Dr. Helane’ Wahbeh | The Science Of Channeling, Consciousness, & The Beings Beyond

00:54 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Here we go Irisite Chatters from sunny San Diego, I'm Greg Carlwood and when you really bring together and digest the various views of our guests over the last 10 years and compare them to Western academia or even your average citizen it's easy to forget how different some of our fundamental thoughts on reality really are.

01:40 Things that sound almost too basic at this point, like consciousness is primary and we're all interconnected. And with a well-trained mind we can alter our reality and manifest our deepest desires These are statements that many of us take for granted these days but are comically still pretty radical for those we walk among But when we can take an out-of-the box idea and have it studied in a serious academic way, or take the best tools for determining what's supposed to be true in the world and have them professionally applied to aspects of the so called paranormal by people with all the right qualifications... these things become hard to argue with. And things will be hard to argue with today as we are doing just such a thing with a deep dive into channeling with Dr. Helene Wabe

02:26 She's the Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences and an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Department of Neurology at Oregon Health & Science University. Dr. Wabe completed her undergraduate degree at the University of California, Berkeley in Anthropology and Pre-Medicine She obtained her clinical doctorate at the National University of Natural Medicine. She obtained her Master's of Clinical Research from Oregon Health and Science University, and she also completed two postdoctoral research fellowships Dr. Wabe is the author of some 90 plus peer-reviewed publications and the new book The Science of Channeling Why You Should Trust Your Intuition And The Force That Connects Us All

03:10 She couples this respectable and impressive academic education with the lived experience of being a channeler who comes from a long line of channelers, and it makes for very interesting crossroads. So let's get into it! A professional paranormal investigator, academic of the edges, and teacher of channeling Dr. Helene Wabe Welcome to The Higher Side Thank you so much. It's wonderful to be here with you today, I'm looking forward to connecting about this exciting topic of channeling Yes, this is a real pleasure. I am a big fan of the work that goes on at the Institute of Noetic Sciences Dr Dean Radin is still considered one of my favorite interviews we've done around here and so I try to stay plugged into any new books coming from the ions researchers So when I saw The Science Of Channeling, I knew it was going to be a good fit

04:03 Having someone as credentialed as you applying their talents to this subject is just really exciting. But, as I kind of said in the intro there it seems like you have a personal interest in investigating something like channeling right? That's right! I have a personal background in it that I kept kind of hidden in terms of my academic career but I'm what you might call sensitive... As a child would feel things that maybe others might not feel, see other people's emotions. Spaces felt unique to me and when I was 10 years old my mother actually took me to my grandparents house to what they called meetings and imagine a room with about 30 people sitting in it around in a circle

04:55 And on one side was my uncle who was doing something called trans-channeling. And I looked at him and it was like it wasn't him, he was speaking in a completely different voice He had different mannerisms the topics he was talking about was nothing he would normally say in his everyday life And these meetings actually happened weekly. So that was my introduction into this esoteric world of trans-channeling My mother is a trans-channeler, my uncle and grandmother... Every member of my mother's family has some sort of channeling ability whether it's trans-channeling or something else

05:40 So I grew up with this deep respect, if you will for the esoteric and these experiences that go beyond our traditional five senses. Simultaneously, I was really interested in mind-body connection and how our mind influences our physical body in health and healing. And so that was my path to become a clinical doctor and see patients and eventually getting lured back into research, which I was really excited to get into clinical research and attempt to

06:21 feed my curiosity about how these things worked. And I ended up at Oregon Health and Science University doing mindfulness meditation research, I had a study funded by the National Institutes of Health looking at combat veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder and how Mindfulness meditation worked with them and through that work I was invited to go to the Institute of Noetic Sciences or IONS for this workshop they were doing with meditation researchers. And the question was, what's missing from our Western research around meditation? There are so many other things that people aren't really talking about like these transcendent or oneness experiences or spiritual aspects to meditation that may have been from the origins of meditation in the East but when it was brought to the West

07:19 that kind of got secularized. So I was invited to that work group, we published a great paper that's come out of that and i was exposed to ions And was completely blown away at the courage that they had to ask these questions, fringe questions if you will compared to regular academic research. That people were asking and I just really wanted to be a part of that So fast forward, you know it's been six years now. Unbelievably I'm now in a place where i can bring this personal background and apply my research training to it so when i got to ions i got really excited about building on the work they've already done and others have done to create this ions channeling research program and that's where we ask

08:18 we're asking questions, important questions about channeling and using the scientific rigorous methods to attempt to answer them. And I'm sure we can go into that in a lot more detail but that's a bit about my story of how i ended up here today talking to you about this topic I love it, quite a ride you've been on. And I wanted to read this quote where you summarize your family's views on their trans-channeling You write... My grandfather considered it his life's work to unravel our spiritual selves and examine what happens to us after we die He wrote a book called Life After Death based on his research and understandings Growing up in this atmosphere, I learned that my family members believed several things about trans channeling

09:08 Their trans-channeling was consensual. They could say no or stop it at any time, they set intentions for only positive high level beings to come through the channeler, they were guarded by spirit guides, the guides were gatekeepers and directed which beings came in this spirit guide team's sole purpose was to guide their assigned human to wake them up to their true self and path of their higher selves choosing Envisioning themselves surrounded by white light and pure, loving intentions acts as protection. This ensures that no malevolent energy or beings could harm them. This came with the assumption that some beings were of lower vibrations who did not have positive intentions that potentially could hurt them." And that's a pretty good framework for how I think a lot of people think about channeling. Would you say

10:03 you found that to be consistent among the channelers you worked with and studied outside of your family? Yes, so those descriptions are really focused on trans-channeling which is a type of channeling. I want to back up a little bit and just share a little bit about my definition of the general term channeling. So i use kind of a broader definition that is the process of revealing information and energy not limited by our conventional notions of time and space, and that it can appear receptive and also expressive. And so this umbrella term encompasses a wide variety of channeling phenomenon like intuition gut hunches

10:53 Precognition or knowing the future clairvoyance are seeing beyond our physical eyes Also known as remote viewing and then the more rare experiences I think are things like mediumship and trans-channeling. So, i just want to make that distinction between the broader term of channeling which includes all those various types and trans-channeling. In trans-channeling the channeler believes that Their body is essentially used as a vehicle for a non-physical being to speak through them.

11:34 And so what I observed at my grandparents house was trans channeling. And those bullet points that you laid out are related to that phenomenon in general, So back to your question now...so the research studies that i've done with trans-channelers have aligned with those bullet points that I lived with as a child and growing up And, you know I was so kind of isolated in my personal experience for fear of sharing with others. So i actually had no clue that parapsychology has been studying this for 150 years. I had no clue about the spiritualist communities in the U.S., and England and Europe

12:28 And now, the more I learn about the spiritualist communities it's very highly resonant with what I was raised with. The beliefs that my family had and taught me about this phenomenon The trans-channelers, we've done focus groups and laboratory studies. And the channeled messages that come through and the conversations with the channelers themselves also really line up with those bullet points that you shared.

13:04 Right on, that's good to know. And so you end up organizing the IONS Channeling Research Program just a very cool thing to have on your resume. What would you say were some of your most ambitious or fruitful experiments or sessions in this overall program? One of the things that we're curious about is how channeling works and we don't really know how it works and we're trying to explore that. So one thing we did for that focus group that I mentioned with transchannelers, it was over a few days, we had five transchannelers and we had multiple sessions over those three days. And what we did was we put something called a random number generator in the corner of the living room

14:00 to see if it would detect shifts in the environment during our channeling sessions versus the non-channeling sessions. So just to describe this device in a little bit more detail, We have a version of these random number generators called quantum noise generators. So essentially it's just continuously spitting out random noise, random data and there is nothing that should really allow that to deviate from the randomness

14:36 And so, you know you mentioned Dean Radin. He's done many different studies on this and researchers for decades have done this in the lab where they ask people to direct their intention towards these devices and see if the data becomes less or more random. We also see this in field experiments like at Burning Man or there's the Global Consciousness Project run by Princeton Engineering and Anomalies Research Lab by Roger Nelson that has these devices all over the world. So these devices have been used for a number of different types of consciousness experiments so we had these in the corner of the room and it had 16 channels, so 16 channels of random noise being spit out

15:29 And we compared that data when we were sitting in the living room doing channeling sessions versus sitting in the living room not channeling. When we looked at that data and we looked at the shift from randomness, we saw there was significant differences between the two conditions. During the channeling, there was increased order meaning that there was less randomness in the data when people were channeling versus not channeling and we saw this when we compared the data across the 16 channels which you might think of changes in space and also within the channel

16:17 So over time in the data of that channel, which you might think of shifts in time. And so the take home message of that results of that study was that there was this idea that perhaps there's an increased coherence in space and time during channeling versus not. So why I brought this study up when you asked about my most interesting findings, this was so incredible and wonderful for me because I can feel the shift in environment when I'm in a room with them whether we're channeling or not channeling. To have an objective

16:58 measurement device be able to actually perceive that as well was quite remarkable. So this was one study we're excited to continue using this device, we actually did it for an energy medicine study where we saw shifts again towards increased coherence during energy medicine healing sessions compared to non-healing sessions. And we continue to use these quantum noise generators in various other studies around consciousness

17:37 Yes, that is really interesting stuff. And I've listened to several interviews you've given as well as read the book and i've heard you talk about...I think it was the energy medicine study where you have these people engaged in the activity and at least one of them was a seer who saw beings come into the room and I guess tinker with people little bit, and of course not all channelers are seers but man it would be really interesting to get a group of sears and then see if their observations match up objectively or not. I mean i could see it going either way to tell you the truth with so many

18:17 different sources for the information. People think it comes from their higher self, from God, from angels and other beings so even people who have this ability they still aren't sure where it comes from I wonder if that translates to their actual like second sight? I guess we could call it but that is really interesting that one person in the room had that ability and did notice something! Is that right? That's right. So we published the results of that study, I guess it was last year now and we had almost 200 patients who had hand and wrist pain and they were treated by 17 energy medicine practitioners from various types of energy medicine lineages if you will Reiki

19:10 shamanic and intuitive etc. So 17 different healers, almost 200 different participants they gave a 30 minute session so there was one clairvoyant seer who was present for all of those sessions in the electromagnetically shielded chamber where these sessions were happening and she took notes during the sessions about what she perceived was going on with her external sight, like actually seeing it with her channeling eyes if you will and also mental images in her mind. And we did a qualitative analysis of all of her writing and came up with some really fascinating findings. We considered that an exploratory study

19:59 But some of the themes that came up were these beings like you mentioned, that she was perceiving in the room that were helping the process. You know various ways that the energy was moving to clear blockages, various ways that there was energy moving into the participants' energy field So we've published the results on that so you can find that on our website. But the major criticism of that case study was that it was just one seer, so it's just a filter of her scene if you will. Right. It is the next step like you mentioned where like what if we got a bunch of seers to do this? We actually just finished the follow-up study of this and

20:46 We had 40 sessions, so 40 participants received a 30 minute session from Reiki masters. And instead of having one seer in the room, we had six seers in the room and they were all observing the sessions. We collected their observations in a number of ways. We had them do a checklist of review of symptoms of the participants so what was going on there endocrine system, their nervous system, their circulatory system. So they filled out a checklist and then during the sessions they actually drew on this stock figure of a human kind of drew the way they perceived that energy moving during the actual session we had video cameras recording everything that they were drawing and then after the session they had some time to write out

21:45 with words what they saw during the session. So we're very, very deep into the analysis of this work now I've gone through and reviewed i think it's about half the drawing pages and it's quite remarkable to see the similarities of what the seers were actually drawing and some of them are quite unique you know like maybe seeing Like a symbol, like one session four out of the six seers drew like a bunny rabbit. And it's like why would they draw that? It was quite incredible!

22:27 The results for this obviously are not completely done yet, but we're excited to be able to see if these can validate in some way the ways that C or See in terms of the similarities between them and also learn about the differences. And you know perhaps the way one sees is a little bit different but the meaning that they ascribed to it could be similar so I haven't looked at the written words for what that bunny means, but what if all of them put the same meaning as well?

23:04 We also pulled out all the symbols from the drawings and the writings, and emailed it to the participants. And said hey do these symbols mean anything to you? And had them respond to that. Those results have been quite fascinating too so I'm really excited to see what this study will reveal in terms of clairvoyancy. You know people also use this in medical intuitive capacities. And we're trying to raise some funding now so we can do a study that's more clinically oriented in hospitals, to be able to use medical intuitives which is I think another way of saying seer clairvoyant seer because they're seeing physically into the body what's going on and to be able to use those in clinical setting

23:58 These practical applications of our non-local consciousness is what's going to move this field forward in a major way. Yes, I totally agree. And what great timing to ask you about this and have this interview today after actually finishing that study that I just think is mind-blowing. Witnesses to pretty mundane situations still have a decent amount of variance to their reporting of events so I would expect that also carry over into something so strange and seemingly subjective but that is really fascinating

24:38 you know my primary interest in channeling is probably intel into the spirit world i imagine it. As if you were to go back to before we had cross continental travel on the planet but there was an open phone line and i just imagine people picking up asking, So what's it like over there? I've never been there. And you know, if I had this strong connection to some kind of being that is primarily what I would want to know, what is the spirit world like how do you operate in it? Are you outside of time and space entirely? Do you get bored? You know can you help us get a handle on any of these questions given how embedded you've been in these kinds of things? This is such a huge and

25:27 pivotal topic. Obviously as humans, you know one common thing that we all have is that we're gonna die- We're going to leave this physical body and so of course what happens to us after that happens is a topic of great interest to all of humanity! We also know what our spiritual traditions teach us around that today in the western world people are less religious you know, they call themselves spiritual but not religious. So you know we can certainly look at what religions teach us We can also look at what people actually believe happens to them after they pass. We finished a survey recently where we asked these exact questions What do you think happens to you after you die?

26:24 and what part of you actually survives. So in the parapsychology community, there's this huge debate over is it actually survival? Like does the Helene that is me in this moment with my personality and my memories and my goals and intentions actually survive intact after my physical body passes Or is it some sort of less personal survival where it's just like this transcendent oneness state of awareness without the identity or personality or memories? So there's one aspect of exploring this survival

27:12 our consciousness after physical death. We also asked people, you know what they think happens? Like what do they actually do where do they go and in terms of the results of that survey we found that I think it was about 95 percent of the people we polled believed in some type of survival of consciousness in terms of where they went, the highest rated were going to some sort of

27:48 afterlife living or reincarnation in some form. There are also some answers about coming back to earth and you know supporting people who are still on the planet, so that study is going to be published in a book that's sponsored by the Society for Psychical Research about Is there life after death? So I think one of the best books that sums this up from a scientific lens was by David Fontana. He wrote an incredible book that i'm blanking the title on, I think it's actually just called Is There Life After Death? And then he did a follow-up book that reviewed

28:35 much content of channeled information and mediumistic information, and looked at the commonalities between what happens after we pass. And so I would recommend the listeners to check that out if they're interested you know what happens immediately? You know what do people see in terms of like bright light that a lot of near-death experiencers talk about. These kind of transitional zones and different layers of the afterlife, different stages and layers in what happens in each of them is quite fascinating

29:18 Right right the only thing maybe more fascinating than what happens when we die is how we even get here in the first place It's just such a weird mystery this physical reality And what do you think about? The lives of beings on the other side that don't seem to be dead humans like angels or guides are land spirits or pan. When you talk to channelers or occultists, which I sometimes do they seem to think there's no limit to the energies and the disembodied consciousnesses that you could tap into who...I'm curious what your thoughts are on things that live in the spirit world that aren't apparently aren't dead people of the past?

30:05 Yes, when we survey channelers about the source of their information. So we've done this for trans channelers and mediums and also for people who have more general channeling experiences You know the mediums and the trans-channelers are more likely to choose that their sources are deceased humans but also other multi-dimensional beings, what they might call off world allies. Also group beings you know that they believe is a group of discarnate beings that have a spokesperson that's being channeled through them

30:51 similar to what your listeners, you said your listeners hear about we also hear about that as well through our research. When we did our Mount Shasta focus group with our five transchannelers there were 21 different supposed beings that were coming through so when the channeler would go into their trans state and would begin speaking you know he'd say okay who are you where are you from And there were 21 different beings that were supposedly coming through them from multiple different star systems also.

31:30 So, you know it's interesting when you ask me this question because I can answer it with my scientist hat on and I can say. You know we really would the tools we have right now We can't prove that definitively in any way what the source actually is so that's my answer from a scientific lens, right? And I look forward to continuing this work so that we can develop tools to see if we can actually verify this in some way. But right now there's really no way to verify it. Middle ground is...I invite people because people always ask me you know is this real or not real? Can I actually believe whether its real or not real

32:22 And the advice that I give them is to attempt as best they can to be in a place of neutrality and equanimity around it, neither believing nor disbelieving. But being more focused on the message itself to see if it resonates with them and can support them in their daily lives in some way let our ego get stuck on the actual, oh this is Archangel Michael or oh this is Mary Magdalene. Or Oh! This is an alien etc to not get stuck on that so then personally you know I don't know how many channeling sessions I've experienced in my life

33:07 and with my relatives. I have had my own deceased relatives supposedly come through and share things with me that no one else knew My personal experience of it has been so incredibly profound, And there's no motivation for my relati- like they aren't making any money off of it There's like... No motivation for them to fake it! And there is such stark Differences in the different personalities that are coming through, I can't come up with another explanation other than there's some likely different energetic

33:52 being that is communicating in this way somehow. And in terms of, you know not just deceased humans I think it's very arrogant to think that we are the only sentient beings in the universe and that it completely makes sense to me that there would be other other beings elsewhere in the world and the likelihood that they are more advanced than us and have tapped into the ability to communicate through their consciousness in a non-local way is kind of a no-brainer in my personal perspective. Yeah, so I agree with that if we can project our consciousness out and there's anything else out there on another physical planet you would assume it has the same ability and so maybe that's how Consciousness to consciousness We get linked up sometimes and it's just a very strange world but yes as you mentioned that Mount Shasta group they talk about

34:56 being tapped into beings and they ask him where these beans are from. They say the Pleiades, Sirius, Arcturus, Orion as you mentioned 21 or so different places it is so wild I guess once you get out of your own way you really start to realize that there's a giant soup out there of consciousness is floating around and if you have kind of like an animus worldview that all things are conscious, you can extend that two animals possibly plants maybe even crystals maybe even stars it gets quite weird

35:34 It does, it's incredible. I mean one of the remarkable things that was shared in that Mount Shasta group and the transcripts are available for people through the research avenues was one of the channelers was talking about the consciousness of, I think it was photons or electrons and they were talking about this physics experiment and the colliders. And they're like if only the physicists knew that these electrons have consciousness in there trying to blast them apart!

36:11 It was quite fascinating to hear that. And then, you know what do you do with that? I can't imagine going to CERN and saying, You need to connect with the consciousness of these beings which is quite amazing! The other thing personally that has... at the end of that weekend, I was just so blown away by profundity of it all. And it makes my petty worries of my daily life just really go away, you know? It's like when you take that much broader view of our universe I think it's very humbling and it also

36:58 It allows me to be more focused, I think on higher goals and values in my life than getting worried about these small details. Mm-hmm. Wise words! And I did have a quote here about the Mount Shasta group where you say some of these communicators described what their worlds were like. Our world feels like love, celebration, upliftment and the constant eagerness to learn and teach. They described their body as similar to a star like a vibration with balanced masculine and feminine aspects they said they communicate with each other telepathically but not with words they use packets of information or blocks of thought

37:46 And in the future, humans will apparently be able to see these non-physical beings with our physical eyes. And that is quite provocative! Can you tell us any more particularly about that last part? Why would we be able to see them in the future and how long do we have to wait?" I know, that's a great question. That's often asked and when people are always want to know that when they're supposed extraterrestrial intelligences coming through too. It's like, okay well if you're all around and you're wanting to support humanity then why aren't you showing up? And the channeled answers that I get is soon-soon but of course I believe their multi-dimensional timings different than human time, human linear time so i don't know when that soon will be

38:40 But there's this perspective that humanity is not quite ready as a whole for that to happen. And you may have interviewed others or heard about various contact experiences that people all over the planet are having, and that the people who are perhaps more open and curious and ready to have those experiences are. but that there's not a spaceship landing on the lawn of the White House because that sort of very front-facing reality would be too overwhelming for many people on the planet and would inspire fear, and people going into their fight or flight

39:28 Defensive posture that could create damage. And so the idea is that until all of humanity is in a space where they won't go into that and create violence and damage to humanity, and perhaps the visitors That it's not going to happen in such an open way But we do hear so much from various people about having direct experiences of this. One of the channelers from the Mount Shasta group actually led groups where they would go and meditate near Mount Shasta with the intention of inviting extraterrestrial intelligences to come show them some sign, and they would often have various

40:20 I know they're not called UFOs anymore. Unidentified Aerial Objects or something is the new acronym that they would see those and I know that there's groups around the world that are doing similar things so it's like this grassroots direct experience if you will making into a seeing perhaps we can have it be a reality for the whole world but not quite yet Absolutely these reasons that you just gave for why they are fully. Helping us out yet or quite common here them all the time and also that notion of well it's coming soon we're gonna raise the vibration of love and light then we're all gonna have a big burning man party cross dimensionally or something like that is what is starts to sound like but,

41:12 It doesn't feel soon to me when I look at like kind of what drives most people's feelings about life. Our education system certainly isn't preparing them for this kind of reality, our culture dismisses it and laughs at it and our media is incredibly fear-based especially over the last year and a half not to talk about that whole thing but fear is at all time high it doesn't seem like the mechanisms that influence people the most at all turning towards pushing them towards love and light. It seems like the things that we're all tapped into in our general culture are pushing more and more fear, maybe there's a breaking point I guess we could hope for that eventually it goes so far comes out the other side but I don't know just seems strange I wonder if there ever was a time where we were in the right

42:08 frequency of love and vibration where things were more apparent to us. We have these old legends and myths of fairies, elves, kelpies, people seeing little sprites or elementals or forest spirits... It's possible perhaps that maybe that frequency vibration that we're longing for actually did overlap with a section of humanity's past? What do you think about that?" Yeah, I think that's likely true. There are examples of channeling phenomenon throughout recorded history and we also see hieroglyphs in Egypt of angels visiting and people with wings and all these unique things so you look at shamanistic traditions many indigenous worldviews hold this

43:06 vision of a more holistic, interconnected reality. And it's almost like you know through the industrial age and technology rising it was suppressed and diminished and right now we're in this very unique era if you will because we're straddling two paradigms the materialistic paradigm through science that supposes that the only thing that is real is material things, right? That nature of reality is very physical and non-physical

43:55 is not part of our worldview. And so that's why I think we get so much pushback and taboo around channeling phenomenon, is because there's no explanation for how telepathy could work or how we could possibly know the future if time is linear and were separated by space. So we are moving into a post-materialistic paradigm where we see that actually consciousness is non-local and can act in non local ways. And what I mean by that is it can act beyond time and space, you know? We can have telepathy experiments where we see instantaneous results. We see experiments where our intention affects things thousands of miles away instantaneously

44:50 So when we did this genetic study where we looked at the genetics of people who were highly psychic compared to controls and area of the DNA in the non-coding region of chromosome 7 that all of the psychics had and seven of the nine controls had. And what was so fascinating about this was that it was the original version of that code, and the controls had a mutated version So the psychics had this original version of this DNA

45:32 And when we looked at the expression of that portion in the general population, in relation to the spread of Christianity. We saw that it was weeded out if you will, in countries where Christianity was stronger and of course we know what happened with persecution of witches etc anyone who had these type of abilities were persecuted The other thing we noticed was that the rise in technology also weeded out this original form. And so, you know this was also a pilot study but it really supports this notion that channeling is an innate capacity of all humans and

46:25 pressures from various pieces like technology, etc. have pressurized our genetics to move away from that if you will So, I do believe that humans have this innate capacity that we've likely had it through time. Evolutionarily it makes sense that we would perceive beyond our five senses and that would ensure our survival if we could sense when the line was coming or there was some danger approaching us that it would support us to thrive

47:05 So I still hold to that in our research and our premise at ions, that we all have this innate capacity to access this inner knowing these channeling phenomenon and support the work to discover exactly how that works what it looks like. And how can really use in our daily lives? So many great things to chew on there. I think there is a real strong connection between technology and consciousness that shouldn't be overlooked i mean how many of us still remember phone numbers from when we were a kid of the guy down the street because we needed to know it to contact that guy where is today you know if u ask me my wife's phone number it's a fifty fifty shot on right away without having to look at up and its just like yeah that is a effect

48:03 on the mind that has to do with technology and then with social media it's getting even crazier how it's affecting the development of minds and where is the line between what we. Can actually study in the materialist paradigm about the mind and happiness levels and emotional states and memory, and then also the aspects of mind and consciousness that they don't even recognize exist. And like definitely aren't looking at how those things are affected. I do have some pretty out there questions for you about technology and channeling that we might get to but i didn't want to end this first hour without getting into that

48:43 Question of are there defining characteristics of someone who channels easily and also how we can increase our own channeling potency for people who are listening. And they're like yeah i think this exists how do i get engaged with it what have you found to be true in those regards how would you help someone whose thinking about taking the leap There's a number of ways that we can do that. So one is to meditate, so meditation is actually one of the strongest predictors we found so far in people who have channeling experiences People who meditate do better on laboratory tasks and they also have channeling experiences during meditation

49:33 So meditation is one. Another one is belief, so paranormal belief or belief that you actually can do this is also a strong predictor to having those experiences. Another one is openness to experience and just being open and aware of channeling in your own experience of those phenomenon also supports that effort In my work with people and hearing their stories, intention also plays a very strong role. And we know from the psychokinesis studies that Dean Radin and others have done that our intention does matter and where we direct our intention makes a difference. So if someone believes if they have some mental training to work with their

50:31 thoughts in their mind and their openness to the experience, there's no reason why they couldn't learn to channel in some way. I've spoken to a number of different teachers who teach telepathy, psychokinesis, trans-channeling And they also believe that they can teach anyone to do so. Doesn't mean that they're all going to be excellent, it's kind of like saying and everyone can learn how to play basketball but that doesn't mean everyone is going to be a professional NBA player. So everyone can learn how to channel at some level in some form

51:09 And using that clear intention, nurturing their practice of it will go a long way for them to experience it. Well said and I guess what we would call occult practices they've been so demonized as scary and dangerous and of course we're talking about kind of a quarantined Type of channeling where you do bring in protection and all that kind of stuff. So like we're talking about some safe stuff, but it's interesting that you find there a lot of positive effects on people's well being when they do incorporate this into their life I think that might surprise some people

51:51 That's right. In all of the surveys we've done and all the studies I've read that others have done, people for the most part have positive impact from having channeling experiences in their lives and this is from you know people who have general intuition all the way to mediums and trans-channelers. Their quality of life improves they're well adjusted they're highly functioning it brings meaning often purpose to their daily lives, to have these channeling experiences. You mentioned the occult and the negative pieces I do want to give the caveat that in some cases and these are rare people do have negative experiences where the channeling happens too often it's really strong it disrupts their daily life they

52:46 They feel negative emotions from it. And so my advice, if any listeners are experiencing that or know anyone who is to advise them to reach out and get help and get mental health support or spiritual advisor support to support them with that. So helpful normative channeling experiences should be a positive aspect in people's lives. I also want to touch on this piece of fear because you mentioned that in terms of our culture and the story, kind of the dominant story that we see in the media. And fear is such a powerful force to shut down our curiosity it physiologically literally changes our body. We go into

53:45 In our autonomic nervous system, it triggers our sympathetic nervous system which puts us in this fight or flight state. When you're in that state, it shuts down your prefrontal cortex which is our higher mind of discernment and critical thinking and creative problem solving and puts our mind into this very emotional fear defensive survival mode. And when you're in that mode, it's hard to see a big picture. It's hard to be compassionate for other people around you and it really creates this sort of us-them and fleeing from the danger energy so I feel like this story of fear

54:38 hinders us as individuals and as a culture physically because it affects our nervous system, it suppresses our immune system. Emotionally because it just creates this separation and fear and anxiety in people and the sequelae of that we just are seeing rampant around our inner world right now so People might think it's very naive of me to say, shift your story. How can you find a way to be in a love-based compassionate state that people might criticize and say oh that's just new age woo woo talk? And yet

55:25 When you're in that state, it improves your quality of life. It boosts your immune system. You are able to think more clearly be more critical, be more creative and it empowers you to actually cooperate and work with others instead of getting into this divisive us-them fighting for your survival so I think this is a really important message to get out to people and that channeling supports that because it inspires us to be empowered from within, from an internal knowledge source rather than always looking outside of ourselves for the answers. And today unfortunately the outside of ourselves is full of this story of fear which is not very supportive

56:20 Yes, cheers to all that. I'm so glad you said what you said because i've had similar thoughts when Not to get too specific into everything going on, but occasionally you'll see someone out there who's wearing goggles masks gloves and carrying hand sanitizer on their hip or something like that. And I will just think I understand that you want to protect yourself and be safe but what kind of mental state are you in? To be going to those lengths like the furthest out lengths and the irony is what you need to maybe do is work on your mental state if you want to improve your immune system and improve your chances of being in good health because it's not all about the physical things you can do. It's also about thinking in the right way. Yes, thinking in the right way and I don't know why our media is so focused on the negative and fear. Maybe that sells

57:25 gets higher rankings or whatever. But you know, what's not present in our conversations is hey how do I exercise more easily? How do i eat better? Just these very basic simple self-care that is like massive amounts of evidence that supports our health and well-being Instead of, you know okay how do I live in a hazmat suit to protect myself? It's like what are the other things i can do to protect myself so that my body is in homeostasis. In this really optimal functioning balance between all of my body systems including the mental emotional that supports me

58:17 in being safe when I am exposed to any pathogens that are around me. And, I'm not saying that's the only answer but what i'm highlighting is that conversation is like pretty much completely missing from the dominant storytelling in our media. Well said! Totally agree and Before we run out of time, I also just wanted to see if you could give us an overview of what some of the other scientists and staff at IONS are studying and working on because i think it's a really great organization. Funding the things that we want to expand in the world has never seemed more important. If people did decide to become members or donate to IONS what sort of things are they supporting?

59:06 Thank you, that's a great opportunity. We have a number of research programs one is called the Ions Discovery Lab and that's where we are looking at our guiding premise that we are all interconnected and embodying that allows us to access information and energy from beyond time in space and profoundly amplifies transformation well-being and innovation So we look at the different factors of that before and after personal workshops, various workshops sound healing meditation etc. If you have an offering that you offer

59:49 We can actually study that by giving your participants a survey before and after the workshops to give you our report. And then that goes into a larger database to help us understand the relationships between those three factors, interconnectedness, channeling and well-being. The second larger research program we call IONSx, A lot of what we've been talking about today are intention affecting the physical world and the practical applications of that. So Dean Radin, our chief scientist is spearheading those efforts and we have a number of different studies looking at intention affecting the physical world

1:00:36 We also have the IONS Channeling Research Program, which we talked a lot about today. We have Arno DeLorme who is a world-renowned neuroscientist EEG specialist that is focused on mediumship studies and how to verify those as part of the channeling research program. We have our molecular biologist Garrett Yount who is working on the genetics of psychic ability and lucid dreaming, and how we can influence health and healing through lucid dreaming.

1:01:13 And then we also have Loren Carpenter, who is actually the co-founder of Pixar and won an Academy Award for his computer science animation. He's our maker and is supporting our work around developing devices that can measure Big C consciousness, measure perhaps these multi-dimensional beings in different ways. Then finally We have our noetic signature program, which is kind of couched in our channeling program. And I've alluded to this but the noetic signature is a little bit like a noetic Myers-Briggs so we believe everyone has the innate capacity to tap in and the way we've talked about but that the way it shows up for people is unique to them. So we've developed an inventory

1:02:08 that people can take and then they get a report that shows where they lie on 12 different characteristics of channeling experiences. And then they can use that information to nurture and support their capacities, perhaps take classes that we offer ourselves, IONS does or with our partners and explore their noetic signature and how that can help them in their daily lives. So, that's a brief overview we're really about this handshake between science and direct experience and with both of those We can bring this work forward into the world

1:02:54 Yeah, yeah. Really great stuff and that survey sounds like one I should definitely take to find the right tools for... Everybody has learning styles. You would think that maybe you have channeling styles too, so take a survey and learn about it." That's right! Exactly. I love it. Very cool and as for yourself of course the new book is called The Science of Channeling. I don't know if there's a particular place that is most advantageous for people to get the book? Books are pretty easy to get but maybe you have some information there or maybe there's anything else that the audience should know any links to give them anything like that?"

1:03:31 I invite everyone to go to our website, noetic.org Please get hooked into our email list so you can learn about all the studies and experience offerings we have on our website You'll find all of our peer-reviewed publications, you'll find blogs and webinars that are free to our community so that you can learn more about this work and perhaps even participate in some of our studies. The book is available at all your normal sources, Amazon, Bookstore, Barnes & Noble and I hope that you

1:04:14 find it enlightening in terms of offering you a big picture resource guide to come out of the channeling closet if you are in there and feel comfortable having conversations about this with other people, knowing that you are truly not alone. And that there is a huge wealth of information supporting these as real, quote, phenomenon and that we can just continue this exciting exploration into the nuances of how it works, who can do it and how. And how we can really integrate it into our lives to help us every day.

1:04:58 Well said. Thank you! Great way to end, so this has been a real pleasure you have such an impressive resume and we're lucky to have you advancing such an important and underdeveloped aspect of life thanks for taking the time to talk to me and keep up the great work thank you so much it's been a pleasure Yes, people! Dr. Wabe for the win! What a unique and impressive background from the personal to the professional... ...to merging both in a very unique and creative way It seems pretty clear that she's right where she should be with ions And doing what she seems destined to do Use the language and processes of science To bring people back to a practice that might be as ancient as humanity itself

1:05:49 But you have to approach people where they are, and who knows how many academics and professionals will take a look at her work out of curiosity. And in turn start accepting channeling and other side effects and consciousness as all very real When we talk about coming out the other side of where we are now into the dominant of wider inclusion and this feeling that many people have, that materialism will have nowhere to go but to fizzle out as many of the sacred cows in the western world fall by the wayside. It's shows like this that make me think that is actually happening

1:06:28 It's books like hers coming out in this time, watching ions grow, watching anthroposophists doctors rise in prominence and natural paths. It all makes me think that these are the people changing the world It's like each new book, each new voice I learn about. It all drops in the bucket Dean Radin's Magic is Real Dr Wabe's Science of Channeling Len McTaggart's Power of Eight Dr Pollock's Fourth Phase of Water Dr Cowan's Cancer and the New Biology of Water and Human Heart Cosmic Heart Each one is another drop a water in the bucket and eventually it will overflow

1:07:10 And I'm actually quite jazzed up and honored and humbled to even be a small part of that. And i'm learning right along with you guys, honestly! I'll never be the scientist or the researcher who's doing the actual work but I have built a place where intelligent open-minded people who are attracted to alternative models can learn about them and see what I think is a pretty high-level case get made for them, and then take it forward as part of their own model. And it all moves the needle. It all affects the field. It all puts us ahead of the people who are so attached to the dominant of science just to stick with Charles Fort's terminology because when you are attached to anything that you start to see flaws in religions political parties models for how reality works

1:08:02 It can be a difficult thing to process for a lot of people. So while other folks try to wrap their heads around these changes, we're already there! This process might even take a decade or so but we're on a pretty accelerated track here at THC And it seems like the next decade is going to have so many challenges, I'm just happy that for a lot of us the collapsing of our conception of reality itself isn't going to be layered on top of everything else. We can at least rest easy there right? Even if you haven't had a lot of these things like magic and channeling and spirits and energy healing proven to you on a personal basis

1:08:45 Just being open to these things and prepared for that confirmation makes it a lot easier to process if it does come along. Take it from the guy who was a very loud, arrogant annoying atheist until the day Salvia rubbed my face in the carpet! To wrestle with that at 35 would be a lot harder than 25 just on a base level and then add everything going on and the stress and tension people are feeling today Do you really want to have no sound footing at all? Feels like that would be a lot. It's good for ya to have a position you hold dear shattered completely, it makes you a lot more humble, it makes you second guess things before your mouth off and it makes you less judgmental of other people's worldviews and positions on things At least those are the effects it had on me And I'm sure I'm not alone

1:09:42 So yeah, I really appreciate the work she does and everyone at IONS. It's one of the few groups that i am a contributing member slash donor to. I hope this show can continue to have a symbiotic relationship with them! I know they have a lot more coming out and I'd be happy to do what I do and help them get the word out in time...I don't think it's going too far to say build out the new model as the current one shows its age and inaccuracies I'm just saying. Stay awake, be ready you do not know the hour when The Dominant of Wider Inclusion is coming but as always the first hour of this show lays the base and the second hour fills the space we got to so much more with the extra time You might as well sign up if you're interested in these interviews they only get better as they go along this week and every week plus i could use a hand but don't do it for me Do It For You Today We Got To Talk About

1:10:43 The dominant story of fear in our media and the omission of real self-care, spirit guides and tapping into your team, technology & ideas from the other side. associated remote viewing, psi effects and channeling outside of the Western bubble, channeling information about our past or future, principles of intention and manifestation, and the connection between Sir Francis Bacon and Micro PK. Figure that one out if you didn't hear The Second Hour! But action-packed and commercial free as always, thanks to the plus people out there who make it all possible. And big thanks again to our guest Dr. Helene Wabe A definite light in the darkness I had a good time if you're still here i assume you did too but that does it for this one! I'm getting out of here...I've done my part Your move consciousness contradictors channeling challengers and arrogant agents of the materialist model

1:11:45 You're fucking good. I ain't gonna take none of your proving round. And I can't stand no putting me down. Yes, I'm all on you. Yes, you're mine. The highest I've ever known

1:14:38 You're not afraid to do the time, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh!