm gonna have to get him on the talk about that i'm pretty surprised by love the guys so we'll have to see what's up, hi told you i thought it pointed out some glaring inconsistencies with what we've been told but anyway Great stuff. Gordon White really is the man, do check out his RuneSoup podcast, do pick up the book Forging Your Own Path in an Unfamiliar Economic Landscape Is Scary No Doubt might as well have a guidebook to reference

1:12:31 But what more can I say? That is it for today. I've done what I can, your move elite architects of the economic endgame and sorcerers of the new system... Your fucking move. Callwood! It's your show now So what's it gonna be? Cause people will tune in to hear another new conspiracy Almost too much of We thought this was low, it's bad Getting worse so Where'd all the good people go? They're on the higher side chats cause it's everybody's favorite show Where'd all the good people go? He got your Mars gold and white and then there's crow

1:13:25 They talk this and that on the higher side Chat testing, one two now what you gonna do? Bad news misuse got too much to lose Give me some truth now who's side we on Whatever you say Turn on the boob tube I'm in a mood to obey So lead me astray By the way now Where'd all the good people go They locked him up it seems for protesting Monsanto Where'd all the good people go? They're on the THC, my favorite show Sitting down new episodes are here

1:14:14 Wanna light a bolt but I fear the police Can you hear me? Can't interrupt me from this friendly conversation Been waiting all week for THC With the car wood, there's no hesitation Exposing the truth getting to the elite Scams schemes conspiracies and treason It's an excellent show, what I need to know is Where'd all the good people go? Been only getting hate and fear from all the other hoes. Where'd all the good people go? Guess that makes THC my favorite show