Dr. Scott Kolbaba | Physicians’ Untold Stories, Near Death Experience & Other Miracles

00:13 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan There clearly may be something there beyond the realm of man Until we've thoroughly tested every last closed chested view You'll find the more you think you know, less you really do Where would we be without THC? We know they're lying to us just don't know to what degree Where would we be without THC I said great car wooden company

01:01 Alright, Hiresight Chatters. Despite our frustrations with our societal system and the unfairness of it all we still don't really understand what life's about anyway Why do we come here? And what happens when we die is our manifestation on earth a short practice life to make the assessment with which were sorted out for our eternal bliss or damnation as the church would have us believe Are we students in a cosmic school recycled this plane until we've learned the lessons needed to advance beyond the reincarnation cycle Or are we just the meat machines modern science says we are? While some of the available options seem more likely than others, these are not easy questions. But if you examine them deeply you'll find that the scope of human experience does have just enough breadcrumbs baked into it to let us know there's something waiting at the end of the earthly rainbow. Psychedelics, lucid dreaming, precognition children who remember past lives near-death experiences and yes even the power of prayer and intention

01:59 All things that make us wonder about that other side in today's guest is no different. His name is Dr Scott Kolbaba and not only has he dedicated his own life to keeping people on this side of reality as a physician in Wheaton, Illinois but plagued by the mystery of it all He dedicated years to interviewing other doctors about the odd and miraculous experiences they've had with the patients in their practice and turn the best of them into the book Physicians Untold Stories, which walks the reader through the miraculous experiences doctors are hesitant to share with anyone. Well luckily he's here to share them with us boldly going after the big questions a bona fide lifesaver who is not afraid to examine the abyss Dr Scott Kolbaba welcome to The Higher Side Thanks Greg it's great to be here

02:43 Yeah thanks for being here you did a great job with this book I do love a good compilation and the stories that you in the 26 doctors in the book are willing to tell definitely make a great contribution to chiseling down the mystery of death and I suppose spirit allies for lack of a better label. And to kick this off here, tell us about the road to writing this book because I do think it's a great idea and I understand this was a pretty in-depth exploration with way more interviews that didn't make the cut than did right? Yeah, I probably talked to 200 docs and lots and lots of stories. But the stories that wanted to include were the ones that gave me goosebumps or made me tear up not from sadness but more from emotion. And so if I listen to a doc story at 5 am in the morning and get goosebumps, that's a story that was going in the book. So there are about 30 of those 26 docs maybe 30 stories. You know, I'm just an ordinary

03:41 I see regular patients. I'm an internist in Wheaton, Illinois for over 30 years. I'm not a book writer. I'm not a journalist at all but something just got to me when I started to hear some of these stories and doctors don't really talk about these kinds of things they talk about their golf game or the potassium levels or who went into renal failure who died or whatever These are the kind of things that we don't talk about When i started hearing some of these stories, taken back because these are very moving experiences that doctors have. I discovered that the docs don't like to talk about them, nor did I because we were all afraid that if we talked about these stories in public people would think we're crazy and not want to come to a doctor who has a spiritual or a premonition or a dream kind of story

04:30 But the doctors did share them and ultimately they agreed, and I was able to put their names on every story except for one. One doctor had an experience that involved his own illness and he didn't want the illness to be revealed anyone. And I think the reason that they shared these stories at the risk of their careers was because of what I call in the book, and that is sappy do-gooders. Most doctors, least the ones that I'm working with are trying to help the world, trying save lives, trying to do some good for people every single day. And I think they realized that these experiences and these stories would give people hope and peace and it's kind of a crazy world out there. And I think they recognized that if they could help a couple people with the story and help them realize that there's something else out there or that there is life after this life... That they would accomplish their goal and they would risk their careers to do that. Hmm. I think is pretty noble and like I said all the doctors except for one are

05:25 were able to put their names onto their stories. Well, it is noble. I mean words like woo-woo and pseudoscience these terms they really do hurt our ability to share our own experiences especially when there's a career at risk and it's kind of sad because I do think these experiences are kind of baked into reality that you get just enough they almost seem perfectly engineered without giving you the whole keys to the castle. And the fact that we don't talk about them really hurts that baked in mechanism from doing what I think it's kind of supposed to do."

06:03 I think you're right. And, I think the doctors and the medical profession is realizing that and I think more and more we're reading about these kinds of things. One of the ER docs that I was talking with was telling me it's now in their literature that these kinds of experiences especially in the emergency room where people have life-threatening emergencies were seeing more and more stories about near death experiences and visions and things like that so...I think its coming out into the open and I'm glad it is One of the things that happened to the docs and myself after we wrote these stories and published the book was that people came out and said, thank you for doing this. We had no criticism. No one left my practice because they thought I was weird. And no one left any of the doctors' practices, and their practices are still doing well

06:51 I think we were really surprised that when people read these stories, and I've been speaking quite a bit. And when people hear the stories they say thank you for bringing this out because I've had a story like that too. And I'm convinced that most people in most families have had some unusual stories, some unusual incidences that they haven't afraid to share and when they hear that these doctors have similar experiences, they share them too. And I've experienced that in my exam rooms or other places where people are sharing their stories which is pretty neat It is neat and it's a curious thing why our culture is so skewed in a way to discourage people from talking about these experiences, especially that this culture of fear exists somewhere. I guess it's injected into the communities that would have this sort of insight and keep them from sharing but the positive aspect is that it really is just a perception however its arrived at because when you actually come out and put yourself out there which is always a risk...

07:48 you really aren't disbarred from the medical profession. So that's a beautiful thing and Your book is broken down into four categories. Divine Intervention, Death in the Afterlife, Miraculous Healing and Prayer And of these the death in the afterlife section was definitely a favorite of mine because when people actually die In the care of a doctor and are brought back then they have these details about their own resuscitation Often seeing it from vantage point that is above the room or different from where their body is I mean that is pretty fascinating It really is. And that's one of the stories what got me involved with this book, because one of my good friends Dave Mochel ran up to me on the floor in the hospital and he grabbed my arm and said Scott I've gotta tell you this incredible story that happened to our mutual patient

08:37 And I said, okay Dave tell me the story. And he said well I can't tell it to you here because someone might hear me so we went into an empty patient room and they told me about our mutual patient Mary who had a ankle problem that was going to operate on her ankle. As they were putting her to sleep and giving her in the pre-op antibiotics she arrested because of the antibiotic that was found out later And so, flatlined. No pulse, no respirations, no response to pain. She was basically dead and they called the code in the OR and when that happens everyone rushes in from the OR's next door one of the people that rushed in was a tech that had pretty bright red hair underneath his operating room cap he started to do CPR

09:16 and the compressions weren't adequate enough to provide a pulse, and Dr. Mochel recognized that he was in charge of the code so since the code is really not a very polite affair it's a life-and-death situation, he actually pushed him aside, he stumbled away and Dr. Mochel then took over and started to do the CPR and did it adequately enough with some medications and the CPR she came back but wasn't conscious until the next day So, the cardiologist took over and they recognized that it was the antibiotic that caused her to rest. And after a couple of days she recovered totally and was ready to go back home. Dr. Mochel wanted to give some final discharge instructions while he was doing that Mary interrupted him and said thank you for saving my life. Dr. Mochel is pretty humble guy and simply said well there's team effort everyone pitched in. She said no I saw you push that guy with red hair aside and start CPR

10:05 By that point, Dr. Mogul wasn't quite sure what to say. He sat down because he had weak knees and she went on to tell him all the details of the code and he said well how could you have known that? And she said, when I arrested, I rose up to the top of the room and was able to see everything that happened in the code. I was able to see you start the CPR. I was able to see the nurses." Then she described what had happened in exact detail and she said, when I was there my grandmother came to me who had been dead for a long time and told me it was not my time to go or that I'd have to come back but if I was a good and kind person she would save a place for me in heaven. So

10:43 Mary was really not the kindest person in the world before this. You would always dread having her come into your exam room because she'd always have something bad to say like, gee how come you're late? Or why didn't you fill my prescription or things like that? Afterwards she was the nicest and kindest person She'd bake us cookies And she had all kinds of nice things for everyone that she met and she was able to help her widowed father a great deal So I called the story Mary's Christmas Carol because it was like the Scrooge story, where Scrooge came back and was a totally different person than just like Mary was. So when Dr. Mochel heard this story he had to tell me because it was our patient I asked him who we told the story too before and he said just my wife no one else has learned about this story because they think it was too crazy And so I finally was able to convince him to have me publish the story but that was what got me started I think with the book

11:35 And the recall stories that happened to fall into my lap at the same time made me decide to go ahead and publish that because that was just such an incredible story from one of most conservative, straight arrow kind of doctors I can think of. Dr. Mochel. He couldn't explain this scientifically. He tried his best but this was something just beyond his explanation. Yes and I love that you did give the name Mary's Christmas Carol and draw that Scrooge analogy because it is so true. And that happens in a lot of cases, that people come away from these things transformed...and you know you can kind of see how that would be given the fact that you're having a near-death experience and you're now lucky to be alive but if

12:18 It's just kind of interesting that people have that universal tilt towards a positive polarity afterwards. That's true, and you know I'm a busy doc, I've got a bunch of kids to raise and so i've never read very many stories about near-death experiences So after writing the book I realized that it's fairly common And it's in the literature that's very similar to the way Mary described it So I was surprised and pleased to see that this is not an unusual circumstance And how common would you say that Mary's situation is? It is my favorite story in the book, but how much data do we have collected. I mean not a lot. Is there any way to tell what kind of percentage of people who undergo resuscitation have this sort of experience?

13:01 I don't know if we have any statistics, but I think many docs and many authors are collecting data and information on this. So there's some repositories in the country where we're collecting more and more information about these and other kinds of medical miracles that you simply cannot explain. And I think it's good that they're doing that. It is good. And one question I always have to try to hone in on that information When we're declared dead, it's usually related to sea spraying activity or the heart stopping. Does one seem to be a better catalyst for an experience than the other when a person is brought back? Anything like that?

13:41 I don't know. In Mary's case, we had no way of determining what her brain function was that would require EEG and things like that but we can see her cardiac function so i think most the time when you have a situation like this it is mostly the heart that we recognize has stopped and then there's no bodily function that we can determine there's no response to pain or anything else So in our case the brain wasn't dead but it was approaching that is not supposed to come back. I think again, most of the time it's going to be a cardiac arrest that we recognize simply because we don't have a person hooked up to an EEG machine. Fair enough

14:20 Another thing that's interesting to me about these experiences is that it doesn't seem like its a choice to come back or not in terms of you know, in those moments of being between the worlds some people come back and It doesn't seem like the choices offered to them necessarily on that other side but the entities they encounter oftentimes do know. They often say hey You know, it's great to see you I'll save you a place, like you mentioned in Mary's case. Or we're going to have to go back for awhile it's not your time." These sorts of things obviously they come into the situation with the sort of insight and wisdom that the person doesn't have in their kind of chaotic discombobulated state going between the worlds.

15:05 But that's another thing that I just think is interesting, is it seems to be kind of up to chance or up to basically the people in your position as if they come back or not. And they really have no say in most cases. We've had some docs that have had near-death experiences that have had a choice of whether they stay or whether they leave one that comes to mind was a family practice doc Bob Cornell So we had a couple of issues switched over to the phone, but you were just about to maybe tell us story that did offer a situation where a person had some kind of choice or autonomy over their choice to stay or go.

15:45 Yeah, there's an interesting story from John Messitt who is a gynecologist. A good friend and he was good friends with a family practice doc that he did consults for Bob Cornell. They would meet in the doctor's lounge which is a great place to meet in the morning because they're wonderful things are for doctors like doughnuts and coffee so they'd meet every morning and they talk about their favorite things and Bob Cornell's favorite thing beside his family was fishing And so Bob would talk about fishing and he pretty much knew every lure that needed to be used in every lake and everybody of water in the United States, in some foreign countries too. He was really an avid fisherman. They love fishing. So they would talk about fishing almost every time they got together in the morning before rounds. One day John Messitt went to the doctor's lounge and didn't see Bob Cornell there then he found out that he had a massive stroke when he was in the ICU

16:37 John Messitt went to the ICU to see him and he was in a deep coma, unresponsive. And he talked with the intensivist there who's taking care of him and the intensivist told them that Bob had such a massive stroke that he probably wouldn't come back. They thought he was pretty close to being brain dead and they were going to give them a couple days to see what happened. If he didn't come back in three days, they were going to pull the plug and let him go. So Messit never realized how close they had become and how much he was upset about Bob Cornell's stroke. And he didn't really know what to do, it felt pretty hopeless and you've probably had situations where you have a situation, you'd like to do something but you don't know what to do when you really can't do anything. So Dr. Messett decided that he would do something real strange and he just either move his chair close to Bob's face, he closed the curtain on the cubicle where he is located and they started to tell him stories. He was quiet at first

17:31 a little bit louder because he didn't want anyone to hear him. He told them the story about fishing in the Mackenzie River, which is in Canada and flying in on a float plane and catching as many graylings as they could possibly imagine – about 100 I think they caught one day there was a catch-and-release. Every day you would tell more of that story about the Mackenzie River fishing episode and it was really quite a good story And his wife thought he was crazy, because why would he be telling a story to a person who has brain dead and it's going to be unplugged in a couple of days? Well the third day when it was time for Bob Cornell to die. John Messick walked into the room and realized that he was too late. The room is dark, the bed had been taken down and he realized that Bob Cornell had died

18:14 and he went to the nurse, they said when did Dr. Cornell die? And she said well... She kind of laughed John Messitt was a little taken aback by her laughter and she said he didn't die! He woke up yesterday and he looked great! So by the time they connected again because Bob Cornell was sent off to rehab pretty quickly They were in the doctor's lounge again Dr. Cornell came up to John Messitt and he said, thank you so much for telling me those stories and that took John Messitt back because he didn't realize that he heard him and he said you were the only one that talked with me really shared anything and those stories gave me encouragement and Dr. Messitt doesn't know for sure but he was wondering when a person gets so close to death and has a choice of coming or going if those stories kept Bob Cornell going

19:02 and kept him thinking that maybe he could come back. And so, he survived. He lived a long time after that. He ultimately died of other causes. The unfortunate thing is Bob Cornell never made it to the Mackenzie River to fish for the grayling at least not in this life. So John Messitt is wondering whether these stories actually did keep him on this side of the Vale? So we didn't cross over to their side No one will know for sure, but I think there are times when people do have a choice. And there's a fine line between death and living and I think some people can hold on for awhile until someone comes in situations that we see that happens too. The mother or the son is coming from California and they hold on until the son or some relative gets there. And I think the same is true maybe for life and death. I think some people can actually decide it's not my time, I'm going to come back. We'll never know

19:59 That's true. And I definitely don't think there is any singular answer and that phenomenon of holding on is really compelling as well, it's just like when it comes to that moment of death we do have a little flexibility because people do it. It's just like we don't really know how we beat our heart or breathe but in the same way we don't really know how how we let go, but when the time comes to do it we seem to be able to. I think doctors recognize that and we all have situations where people are holding on for some event. Maybe there's a birthday that they're holding on for, special anniversary or relative coming from somewhere else in the country. Those are all situations where every doctor –I'm sure that has been in practice for awhile–has seen people that are near death holding on until that person comes and then they let go of them and allow themselves to die so there is something to that too.

20:58 Mm-hmm. And another story that was one of my favorites in the book is the one, Get Your Paddles? Can you tell us about that one because in terms of details about those beans on the other side, that one seemed to have the richest amount of detail. Yeah this is Fred Bohoffer who's an ER doc and Fred has been around for awhile and he was working one night when an ambulance came with a fellow that obviously was having a heart attack Dr. Bohoffer decided to go out to the ambulance and as soon as he realized that, he asked the techs to get their paddles out and shock him. And they shocked him back to a regular rhythm. He partially woke up and they started transporting him to the cardiac room in the ER. Then on his way there, he arrested again. They got the paddles out and shocked him again

21:47 And then that happened a third time just as he got into the cardiac room and finally they were able to get him on some IV medication that kept his heart stable and he didn't rest anymore, he woke up. When he woke up Dr. Bohoffer tried to counsel him little bit about you must have really been at tough time and this must really be scary for you or are going to be okay now? He said no I wasn't afraid at all and Dr. Bohoffer was kind of surprised and he said well why not? My father came to me and he walked into the room, and I could see him. It was pretty reassuring. Then the next time he was joined by my wife

22:24 The third time, they were joined by my brother and they didn't say anything to me but they just were there. And it was really comforting to see them all and Dr. Bolhoffer asked him if they were going to be coming to visit him in the hospital? He said no, they've all been dead for a long time. So Dr. Bolhoffer thought maybe what was happening there is he was basically dead and these These spirits came to him to take him back. He recovered and lived, but Dr. Bolhoffer was saying that in the ER literature this is another unusual circumstance where people have passed

22:59 pass to the other side and then are brought back, they have visions or see people that come presumably to take them to heaven or take them to wherever you go when you pass through this life. So that was kind of an interesting story for me to hear. Yeah! Like what is that about? It's so weird I'm sure you've had a lot of similar stories that were left on The Cutting Room Floor but when you go over the ones that contain The Meeting Of Dead Relatives Are there factors that repeat more often than not? Are there any times where they're given information about the purpose of life or what's on the other side in that spirit realm, is there any kind of pattern to it would you say.

23:37 I don't know if there's any pattern to it. I think the relatives that come back try to provide some counseling, some comfort and I don't know if anyone in at least the stories that we have were anything about advice and so forth. There is one that I particularly like, The Grandma Hanlon Story. Do you remember that one? Yes! That's an interesting one One of my gynecology friends Jack Heitzler actually delivered two of our children been pretty active in the community has delivered thousands and thousands of kids I'm sure in his lifetime, in his career. And his wife they have I think eight children. His wife was delivering their fifth child and during the delivery, she ran into troubles and despite Dr. Heitzler who's a gynecologist and his partner who is doing the delivery, Grandma Hanlon who is a midwife came into the room and saved Joan's life. And the story is something like this. Grandma Hanlon came from Ireland

24:34 and was a midwife in Chicagoland area for quite some time. She was kind of the spiritual leader of the family, every time that someone couldn't pay she would do it for free she would take money and food to people that were poor in the city and she was an example of a great spirit to everyone. She ultimately got older and had to retire, and when she did, she lived with Joan's mother when Joan was a little girl. And Joan would say if I got in trouble with my mother, if I made it to Grandma Hanlon's lap, I'd be safe! So they became incredibly good friends. They had a phenomenal love and friendship for each other, the grandma and Joan. When Joan was delivering the baby

25:14 The baby came out okay, everything was fine. But afterwards she started to experience some pain with the afterbirth and so forth so they decided to give her a drug called Trilene which is administered by mask and it puts the person into deep sleep. And so they were about ready to put the mask of the Trilene over Joan's face allow her get some relief from the pain and put her to sleep. And Grandma Helen walked into the room with their typical polka dot dress and white sweater vest, white hair up in bun and old lady shoes the foot of the bed and shook her head that Joan should not use to take the Trilene. And Joan didn't know why, but then she pushed it aside and refused to take it when no one realized that Joan had eaten a large meal right before she went into labor in about 30 seconds or so after she pushed the trial unit way she vomited the entire meal had you been in deep sleep, she would have vomited and probably aspirated may have died from an aspiration

26:04 So Joan says that she made it to Grandma Hanlon's lap one last time, their love having transcended time and all eternity because Grandma Hanlon had died 22 years before that. Yeah that is another one of those really good ones and it's also different in that she was conscious she wasn't necessarily any kind of near death experience where she seen this figure outside her body no, she's right there just in plain consciousness scene you know I guess that dead loved one. A vision, yeah. And she hadn't had any pain medication there was no anesthetic given I mean she was pretty alert and knew what was going on so that was kind of an interesting story i think

26:50 someone from the other side lending a hand to comfort and save a person in trouble. Yes, and I really like trying to get into the mechanisms of these things and how they can occur. And it's interesting that in the cases of people who die and then are greeted with a group of relatives, it's interesting that these people or spirits are always able to be there at the right time and space and together. It makes me wonder if possibly some type of subconscious projection of things that are comforting or something other than what it seems at face value. I'm unsure but they're the kind of questions i ask when we see these things that seem unlikely, but often repeat. It is kinda clockworky when you get into those experiences there's a range but its not the widest range

27:42 Yeah, the doctors couldn't explain these things and maybe when people die. Maybe when we're close to death we have some decrease in circulation of the brain and maybe you can see things and so forth. And so I think something like that happens on occasion but i think some of these things that we learn about or write about or hear about are really something more than that I think there's something that we simply can't explain. To the docs that told these stories, they seem to point to something higher than us. There is something more to this life than just what we have in front of our eyes here and that's kind of their conclusion that they all came to when they shared these stories

28:20 And another one I really like is the dime, because it's not exactly the same but it is similar to this phenomenon that I know a few people who have expressed this sort of thing to me where a person has died who's obsessed over something like a pink flamingo for example. Then for weeks after that person's death they just see so many pink flamingos everywhere that its overwhelming and clearly some sorta sign It's hard to know if they're projecting or if someone from the other side is stacking up these reminders, maybe to let their loved ones know they're okay. But it's a pretty weird aspect of this stuff but also seems to be fairly common

29:00 You know, I think it is and I've heard lots of stories now after writing this one about people that have had similar experiences. The dime story is one of my favorites. It's interesting, my editor didn't like it at first and I rewrote it and rewrote it and said, ''I've got to put this in the book'' And she finally agreed that was okay. Like I had written into her satisfaction as well on my favorite. So a story about Steve Graham who was an ER doc at our local hospital who was seeing that had some abdominal symptoms, it wasn't anything real serious and he noticed the other tattoo on his arm that looked a little strange. It was a tattoo of a dime and so Steve asked the fellow after if the curiosity got to him said you know what can you tell me the story about why would you have a tattoo of a dime on your arm? And the fellow says my son is a coin collector

29:45 and he collects all different coins, but his favorite coin is a dime. And it seems whenever we would go to a very special place like a special dinner or to the Cubs game for example, he would find the dime. He'd pull up the seat and there would be a dime under the seat or move the plate and there'll be a dime under the plate. And he started collecting those dimes. And he said my son was tragically killed in an automobile accident on the expressway number of years ago. And ever since then, I've been finding dimes in places that would be special to him. And so, Dr. Graham thought that was a nice story. He's a polite guy and didn't say anything but he was thinking it's kind of an interesting story but I'm not sure I can quite buy it. And so, he took care of the abdominal pain gave him some antibiotic and send them on his way then Dr. Graham went back to the doctor's dictation area where only the doctors can go to dictate the note on event. So, he pulled out the chair and there was something shiny in the floor and looked down and there it was a dime on the floor

30:43 Robbie was the name of the boy that died. He said, thanks Robbie for helping me believe." The interesting thing about that story is that's not the end I told that story to my wife and she liked it She was my first editor So whenever I write a story I give it to her to edit and see what she thinks about And so she liked this story a lot as she finished editing and spell checking and so forth As you put it down and went to the next room And there on the counter was a dime. Of course, there was! Ever since then we've been finding dimes in strange and unusual places so I don't know what to make of that There may be something or maybe nothing but it's kind of cool that that has happened. I was actually getting dressed one morning putting my pants on and three dimes popped out of my pocket...I do not know You can make it what you want but that was a fun story

31:33 There's another event that happened to me too. It reminds me of that a little bit. It's not in the book, it's about our vacation. We vacationed Cape Cod quite a bit. Have you ever been to Cape Cod? A couple times in my childhood yeah. Yeah! It is fun place everyone and our family loves to go to Cape Cod we do that about every three or four years and we were vacationing there and it was...we are big family group. We love family things and this was particularly special day. The whole family was there all the kids and grandkids We're having dinner that night and it was one of those kind of events you want to just pinch yourself is so perfect the girls were laughing and talking with each other the kids running around chasing bugs and things in the yard and boys are cooking because on vacation like the clock. When we at the store we saw a whole bunch of pies stacked up and they were all cherry pie sweet pot five for the crowd which is about how many need for dinner

32:24 And we got to talking about our favorite pie. We decided that my mother who had died, used to make rhubarb pie from a big plant we had in the backyard and we'd all sneak into the kitchen when we went to visit her and grab our spoons and germ theory aside, go right into the pie and finish off with rhubarb pie. It was delicious it was really sweet the best pie we've ever had. And we decided on vacation then that if grandma was there, she would make us a rhubarb pie but we had to settle for cherry pie that night so we all had a wonderful dinner and again it was just such a special night it was one of those special nights you'll never forget and we finished the swordfish on the grill and corn in the cob and then my wife served the cherry pie I took one bite and suddenly had goosebumps because it wasn't cherry pie

33:12 And the box had cherry pie on it, but the pie was clearly rhubarb. Certainly you could explain it by saying there was some mix up in the factory or the bakery or whatever But to me that was my mom's way of saying I'm really here enjoying this special family night with you guys That is such a nice story and it does make one wonder because stories like this in the Dime, they almost suggest that people from the other side are able to manipulate matter or manipulate objects or put them in place or get us to move towards things or notice things. And you can also pull some data from the realm of seances and ritual practice and the more paranormal type of stuff that goes on but

33:58 In both cases, it's a strange suggestion that people on the other side are able to do that, even just regular folks who have died. It's an odd mechanism. Yeah I'm not sure we can explain it all. I think the docs though seem to think that there is something more than what we don't understand and that people who have gone beyond before us, our loved ones may know what were doing and they may be able to participate in our lives in some interesting strange ways Indeed So another thing that I am really interested in, that doesn't necessarily make it into your book because its really not the sort of data that doctors would be familiar with. But there are people who compile these cases of kids who remember past lives and that is a weird thing to digest also sometimes they have some

34:53 facts about the person who died, that they communicate with their loved ones and it all checks out. And it's just like one of those things you can't really get your head around and then you also factor in the fact that sometimes people have experiences like the one you shared that can sometimes happen decades after a person dies where there is still some kind of clues that they're consciously with you. So to rectify the two things together is even crazier, I just don't know how both can be true? Maybe there's a whole system of choices we make on the other side of how long we want to wait to reincarnate or if we can at all but there are just... There's a lot of weirdness and there's a big blind spot for us on this side of the coin

35:38 Yeah, I think we don't know all the answers and there are some unusual things that happen. And again we didn't have any stories about reincarnation with the docs but there are some strange things that happen in this world that make us at least the doctors came to the conclusion if there's something else out there and keep your eyes open look for what it is and search about it see if you can come up with what works for you. I think believe in something that higher than us can be very reassuring and give people hope when these are really troubled times. Indeed, yes it can definitely provide some hope but on this subject if I'm being honest one thing i wasn't crazy about in the book is that a lot of the authors of these stories give the credit to God or they use the term heaven for what's described on the other side and I guess that traditional model is all we have to express these things sometimes

36:30 But in some of the stories, I think the credit should be given to consciousness more than anything else. Things like spontaneous precognition or going one way when you could have gone another and end up finding someone who needs help or when you seem to know a conversation with a loved one is the last one...I think that maybe there's a lot more to our non-physical selves and we just don't realize it and instead we chalk everything up to our father who art in heaven. And I guess, I like the data but sometimes maybe we need a more nuanced interpretation of that or we need a more fleshed out understanding of what consciousness really is."

37:09 Again, these stories and many stories that we hear I'm not sure we can explain them totally. Most of the docs were religious but not all of them and many of them had a religious explanation so I'm leaving it up to readers to have them decide what it means. Absolutely Think that's the best approach and I guess the best example of this kind of thing. I'm talking about would be the prayer category We have this idea put in our heads that if a prayer is answered then it was God granting our wish so to speak but that gives no credit to our own power of manifestation or our own ability to Subconsciously sense for example when another person is in dire need of help like the story you talk about on the mountain

37:54 In my opinion, these are functions of the individual in extreme states of stress or emotion with no real need to invoke an all-powerful creator God in these examples. Which is important to me because if we outsource these situations, we won't study them to try and work on increasing their frequency but they are miraculous regardless! Yeah, you know I don't know if anyone can say for certain what happens in certain circumstances. The one you talk about on the mountain is an interesting story that was a Steve Heim story who's a trauma surgeon orthopedic surgeon who was skiing in Colorado and he

38:30 got separated from his wife and his wife's sister in the attempt to get back to where they were skiing through a grove of trees, he felt this overwhelming urge to stop skiing. And he did! He doesn't know why he decided to take his skis off and climb up the mountain in the opposite direction from where the girls are waiting for him. He started to climb up the mountain and got about 100 or 150 feet up the mountain, came into a large pine tree and suddenly realized why he was there. He looked down and there underneath the pine tree in the well that's formed by the snow that comes down to the base of the tree, it was a body covered with snow And he wasn't sure the person was alive. He's a trauma surgeon, so he knew exactly what to do. Brushed off his face and you could see that it looked like he was dead. He had a gray face but again being a trauma surgeon reached down and touched his neck. I mean in a pulse, a Freddy pulse but he had a pulse so he was alive. And he went into trauma mode did all the things that you're supposed to do keep him warm and brush the snow off and so forth and just calling for help

39:28 one of the last skiers down the mountain because it was a blizzard at the time and they could hardly see anything. He heard his cry, he came to his side and asked him what to do. Steve said go find the ski patrol as soon as you can call them or get them up here as soon as possible about 10-15 minutes later the ski patrol was coming up with snowmobile and gurney loaded this unconscious skier onto gurney took him down to waiting ambulance and zipped off to hospital The next day, Dr. Haim called the hospital to see what happened to this poor skier and they said he's perfectly fine. He woke up, he splinted his leg in the field—actually, he did with a tree branch and some of his clothes—and the splinting was perfect to keep this leg in position and he was perfectly fine. I asked Steve his interpretation of what happened there. I guess you can come with any interpretation but I think his interpretation was that

40:19 In his words, the man above directed me to this skier. And what's interesting about the story is about two years before that Dr. Haim and his father were cross-country skiing in Michigan and his father arrested basically died on course. Steve did CPR for about an hour with another doctor and he wasn't able to save him since that time. Dr. Haim said I felt guilty that I couldn't save his life. I'm used to saving lives not losing them so he had overwhelming guilt He had failed. And when he was given the chance, he says to save this other skier, he felt that there were two people saved that day—the skier and himself because his grief and his guilt were relieved because he realized that life and death were not up to him. Someone else was in charge of that so he was saved able to go on with his life and the hapless skier who hit the tree was also saved.

41:12 Again, what happened you can explain it in a number of ways. Dr Heim chose to say that this was something that came from above Right and that's an amazing story regardless Of course I rather chalk it up to something like psychic communication or telekinesis But you know who knows if there is a third party involved It really isn't possible to say of course I thought I brought you here to give me the answers to life death universe everything so I'm a little disappointed That you don't know I'm just messing with you. Your book sort of ends with a call for more stories, I'm sure that they've already started coming in! Do you have enough for a sequel yet?

41:50 Yeah, we're working on that and we're also working on a television series. We've got a film producer in New York that's done some filming and we're just looking for a network so if anyone that's involved with the network is listening were interested in showing some of the trailers to our network. So we're working on a second book and also a television series who are looking forward to them Very cool. I know, I definitely missed that old nineties unsolved mystery show which had a lot of these types of things and there doesn't seem to be quite the same repository for weird stories on primetime television as there once was so worthy cause right? Right. Very cool well as we start to wrap this thing up do remind people how to find the book and your website or anything else that they should know if they want to dig in a bit deeper

42:38 Sure. Physicians Untold Stories is the name of the book, it's available primarily through Amazon. We have a website which is physiciansuntoldstories.com and I'm anxious and excited about hearing your stories if you have one to give to us that's through our website again. Again, I'm working on second book and we'll be working other books too on nurses and religious leaders so I think there are lots of stories out there that need to be told. Awesome, I agree. Well thanks so much for reaching out and providing me a copy of the book! I think all these experiences are super important and it does take a certain kind of bravery especially if you're in that sort of field to try to bring this stuff out but it is ultimately very important and hopefully we can keep pushing up against the resistance and be open about things we can't explain or things that just don't fit into the consensus reality box

43:31 Great job. It's been a real pleasure, keep doing what you do out there! It's been a pleasure too Greg thanks so much Alrighty take care Okay bye-bye now Alright alright alright people people people Man life is no doubt strange and I think this sort of examination into those rare moments of high intensity Is exactly the sort of thing we should be doing or should have been doing for the last 200 plus years But better late than never and kudos to Dr. Kolbaba for dipping his toe in! You know, I get guests from a variety of places. Obviously, I hunt a lot of them down myself and get a lot of them recommended from Plus people and the like... And I don't want to brag but to some publishers, I'm kind of a big deal now! But in today's case my man Dr Scott actually sent me some info about his book himself and having just done a show with Alex from Skeptico, I thought this was a real opportunity for my Skeptico moment

44:34 to say, yes these stories are all interesting. These are great case studies but maybe we can look at other explanations besides well God did it God sent me an angel God brought me to the right time and space etc And the good doctor can't exactly be held responsible for the conclusions and tone of other doctors writing their own accounts as they deem fit But I just want to say to them, if you really have a true interest in these mysteries take a couple grams of psilocybin. You know? I can't blame someone for not wanting to go there but you can have these experiences literally today and be back in a couple hours and learn so much more than you might expect! People might just be afraid to know because honestly this stuff is probably safer than driving yourself to work...if that's your concern

45:30 No one ever dies but there were a lot of times here where i wanted to sort of get dr cole baba spitballing and speculating about different ideas. But it became clear that he sort of wanted to just stick to the stories in the book which is fine with me, its much better than a guest who doesn't want to talk about the details of their book and just says well its in there check it out obviously thats the worst situation for listening audience So I took my shot at my skeptico-inspired approach to interviewing, but i didn't want to push too hard or offend the good doctor. And you can only hear, ''I don't know'' as an answer so many times... But none of us know! That's the point of speculating and considering all the angles in how something like life after life actually works, and how separate but equally strange phenomena might be related

46:21 And there are nuances to all of this too. And, of course I wanted to try and unpack those aspects For example, I brought up that it doesn't seem like we have much of a choice when it comes to whether we come back or not And I'm talking about that stage when you're already out of the body, already talking to your dead loved ones. And in that exact space most of the tales i hear involve a person just being pretty out of their element and some wise dead relatives telling them You're going back bro! And I just find it fascinating that these spirits these guardians or liaisons or ushers

46:58 They always seem to have some insight. They never seem surprised, they're never like oh wait Mike what are you doing? Where are you going come back! You know it's never described like that. You don't surprise the spirits they surprise you And I also kind of touched on that point, that isn't it kind of fascinating that our dead loved ones are always able to just congregate at the right time and space. At the moment of our death? The other side has to be very disorienting. Do you experience time and space the same way can you just consciously travel to that exact location how do you know when your

47:36 Living son is about to die so that you can get bedside for his out of body experience. It's strange, right? I mean we have to consider how that works and maybe it's not who we think it is Maybe this isn't our dead relatives. Maybe it's a projection from the deep recesses of our subconscious maybe it's an aspect just like the life review that just kind of happens as a mechanism during the process of death or Or maybe we are on some human energy farm, and when we die trickster entities wearing the masks of our dead loved ones are there to usher us into... The Light.

48:16 Maybe I'm the weird one to even consider these other possibilities. But then Dr Scott brought up some situations where a person either holds on for awhile to say goodbye to a specific person, or they wait until a spouse says it's okay to let go and then they die. And yes there are cases there where people actually die on command. They sort of transition at will And I don't deny the flexibility there, but that is a completely different situation. A completely different aspect of the death process just as interesting but it seems to be one of those semi-automatic will driven aspects of our bodies It's like instinctual but somewhat guideable and i think clearly distinct from someone who's already out of their body wondering if they're going to be coming back or going forward

49:08 Of course I don't know, but it was fun to get into. We talk a lot on this show about the elite sort of presenting us with pre-approved boxes and i think for a lot of people you do the material atheism thing until you have an experience that shakes that foundation And you look around and all that's there is a conventional abrahamic bearded man in the clouds heaven and hell type of paradigm If you want to relate to other people I mean That's kind of the only way to do it You're not going to relate to the average guy with the weird shit we get into. So I understand that tendency, and how it happens. And I think Dr. Kolbaba is a lot more open-minded than some of those people but generally speaking We do look for those worldviews and sort of swing from one to another like Tarzan uses vines instead I think we kind have to sort of braid our own vines

50:05 Don't just look for boxes, look for models and jump from model to model. I don't think any of them are 100%. But it's good to see the value in them take what is good and discard the rest but the God thing is sort like the realm of politics where people give so much credit and sway to the president as if any governmental political or social effect on their life is direct experience with that president you know what i mean? That's how I feel about chalking every strange experience up to God. You know, Obama didn't find you a job—you went out and put in the work and you found one! The unemployment rate is a factor but it doesn't really have a ton to do with the president himself or YOU yourself If you've been out of work for awhile and someone finds your resume and gives you a job... ...You don't thank Obama for lowering the unemployment rate enough for you to break through

51:01 You could say the president had something to do with the conditions in which you were able to get a job or the chances with what she would have success and maybe there is something called god that we could give credit to some of the conditions with which we are able to help ourselves our consciousness is able to find a guy trapped on a mountain and save his life. But I think the actual spiritual entity we might call God or The Force or whatever is way more removed from your individual experience than we sometimes give it credit for. I mean, I find it difficult to understand how someone could think these experiences relate to some man in the clouds deciding on a whim to let you stay around for a little longer! This concept just makes no sense with all of the death and suffering on this planet

51:50 I mean, in a world where this supposed guardian is letting thousands of Syrians rot in refugee camps and letting millions starve slowly before they even hit puberty. But God just decided to throw you a bone on a Tuesday so you could work at AT&T for a few more years? I mean, I hate to be so critical but it's not like God saves someone and then they transform the world right? Most people just continue to live simple humble lives with corporate jobs. So why would God want to extend your life 10 years just so you can finish out the Avengers movie story arc?!

52:27 Doesn't it make so much more sense that there are aspects of our non-physical selves that we don't understand, that we have abilities in high stress or emotionally heightened situations to do amazing things that defy the conventional worldview? To me, THAT is the best explanation for this seemingly random selection of these paranormal experiences—or whatever you want to call them. Extranormal perhaps? I mean this is the criticism that we've always had of the Abrahamic religions and the Vatican that they take away your power of direct experience. They come in and say, look don't practice magic yourself don't talk to spirits yourself just tell me about it and throw a couple bucks then sure everything's gonna work out for ya I think we're still dealing mentally with who gets the responsibility or the credit for some of these weird things

53:22 I think if you just explore psychedelics a bit or meditation, if you're a bit of a puss. JK! JK! I honestly would just say meditation is like running a marathon and then wading into the water and psychedelics are like rolling out of bed and jumping off the high dive both of them get you there but who has the time and energy to run a marathon when tossing something down my gullet it's just so much easier? I'm not saying that's right or wrong I'm just saying...I know myself And you could also expand these ideas to say the same thing about magic too. How many guests have we talked to out there that seemingly broke reality and got results that defy logic because they recreated the actions in some 500 year old grimoire? More than a handful! It's like The Abyss is right there waiting for you, but honestly magic is very hard too

54:15 If you're going to do it right, and it depends on how you define magic. Some consider just manifesting a sandwich from your refrigerator when you're hungry as a magical act and touche of those people but I'm talking about paradigm breaking ritual magic You know, you hear this term mindfulness a lot. Gotta practice mindfulness? But honestly try to do it for a week like every minute of the day and then think back over the week at all the things you might have wanted to do but didn't I kind of do this a lot now so a week ends and i think wow! I didn't do any exercise that would have taken me about 10-15 minutes a day to do some pushups and sit ups and feel a bit better about myself

54:56 I didn't follow through on some of my magic goals, mapping out the next month's calendar, consulting the astrology for when to best record my interviews, sending out a few sigil shoals. All that's maybe three or four hours worth of stuff I also didn't finish reading any of the books i bought recently. Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules to Life, Charles Forte's The Book of the Damned or the Tom DeLonge Peter Lavenda book that I just wanted to see for myself what it contained Didn't do any of that either! Didn't even crack the covers Where did the time go? Well, I watched the entire Flinttown series on Netflix. There's six hours right there! I watched Wild Wild Country about the cult that took over Antelope Oregon That was about eight hours Probably scrolled my stupid phone for at least two or three hours cumulatively a day Played at least an hour or more of Overwatch pretty much every day

55:49 So there it is. There is so, so much time and to truly practice mindfulness is to really be honest about the choices you make as your making them and recognizing that ya sacrificed a lot of goals you might have had for some filler bullshit And what's the point? Well, I guess my point was that magic takes a lot of effort and planning. And it provides a lot of answers too! And i doubt even 1% of the population truly does that work yet so many people are just sitting around wondering if spirits are real or hearing about other people's experiences and you really could be having your own if you dedicated some time to the exploration

56:27 Would you rather commune with infinite intelligences on the astral plane, invoke a trickster at the crossroads or sigil-shoal your way to a serious level up in life? Or would you rather unlock a new perk in Call of Duty. Like these are decisions we're making every day And I'm not trying to be preachy, Darren and Graham. All right? I'm honestly trying to be convincing enough to take my own advice but i guess i'm just trying to say that even though my own level of understanding is probably like a three on a ten scale, I'm having less patience and less empathy for people who prop up what I consider to be pretty simplistic models when we do have access to all these tools and methods of exploration

57:08 If we didn't, then how could you blame someone? But we do. So you can." And I'm not even trying to pass judgment on anyone specifically who told a story in Dr. Kolbaba's book or Dr. Kolbaba himself. I'm just speaking generally to you guys who are still here after taking that ride I do have respect for people in conventional careers where even these stories raise the eyebrows of their more stoic colleagues, but maybe a big takeaway from this whole experience if i was one of the doctors in the book would be that most of the judgment and criticism is hypothetical or mostly in your head because i doubt it affected the careers of these doctors very much. It's not like they're attacking the bottom line of Big Pharma by coming out against vaccines or anything

57:53 So we should be honest and open about weirdness. I think that fear of judgment culture has been one of the many tools used to keep us from finding the answers, answers that themselves have been naturally elusive made worse by an elite who would rather you just do your goddamn job! I like Dr. Scott, but just to further the point, I asked about some of the data and he was unsure and mentioned that outside of compiling stories for this book he hasn't had a tonne of time because he's raising kids and focused on this demanding career. I get that but if we don't prioritize mysteries of consciousness what do we have time for as Alex might say?

58:34 And again, I'm just as guilty of not finding enough time for that. I think we all are! So it's not a slight per se—just a counterpoint to say we all have more time than we think and we should make room on the priority list for this stuff So I do wish Dr. Kolbaba great success and luck on his journey, it's great that he is working on another book compiling more stories but i would actually like to see him dig deeper into the whys and hows of the stories he already has We got enough material to talk about what happens but we still need to flesh out those whys and hows Many more beings could be answering those prayers It ain't always Jesus In fact what if its never Jesus?

59:19 Regardless, I'm also aware that not everyone thinks like me and everyone is at a different point in the journey. And Dr Scott's book is a real great crowbar to pry open the doors a lot of us out there have shut because of our adoption of conventional models like material atheism for example So many of you have a friend or family member who could use a lighter touch Who could use some breadcrumbs To lead them back to the rest of us Now we don't want to throw them right into the deep end of the pool And for that person in your life, The Good Doctor's book is excellent. Even as just a reminder to ourselves it's nice to have a collection of these stories on the shelf so big thanks to him for being here and doing the work!

59:59 It's a little shorter episode than usual, but we do still have a free and plus split. And Plus members got an extra show entirely this month with Laurie Handerhan's exploration of the pedophile mindset practices and networks obviously a dark one but you're welcome for the extra show! In the plus portion today we talked about Dr. Kolbaba's burning bus story recounting the miracles in our own lives that we might have forgotten Dr. Kolbaba's own experience of Jack Sparrowing it, and how often the good doctor sees the placebo effect and spontaneous healing in his practice

1:00:37 So more fun stories to break that mainstream model. Who doesn't love that? Big thanks to everyone for listening, Solid Month of Shows, Dr Paul LaViolette on anti-gravity crafts pulsars and super waves, Max Egan on social credits and a whole host of other stuff Alex Zakaris talking skeptical consciousness in comedy And John Brisson, the gut fixer himself. And just so you know his protocol has radically reduced my allergy issues about 70% I'd say. I've honestly never been more impressed and the dude knows his shit and he's gonna be back very soon

1:01:14 But I would say it's been a good diverse month of higher side topics and i'll see you next time. Your move moulders the materialist model, quarantiners of consciousness and naysayers of the near-death experience... your fucking move. Oh no You see The world is in randomness Attached to puppet strings Control over nothing The 9 to 5 has tried to steal ya Now don't that job seem silly? Hello, can you hear me Or should I play back recordings From some spying agency Wish we were younger and free

1:02:13 I'll be thankful when it's all exposed, the vast conspiracy. There is such a difference between me and the Denver child. From the highest hanging out of the cracks they'll tune you to stars. of everything that's been done and they'll call my own deception of the web that spins hallow from the higher side The earth is high They'll tell you about something That no one else will Have you heard? Have you heard about the real since the long gone

1:03:28 They're cartoons It's so typical of me to talk about the stuff I'm sorry that's good and well Did you ever hear the argument That nothing really happens? It's no secret And that the best is plumb It's doubling your time I'm a web that's been spawned from the challenging your parents.

1:04:36 And I'll tell you someday that the battle's begun But we can't fight it without the minds where it's won It's worth the while of room, a higher side There are cards they'll tell you what to have done They'll call reception on the web that's been spun

1:05:39 But from the higher side, challenging your path. And I'll tell you that the battle's begun but we can't fight it with fire in our minds where we've won and that's the proof