Dr. Stephen Usher | An Introduction To Rudolf Steiner: Education, Health, Spirit, & More

00:00 Welcome to another free first hour episode of the Hireside Chats. I know we want to get into the action, but i have to ask that you help me armor us up a bit for the bumpy road ahead because I bring in the first hour of this show without unrelated ad nonsense as proof-of-concept and if you value it then come over to THC Plus for $8 a month and hear full two hours interviews as they were designed to be and as you would enjoy them most Go to thehiresideschats.com or just click the link in the show notes to get started and within a minute you'll be plugging in your new Plus Show RSS feed into a hopefully decentralized podcasting 2.0 supported app. Feed the things you want to grow and starve the things that gotta go, and we will reach the promised land! Think about that...and enjoy the show

00:54 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a- I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Here we go, Hiresight Chatters. From sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood and for the longest time i've noticed that whether I am in the mood to learn about spiritual beings growing food the nature of reality complex parts of mind unknown qualities of human body alternative forms of education aspects of earth or half a dozen other THC adjacent subjects Rudolf Steiner has had something deep profound and usually unique to say about it

01:48 And when I think about the people today that I admire most in many of these areas, the rogue alternative academics and counterculture scholars... They tend to admire Rudolf Steiner. Or at least reference him a great deal! And I like to follow the universe where it leads so it seems high time we took a look at the almost infinite range of provocative topics Rudolph Steiner has written and lectured about For those who don't know, Steiner who lived from 1861 to 1925 was an Austrian-born spiritualist, lecturer and founder of the Anthroposophy movement. Anthroposophy is an amalgam of the Greek terms anthropos meaning human and sophia meaning wisdom. Anthroposophical proponents aimed to extend a clarity of the scientific method to phenomena of human soul life and spiritual experiences

02:37 Steiner believed this required developing new faculties of objective spiritual perception, which he maintained was still possible for contemporary humans. The steps of this process of inner development he identified as consciously achieved through imagination, inspiration and intuition. Steiner believed results of this form of spiritual research should be expressed in a way that can be understood and evaluated on the same basis as the results of natural science He also hoped this type of spiritual movement would free the individual from any external authority. A notion I certainly would love to see come to fruition! His writings are about as diverse as you can imagine and his work exceeds over 300 volumes

03:20 And here to break it all down is one of the most qualified people I've ever been introduced to, Dr. Stephen Usher He is a PhD economist with expertise in money banking and financial markets who has also had a keen interest in studying Steiner's work for the last 50 years he ran The Anthroposophic Press from 1980-1988 and published 40 volumes of Steiner's work Anthroposophic Press is still around and marks one of the largest publishers of Steiner material still today, and can be explored at steinerbooks.presswarehouse.com I contacted them they put me in touch with Dr. Usher And here we are making the magic happen So let's get into it! An expert in economics a dedicated deep diver and Steiner scholar extraordinaire dr Stephen Usher welcome to The Higher Side

04:10 Well, thank you for the introduction and I'm looking forward to exploring Steiner with you. Yes! Thank you for doing this there are just so many aspects of Steiner's work that get mentioned here and there that i thought it would be best to really focus on his work for a full episode big thanks to John Scott Legg the current managing director of Anthroposophic Press for putting us in touch I like to think that I got a great crash course in Steiner getting ready for this, but even after a couple of weeks of revisiting things, I can tell that I really barely scratched the surface. To get into this, we don't need to go deep into his biography, but introduce him and his ideas to the unfamiliar so as to put him in proper context and describe what made him special? What would you say to people?

05:04 Steiner was, as you mentioned born in 1861 lived to 1925. Already as a child he had spiritual experiences He speaks of going into the forest and he lived in a forest in the Austrian Alps next to a railroad station because his father was the station master and he could see little beings and forms around plants And he discovered that the adult world didn't want to talk about those things. And that gave rise to an early search for what it really means to know anything. As he grew older, he started studying geometry and he said around the age of seven

05:55 that geometry gave him one of the greatest pleasures of his life because here was a topic that you could talk about, that you couldn't see. A geometric line is infinitely fine and so he realized there were some things that adults could speak about as he grew older He deepened his knowledge by the time he was 14. He was reading Kant's critique of pure reason a major philosophical work which talked about what it meant to know. About 18, he moved to Vienna where he was studying. He had to take a train and on the train he met an herb gatherer—back in that time people still gathered herbs in the forests and sold them at apothecaries—and this herb gatherer also could see the sort of things Steiner saw so he met somebody who he could talk

06:52 And that herb gatherer introduced the young Steiner, 18-year old person to a master is called in the biography. They don't talk too much about him but apparently about 1879 Steiner was initiated by this master And he understood that he had a task, and the task was to help modern humanity which had entered into a technical era to understand there was a spiritual reality. So he began that task 22 years of age, he was at a university in Vienna and was given the job of editing the scientific writings of Goethe. Now I don't know how many of you know that name but Goethe is sort of like The Newton and Shakespeare of Germany so they were bringing out the first definitive edition of Goethes works And the young twenty-two year old Steiner became the editor of the scientific part of that. I've actually got one of those volumes in my library

07:58 And then, in 1924 he writes his first philosophical work Theory of Knowledge Implicit in Goethe's World Conception where he starts to really talk about what it means to know things. Then his career skyrockets from there Does that help yes yes it does that's really great context and so usually with someone like steiner whose work is so vast there's typically an initial subject or idea or thread the person might pull that really starts, the journey for them and get some hooked do you remember what i was initially gripped u n pulled you in where you first had your mind blown we might say.

08:41 Well, I certainly do. I was a student at the University of Michigan and I was interested in consciousness. I was trying to get into biochemistry and figure out what memory was. And I took a course in Lagrangian mechanics—the mechanics of spinning tops and planetary motion And there was a very interesting teacher in that class. His name was Ernst Kotz, he was a solid state physicist and I got into a conversation with him one day at the time i was reading a book called Psychic Sciences Behind the Iron Curtain this was a popular work in the 70's and it explored the parapsychological research that the Soviet Union was doing

09:31 They were looking for telepathic spies who could tell whether people were true communists or just faking it. And so I had a conversation with Ernst Katz about this, and he listened to me for awhile then he said you know the trouble with that is it doesn't take morality into account And I sort of scratched my head, and you know, I was studying hard science and I thought morality was a purely human construct. And here's this physicist bringing up a topic like that." Then he said to me, well if you want to know where I am read a guy named Rudolf Steiner. Well at the same time I was reading another book called The Chakras. This is a book by an old theosophist Bishop Leadbeater

10:17 And that book has pictures of the chakras or lotus flowers, as they're called in the Eastern terminology. And I couldn't make any sense of it—I was very mathematically oriented and Ledbetter had these artistic renderings and descriptions—but I thought there was something there but what on earth was it? So a few days later I was wandering through a metaphysical bookstore and I pulled off a shelf a book by Rudolf Steiner And that book was called Initiation and Its Results, and it's the second half of what is now published as Knowledge of Higher Worlds and its Attainment. The first chapter in the second half is called The Chakras. So I thought aha! This is what this physicist pointed to me, and serendipitously it's exactly about this topic I've been wondering about

11:12 I started reading it and everything was light. Steiner said the chakras are organs to perceive higher worlds, they're higher sense organs and each one of them—the two-petaled chakra at the brow, the sixteen petal chakra at the throat, the twelve petal chakra at the heart etc., is there to perceive different types of phenomena —spiritual soul phenomena So, that absolutely got me going and I read Knowledge of Higher Worlds and other related books on how to develop one's own capacities. That's how I started.

11:51 Very cool and great reference with Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain. That is a book on my shelf as well It's really, really fascinating and right here on the cover it says The most important book about ESP research and the validity of the occult tradition yet to appear Says The Los Angeles Times so definitely one to check out for people interested in that stuff And for me the awareness of Steiner came from looking into just the general major figures of occult history and listening to long audio books about the higher realms and spirits.

12:30 That stuff really intrigued me, the way he talks about the human body health and blood. And then learning that the whole network of Waldorf schools are based on his work and that really seemed like a big deal and like something I would explore for my own children when that time comes Maybe we start with a little bit about Waldorf schools What makes them so different from conventional education? What are your thoughts on them Waldorf schools are based on Steiner's concepts of child development, the phases a child goes through as it grows up and matures. Now the concept of phases of development of a child is often associated with another scholar Piaget but Steiner was way before Piaget and you know if you look at how the Waldorf schools are organized

13:27 If you want to join the first grade, they have certain things they want to test. For example, have you changed a tooth? Has one of your milk teeth come out and a new one started in?" And Steiner said that is an indication that certain forces that are used to sculpt the physical body have completed some of their work, and the forces that were needed for that are now free to go into learning So, that's a key thing they look for. They also ask can the child stretch his arms out and cross them so that the hands cross indicating they have a sense for their own center and ego? That is sort of a beginning step for first grade readiness. Then to give you just a few other interesting bits he says the art of writing

14:24 is extremely detrimental to spiritual faculties. Of himself, he said he was fortunate that he couldn't properly spell and write until he was 15 years of age and he said that the process of writing is a mechanical thing that goes into your force system and blocks spiritual awareness And he points out that if you go back to ancient Egypt, you see that they wrote with what were called hieroglyphics. Now hieroglyphics are pictures—it's a pictorial language and Steiner wanted to introduce the children to their letters pictorially so for example in the first grade they go slowly and methodically through the whole alphabet teacher gets to the letter T

15:17 And instead of just writing a T on chalkboard, the teacher will likely draw a beautiful tree with colored chalks—two main branches stretching to the left and right—and slowly abstract from that picture to the abstract form of the T. This brings the letter from a pictorial world into the child's consciousness in a very delicate gradual way Another thing he pointed out about the letters is that if you take a little first grader and you write on the board M-O-M, and you say, That's Mom. Well, the little kid thinks what on earth are they talking about? Mom is this lovely lady—this warm lady who takes care of me. These are just chalk marks! And this is the abstraction that the child has to learn to live in

16:11 And so he wanted a way to introduce their feelings gradually into this process. So that's how they learn their letters, and he's taking account of where the child's consciousness is. This process goes on—there's an important change in the ninth year, another in the twelfth year care for what happens in puberty. The whole curriculum geared to these transformations of the child's physical soul being, and it's quite amazing the whole history curriculum does that, the English curriculum all of these things take these phases into account

16:53 That's why the education is so remarkable. Even if not every teacher is perfect, they're following that curriculum which has built into it an amazing insight into how a child grows and matures. Yeah I think that's really important because when you look at conventional public schools there's really no difference in the process from the early grades to the latter ones except for the scale of difficulty you could say but But in terms of what they actually do day to day, respond to a bell every hour or switch subjects compartmentalize things. There really is no difference between third grade and 12th grade and that's probably the wrong approach I guess i would ask if there's any real data comparing the development of Waldorf educated children to public school kids? Well there is some data it was

17:51 a study in The Lancet, quite interestingly about 1999. And this study compared the health of Waldorf kids to public school kids—I forget in what country—and they found I'm just reading a little here it's Lancet of May 1999 They found the rate of bronchial asthma, allergies, dermatitis and other atopic diseases significantly less among Waldorf school pupils compared to public school pupils. They recognized factors they called Steiner units—the more Steiner units you had the better the child came out. These included breastfeeding

18:38 Avoidance of childhood immunizations, a highly hot topic today. Avoidance of antibiotics and medicaments that reduce fever. Consumption of biodynamic and organic foods. They concluded that these kind of things contributed to the better health found in the Waldorf kids. Of course on other levels we know the Waldorf kids go out into the world very well adjusted, very creative They pursue often very unique careers, and you just have to poke around a bit and you'll discover just how remarkable they are. We've produced some movie stars—a lady who played in a show about nurses? Margulies I think is her name. Jennifer Aniston for awhile was a Waldorf kid

19:35 And of course, you know CEOs of companies all kinds of things like that. They're quite successful and as I said they just have to be very creative and very well socially adjusted Yeah, it seems like it. I recently watched a documentary about Waldorf education and there were some great lines in it from the people who run the school like truth is not a package It's a process and Education is not about filling a bucket It's about kindling of fire things I very much agree with they talked about those stages of childhood and catering education to meet children where they are that they progress through a movement stage to a feeling stage and then a thinking stage. And I definitely liked that, I think nuance is important in not one size fits all approach

20:30 And obviously not to get too deep into current events, but when we talked a few weeks back about this I had mentioned that when I read Steiner's work on health. I would think that schools that are built on his ideas would be places where they're not masking kids eight hours a day requiring a full schedule of vaccination or relying on digital learning because they keep the classroom low-tech another thing i appreciate But the Waldorf schools around me in Southern California seem no different in the last two years. There really hasn't been any resistance to the mandates coming from the top, and I always thought when the time came for me oh if I just go to a private school I could probably avoid a lot of things that I'd want to avoid for my kids and...I don't know it just doesn't seem to be the case although you were telling about some resistance in Austin right?

21:26 Yes, you know it's been for serious students of Steiner like myself a great disappointment that the schools pretty much rolled over under the tremendous pressure of the government. Right? I mean California particularly onerous right don't they have a vaccine mandate that's almost ironclad You just can't get out of it and the schools are pressured you know They also tend to look for skilled administrators, and they often take that skill over knowledge of Steiner in Anthroposophy. So it has been disappointing. In Austin there's something we call the Free School which is basically a co-op where a bunch of parents band together educating their own kids and then building something like a school around that co-op. I gather one is in California as well

22:24 And one of the things we're learning about is called the private membership association. This is something that has existed in the American tradition for a long, long time based on our constitutional right to contract and we learned about it here in Texas because some of our people recalled that in dry counties in Texas—Texas counties where you're not allowed to consume alcohol There were restaurants that you could enter, and a number of the guests would be drinking alcoholic beverages. If you ordered one they say sorry, you can't have one. How come I can't have one? Well, you're not a member of the private membership association and these private membership associations can be formed And within that membership association You are free of the public sphere The public authorities have nothing to say to you

23:24 and within it you can do all manner of things. These clubs were set up so they could drink in restaurants, and we learned that many health practitioners use this form and also educators and churches. And if you set the thing upright—it's a membership group everybody has to be a member—they agree to the rules, and now it's basically the same freedom you have at your family dinner table It's not the business of the state to interfere there. And so apparently it is possible to set up private educational associations, and then everybody involved—every parent is a member—and they're there for the purpose of educating their child. Within that context as far I've been able to understand, the state is not allowed to interfere? Well we'll find out. There's one setup in California now

24:21 through fifth grade, and we're working on it in Austin. These things for millennia were—well not millennia but for 100 years—were used by churches and apparently the churches back in 1954 and earlier were set up as a 508C1A. And in 54' the government tried to convince and did convince many churches to become 501C3 charitable organizations The churches stepped into that status, thinking it would be better for their fundraising and so forth. Not realizing that in that status the government could regulate them. You probably remember as the pandemic spread many churches were told you cannot operate its too dangerous

25:10 But if you had that old form, the 508C1A it's my understanding that you could continue to operate because you were in the private sphere. So that's an interesting thing I'm currently exploring—I'm not 100% sure of it but it is rather intriguing." Yes! That IS very interesting and I've gotten this sense Maybe that's the direction things will go that there will just be two americas because as were firing these experts and professionals in a lot of different sectors, because they don't wanna get these shots.

25:51 they are gonna have to find something to do, they're gonna have to find some source of income and I think in a lot of cases that will mean starting something new. And the people who are of alike mind with them are going to be their customers, their clients we're experiencing the same thing looking for a pediatrician here in San Diego We found one that kind of operates outside of the system and that's kinda fine to me and my wife we don't need you to be associated with particular hospital as long as you have the education and are on the same page is us and i think there's gonna be a lot of rogue gorilla style.

26:31 career paths i guess i would say for people that wanna be outside of this mainstream thing and there will be consequences and limitations probably to that but it also gives me hope, that people who might think as I do are not gonna be completely without resources will be using things like what you're talking about. And I think thats probably a silver lining in all this Already, I gather many health professionals—chiropractors, acupuncturists that sort of thing, homeopaths use these private medical associations. It's been around for quite some time it's just likely to explode now as people look for ways to continue to operate freely

27:22 in a world which is ever more regulated and controlled by, well profit motives of certain corporations. Yeah i'm with you and we have had so many interviews lately about health and masks an all the rest of that don't really wanna go too far down that road but i did want to give people a little anecdote, about the free school and just this silver lining that some of these new things do seem to be emerging for them. But on the subject of health, I also wanted to ask you about Steiner's views on blood and the heart. I listened to him lecture on blood a few years ago and it stuck with me because he talked about blood being the glue between the physical and spiritual self

28:09 that you can't really study blood in the body and that out of the body when it hits the air and is put under a microscope, it's not really the same thing as what it was. Those ideas coupled with the notion we have the heart completely wrong—that it's not a pump but more like hydraulic ram—I find these things interesting. Could you elaborate on Steiner's thoughts on these areas? Well, let's talk about the heart for a minute. An anthroposophic scientist named Branko Forst has come out with an absolutely spectacular book called The Heart and Circulation, an integrative model, second edition Springer-Ferrelag, and he goes through the most exhaustive demonstration that the heart is not a pump

29:03 that it's something quite different. This is a major, major study. It's likely to be a significant reference going forward for anybody who really wants to understand the heart. It's so deep and complicated I could not even hardly touch what it's about other than showing that the circulation comes out of the periphery. The heart is more a sense organ sensing the condition and state of the blood in the body And, of course you're right. Steiner says looking at blood in a test tube is not the same thing as the blood as it's pulsing through the body. He sees the blood as the carrier of the human ego—the warmth in the blood is where our ego consciousness works. It's a vast subject

29:54 I don't feel particularly qualified to say much about it. I can also tell you that anthroposophic medicine in general is a phenomenally developed field, there's a man named Matthias Gierke who has published a book called Internal Medicine It's available from Salumed, and it is not too easy to get. You have to find that publisher and contact them but this is a major medical text You know, I'm talking a thousand pages references to thousands of refereed medical journals but totally integrating Steiner's terminology of physical body, ether body, astral body ego and the vast number of Steiner pictures of how to help different illnesses. The many medicines he created

30:55 As you perhaps know, there are pharmaceuticals now dedicated to making Steiner's medicines. And this man Gierke who is now the head of the Anthroposophical Society in Switzerland helped create a major hospital in Berlin—the Berlin Anthroposophic Hospital which is a hospital with emergency rooms the whole nine yards strictly devoted to Steiners' approach to medicine So, in Europe this is a very major thing. And if you get the chance to look at Gierke's book I think you'll be in awe of the scope—I mean huge chapters on cancer, diabetes all forms of illness how you treat them from an anthroposophic point-of-view hundreds upon hundreds of different recommendations and extraordinary things. Of course this is a textbook for medical doctors on internal medicine.

31:51 Very cool and i hope to see anthroposophic medicine growing across america i just find that to be so interesting the idea that blood is unknowable our system are scientific community it's so arrogant that knows everything about everything. And just a simple substance like blood i've also talked to people about water there's so many mysterious qualities of water that we don't understand but what in water two of them most, ubiquitous and important substances, liquids on the planet really. And Steiner makes this point you can't even study blood the way you're trying to and I just really that resonated with me in a big way. And i guess i would ask in terms of anthroposophic medicine as a field how were steiners medicines different?

32:44 Quoted as saying, for every ailment there is an herb somewhere on the planet that can fix it. I've talked to people about Spagyrix which is like the alchemy of herbs and they definitely factor in the spirit and soul of a particular plant or herb and that seems very Steiner-esque What can you say about how he would formulate medicines or recommend medicines to be formulated compared to Big Pharma? Well, Steiner of course had the ability to clairvoyantly enter into the mineral world, the plant world and animal world. He could perceive things in different plants connected with the evolutionary path of human body. Digitalis for example he connected with the heart

33:40 And also, he could see the working of what's called the elemental world. So there are unseeable to the human senses beings behind the backdrop of nature working in plants and soil and also in our organisms. He could see how certain substances would affect that so he didn't have to just sort of make random experiments—he could actually perceive And out of his abilities, he formulated a series of remedies called the Dorons. A doron means gift in Greek so there's cardiodoron which is gift to the heart which if I recollect correctly is composed of the onopordon thistle, the cow slip and

34:33 Henbane. So these are three plants, very differently constituted and if you read his descriptions he explains how each of those components can help the heart so Cardiodoron a gift to the heart is an excellent remedy, either as an occasional tonic or for hearts that are really in need. It's a Rx medicine in the U.S., and Europe you can buy it over-the-counter so that was one of them he had hepataduron which is gift to the liver what does it composed up its composed of strawberry leaves and grape leaves both bitter and Steiner said

35:17 The liver likes bitter. You help the liver with bitter, likewise you help the kidney with sour. That's why a non-sweetened cranberry juice can be good for your kidney. So there is a kidney remedy I think it's renodoran it's for quite specific forms of kidney problems. There's numidoran for the lungs Pertiduron, another lung remedy to help you cough. So there's a whole series of these Duran remedies and Steiner wished those remedies could be given to the sick person because the sick person paying money for their remedy is counteractive to the healing process. It doesn't mean the remedy shouldn't be paid for it just means that the sick person shouldn't be paying for it so thats one whole series of his remedies

36:14 Another thing he did, which is pretty unique is work with the metals. The planetary metals—silver, the moon metal and then you have copper for Venus and he uses antimony for Mercury, gold, the sun Jupiter is iron—no, sorry. Mars is iron, Jupiter is tin and Saturn is lead." And if you go back to olden times people had a way of associating the planets with the organs and so there are preparations of metals for the organs sometimes combined with plant substances. There's one

36:59 It's a combination of silver and bryophyllum. And if I recollect it correctly, the bryophyllum directs the silver to a particular organ. So these metal remedies...and then a subclass of that is he wanted the pharmacist to take say, silver and make it into a potentized solution and to water certain plants with it. So the plant would take up a homeopathic preparation of a particular metal that plant would then be harvested an made into compost

37:34 And the same plant now grown on the compost of that harvested plant with more fresh silver. And, of course, you know he does chamomile and copper a number of these so these are the homeopathically watered plants. So you have a plant which has taken up the metal in this special way. There's several categories of his medicinal work—the Dorons, plants that are watered with homeopathic metals. So those are great remedies if you go to Gierke's book, you'll see how they're used as internal medicine and then of course there is Iskador the mistletoe preparation for tumorous cancer

38:21 Mistletoe, you might know is a parasite. It grows on trees it has no natural rhythm it blooms and blossoms at any time of year completely out of season and Steiner said this indicates that its a plant that has come from the past isn't quite in the present And then he speaks about how to use it in the treatment of cancer. That's the Iskador preparation, so those are a few thoughts on his medicaments. Wow wow yeah that's a great summary of sorts And Steiner's abilities as a seer are really interesting to me. It seems like this innate ability he always had, but also cultivated it further and deeper I'm curious if your study of Steiner has helped you develop your own ability to see or sense these unseen realms or spirits or elementals Or are those things just aspects you take his word on?

39:22 Well, I have personally been very interested in the path of development of one's faculties and have worked with it regularly since I started studying Steiner. What you learn is that by doing that your ability to comprehend Steiner grows, your mind becomes more flexible and able. You also come to understand what a monumental thing it is to awaken that level of seership, I mean the level that Steiner had. As you mentioned he was born with capacities and its also interesting to note that as he went on to explain these things he said there are old atavistic capacities which have almost completely disappeared from humanity

40:22 And he says, if you go back in time—particularly if you go back before what's known as the Flood. Before the Flood, Steiner says was another era of Atlantis — this by the way was something known to the Greeks and Egyptians I think it is in the Timaeus by Plato they speak of Atlantis being beyond the pillars of Hercules The pillars of Hercules are the Straits of Gibraltar, and what Steiner argues is that Atlantis occupied the whole bed of the Atlantic Ocean.

41:03 And that was possible because the flood represented a change in the parameters of physics through which the relative densities of water and air changed. Before that change, the water was lighter, the air heavier and the whole atmosphere filled with mist So Atlantis was a land of mists. It was talked about by the German sagas, the Nibelungenlieds—they mean the songs of the lands of mist—and in those poems which you can still get there were these initiated heroes, the Sig Heroes. When I try to explain the existence of Atlantis to people who are skeptical

41:51 I point them to the discovery of the largest pterodactyl bird in history, in Big Bend Texas in the 70s. This bird had a 39-foot wingspan, and aeronautical engineers said there's a problem. He couldn't fly! Well if he couldn't fly what was he using a 39 foot wingspan for? And then I met a physical chemist who calculated that if the atmosphere had been 4.2 times denser this bird that has been named Quetzalcoatl could fly which seems to back up what Steiner told us

42:28 In any case, in Atlantis Steiner said most people were clairvoyant. And their clairvoyance was based on the fact that half of the petals of each of their lotus flowers were active and this enabled them to experience the spiritual world and spiritual beings but in a state of very diminished self-consciousness And the loss of the old clairvoyance was to give us the possibility to become self-conscious ego beings. We've now accomplished that, and Steiner says it's therefore time to reawaken the clairvoyance and maintain the new ego consciousness."

43:08 And what he says is that if you do the esoteric exercises, you will slowly bring the other half of the lotus flower into functioning—the part that had never opened. When it opens, the other part will be given to you also and you will become clairvoyant." That in a nutshell was what the exercises are about But as you work at it, you realize just how hard a task it is. And it's not an abstract task—it's something that takes hold of your whole soul and your being, and it takes you down into all the chambers of your soul, into all the things buried there that a psychologist would say well, you have to wake up to

43:58 You go through traumas, but the problem is much deeper than what you've gone through in this lifetime. It has to do with everything embedded within the deeper layers of your being from your past incarnations—your karma! And so as you work at these things, you start pulling your karma towards you and that slows you down gives you all manner of difficulties but you go on a journey of self-development And as you work at that, you begin to appreciate yes this thing is possible but to reach a level like Steiner is extraordinarily difficult. He was so advanced it's really hard almost to comprehend it.

44:41 author, Sergei O. Prokofiev who was the grandson of the famous Russian composer wrote several books on Steiner and who he was how you could understand his stature and as you come to comprehend that you realize you're looking at a absolute titan of higher sight in that It's probably unrealistic to think you're going to get where he got. But if you work at it, you come to have certain experiences which allow you to say yes this thing is true and become more humble about how far you might achieve in a given lifetime So that I guess is the long-winded answer to your question No its great! I do love this kind of stuff but...it just seems

45:30 almost impossible to really take that path of inner work and karmic work to its fullest degree, and also meet the demands of modern society and a part of me is like well maybe thats by design so that there's so many distractions in obligations that nobody can really fully take that journey but it seems more important things kinda what were. design to do to a degree but no one is really doing it's like very very rare to find someone who really is dedicated too. That path and they become the spiritual gurus and leaders that their energy there impacts extends far beyond their physical life because they are just so rare, it just seems tough it's probably harder today than ever to really dedicate yourself to that when you say

46:25 Well, you know Steiner says that there are three paths to higher worlds which are legitimate today. The oldest one is the path of yoga and he says that path probably is not available to most Westerners Why is that? Because in a true yogic path You need a true guru and you must basically pledge complete obedience to this guru. Perhaps you know the famous book, The Autobiography of a Yoga by Paramhansan Yoganandan—a classic description of the Oriental Path—and in that book

47:13 There is a story about a man seeking the immortal yoga Babaji, who according to the tradition lives in the Himalayas. And this man was searching through the peaks of the Himalayas, looking, looking to find this master. And finally after great travail he comes across the master and his troop of shilas in the heights of the Himalayas and he comes up to him and bows down and begs that he could become a pupil

47:49 And Babaji said, fine throw yourself off that cliff. And the man immediately ran throws himself off the cliff crashes down is broken and is essentially dead. The shilas go down they bring him up he's revived and Babaji says you have obeyed me you may become my pupil unfortunately the average American would say Off that cliff? We just don't obey like that we don't have it in us trained to say, I'm from Missouri. Give me the explanation! So the yogic path is very difficult for a Westerner—also because of the constitution of the bodies. The second path Steiner speaks about is the Christian path. This is the path of a monastic monk

48:38 or none, who can live in absolute silence. Take a vow of silence. Live in constant contemplation of certain meditative themes." And Steiner describes I believe in the back of his lectures on the Gospel of Saint John something of that path where you dedicate your soul to certain contemplations The first one is described this way You think about the fact that the plant is dependent on its existence to the mineral kingdom. You picture the plant bowing down to the mineral and saying, I am higher than you in evolution but i owe my existence to you

49:24 And then you picture the animal bowing down in like manner to the plant which feeds it, saying I am higher in the scale of being than you plant kingdom. Yet I owe my existence to you and so I bow down before you. Then a human being has to bow down to animal and plant and mineral kingdoms acknowledging though he's a higher creation that he couldn't exist without those kingdoms And then this leads to a contemplation of the famous scene in the New Testament where Christ washes the feet of his disciples. He says something like, though I am higher than each of you, I could not do my work—I could not fulfill my task without my apostles so he washes their feet

50:13 And Steiner says the Christian mystic begins in a way by meditating on that picture, and it creates a kind of mood in his soul. And that mood must not break He must carry it through the entire day, through his work in the garden, through whatever tasks he has in the monastery. Never for a moment allowing that mood to depart him and if he carries that long enough then he will have a kind of spiritual revelation. He will see a picture of Christ washing the feet and he will feel water lathing across His feet

50:52 He has achieved the first rung of the Christian path, and there are several more rungs each of which require that kind of monastic soul constitution. Which for most Westerners is totally impossible as you're running through subways and answering your smartphone, and dealing with the diapers and the cooking. All of these things are constant interruption so there's a third path it's called the Rosicrucian Path designed for the busy person And that he describes in the fifth chapter of Occult Science where there are certain meditations you can do in a few minutes during the day and then forget about them

51:34 And that path is doable, but it takes willpower. You have to be able to dedicate let's just say 10 minutes a day every day of your life to certain practices These practices are laid out in the fifth chapter of Steiner's book all called science They're laid out in the book knowledge of the higher worlds and its attainment In fact It's the first half of that book which actually gives you practices and another very useful book is called guidance in esoteric training. So there is a path for the busy person, but admittedly you have to find the strength to put aside 10 minutes a day. I know of people who wake up in the morning and do these practices in bed before their children can come and bother them and so forth—10 minutes! That's about what it takes every day if you work at that for a lifetime then you will make progress

52:30 And you'll come to appreciate that it is progress, perhaps not as much as you'd hoped when you began. But nonetheless, you start being able to observe certain things. So that's my answer to that question—it's Steiner's answer the Rosicrucian path is there for the modern busy person living in our civilization Excellent. That is a great summary of all three paths and it makes a lot of sense that there needs to be something there for the busy person because we're kind of all busy these days And to get further into the dynamics and relationships between the physical realm and the spiritual, I was listening to a Steiner lecture on this part of a collection called An Esoteric Cosmology. He laid out a relationship between spirits thoughts and people where just to read some of my notes here

53:23 The content of the human soul is rich and diverse. A thought occupies a place in our soul, a clairvoyant can demonstrate how a current comes from a thought and seeks out a being in the astral realm, streams continually flow to the most diverse beings of the astral world We spin the most diverse threads connecting us to the most diverse beings of the astral world. Humans with similar thoughts and feelings could establish a connection to the same being in the astral world, When the people of a collective nation think about a concept like justice in the same way, they all have a connection to a particular being in the astral realm. This being is constituted of the concept of justice—it lives within it and there are astral beings for all concepts and ideas

54:16 Is this a dynamic that resonates with you as well? I find it pretty interesting, but I don't really know how to make a ton of sense of it or how accurate is. It certainly sounds like things I have read in Steiner where he's picturing the astral embodiment of spiritual ideas and the connection soul forms with those ideas by living with and entertaining the thought It's not so difficult to understand that a person whose thought life is completely preoccupied, let's say with making money succeeding having possessions thinking about nothing but technology and so forth

55:06 you know, is quite a different person than someone who spends a lot of time thinking let's just say about biodynamic agriculture the life of the soil the elemental beings and the nature of the human being within nature. Right? I mean, if you took two people and one of whom completely devoted their life to the idea of farming in a biodynamic wholesome way and the other completely dedicated to let's say high tech and making money You know, you'd have two very different experiences when you met those people So, you know in a way

55:45 It's not that we are what we eat, but we are what we think. And I believe there really are such beings and you know Steiner also says in his early philosophical writings that it is a basic thought of philosophy that when I think the idea triangle and you think the idea triangle, we're thinking the same idea. It's as if the eye of your mind can focus on the being of triangle and when two people do that they are looking at the same being." And this is a fundamental philosophical thought for him

56:33 And he takes it back to a debate of the Middle Ages between nominalism and realism. And as perhaps you know, the realists who surrounded Thomas Aquinas and Albertus Magnus argued that ideas were reality—they called them universals—and the opposing camp The nominalists said, no. Ideas are just names. They're categories we use to organize the

57:11 knowledge we have of outer nature, but they're just symbols with no intrinsic reality. And the realist said on the contrary the ideas are beings they are embodied in the visible perception of things and They are the real reality this goes back to Plato and his ideas and Steiner works it out in his philosophy of spiritual activity In this way he says There's a tendency for people to think that a rose is the real thing.

57:47 We know that if you plant a rose seed, it germinates. Out comes the sprout then it gets a little bigger with leaves thorns on the stem growing up bigger and bigger until a bud and a rose flower and a rose hip etc That's all perceptible thats real But then Steiner asks but what if I put a human being in front of that process Then, if he works with his thought the concept of Rose arises in his mind. And the full concept is that whole dynamic existence of Rose which goes from seed to shoot etc., that full dynamic concept you never see in the world at one time it's always in one condition and yet the totality is there

58:36 That is the universal idea of Rose, which makes the visible Rose possible. And so ideas are realities and the ideas that are there in the things of nature are separated, says Steiner from the object of perception by our own organization. Our organization is designed so that we get the perceptible part just by opening our eyes or ears and listening But the concept we have to work for, we have to use our thinking capacity and when we link the concept with the percept then we have knowledge. So that's where all this begins but then he takes us to the point where those ideas, those universals are actually beings and that indeed in the spiritual world after were dead the human being is an idea among idea beings and interacts with them

59:33 So it's quite a complex picture, but the big dispute between the medieval nominalists and realists is a starting point for beginning to get the difference. And of course our world is largely dominated by a nominalistic perspective—ideas are free they're just ciphers that we use to organize things But the thought that they are existent beings and then work in your soul, when you contemplate them you connect with them in the astral plane. And that has implications – that of course is virtually unknown except now to your audience. Yeah! That's a really great breakdown of complex idea

1:00:15 And this has been amazing. Obviously it's just a crash course in some of the really dense material that Steiner has on pretty much every subject and you have an impressive amount of knowledge when it comes to this stuff, and real talent for talking about it I very much appreciate you taking the time to do this You're not really here too promote much more than ideas per se but Tell people about your books in particular and give them any links or follow-up information you want them to know about before we call it in. Well, one of the pieces of my biography was managing Anthroposophic Press 1980 to 1988 and during that time I managed to get the Nobel Laureate Saul Bellow

1:01:04 to write a foreword to a collection of Steiner lectures called The Boundaries Of Natural Science. The story of how that came about is quite interesting. And, of course, Bellow being perhaps the most famous English-language writer in the second half of the 20th century—getting a foreword by him really got that book into many libraries and I wrote an account of that activity called Conversations with Saul Bellow on Esoteric Spiritual Matters, A Publisher's Recollection That's by me, Stephen E. Usher and it is a Steiner book publication 2017 you might find that interesting also I mentioned this collection of Steiners

1:01:51 Lectures and Essays on Three-Folding, currently published as Rudolph Steiner Social Three-Folding Rebalancing Culture Politics and Economics. This is from the British Steiner Library, Rudolf Steiner Press but you can find both of these books on Amazon They're interesting reads including a whole discussion of how the First World War broke out Steiner's attempts to bring a healing to Central Europe. At the end of that, that's about as much as I can think offhand. I hope Greg you'll send me an email so I can listen to the podcast when it airs and tell about it to my friends. Certainly been very interesting talking to you. You've got great questions and great insights. I'm quite impressed and hope to be able to hear this broadcast when it comes out

1:02:46 Absolutely, and that's kind of you to say. I'm really just trying to hang on it's you that is so impressive and your real inspiration You know a lot about a lot huge thanks for doing this and take care out there Well, thank you so much and do send me that link so i can listen Yes people what a great episode we got here? I seriously loved it I've said it before, but some interviews are with guests who are just doing the conspiracy podcast rounds and i still try to do the best interview i can. But in those situations, I'm still only going to be one of many when certain people have a new book out and stuff like that. The real good ones—the special THC episodes—are when I can bring you someone you most likely haven't heard before and they bring you content you most likely aren't familiar with

1:03:43 And I think we really hit it out of the park today. Dr Usher did an amazing job, he cultivated a deep understanding of Steiner over many years and i'm very thankful that we were able to connect! He is so good at summarizing segments of very complex and dense material It's not really easy to jump around like we did, but... You know I also love these grab bag shows where we can jump from topic to topic and pack so much in like we did. I also love it because it's not really about current events but yet it kind of is And he didn't really come here to plug anything just happy to spread the good word of Steiner and he is a master at it clearly

1:04:25 I want to make sure we thank John Scott Legg, the current managing director of steinerbooks.org and or steinerbooks.presswarehouse.com Dr Usher was his recommendation and i think we're all very thankful right now I also want to make sure people are reminded of that major contribution Dr. Usher made in his book, Conversations with Saul Bellow on Esoteric Spiritual Matters a Publishers Recollections It's kind of cool when there is an author out there who maybe

1:05:01 What's subtle about some of his feelings on things that you could tell from the work and then someone like doctor usher goes and says hey i think i picked up on some threads can you elaborate on these things in your thoughts on some of these areas, basically gets it on the record that's pretty cool. To read from the back of the book, in 1975 Saul Bellow published his eighth novel Humboldt's Gift in which the main protagonist is occupied with among many other things the teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Although the novel was an immediate success, winning a Pulitzer Prize and leading directly to Bellows' Nobel Prize for Literature in 1976. The unapologetic presence of Rudolf Steiner's Anthroposophy in a work of such obvious cultural importance was and remains puzzling for many commentators

1:05:53 A sentence from one contemporary review of the novel is typical. I am not clear whether Charlie's devotion to Steiner's Anthroposophy is one of Mr. Bellow's more obscure jokes or is meant seriously. Those readers with more than a passing knowledge of Steiner's work, however, immediately recognize that an authentic effort to unprejudicedly come to terms with Anthroposophy lay behind Bellow's artful depiction of Charlie Citrine." Stephen Usher, who five years later became the manager of the Anthroposophic Press was one such reader. This small book is a personal account of the conversations and correspondence that followed their meeting through mutual acquaintance and includes the foreword Saul Bellow wrote at the time for a significant book of lectures by Rudolf Steiner The Boundaries Of Natural Science

1:06:43 It's a quick read, but it's pretty awesome that he got to actually contribute to getting that on the record with such a noteworthy author who is no longer around to share their feelings. Glad somebody asked! And it's a great follow-up to this episode because it also kind of weaves through Steiner subjects in a similar way Also, Dr. Usher did get back to me a few days after we recorded and wanted to add a little elaboration on his comments about the economy So I'll just read what he said to you After many years of observing the economy there is one enduring experience Looking ahead it usually looks bleak But it often surprises me in that the economy is so much more resilient than I could imagine

1:07:29 My guess from this experience is things will somehow muddle through. Anyway, that should take the edge off of my statement and I appreciate that it was a little dire. I understand the feelings of direness but i guess he just didn't want to leave you guys with such a negative forecast so I think that was a nice thing to add It's good to be aware and pay attention maybe even plan a little for rocky times But put it all into perspective and don't get dragged into apocalyptic thinking. Certainly not a good headspace for me right now because in higher side news, I just became...a girl dad And our daughter Theory Lynn Carlwood has arrived! Baby Theo as we've been saying and As odd a name as Theory is It's the first three letters of my wife Teresa's name and the last three letters of Gregory and it just fit too well not to lean into

1:08:26 And everything they say is true. It's a level of love that seems hard to experience any other way, but that also makes you vulnerable in a new way too! And I'll save the full report for a joint session or something rather than taking up too much time with my personal stuff at the end of an unrelated THC episode But for nine months, my wife and I did everything right that we could to make a strong baby through diet and vitamins and all the rest of it. When the day came, we were rushed from the birth center to the hospital. My wife had to have an emergency C-section. The vision of me catching the baby in the tub and us having this moment where we get the gender reveal together... None of that happened! My wife was put under and i wasn't even in the room

1:09:13 most traumatic experience of my life. But long story short, we are home now and by every metric that exists for five day old babies it seems like we got her out just in time and we will all make it through this unscathed but the lesson I learned was to take it down a notch when being so critical of the hospital system and western medicine because my daughter would not be here otherwise and all of my hubris over Well, if we let the placenta drain and do all these natural things what could go wrong? Well life can be random sometimes and we didn't get to let the placenta drain or do a lot of the things that we cared about but it's all good right. All is well that ends well

1:10:03 One thing that does tie into this episode is the vaccine issue. I've been so obsessed over it and thinking that if you avoid the shots, then of course your kid will be healthy! And i've been pretty cocky about that and got a very clear reminder that its not that simple Even though, in Theory's fragile state while they gave her an IV of antibiotics and fed her through another IV right out of the womb. In her first 24 hours of life they did want to give her a hepatitis B vaccine which is nuts! And I had to say no to that They didn't push me beyond asking a couple times but i felt a little shocked that they would even want to do that right then

1:10:46 But because we were stuck in the hospital for a few days, we literally had nothing to do but hold her and do the skin-to-skin contact thing and get her started on breastfeeding. And I think that was a game changer and everything is good! She didn't even lose weight in the first few days which they say is a great sign and even a bit rare...but it's a testament to how dedicated my wife is to making sure she's getting all the mother's milk she can It ended up being one of the few things we could control, and I'm very thankful for my wife's tenacity on that. So yeah! Wish we had this magical birth experience. Wish my baby wasn't pumped with antibiotics on her first day. Wish I was there when she was born and my wife could say that all her discipline and hard work paid off the natural way. But we have a healthy little girl and were going to control the things we can control now

1:11:40 And for me, I am going to take some time for the family because we had a five-day labor then another three days in the hospital and we're finally home now. So this is what I expected to be taking time off for rather than having it all eaten up in the pregame so... It's just—I guess requires more time than I thought but I'm already two shows ahead for November. I planned well. It shouldn't disrupt you guys too much And hopefully you understand. But that is the show! Big thanks again to Dr Usher, you can thank him yourself at stevenusher.com Oh yeah I almost forgot entirely to say sign up for PLUS if you want to hear the second hour of course it was just as action-packed totally different aspects of Steiner's work that we got into some of that stuff would be the nuances of the dynamic between thoughts astral beings and energy

1:12:37 The Great Polarity, Lucifer and Ariman. And the voices he did were just really stellar by the way! We talked about Ariman's coronavirus fear boosts, principles of biodynamic agriculture—that's something I could probably do a full show on—Dr. Usher's own expertise in economics and his thoughts about our broad economic health today, economic and financial advice for an individual in these times, and Steiner's Nine Layers Of The Earth All great stuff! TheHiresideChats.com, sign up for plus $8 a month you get 5 full 2 hour shows lots of great content in the archive and you don't have to be a member forever just throw me a couple bones and get yourself twice as much good stuff Alright I love you guys take care your families Be kind everyone else

1:13:32 Don't sweat the small stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff, as George Carlin would say. Focus on the things that matter and all that but I gotta declare this meeting of The Midnight Society closed! I've done my part your move Steiner Suppressors Esoteric Insight Ignorers & Agents Of Aramon Your fucking move Oh no you see The world isn't random, it's attached to puppet strings Control over a thing The 9-to-5 is trying to steal ya Now don't that job seem silly? Hello Can you hear me Or should I play back recordings From some spying agency Wish we were younger

1:14:32 and free I'll be thankful when it's all exposed A vast conspiracy There is such a difference between me now and the damn brother child Hollow from the highest high Calling out thousand cries They'll tell you the story Of everything that's been done And they'll call out deception Of the web that's been spun Hollow from the higher side The earth is hollow They'll tell you about something That no one else will Have you heard of?

1:15:38 Have you heard about the real since the wrong? But no, they're cartoons It's so typical of me to talk about this stuff I'm sorry That's good and well Did you ever hear the argument that nothing really happens it's no secret

1:16:14 And that the best is plugged It's doubling your time Hollow from the higher side They're calling out a thousand cards They'll tell you something elite have done and they'll call out deception of the web that's been spawned Hollow from the higher

1:16:50 I'm challenging your path And i'll tell you something That the battle's begun But we can't fight it with violence The mind where each one has a war Hello from the higher side They're calling out our thunders

1:17:46 I'll tell you what the elite have done and they'll call out deception on the web that's been spun from the higher side. Challenging your paradigm, and I'll tell But we can't fight it with violence. The mind's where it's won, that's the rule.