Dr. Gregory L. Little | Origins Of The Gods, Sentient Plasma, & Shamanic Contact

01:38 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation. I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chat Rock me like a hurricane, people! From sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood. And it's a little crazy how much mystery remains in life when we watch the same sitcoms over and over and sedate ourselves with the endless digital scroll of the smartphone We somehow take for granted how much of The Great Unknown is left and rarely let our curiosity drive our nearly never-ending opportunities for adventure

02:28 It's easy to feel like it has all been done, but when we only see 5% of the electromagnetic spectrum and people are having paranormal experiences of a vast variety there is still more mystery left on the table. Disc-shaped physics defined crafts orbs of light fairies elementals angels mothmen little green guys thunderbirds skinwalkers and more oh my And although people have pondered for years what the real meat of these experiences might be, we haven't had a great deal of fresh perspectives on it lately. That is until the latest book by The Great Dr Gregory L Little and Andrew Collins Origins Of The Gods, Keesom Caves, Skinwalkers and Contact With Transdimensional Beings

03:10 It connects all the right dots and I'm sure you're going to love it. As for Dr Little, he has a master's degree in experimental psychology and a doctorate in counseling and educational psychology from Memphis State University He is the author or co-author of over 30 books and 40 treatment workbooks. He has been here twice before first talking about another book he coauthored with Andrew Collins titled Denisovan Origins Hybrid Humans Gobekli Tepe and The Genesis Of The Giants Of Ancient America And then again last year talking about the incredible Edgar Cayce, his uncanny diagnostic accuracy and the Atlantis readings. It's a real pleasure to have him back and break open the case made in Origins of The Gods so let's do it! The North American Mound Master, Edgar Cayce Educator & Paranormal Puzzle Solver, Greg Superior How you doing man? Welcome back

03:59 Holy cow, what an introduction. You even called me great that's I need to get a copy of this to play it for my wife over and over and over particularly when she goes to bed. I just want to play it and let her hear it over and over that I'm so grateful thank you so much pleasure be here and then I don't know how many other people you've had three times? I was actually kind of surprised but I know this book is different I will say this, that back in 1984 in a book that I published then called The Archetype Experience. I said then that I thought plasmas and earth-based energies were the key to all of it and Andrew actually wrote some things back at the exact same time essentially saying the same thing so we both were on the same trail this whole time. I have been into UFO's since the 1970s

04:55 It's not what I'm best known for, but anyway it's a pleasure being here and we'll see where it goes Greg. And you have my deepest sympathy new child and having work done an all that and I know that its a hectic time for ya. Yeah it is a little crazy over here. I don't have my usual recording environment but the show must go on and I appreciate the kind words if you keep writing such great books of course I am going to ask you come back more than once And so as you might remember and for the listeners context last year I contacted you because in our first interview we touched on your books grand illusions, the spectral reality underlined sexual UFO abductions crashed saucers afterlife experiences sacred ancient ritual sites and other enigmas.

05:42 as well as the archetype experience resolving the UFO mystery and the riddle of biblical prophecy using Jung's concept of synchronicity. And that brief section was great, and I really thought your work into The Paranormal deserved its own interview! You said we have this new book coming out down the road called Origins Of The Gods, and that would be a better time to get into it... So we talked about the incredible Edgar Cayce and Atlantis instead, and I'm glad we did because there was a lot more meat on those bones than I realized. And it was a lot of fun to hear about your personal hunt for Atlantis but we are officially down the road now! The new book is out and this is gonna be a lot of fun You said the magic word right up front and that is plasma That's something that I think piques interest around here

06:29 Let's start by giving the people an overview of your half of the book. How would you set this up? All right Well, I can give a brief overview of the half of the book that I wrote and I will say this Andrew And I both had to cut out massive massive sections My portion of the book is a little over 50 thousand words Andrews is about 55 thousand words that doesn't include references and notes and index and so on. And we were told to keep it at a hundred thousand, and we both wrote about 100000 words. So there's a lot that was not put in there that we may save and put out at a later date. But right now where we're both kind of busy but anyway the very beginning of the book if you look at the very beginning of it where I talked about this 30 some year quest that I've been on

07:22 In the start of it, my wife and I went to a place in Utah called Hovenweep. And Hovenweep is an old Anasazi—not really a good term, Anasazi it should be the ancient Puebloan people—but we went to this site called Hovenweep which is an old Puebloan site We had been there 30 some years ago, but that's how this new book started. We revisited that site and tried to make more sense out of what I was picking up back in the 1980s when we very first visited it. To some extent the book is about trying to explain the entire UFO phenomenon, all the aspects of the paranormal

08:10 When I talk about the UFO phenomenon and the paranormal, I'm also talking about the contactees. Mainly that people in the 1950s and 60s who claimed to contact with aliens and flying saucers. The abductees which is kind of a modern updated version of it. Whitley Strieber would be a really good example of the abductees loads of others though there's loads and loads of abductees And then you have the UFO reports where people see odd and unusual globes of light. Sometimes there's something in those globes of light, and all that is part of this phenomenon. So what Andrew and I wanted to do was try and explain the entire thing. There is no one explanation for everything. For example some of the more recent things going on such as the Tic Tacs

09:05 a lot of this Navy stuff. It's probably not what it appears to be, it is probably something else entirely. I do mention that in my part, I did have to cut out a great deal of it so some of the really deep information about all that is not in the book. I worked for the Office of Naval Research back in the early 1970s, 72, 73 and 74 and had a chance to go to the Pensacola Office of Naval Research facility back then, and talk to some of their researchers. And I was young at the time what I found was that they were engaged in a lot of what we call, I wonder what if research which is like, I wonder what will happen if we do this?

09:51 And I think a lot of what is going on goes back to, I wonder what if research and maybe we'll get some time here to discuss some of that but that's the kind of thing that will probably tick off quite a few people. In this field of trying to explain the paranormal, you have all these ancient reports like ancient aliens. So I want to immediately address that Andrew, of course is on The Ancient Aliens show pretty often almost every episode and Eric Vandonegan who many consider the father of The Ancients Alien Theory

10:29 Eric Vondonikin wrote the introduction of this book. He actually did read it, he likes the content in it and he likes the direction that goes so what I'll do right now is acknowledge that it is very very likely that Earth in fact has been visited by extraterrestrials probably many times however in saying that I have to immediately add that what people are seeing in the skies today are probably not alien craft and that they're extraterrestrial beings. There is clearly something going on, but it's probably not alien craft." So the real proof of ancient aliens doesn't come from the show, doesn't come from the people that pretty much other proponents of it but it comes from the mainstream skeptics

11:28 and probably the most famous and most important skeptic of all time, Carl Sagan. Astronomer Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan in 1963 published an article in a peer-reviewed journal called Space & Science And in that journal, in the article he calculated the odds that there are aliens and advanced civilizations throughout the universe. He figured just as virtually all other astronomers have done this have calculated it's definite. There is life out there some of it probably far more advanced than us some less advanced

12:11 and then he calculated the odds of them actually ever visiting the Earth. In his article is a rather astonishing calculation and statement, He is certain that Earth was certain... He's dead now course but Carl Sagan was certain that earth has been visited in the ancient past And he calculated the number of visits That these aliens made to earth at roughly 10,000. 10,000 times that they visited or monitored what's going on in Earth basically over the last 2 million years." He said they really would have focused on the last two million years

12:54 So if you add all that up and if you do a little bit of division there, you've got an average of one alien visit every 200 years. That's what it comes out to now. What he said in this article was that initially they wouldn't have visited very often but when humans started appearing and at the end of the last ice age they would have increased their visits pretty quickly. And he said, the place to really look for the evidence of this is like go to ancient Baalbek, go to Lebanon in ancient Baalbek or go to the area around Iraq to ancient Mesopotamia." Now, the greatest skeptic of all time wrote that back in 1963

13:40 He didn't start the whole idea of ancient aliens, but I'll tell you what. When you've got Carl Sagan on your side in this... You've got somebody who really everybody respected. Even the skeptics respect Sagan, so do all the what you might want to call true believers. Everybody respected Sagan but Sagan did not believe the modern UFO phenomenon were these aliens visiting there was something else going on there and that's something else is what Andrew and I really wanted to get to in the book So that's kind of my summary of what it's about without getting into the specifics. I'll let you guide me into that if you want to. Sure, sure! I love it and we're already 15 minutes in...I know you are one of those guests who can definitely talk at length and we already mentioned the magic word of plasma and I was going to slowly build up but let's just dive into it because there is so much stuff on the back end yeah that is really really interesting

14:39 Over the course of doing this show for 10 years, we've done many episodes comparing and contrasting aliens and demons. Aliens in fairy folklore, angelic visitations and UFOs, the paranormal and shamanism, the overlaps between the occult and what people are said to be able to do with a pentagram and grimoires, abductees. So there is a lot of weird overlaps in that soup that we have talked about many times as to why they are similar and we might have other stuff going on too like you mentioned but how might plasma be the connective tissue between all these things, these weird experiences people have in the general paranormal soup?

15:27 Okay, so very good question. You really set that up well I love that. I love the way you worded all those things and brought them all in So they all come from a common denominator All of the phenomena you discussed everything from the angels to fairies and demons and all that...all of those come from the same source But they're not all the same thing per se. They're not all the same manifestation, so here's the thing... So for literally hundreds of thousands of years shaman have been engaged in performing rituals to make these other forces manifest

16:08 and to bring them into the open with the hopes that they can manipulate them or control them somehow, or get something out of it. Maybe health or whatever." So my big interest in this was to go into the Native American beliefs about it, the really ancient Native American beliefs. And that is the way that I like to really get into the whole idea of plasma and what's going on. In the book I call these plasma forms time, T-I-I-M-E. Andrew calls the same thing N Beings he takes it a step further so we'll talk about N Beings last but let me explain what time stands for again it's T-I-I-M-E It stands for transient intrusions of intelligent manifesting energy

17:03 transient intrusions of intelligent manifesting energy. So they're always transient, so let's look at a couple of very strange things you have contactees in the 1950s and 60s who claim that flying saucer landed maybe in their backyard maybe on their farmland and they walked out and sometimes it's a beautiful Nordic woman walks out sometimes it some sort of an alien walks out gives them no message but they don't just sit there The percipient or the person who is interacting with whatever this force is they don't run into the house and get a bunch of people in call the neighbors you know everybody comes over and bang on the sides of the ufo no it's always very temporary.

17:45 It's very transient. It doesn't last very long and it's only for the recipient, it's only for those few people that are in the immediate vicinity so it doesn't last long. It is an intrusion because it suddenly appearing in our physical reality our four-dimensional reality with the fourth dimension being time of course in this sense So it's intruding into our reality and into our four dimensions, but only for a brief period of time. It does have intelligence we know that it interacts loads of research by mainstream scientists tell us

18:20 that these, whatever they are, whatever these entities are, they have a form of intelligence. They have some sentience to them. They have some sort of thought process. We can't always understand their motives and that's something we can get into what exactly are they after or what are they doing but they have an intelligence So it's transient intrusions of intelligent manifesting energy. So they are manifesting in our physical reality and they're made out of energy, the type of energy that we believe they are plasmas. Now back in the 1950s and 1960s when plasma was kind of a dirty word in the UFO field

19:06 all that was known about plasmas at that time, that it was just a ball of superheated gas. That's all they knew about it at the time now physicists knew there were a lot of exotic aspects to plasma but they really didn't have a way of studying it then so back in the 60s when some skeptics said oh we believe UFOs are plasma like ball lightning that is what people are saying That actually was considered a really negative thing in the UFO field. The people that speculated about plasmas, Philip Klass and some others were kind of blackballed in the field. People didn't like them as skeptics so plasma became a dirty word today we know a great deal more about plasmas and so let me just get straight into this back in 2007 not too many years ago there were six physicists mainstream physicists who published an article

20:04 in a peer reviewed physics journal called the Journal of New Physics. And in this article, they stated that plasmas have all of the characteristics of being alive They appear to have some sort of intelligence. They appear to interact with us, they appear to multiply or that is to reproduce. They have aspects of evolution in them and here's what they observed in the lab to come to these conclusions number one when the plasma forms now you have to put a whole bunch of energy and they've used lasers to do this a whole bunch of energy into a small space

20:48 to create this ball of superheated gas. And what happens there is that it becomes so energetic that electrons are torn off of the atoms in the gas and the electrons begin swirling, and then there is an electromagnetic field almost like a shield or or a cell wall. You know, our body's cells all have an exterior wall and on the interior of that cell wall is liquid usually it's like salt water the exterior wall of a human cell is made out of basically fat almost like a soap bubble. So when a plasma forms, it forms in a very similar way. It has this exterior shell that forms around it, a lot like a cell does in a human being and then they observed the physicists observed in the laboratory that within the center nucleus that was forming in the plasmas

21:48 What they saw was what looked just like human DNA, a double helix forming. Now the way to think of a double helix imagine a wooden ladder and then imagine that you can twist this wooden ladder down that's a double helix the ladder has rungs on it and it has sides to it well the rungs in human DNA are made out of amino acids And that is literally what makes us, us. But within the plasma they observed something very similar happening and then they watched this double helix split just like it does in human DNA and it reproduced itself and created a second plasma

22:34 and they saw those split and create more plasmas, just like human reproduction in cells occurs. They saw what they interpreted as evolution in that some of these newly formed plasmas were very weak and whatever that structure was on the interior of it... That structure would look weak in some and then they would literally disintegrate and fall apart, that is cease to be anymore So that is where they saw evolution coming into it. They could interact with the plasmas and they literally said in the article, if we could sustain these long enough they would probably interact with us and be almost like life as we know it today so that is mainstream physicists saying this

23:24 physicists back many, many years ago is probably a hundred years ago suspected that plasmas were in fact some sort of a life form. So they're found all over the earth plasma's the main building block of the entire universe there's more plasma than anything else out there it forms naturally on earth and we can create it and so the question is then how does plasma fit into this? And that's where I go back to the Native American stuff. So do you want me to go ahead and go there or should I, what do you want me to do just keep going?" Well, you were gonna tell us why Andrew Collins uses the term N-beans but definitely get into the shaman stuff because we know like that was a great breakdown of what's been seen in the lab with plasmas. But yeah tell us about n beans and then how they occur naturally to where shamans interacted with them

24:18 Okay, well Andrew's half of the book goes very deeply into physics and particularly the last four or five chapters. He talks a lot about things like the Ark of the Covenant he talks a lot about the light of God what people were interacting with And in essence, he believes that the Ark of the Covenant was a plasma generator. A way to interact with some much deeper force in the universe something that is far more profound. He calls in his case the manifesting time beings that I use...He's calling them end beings

24:58 And the word N means, the letter n means that there could be any number of them. We don't have a good term for them other than that but they simply form from this energy and they form for a purpose he goes into quantum mechanics rather deeply into non-causal physics There's some really deep stuff in this and I consider what Andrew wrote about the physics portion of this book to be some of the most brilliant writing i have ever seen anybody do. And, I've talked to other people now that have read this and said they agree they think it's just incredible! So what Andrew wrote is far more impressive than anything I wrote

25:42 And I'd leave it to him to really get into the quantum mechanics on it because I know my limits and that's pretty much pushing me right up to the limit, to where I don't know anything else beyond it. But he calls them N-Beings and he says that they interact with us the same way that I say it. And that is when you are in a sacred space doesn't matter even if it's just in your bed and something manifests Whatever these end beings are or time forces are, be them plasma manifestation. It has some purpose and its purpose interacts with us and when I say it interacts it is interacting with your unconscious one the your meaning the percipient the person that's interacting with it they have their own unconscious expectations their own belief system

26:40 And the manifestation that's occurring in front of them interacts with that, knows what it is and it adjusts and modifies its behavior to interact with the percipient. To make it more relevant to the percipient often it pushes them a little more than what they expect so that's kind of a thumbnail of it Native Americans had procedures to interact with them. That's how I got into that That's why I like talking about the Native American side, because they had really specific things you needed to do to interact with these forces. And they even told us why you needed to if you didn't voluntarily interact with them then they would come to you anyway. So if you voluntarily interacted with the forces, then you could control it somewhat and you would be blessed that was the idea

27:38 of having all the rituals timed throughout the year to get these things to manifest so the whole tribe could kind of get in sync and harmony with them. On the other hand, if you ignore them then they cause chaos. They come to us anyway and one of the things that I put in the book was about all of the electromagnetic frequencies and fields that are around us all the time now yes it have really caused well i call it a electromagnetic cesspool that we live in when i wrote the book i was living in a different house in downtown Memphis on an island

28:15 I was in the most dense part of the city and I checked my Wi-Fi connections while I was there, and I had 21 different Wi-Fi signals. What people think when they think of a cell phone and connection to whatever the closest tower is, they think there's like a straight line beam going out. There's not it's a bubble. Every phone creates a big gigantic bubble around it and we're walking through these all the time not just from the cell towers but from everybody's phone and what that does biochemically

28:55 and when I say biochemically, i'm really talking about brain chemistry here. It is causing like tremendous disruptions to our natural rhythm our natural electromagnetic ambient frequency which is known as the Schumann resonance So we're living in this cesspool now and things are getting weirder. That's part of the point of this, things are getting increasingly weird and it's very difficult to harmonize with these forces anymore although Native Americans still attempt it and still do it but you have to be in very specific places to do that

29:31 So, okay. So did I answer the end beings part of it? Absolutely! And you mentioned the mechanisms that shamans have developed to get these things to manifest...I'd love to hear a little bit more about those mechanisms. To understand it you really got to understand the creation of the universe from their point of view. And this is going to sound exactly like modern physics, and in fact I was kind of shocked when i pulled all this information out so There's two types of Native American beliefs that people are accustomed to knowing about. One of them is the most common, these are children stories about creation, stories about animals and most of these stories are about teaching morals and right and wrong and just entertainment so children's stories are the most common ones then there are the sacred stories and those were basically kept secret

30:28 Those tell what they really believe, things about life and death and where we came from. All of those things are part of the sacred story so I'm going to only talk about the sacred story here So the sacred story of creation begins with a singularity And i'm not making that word up myself That is actually in the ethnography books At the very beginning there was a singularity of spirit Spiritual energy, the great spirit. That's all it was one piece of spirit and then they say that for its own reasons this singularity of spiritual energy

31:12 divided itself into two parts like the yin and the yang symbol. People have seen the yin and yang symbol, it's like a circle... And then it has like 2 drops that fit perfectly and they rotate around like there are 2 opposites Well that happened with this singularity and of course its contradiction in terms you can't have a singularity divided into 2 parts so the moment the 2 parts occurred, the singularity split. That was the creation of the universe. Modern physics calls it The Big Bang. The Zuni tribe...The Zuni are probably the oldest remaining of the ancient Puebloan people and the Zuni called it a container of all that thought outward

32:04 That's their term for it. That's how they explained the Big Bang, the mound builders and the Cheyenne called it a singularity and it developed these two portions and then the two portions literally blew apart and what it did was create a three-part universe, an upper world, a lower world, and a middle world. The middle world is the physical universe The upper world represents one of the two powers that the singularity split under and the lower world is the other power of the singularity. So what are the two powers? The upper world is creation, literally creation, the process of creation

32:52 and it also represents order in the universe that there are orderly things and cycles that go on in the universe like the movement of the sun across the sky every day. It's orderly if you follow it long enough, you'll see the order same with the moon. The moon's movements are predictable they're very orderly so those are powers of the upper world but lower world Is this order it's all the bad things that can happen all the bad weather animals are involved in it like animal attacks. But its also the process of entropy and I like the term creation and entropy here, entropy is a term in physics that simply means that from the moment something is created

33:36 a process begins that degrades whatever's been created back to its most primordial form. So entropy is the instant, it's the process of something degrading and falling apart and everything eventually falls apart. Everything is in a degrading mode you can keep working on stuff to keep it in working order even with relationships relationships are subject to entropy too but eventually all of it ends. So you have these two great forces, creation which is putting things together constantly bringing new life into the world and entropy removing life from the world things are falling apart but when that happens its allowing things to then be used for creation its part of a great cycle

34:27 So, from this belief system you have to understand that everything is spiritual in its nature because it all came from this great spirit to begin with. The physical world or the physical universe which they usually refer to as the middle world is made out of let's go through some of the elements dirt for example. Dirt is the most primordial form of energy spiritual energy that there is So they would use dirt to create certain types of geometrically arranged earthworks that allowed the movement of people in them along some prescribed order and used in rituals. Stone, stone is a type of solidified spiritual energy. Water is moving and liquefied spiritual energy. Fire is the release of spiritual energy

35:25 You've got crystals, which are a type of purified spiritual energy which then can be used and manipulated in certain rituals. So everything in this belief system is spiritual so they would build mound sites pyramids and so on out of earth and rock water was always involved in this and crystals are almost always found adjacent to because all of these spiritual elements are part of what they were trying to do with this So the final piece to this is what the heck the world represents and why we're here, and what are these entities that were talking about? How's a paranormal fit. In their belief system they talk about why humans came to this earth And what the earth is...is a three-dimensional double sided mirror

36:20 Let me say that again. Earth is a three-dimensional double sided mirror, and it's a mirror double sided because it's reflecting the power of the upper world creation and its reflecting the power of the lower world entropy at the exact same time It's three-dimensional so that these two forces can play themselves out. It gives them a playing field for this cycle to continue, to just keep going you have constant creation and entropy order and disorder and it happens over and over So on this three dimensional surface humans were placed Humans were placed here according to this belief system for 2 reasons 1

37:11 We have the intellectual capability of understanding and appreciating the cycle that is going on all the time. These two great forces in this constant cycle around and around it goes, we can see that, we can perceive it, we can understand it. And secondly, in the Native American belief system, to harmonize with those two forces, to keep it in harmony. And so the tribes, the tribal shaman were tasked with maintaining the harmony with this spiritual entity, this spiritual force and us and... So that they would maintain this harmony, the purpose of it

38:01 is to allow the tribe to have good things happen over time. So they would heal people with it, they could ensure that there were good crops, they could ensure that there would be rain and that is what the shaman were supposed to do. They were supposed to harmonize with these spiritual forces so they erected different kinds of geometric earthworks circles and squares and so on They would erect mounds that would point to certain stars for certain times of the year in order to hold the rituals. Supposedly, in the literature and in the book I talk about a meeting with a fellow by name of Lew White Eagle who was one of the arrow priests of the Cheyenne nation. I talked about him and his experiences with us here where I am in Memphis

38:53 He said and told me, it's the first time I'd heard this. This was back in 1988 and 89 when I knew this guy. He said that they actually physically manifested these forces inside the sacred enclosures Now, he led me to certain literature and I read the same thing in this literature from the 1800s and even in the 1900s that some of the early ethnographers did in fact watch the manifestation of some of these entities. So there you go! That's a thumbnail of it all Native Americans believe that we are constantly interacting with these

39:35 spiritual forces, they call them spiritual. Based on everything Andrew and I have looked at they are talking about plasma forms They have their own word for them they called the Mayan They usually come when there first encountered They come as tricksters This also fits the thing and that is you really can't trust what they tell you And if you think about all of the contactee experiences Well the contactees were a group of people who claimed that, again, a flying saucer landed and out walked some alien. And the alien would say oh I'm from the planet Mars or I'm from Venus or we live on the moons of Saturn or we're from Jupiter wherever they almost always were somewhere in the solar system sometimes they were in a hidden planet in the solar system a planet called Clarion or whatever

40:29 But we know that they often lied to people. That is, they couldn't be trusted so even Native Americans said that when you are very first interacting with these beings these forces they almost always come as a trickster and the trickster you have to navigate You have to show that you are spiritually harmonized enough to get past the trickster aspects of it When they appear as a trickster, they're not going to kill you. They simply mislead you but again they read what's going on within you. They read your own unconscious contents and your belief system and then their manifestation takes all that into accordance and that's how they basically trick us. They trick us using our own proclivities whatever they may be

41:24 I know i've gone a long way around here and hit a lot of stuff but, I tried to summarize that Native American stuff pretty quickly. And it's just so detailed it's hard to do very fast yes Yes It is and I know I have way too many notes for this interview but the trickster thing Is super interesting? I had A quote here where you say The Trickster is a temporary entity that can create fear distrust and confusion In brief the Trickster seems To be one thing But is actually another It seems to relate truth leads to deceit and makes you think you are right when you're actually wrong. It is a creator of chaos and instigates entropy, the breakdown of order however as it fulfills that role it also facilitates creation and can lead to a deeper understanding of life's many mysteries if you can move beyond the deceptions of The Trickster you can come to see reality more clearly and gain power from the interaction

42:16 And this goes hand in hand with what a lot of paranormal researchers say, that when they start investigating this intentionally something looks back at them and sometimes follows them and latches onto them throughout their life. This seems to be how the trickster operates. Two other little things I wanted to throw in because what's really great about the book is For anyone who's looked at a lot of Fortean paranormal experiences, there are little commonalities and there are little things that it's like, huh? That's weird. I wonder why that is well this plasma argument takes a lot of these little things and it makes sense of them. And two that I think are interesting are this envelope thing and caves. And I just want to throw these two things out together

43:03 I love this paragraph about interactions with these plasmas because it's a visualization of the paranormal encounters that i've definitely seen a ton of times to quote the book again you write, when the plasma forms it creates an electromagnetic shell or bubble around itself. When one of these forms appears near a human, the electromagnetic bubble surrounds both the plasma and its participant. The electromagnetic field creates an energy wall forming a consciousness interaction field meaning that the beliefs in mental state of the human inside the bubble interact with the purpose of the plasma science completely breaks down at this point

43:42 which is a great last line, but seriously there are many like Christian depictions of angels and oftentimes there is a bubble around the person of glowing light. And it also kind of invokes the whole beam of light taking me up to the craft theme of a lot of UFO encounters they're hit with this beam and it envelopes them and so to me that was a good parallel, but also caves. So the Earth can create the right conditions for these plasmas to form and we didn't really talk much about that but maybe earthquakes are a factor I'll let you explain further But for them to appear solid they rip electrons and particles from nearby objects And sort of suck them up and i love this idea and we so often hear about sightings or beings coming out of caves

44:33 And that's eye-opening because there is so much dust and dirt and general material to suck up, that when some paranormal being comes out of a cave now we have a pretty good explanation it seems. So these are like the little details that I think are explained pretty well by this overall case That's very insightful about all those little things. That's quite an insight you have there and you're absolutely correct with it, we did try to explain all of the little nuances in the paranormal and UFO field one of the ideas that people may get is that there really is nothing behind plasma why would it have its own intelligence? And I tried to answer it already by saying that it's part of a whole to begin with

45:20 All things are connected that's the first half of the book that I wrote, that was the title for the entire first half. Which is a native American belief that all things are connected there is a web like a spiders web and I deliberately chose the spider's web in this. I did a book called people the web about the same time the internet came and everybody thought it was about the internet but it was about spiders as a trickster. And the idea that all things are connected so spiders web which could get huge if you vibrate any part of a spider's web at all vibrates

45:56 And that's the way the universe is. That's the way this operates, and that's also the way if you think about the singularity that started everything, everything was part of that initial piece so it became a huge web throughout the entire universe but it has intelligence, it has a purpose. The purpose of it even Native Americans would say the purpose goes beyond what we can understand they're simply supposed to harmonize with it so that good things would happen. That's basically what the whole harmony is for with it, but things like when the plasma forms yes It has to have something To pull in to become physical if you have a physical manifestation We already know this occurs The military calls them dusty plasmas The military has actually picked them up on radar and has seen them on radar

46:50 and they call them dusty because they're pulling in little physical particles of matter, and they pull them into this ball. They can become saucer shape because they begin to spin and it starts to flatten out lights come out of them. They sometimes look like they have portholes on the side so all those little aspects of UFOs are explained by this as far as the entities coming out of caves in the Cheyenne Massim ceremony, which is the main ceremony meant to manifest these beings. They opened up one side of a sacred circle toward a mountain. Bear Butte was usually it and the mountain had caves and the caves are the dwelling place of the Mayan

47:40 And the Mayan is the Cheyenne term for what the Muslims might call the djinn, or what the old British people might have called fairies. All of these are interconnected and they're all culturally determined beings entities the Mayan looked appropriate to Native Americans, just like the fairies were dressed sort of appropriate to be the Irish or the British or the Scottish that would interact with them. And the Muslim jinn dressed and appeared appropriate to them, to their culture so these things are they interact with us in ways that it's very difficult for us to understand but they do read our unconscious

48:27 they do know what's happening with us and they have their own purpose in these interactions. And the purpose can be to create chaos, but it's usually a test of some kind. I know a lot of people have gone off the deep end after interactions but i know a lot of people become very religious and spiritual after these experiences which brings me to a point here And the point is that skeptics say that people that believe in all this have what's called fantasy proneness. There are psychological tests you can give people that will determine if you're prone to having fantasies, such as UFOs—that's a good fantasy. Well, the thing that test doesn't measure is this

49:15 It assumes that if you believe in these things, that you're going to be prone to see them then. That's what the test assumes but my belief is this I don't think that fantasy proneness is causing UFO sightings. I think when people see UFOs and when people have really strange paranormal experiences they come to believe pretty quickly that there's something out there so that when they take the test to measure fantasy proneness. It says, do you believe there's something out there? And they put well of course I've seen it so it's like what is causing what here? I think fantasy proneness can be a consequence of realizing there really is something out there So skeptics don't let skeptics ruin this idea for you

50:05 What Andrew and I have done with this is to really create a very unpopular idea, and try to make it understandable. And try to throw all the little elements into it that it needs to have in order to explain everything such as ancient aliens, such as the possibility there may very well be some modern UFOs that truly are what they appear to be extraterrestrial probably not very many but we also wanted a way to explain the strange experiences that Shaman had. And we know they, this takes us into Andrew's side, we know that they have been doing this, that is interacting with these forces for a long long time because while I stuck with Native American stuff which might go back to you know 12-15 thousand years ago their belief system

50:56 Andrew starts out with Qesem Cave in Israel that we now know goes back over 400,000 years. It is a shaman's cave near Tel Aviv he got to go into the cave with the archaeologists that excavated it He got to go through all the artifacts and a lot of the artifacts that they found in the cave are related to shamanistic devices and shamanistic materials such as the wings of swans which we know were used in a whole bunch of rituals here in North America, as well as those in the Middle East where this stuff was found. So Andrew takes it back 400 000 years which is actually astonishing when you think about it

51:47 Yes, his part of the book is great. He talks about this Qesem Cave and Mount Garrison being near it? Yes And the whole story of The Ark of the Covenant these tablets it says very clearly were made from the stone of Mount Garrison and It's like this plasma said hey if you want to communicate with me If you want to be able to take This connection away from the mountain make these tablets put them in this box do this certain stuff And then you can carry this away and we can communicate. Yeah, and that seems to be the crux of what it was when people talk about oh well you get too close the Ark of the Covenant? You get ill well radiation poisoning I mean this is kind of a thing it all starts to make sense. I really like that section he talks about Skinwalker Ranch as well. I heard in interview recently where he was talking about this

52:43 presents it kind of as if he considers Skinwalker Ranch this big area, almost one giant blanket being over the area. But in the book there is a pretty incredible photo he took of a weird I would say feathered serpent in the sky at Skinwalker Ranch But I guess that kind of brings me to a question about portal places or places of heightened activity. What makes a place, a portal place? Obviously our modern industrialization and smart cities and the EMF environment dampens the ability for these plasma beings to manifest and do their thing but how did they occur naturally and what makes a portal area a portal area?

53:29 Well, obviously a portal is a place where activity occurs over and over. It just kind of spontaneously occurs so for example Sedona Arizona is considered a place where there are portals or vortices as the term they often use but these vortices are places where they claim that they're manifestations of paranormal activity that occur regularly The idea here, and I'll stick with the Native American belief they look at areas that have very specific types of rocks and rock formations. They like the movement of water nearby. That has to occur, we know through research with physics and earthquakes and so on that the movement of water through the cracks in certain types of structure underground structure generates huge amounts of electricity which then becomes plasma based. We know how plasmas can form

54:30 Natural geological processes and things like tectonic strain, which is not an earthquake. Earthquakes stop it earthquakes will stop the generation of plasmids because an earthquake is a way for the strain to be relieved It is the pressure that builds in tectonic strain. It's the pressure that produces the energy release, and this has been studied in two places Yakima Washington on the Yakima tribal reservation

55:09 which was not too far from Mount St. Helens, where in the 70s and 80s actually from the 50s till the 80s there were loads of UFO reports a lot of them were studied by physicists they concluded that these are plasma forms another place where it occurred was New Madrid Missouri that area and the Piedmont Missouri UFO flap roughly 1964 through the 80s and that appeared to cease after an earthquake hit the area. It was in 1987, I believe because i was actually here when the earthquake hit and felt it but that kind of cut the activity so earthquake activity actually reduces the number of UFO's after the earthquake because your tectonic strain is reduced So Native Americans knew that places where water was moving through stone

56:03 places where they could expose the real dirt, the subsurface. They didn't like to do their ceremonies on sod so they would remove the sod and expose bare earth. They didn't like doing it on rock either they liked to have it on bare earth and then they would remove whatever they were wearing on their feet grounded into the bare earth. That's also the way Kivas were done in the Southwest, the Kivas of the Southwest tribes same thing bare earth at the bottom not stone so I believe that the Shaman are different and that they had certain senses where they could feel

56:52 or sense the presence of geomagnetic anomalies. They knew they were in an area where this stuff could emerge, where they could make contact with it and commune with it. And I believe... Put this in the book, I think it probably has to do with the amount of magnetite that's in their brain particularly in the hippocampus of the brain. I thought that as long ago as 1992 and wrote it up back then and magnetite is in the human brain. It aligns to basically whatever electromagnetic field we're in at the time, so you have these little crystals of magnetite in your brain that are aligning to electromagnetic fields that you happen to be moving through. Some people naturally have more magnetite in their brain than others and I think that's the genetic difference. I think shaman were probably born with more

57:50 particular mineral in certain areas of the brain, so they're sensitive to it. And they may simply be more spiritual because of it and years ago I speculated hell the whole idea that chosen ones, chosen people well they maybe chosen because they can sense things because in certain areas of their brain They have a structure that can communicate with things that most of us cannot communicate with. And I think the mechanism involved with that is probably the mineral magnetite, anyway may or may not be true. That's real speculation. Not a lot of research has been done with it we just know it's there. Magnetite is what homing pigeons use

58:33 to find their way home from pretty much anywhere you release them, they'll find their way back. But there's magnetite in pigeon brains that's what they use to navigate themselves so okay I don't know if i answered what you asked or not man I got all over the place now. I like it! Wow well this was amazing I have been waiting for a couple of years for someone to really flesh out this paranormal connection with plasma and you guys did an incredible job in this book also with the shamanic overlap it all ties together so well i'm very thankful that you were willing to break it all down. For this audience let people know where they can get more dr gregory l little in their lives before we close it out

59:19 Well, just Google what he just said. Gregory L Little put my initial in there otherwise you'll get football players but if you put Gregory L little and Google You'll find me the first couple pages you can find just about whatever everything The books are available everywhere, not just Amazon but Barnes and Noble Books A Million. You name it available everywhere all the formats are available if you got 10 hours in a car by the audio I actually bought the audio myself and i was astonished at the guy that did the audio recording Micah Hanks oh very professional he pronounced things that I wouldn't even know how to pronounce wouldn't even begin to and Andrew's part was especially

1:00:02 interesting because Andrew has all those words from other countries in it and Micah just did a great job at pronouncing them. So yeah, just Google me I'm there read the book if you will critique it give us uh review if you will more reviews the better yes but it's always a pleasure man and I appreciate you having me on three times I feel very honored about that I appreciate it. And this has just been really great, thanks so much! I'd love to get a chance to talk to Andrew about his half of the book maybe you can put in a good word for me? I know he prefers the one hour interviews but i'm stuck with this... So I gotcha um but I can at least throw it out there and either way great to talk to you again and take care out there all right you take care too give your wife and child my hello yes people my man The Greg Superior

1:01:00 He's the best. He has quickly become one of my favorite people to have on, and he is right about repeat guests outside a handful of people the vast majority are one-and-dones not that they aren't great but so many guests focus on just one area or have only written one book that they might consider their masterwork an it's usually very good but we talk about it for two hours in that's that Dr. Little though has covered multiple topics that pair nicely with what we do around here and he operates at a high level on all of them I had mentioned to him right before recording that we had a pipe burst in the wall between my office and our kitchen And that's been a big nightmare, and I've been trying to do my work The way I used to do it for years jammed up in a corner in my bedroom

1:01:49 But it's all good, I really wasn't gonna bore you guys with my life stuff but that is what he was referring to at the beginning of the interview for those who were curious and the show must go on right? Really happy with this one though. I have brought up this plasma aspect as often as i could ever since the Eric Dollard interview where he generated a little humanoid shaped figure of light doing plasma experiments in the lab If you remember, I asked Richard Dolan about the plasma paranormal overlap and it resulted in our interview with the semi-anonymous guest Kosh who talked quite a bit about it

1:02:25 Obviously I am but a simple stoner podcast host and i don't know why, but this has resonated as true to me for quite some time. And having Dr Little apply his talents to the topic is really great! Of course he too has been thinking along these lines way longer than I have because his early books on the paranormal touch on that so kudos to him for sure But this plasma thing does help me to make sense of the natural hotspots overlap and the sort of indigenous shamanism kind of stuff. That there are these ritual places where these things can be called over and over, and sustained longer contact can be established And you know it's not a total solve for the paranormal There are still plenty of mysteries as to what motivates these intelligent plasmas and what they can do and why they show up

1:03:17 We're kind of just saying, hey paranormal entities might be made of plasma. And it's like oh cool well that's something It's interesting to me and I don't really understand why it bothers a lot of paranormal researchers but I have seen the evidence that it does But getting back to the natural hotspots and indigenous shamanism there is one paragraph from the book that I didn't read in the interview but I liked a lot where Dr Little writes The elite of ancient cultures used natural landforms to connect with the time forces, but it became known to shamans that landforms could be shaped to allow the masses to commune with these spiritual forces. Many of the most incredible sites such as the Circle and Octagon Earthworks in Newark Ohio were made in a way to evoke contain and control spiritual manifestations

1:04:10 Earth, as the most primordial spiritual substance was carefully piled in specific formations as a barrier. Circular enclosures without an opening were made to confine the manifesting spiritual entities Lines of parallel earthen walls were used to move both the spiritual forces and participants from one sacred location to another Rituals that vibrated the electromagnetic web were used to connect with time force This knowledge was, and still is known by the shamans and medicine people who are entrusted to maintain the connection. Medicine people and shamans understood that there were specific angles of earth and rocks that enhanced the effects of rituals and attuned the participants in such rituals to time forces

1:04:56 I like that i mean he makes it seems so matter of fact doesn't he and explains a lot kind of aligns with the geometric aspects of occult is on the pentagon usage only the native americans really did it at a much more epic scale. So to me this felt like a pretty fresh take on things and fingers crossed I can send an interview request to Andrew Collins, and have him actually take me up on it. But we shall see it is a marathon session around here It's definitely turned off more than a few potential guests But in higher side news, a lot of people have been very cool and supportive since the Kathy O'Brien wrap-up. I guess i was a bit down that day and people reacted but you know it's hard not to be a little down after reading about nothing but that stuff for a couple of days in a row? But I just wanted to say I appreciate it and it's all good!

1:05:50 Plus members have even been as gracious as to suggest things like me taking a month off every year or even going down to four shows a month, which is really over the top kind of them. I think no matter what a person does for work it can become routine and they can go through periods of being burnt out a little bit but hey with my job i can just pivot over to something like this and then i feel totally refreshed And as good as the first hour was, in the second we added some great logs to the plasma fire. I asked if there's anything that we could do to increase our cerebral magnetite? I think that is where the free plus hour split is going to be and short answer is no! Spoiler alert But we also talked about imagination thoughts archetypes of plasma beings The importance of belief in these situations

1:06:44 I asked how do plasma being encounters overlap with good fortune and manifestation, are the messages from the observer's mind as well as just the physical representation of these things. We talked about the wild experiences of Immanuel Swedenborg As well as the experience of Lou White Eagle The Grand Potentializer and The Little People we talked about military research and weaponized plasma which Dr. Little knew quite a bit about And we also got into his experiment proving plant intelligence and of course spoon bending and pyramid power. What show would be complete without it? But you know, I really don't need to take a month off or cut down to four shows a month all i really need is for more free listeners to convert to plus and enjoy the longer episodes and for people to spread the word that we have a pretty good show here that stands out from the crowd

1:07:41 I guess reviews help too, but not really. I care more about spreading the word because when people hear THC they usually like it and who knows if we'll even be on iTunes in a couple of years anyway so don't waste your time with the review if there's just somebody you can tell about the show although I'm sure if you had people you could tell about this show you probably would have already It's polarizing...I understand But maybe if you have friends who are paranormally inclined, this is one episode that might be worth spreading around a little bit. It helps me it would help Dr Little and it's just a fresh idea in a somewhat stagnant field If you ask me so... You can look like Mr Cool Guy bringing it to the table

1:08:25 And if we go to the calendar at highersidemeetups.com, we do have some events to plug which I really appreciate! I feel kind of dumb when we have this pretty large audience and i can't even plug one fan meetup? Don't put me in that position guys... But in the next couple of days we have two June 8th That's actually today okay this event is happening right now the Milwaukee Metaphysical Society, not the Milwaukee you're thinking of. This is Milwaukee Oregon and I don't know how much awareness there is about this one see this is why it's important to make these events at least a week or two out so people can hear the announcement on air a couple of times but I'm gonna go and tweet about this and hopefully some people show up for ya but then tomorrow we have the East Austin

1:09:16 Easy Tiger Hireside Meetup. They say, hey I'm a new THC Plus member and I know we have the Hireside Soup meet up on the 25th but i'm scheduling this in response to Greg's tweet asking us to get more stuff on the calendar! Well thank you! They say, I don't expect anyone to show up but I'm giving it a shot well come on people... Don't leave my man hanging here But he says he's going to be camping out at a picnic table in the courtyard. Just ask the person at the entryway for The Hireside Chats meetup and they should bring you right to them! In case anybody does come, Easy Tiger offers a little bit of everything. Beer, coffee, bratwursts, sandwiches etc! I figure we could discuss recent shows and whatever you've been reading or looking into in the worlds of esoterica conspiracy the paranormal etc plenty to discuss well cheers to that there's always plenty to discuss go on out there if you're in the Austin area

1:10:13 Make a new friend, my man put himself out there. I'm happy to plug it and maybe some of the people that i'll be meeting on the 25th in Austin will get a little preview meet-and-greet before that happens takes a little bit of balls to put yourself out there and make them meet up and go to a place and see if anyone shows up so help him out And if you're not in Milwaukee, Oregon or Austin Texas then go ahead and hit up that calendar. Make a free meetup at your local watering hole and the people will come! It's good fun and with that I'm getting out of here. I love you guys big thanks to Dr Little check out Origins Of The Gods You Will Not Be Disappointed and i'll see ya next time. I've done my part Your move otherworldly intelligences Time beings and plasma summoning shamans

1:11:05 Your fucking move. From space it was falling, its light started calling It's making crop circles again Just as I was looking up it showed me all the hidden stuff And now I'm all enlightened and zen The masses is hard Silver ship circ- Now I'm not asleep Don't obey the elite Gotta be into the head Now I start to wonder, now we're not the sheep that they bred us to be. Got a beam to the head! Now we start to wonder... See a new paradigm of corruption and crime since the visitors set me straight. I encouraged you to go when you see the saucers glow up my way

1:12:18 The masses is hard Silver ships are fired Now we're not asleep Don't obey the elite Got a beam to the head We start to wonder No, we're not the sheep That has to be Beamed to the head We start to wonder You'll see these things up in the sky Just as the system starts to die Cabal's hatin' it and makes Drone Valley rave It's time we had our faith Because we're not the sheep that they must to be Beamed to life, now we start to wonder Now we're not asleep because we got THC

1:13:40 Now we start to wonder, now we start to wonder. And that is another show complete! Remember, as much as you enjoyed this which is just the free first hour I hope you'll become a Plus Member to hear the full two-hour interviews. You also can engage with other Plus Members in the comments and the forums and you'll find your answer to one of the most common questions I get which is where can I find those cover songs that you use at the end of the show? Well they are free downloads for Plus Members too

1:14:53 And without Plus Members, I can't hire the occasional musician to bring these odd cover song ideas to fruition. Plus members are how I'm able to do what I do without ads and without the big machine being on my back! We can fit so much more into a two hour interview and I do my best to make it worth your time and money." The conversation only gets deeper, weirder, and more controversial in that private hour. How could it not be the way things are going? But the best way to sign up is at TheHigherSideChats.com, where new first-time subscribers always get a free 7 day trial because I'm just that confident! There's no PayPal on the website but if you need to use PayPal then sign up through Patreon and you get all of the same episodes

1:15:36 Our website is a credit or debit system, but you can also scope out the other options like a few various cryptos. Cash or check mailed to the P.O box and I'll even barter with most people if you have your own business and produce something nice that my wife or kid or taste buds might like But the architects of consensus reality have made it clear that these themes and topics aren't really welcome on the main stage. And so this is how we secure a little counterculture corner for ourselves, and I hope you'll join PLUS because that's the only way it works! Besides, you can cancel any time right on your profile page. The most common concern I hear is people just being unsure if THC Plus will work with their podcast app and the answer is probably yes! But if not we have several high-level app recommendations for whatever phone you use and the website is made for mobile too

1:16:28 We're trained to tip a waitress for bringing us a sandwich, but that tip doesn't give you access to a second sandwich. Really I'm not asking for any more than that and think I offer better service. Come get your second serving of tasty conspiracy goodness in exchange for that small token of your appreciation. Beyond that let it also be known we have grown and survived as long as we have by word-of-mouth I don't care so much about social media likes or follows, but tell the right people about THC. And not just listeners but the high-level figures who are better suited to sit down with me than most other hosts And if you can help me with any of these things I can work to bring you better shows which is just a win-win for both us. Informative, entertaining and action packed! It also never hurts to thank a guest you liked if you have the time either we want them to know people are listening so they're willing to come back down the road too Thank YOU for spending some time with me and cheers to a better tomorrow