David Talbott | The Electric Universe, The Saturn/Sun Swap, & The Reconstructing Of Mythology

00:05 Puppet masters almost surely have up this clearly, maybe something ebby And until you've thoroughly tested every last close-tested think you know the less you really do That's true Dr. Seuss Without THC Cause we know they're lying to us just don't know without THC The higher side chat show our one company

00:43 How's it going, Hireside Chatters? Drinking a little drink. Smoking a little smoke and working to wash away the residue of consensus reality so I can properly think on the wavelength required for me to do what I do! From sunny San Diego, I'm Greg Carlwood and this right here is a helluva show Many of you might be familiar with the Electric Universe concept many of you probably aren't but this is an interesting paradigm change from the way we typically think of space and the universe Because mainstream science really only tells us that one force rules the cosmos, and that's gravity. And we have the lens that is the theory of relativity which we must look through? And were told our sun operates as what they might be giants so accurately described as a gigantic nuclear furnace!

01:25 But the more we learn about and observe things beyond our little rock, the more we find long-held scientific dogma needs an update. And big pieces of the puzzle are missing while The Electric Universe model and this idea that electricity rather than gravity could be the primary operator... ...the main mojo behind the formation of worlds in The Fuel Of Stars Well they have huge implications and they tie into a lot of other areas We talk about in the alternative world but on a more fundamental scale Exciting stuff, but I wanted to give some of you a bit of a basis for this show because it is A different view of the world that takes little context understand But David does it better than I so let's just dive into it. The Electric Universe The Saturn Sun Swap the mythological reconstruction the polar configuration and more enjoy Drink a little drink my friend Smirk a little smirk It looks like Mr. Carlwood Is studying our fish

02:24 Alright people, it's no secret we enjoy pointing out the holes in the things we take for granted and find it useful to always remain skeptical of the official story, consensus perspective or in todays case, the settled science. And of all the topics we explore, what could be more impactful than reworking our understanding of the galactic environment space and the universe itself? Well this is the realm in which today's guest is here to challenge the status quo but also to outline what's called The Electric Universe Model. A paradigm that makes sense of many of the holes left by the traditional explanations

03:06 clarifies art and writing from the ancient past, and quite possibly could give some underlying context for certain occult symbolism and conspiratorial themes we know all too well. It's a big can of worms but David Talbot is just the man to pop the top! David is the founder and director of the popular Thunderbolts project, which is the main group promoting the Electric Universe model currently. He's also written and co-written several books including The Saturn Myth, The Electric Universe, and Thunderbolts of the Gods as well as produced the popular Symbols Of An Alien Sky documentary series A guest on topic I've been looking forward to for a while now, a brilliant mind in troubled times David Maman welcome to THC

03:46 Okay, very good Greg. Set me up I don't trust you! That's my job! Okay well no...I appreciate that so i'm ready yeah man thanks for being here uh i do find this electric universe model fascinating it has popped up here and there over the years but i'm looking forward to diving into the details with someone who really knows this stuff well of course it's been getting more popular every year but just so we leave no man behind introduce us to the Electric Universe Model and how it's different than our common understanding of things. Well, the first thing I would say about the Electric Universe community as a whole since the Electric Universe model is really being clarified through contributions from a wide range of interdisciplinary investigations. Because it is so broad in its sweeping implications, it requires us to think in interdisciplinary terms about origins

04:48 the interconnections of physical origins to things that have come down to us from a more antique world, the archaic world of myths and symbols. They all get entwined in a picture of space, the remote events we observe in the universe on one hand and things occurring closer to home, perhaps only a few thousand years ago and affecting humanity around the world. The practical pathway that led first and foremost to a sense of an Electric Universe community just happened to be my own convergence with the Australian physicist Wal Thornhill. My background was

05:36 particularly in the study of ancient myths and symbols. My book, The Saturn Myth was published by Doubleday many years ago 1980 That book slowly acquired a following. This is actually over decades, it acquired a following and one individual who became vitally interested in the Saturn myth was the Australian physicist Wal Thornhill That was the beginning then of a progressive alignment of our interests. And eventually we became close colleagues and we shared the stage at many conferences and so on, as we have for perhaps 20 years or more. And Wal Thornhill spent his entire adult life

06:28 investigating the physics of electricity at all scales of observation. He's a very well-rounded expert on the Electric Universe. The surprise for me was that when he saw what I had reconstructed on the basis of ancient testimony alone, he said to me Dave you have described perfectly electric discharge formations in a plasma environment. I can tell you, I didn't even know due to the narrowness of my historical investigation...I didn't really know what a plasma is sufficiently to define it or describe it scientifically at that time but that was the beginning up this progressive

07:22 collaboration between Wall and me that has just continued to grow and has attracted a lot of people internationally. The Electric Universe movement today is very international, and when we put on a conference, we attract people from around the world, and our speakers come from several different countries typically and it's making for a sense, progressively emerging today of an undeniable movement. The Electric Universe is a movement today is proving very persuasive to people who will take the time to look. And all I ask that people if they begin searching on this is do the best they can to distinguish between the people who have really looked

08:17 and those who have just simply reacted from a prior ideological vantage point, because it's a huge divide today. They're very happy though with the responses we get whenever someone comes openly from a very skilled scientific background and looks at the evidence that we've assembled under this heading of The Electric Universe Yeah, I find this fascinating and love that it is gaining steam and becoming a real movement. But what is being proposed here? It's primarily to sum up in a nutshell that electricity is more of the driving force of the universe than gravity right?

08:59 Well, that statement is susceptible possibly to confusion but there's a fundamental truth in that. One reason for the claim within our group that electricity is prior or more fundamental is that even gravity can be reduced down to a nuance at the quantum level, at the sub-atomic level. Structure of charged particles have to do directly with the origins of gravitational fields so gravity is not a fundamental force

09:35 and the views of the Electric Universe theorist, it is an elementary force that depends on the subatomic role of the electric force in distortions of charged particles producing an aggregate effect we call gravity. Now this is to say Just far enough from my own expertise, if I say about another paragraph on this, I'll probably begin misstating things just so there's no misunderstanding here. The gravity question runs very deep in conversations that have gone on for years

10:12 and I would not be the one to speak for the electrical interpretation of gravity. Wal Thornhill is splendid, he's my partner, an Australian physicist. He is splendid in describing the contribution of the electric force to the effects that we call gravity. Okay, so well let's say this I borrowed the term settled science in the intro from one of your presentations entitled exposing the myths of settled science and i really like that title and it's really one of my favorite things to do And in this area what does this Electric Universe paradigm correct? What are the holes in what we are taught in school that tell us

10:57 Some things need reworking and this model might do that. Okay, well I'll skip over a number of things inadvertently but if you go to the most fundamental question that would be asked at the macrocosm—the biggest picture we have of the universe— The fundamental challenge that we are registering comes from evidence that electric currents are moving across the macrocosm. In other words, interplanetary, interstellar and intergalactic electric currents that's motions of charged particles in space are producing

11:42 electric fields and producing structures in space ranging from galaxies down to star formation, down to planet formation, down to comets and asteroids moving through the plasma environment of the Sun. Where comets are moving through because of their elliptical orbits an electric field of the Sun, which is the reason why comets will tend to discharge at a critical juncture and asteroids tend not to produce comet-like displays. So there's a picture here of the fundamental role of the electric force what is

12:25 creating an exotic structure of a galaxy with its stupendously energetic jets, for example. Well we are saying that that galaxy is not being structured simply by forces internal to that organized mass it is being affected by the vast volume of electric charge in which it is embedded So a star within a galaxy is just a little dust mold, as we say. Because if you place a particle of dust at one end of the block and another particle of dust at the other end of the block how much

13:15 dynamic activity between those two particles of dust is going to produce the effect we see on a galactic scale. In other words, scaling up from those two particles of dust, the stars in a galaxy Those stars do not have the inherent power to produce galactic structure without the contribution of that larger electric field. The galaxy is itself just the tiniest speck when set against the electromagnetic emissions that we now observe in radio galaxies, for example.

13:58 So we cannot ignore the contribution of this vast sea of plasma around galaxies to the formation of galaxies. In the same way, the origins of stars along these luminous filaments that we now observe telescopically within the Milky Way those stars are being formed by the natural well-documented pinch effect of plasma streams and the result is an explosion into life of a star in a star-forming region in a galaxy. So all of this involves looking to the larger domain, that helps explain what you see at smaller scales. There are no islands in space. No star was ever born of its own accord

14:52 It was always, always an effect of a vastly larger electrical contribution. It's almost unfathomable this volume of space three-dimensionally here... that volume I mean just across interplanetary distances out to the heliosphere it's just a stupendous figure And that entire volume is capable of contributing square foot by square foot this most minuscule addition to the electric field of the Sun. But in aggregate,

15:29 There's power there to light the Sun. So we challenge, we challenge the idea that the Sun is just a thermonuclear furnace. Right! There would not be a sun, we say were it not for the plasma environment that is helping or maybe even exclusively responsible for the lighting of the Sun Hmm. Yeah, and I like when you say that there are no islands in space. I've heard you say that it's better to think of stars or systems as beads on a string and I think that's a good visualization to show maybe things are more interconnected than we're led to believe out there

16:09 Well put. That's a very nice observation with respect to what we now see telescopically as we look into the heart of the Milky Way galaxy, our home galaxy. We see these very dynamic filaments the filaments themselves are wider than our heliosphere. In other words, wider than the distance from one end of our sun's domain to the opposite end of the sun's domain way out past the planet so that's room or

16:46 volume to hold this massive electrical potential. That's what we are seeing acting to create the mysterious, the highly enigmatic behavior of our own Sun. We can just look at the Sun in all of its mysterious attributes and begin naming the attributes that point to an external influence. It's not being driven by a thermonuclear furnace, it's being driven by this subtle energy that the volume of the heliosphere is more than sufficient to light the Sun

17:29 and we simply look then for evidence to what we call the interfacial boundaries. The Sun is a discrete body in space, it's responding to an external electrical environment so the theoretical question becomes Is there interfacial dynamic activity suggestive of that transaction electrically between the body of the Sun and its larger environment? And when you go to the boundary conditions, you see evidence of spectacular electrical transactional activity.

18:09 As you go upward from the surface of the Sun, you go to higher temperatures and more dynamic charged particle interactions. Well that's exactly what an external electrical environment would predict there! If you look beneath the visible surface of the Sun to the layer just beneath the visible surface that is exposed at sunspots you see that the sunspot is anchored in a slower moving region and you see above the surface of the Sun, the plasma environment is rotating faster than the surface. In other words move out from the Sun you are moving into

18:54 rotational velocities that are the opposite of what you would expect if the Sun were being driven from its core. Does that make sense? You stir a pond from the center, it will never move around faster at its periphery but that's what we see with the Sun. It's being acted upon by its plasma environment and so every test that we can name of the electric sun hypothesis is actually being measured now by the closer attention that is given to the Sun today,

19:33 solar physicists. Yeah, it's very interesting and can get kind of complex but it's kind of contradictory to what we're told in school which is that space is an empty void and that a largely dead universe with little pockets of life on these bare sparse planets but it seems like if we're talking about an electrical field like a charged blanket in space maybe should be thought as not so dead not so void and empty Yeah, well that's exactly what we have concluded about the environment of the Sun. To attempt to understand the Sun as an island in space is to actually miss the opportunity to one by one address the anomalous attributes of the sun I mean we've tried to make this point so many times but it still stands that all other defining attributes at the sun apart from being big

20:28 and bright. Well, back up apart from it being big because the brightness is the question at stake here all of those attributes are anomalous There are so few things that you can say about the Sun that don't arise as anomalies within solar physics. But I can tell you, even as it may sound overconfident to people, I have not observed in the history of the Electric Universe movement any findings about the Sun that would come as a surprise to an electrical theorist. So yes, of course charged particles are accelerated away from the Sun and not just some short distance but they're still accelerating when they get past the Earth so something's acting on these little charge particles right we say they're not little rocket ships folks mm-hmm and what that means is That to understand the sun

21:32 you could never afford to just ignore the explicit indications of this electric field. You can take the power of acceleration from the Sun and on outward, and mathematically I'm quite confident though I wouldn't be the one to do it, mathematically calculate the scale of that electric field the strength of that electric field at all the different distances from the Sun. Charged particles from the Sun racing outward hundreds and thousands miles per hour, and then continuing to accelerate

22:11 This is what an electric field does. But how much attention have the peer-reviewed journals on solar physics given to the contribution of the external environment in the Sun, to the behavior we observe at the surface of the Sun? Yeah, they're still pushing this idea of a thermonuclear reactor. Have they just missed something or is there intentional deception? Is there a reason they want us to think one way and not in this new way Or is it just an unfortunate situation Well, it is unfortunate because It costs us billions of dollars In science asking the wrong questions

22:53 Because if they're not really concerned about the forces acting on the surface of the sun from outside the sun, that will mean that the cost to countries around the world would have to be counted in billions of dollars. And that cost just goes on and on. So how do we explain this? I do not I believe that we can attribute this to deliberate deception except in one sense. And, I would call it the momentum of prior beliefs. There is a kind of deliberate attachment to our prior beliefs and that's for the cost

23:44 to science originates when we ignore the electrical contribution to the activity of the sun and two other bodies in space. Breaking that momentum a prior belief is it tremendous challenge Because what it will appear to a proponent of the standard doctrine, it will appear as if we're asking him to believe things that have been completely excluded by real science. They do actually exhibit this confidence but this is the nature of scientific revolutions. It appears to those

24:27 defending the orthodoxy, it appears as if the people who are challenging them are half crazy. They just didn't learn what they learned in school and so we'll get tutored all the time on stuff that they learned in school as if we'd never heard of such a thing. On that subject, apparently there have been a lot of brilliant minds throughout history who have recognized this electrical component in some way. They've just kind of been marginalized right? Well, I think that's probably the defining characteristic of scientific revolutions is that they don't come easily. It's just too easy to dismiss a novel idea but what is happening today is that a large number of well-qualified people are seen

25:23 the persuasive argument coming out of the Electric Universe community. I mean, we've had almost 10 million views of our YouTube channels. Okay that's YouTube and not quite a set of peer-reviewed journals but for those who will look they'll come to understand why The Electric Universe has not received due attention from peer-reviewed science. This takes time, what is occurring now is that independent scientists are beginning to ask questions we're getting quite a crowd of scientists coming into our group now and some of the better ones will be speaking at our conferences this year

26:12 And the upshot of this is that the revolution is actually already underway. I would go so far to say, Greg... This is perhaps... Perhaps it would be seen as pretentiousness on our part but I believe based on what science has already come to acknowledge out of the surprises of the space age and so on we've already moved into and maybe substantially through the tipping point. And incidentally, the tipping point was a theme of the title of our conference just two years ago because people were beginning to comment on this. Well it looks like we're reaching the tipping point now because people can hold in their minds

27:05 as they move forward from an original skepticism they might have taken toward the EU, they hold in their minds what you should expect to find if there's substance to the EU. And so they begin to notice it's like comets drifting in toward the sun beginning to discharge electrically? Well, that's the prediction of course of the electric comet model. If the Sun has an electric field a body moving from the outer reaches of the suns influence into the Sun, a body of sufficient size that it can hold its charge and from remote region, it's going to be under increasing electrical stresses as it approaches the Sun. But what does a body do when its under electrical stress? There is a critical juncture at which it begins to discharge electrically because they can't be relieved of that stress by any other means. That we've been saying is what a comet is doing as it is falling toward the Sun. Well that sets up all kinds of predictions if people will follow them

28:08 And this is where comet science is headed now. Every year that goes by we are seeing more clearly defined electrical attributes of comets, suggesting that these bodies are indeed charged objects in space and the stresses on these bodies are causing that the cometary displays. I'm talking about the electrical stresses that comes from a charge body being placed in a plasma or other environment of a different charge. This is fundamental nature of cometary activity, we believe

28:46 Mm-hmm. I actually like that section of the research because, uh...I was listening to you in a previous interview talk about of course comets are traditionally thought of as icy snowballs and apparently with the recent comets that we've seen there have been some discrepancies because i guess if I understood you correctly the pattern it makes in the sky looks very large and so they have to attribute a larger size to the object out in space but there seems to be some inconsistencies because they're trying to account for I guess, the brightness of it or the way it looks from the surface of the Earth because they're not taking into account this electrical component. Is that kind of accurate? That is a possible effect on the rational thinking of comet scientists where they're trying to deduce the size of the body from

29:32 the amount of, let's say gases that they're presuming must be sublimating from a surface of a particular size since out at the more remote regions where these bodies begin to exhibit these cometary displays If it were just an effect of solar heating, it would take a larger surface. Well, it would take a larger surface that actually shows up when we see a comet more up close and personal. What is occurring here is an inherent contradiction in the assumption that cometary displays are produced by heating from the sun. I mean, we've had comets begin discharging out past the orbit of Jupiter

30:22 Well, if that's the basis of a cometary display why aren't the icy bodies in Jupiter's domain exhibiting that same kind of sublimation process? Good point. It's not sublimation at all! It's not evaporation of gases under the heating of the Sun it's a body that is just large enough to hold on to its prior charge as it is moving into a region of different charge. This is so reasonable, such a reasonable hypothesis... Well now Greg I can tell you that There are scientists who are very well qualified in their fields looking at comets now. And one I really want to highlight is Dr Franklin Anariba, he's very well informed on the electrochemistry

31:12 of water formation in comets. When we see water in a cometary atmosphere, the coma of a comet, we just assume that there has to be water on the surface where else would it come from? Well Dr Anariba has shown with great precision that electrical activity, activity on a surface of silicates can produce water And he reviews the evidence that this is exactly what is happening in some or most or all of the comets.

31:51 that we subjected to closer investigation, let's say. And incidentally his article is getting excellent responses from people communicating with us privately. We've just put it up and if people will go to the Thunderbolts Project website thunderbolts.info Go to the Thunder blog pages The very last article listed in our Thunderblogs pages is by Dr. Anariba, it is an incredibly compelling picture of the electric comet." Yeah that's a fascinating sector of this research for sure and let me ask you because laymen might be listening here and they might not see these distinctions as a big deal okay so comets have electrical charge and the universe is electric rather than empty void

32:47 So what you know, what are the implications of that for someone who might not fully grasp it yet? Yeah perfectly reasonable question there Greg and we have to deal with this all the time. We understand that it may not be crystal clear that there are huge implications were actually touched by the Implications all the time including when we pay our taxes in other words. We just assume that When taxes go to education that education is serving a useful purpose. Ah, yeah good point! Well actually if education is perpetuating misinformation and costing us eventually billions of dollars to correct misdirections in the sciences well this should be of interest to everyone but that's really still a little bit too theoretical I think for most people. I can tell you this that if people will look closely at the Electric Universe

33:43 It is so interdisciplinary. If they are still intellectually alive, they will find points of great interest here. A comet is an electrical phenomena that's one point of interest. Another point of interest is that the ancient sky of observers on Earth was a spectacular display of electrical activity and that you could not begin to understand the origins of the ancient cultures, their mythic themes, their symbols and so on apart from this activity. Now this is so unknown and yet it attracts people so strongly our most popular video it's around well succeeded a million views actually is Symbols Of An Alien Sky its subject is

34:35 the things that our early ancestors witnessed in the sky and a time of stupendous planetary instability. And if you ever wonder where doomsday anxiety has come from culturally or where the great myths and symbols came from, what was it that was acting on human imagination in that earlier time? You will have an interest in this material. We work with facts and the implications of facts, and people who will look and do want to know are finding this immensely persuasive."

35:15 Yeah, I agree with you. I think there's a lot to this idea when you put it in that mythological context which i know is your forte and anyone interested should watch Symbols of an Alien Sky A lot of it IS visual And you do a great job making that case But if we're to assume the ancients were seeing these massive displays Of electric plasma discharge In the atmosphere Why don't we see that anymore? Well, the entire planetary arrangement has changed. And I should emphasize here because it can be a sensitive point with people we take ancient testimony seriously but we apply ground rules for drawing reliable conclusions from human testimony The very fact that we do work with ancient myths and symbols that is a disqualifying consideration for people who have not

36:12 actually approached this subject through our own work. And you can understand why we get this response, well you were just talking about myths No, we're talking about the origins of myths worldwide where there must be. It is a rational certainty that you can't get all of these recurrent themes around the world for different symbols and different words actually describe the same experiences, the same forms in the sky. You literally cannot get that accord without

36:50 a celestial referent, a celestial event capable of provoking this amazing agreement of the different cultures. And we can identify hundreds of points of agreement. This is what the mythic archetypes are all about, a coherent substructure of human memory reconstructed by the points of agreement between the different cultures. Different words and different symbols and different mythic interpretations actually pointing to exactly the same global experience

37:26 Yeah, it's a huge can of worms for sure and you're right about myths. I mean myths we just call them that because they're things that were dismissed because they weren't understood and they are just assumed to have been made up but you do a great job making the case that a lot of petroglyphs and ancient symbols found around the world amongst cultures that aren't supposed to be in contact at all they have the same symbols You know, why? Apparently they were drawing the electrical plasma discharge patterns that we're seeing in the sky during this time of radical change that are also consistent with what modern science knows about the way electricity and plasma acts in a vacuum. It would create these similar patterns right

38:11 Well, I'll tell you this Greg. I've had a number of interviews over the past 20 years but one thing i'm pleased to see don't take this just as flattery but I am very pleased to see that you've actually been paying attention so we're not just having at fireside chat with somebody who wants to know what the electric universe is about they've actually paid enough attention that you can ask these questions. And honestly, that means a lot to me because it saves a tremendous amount of time and effort. Well I try! It's tough but I try. But you mentioned Tony Peratt so let's just talk about Peratt for a few minutes because all the critical junctures that I could name

38:54 wherein certain advances were made within the ideas of the Electric Universe. A personal convergence with Tony Peratt occurred about, well 15 years ago and contributed mightily to my own confidence that an ultimate synthesis between the sciences and the Electric Universe, and the ancient human experience. That this grand synthesis is actually possible So I met Tony Peratt, who was probably the world's leading plasma scientist. This is an expert on the charged particle behavior in the plasma environment across the universe. All of the galaxies and stars are embedded immersed in this sea of charged particles we call plasma so all we were interested

39:51 getting to know Tony Peratt from Los Alamos Laboratories back in 2000. And he came to our conference and we were stunned by his response He saw the formations that I had reconstructed and he immediately recognized them as formations that he had when the program was still classified at Los Alamos Laboratories, no longer classified. But he had documented these very explicit exotic configurations in the laboratory

40:30 and he had documented the evolution of these configurations in the laboratory. Both the structures and the evolution of the configurations matched what I had reconstructed only on the basis of human testimony, that meant stories around the world myths and symbols around the world pictures carved on stone great monuments, ritual practices from one culture to another. All of these practices being commemorative of who knows what? What were they commemorating?" Well I was delivering an answer to that question that completely persuaded Tony Peratt and as a result of that he spent several years traveling the world and documenting

41:24 electric discharge formations carved on stone by artists around the world who were responding to formations in the sky from different vantage points on Earth. That gave him an opportunity to do GPS positioning and, and to show in three-dimensional computer simulations that they were seeing the same forms in the sky. Wow! This was a tremendous breakthrough for us. Now, it's unfortunate that stories like this in the history of science often take you into rather controversial and disturbing trends in the sciences or characteristics of scientific revolutions and so on because Tony Peratt came under horrific pressures

42:16 at his place of employment. I'm always tempted to start giving names, but I actually don't want to do that because it just makes people more angry. The thing is that Tony Peratt was effectively shut down and it was just a tragedy because he had this exceptional ability to grab a hold of an idea it's exceptional desire wanting to know and going out and finding out for himself we didn't influence him one bit in his work but what he said to me was that he had proved beyond the shadow of a doubt from his own investigation

43:02 that what I had reconstructed was absolutely on the right track. And these formations were seen in the sky, were carved on stone and can be demonstrated through computer simulations." Before he had completed publication of his work he was already shut down. Man, we see that time and time again. So people were seeing these radical changes in the sky these the effects of these radical changes in the solar system and let's talk about what those radical changes were this kind of gets us into the Saturn Sun stuff and this is really

43:39 This is really where the Electric Universe has come up most with previous guests of mine. There seems to be a lot of symbolism in occult circles and powerful secret societies, and in Hollywood which... A lot of people see these as interconnected anyway but for my money this Saturn-Sun hypothesis has been the most compelling argument for why some of this stuff exists! This idea that Saturn not the Sun was our original star it's very out there but how could this have been possible? Well, it's interesting that you pose that question while I'm looking at your icon here a little bit more studiously the higher side chats. And I see you have absorbed some of this ancient imagery rather well! That's true some of us there... and that actually is quite fascinating to me. The Sun and Saturn equation

44:30 This is very close to the core actually of a revolutionary reconsideration of the ancient sky. I mean, partly it's close to the core because it's so fundamental to a reconsideration of what was on the minds of the first stargazers when we look through the birthplace of astronomy will generally go back to ancient Mesopotamia And Mesopotamia was kind of the birthplace of observational astronomy. They began to actually observe and record planetary motions. Now this is thousands of years after the first stirrings in civilization, quite frankly but something had come down to them through their traditions about planets

45:24 So they preserved lots of archaic traditions about the planets that they were now observing on their very regular or almost fully regular orbits in the first millennium BC, particularly I think after maybe 800 BC. What in the name of heaven was it that they were so driven to remember about these bodies, to preserve this symbolism? Now first and foremost there are these ridiculous seemingly ridiculous ideas about the planet Saturn. It was given the name of Sun, The Sun God, Shamash when

46:11 The astronomers looked at our sun in late times. They knew perfectly well that their language was giving this body we call Sun, was giving it the name Shamash But the curiosity is this huge echo from a more remote time when Shamash was the name of the planet Saturn. Now why was that? This ambiguity between the sun, that we see in the sky as this bright blast of light and a remote planet there is no

46:51 meaningful interpretation of that within our theoretical frameworks today. But when you begin to see that one ancient community after another preserved the same story of Saturn as this ancient sun god, I mean Helios is always thought of his son, the Greek Helios. It was originally the name for the planet Saturn. Nobody disputes this But why? There has to be a reason for things. The Latin Sol was originally the name of Saturn, not the Sun and scholars have been posing this mystery for maybe 150 years, maybe a little more they recognize that the mystery has no easily explained origins but what if we just ask

47:52 whether the solar system has changed, the planetary system has changed. How many such unsolved mysteries would find an explanation? And my assertion today is that all of the mysteries are resolved It's not a small matter. It is possible by limiting your attention to the points of agreement between the different cultures, not seeking to resolve all finite contradictions and so on within particular cultures

48:31 but simply explain the global patterns, the archetypes, the points of convergence between the different cultures where you can see that they are using different languages and different symbols to describe the same thing. Well what happens then to our confidence in the uneventful solar system? It just evaporates on us we go a new frame of reference and we let the ancient accord guide our attention to the different patterns. And then everything makes sense, I will after decades of investigating this fundamental question, I'll say with highest confidence that every recurrent pattern globally

49:25 Is connected vitally and acted in separately to every other global pattern it's one story one tapestry of human experience. It has nothing to do with our sky today so every attempt to understand the ancient world, in terms of things we observed today is doomed to failure no possibility but take the issues up one at a time. I mean, I've challenged people in the past to name two or three recurrent themes of world mythology

50:03 recurrent archetypes and I can now in confidence name the connections between them. These connections then can then be examined and it can be confirmed, right? Before we do run out of time, I got a couple more questions i want to fit in if we could um... And you can answer them quickly you know if you want. I mean I'm not on a strict time limit but uh okay Do you have any indications in this work of if the moon was in its place before the Golden Age or if that came after the cataclysm? Well, again that's an interesting question Greg. The challenge is

50:47 to avoid speculation. See, I have been advising people for years not to jump to any conclusions other than what follows inescapably from evidence that we can name that we have in hand you cant have these traditions without a celestial provocation okay well how do we deal with something like well I want to know whether the moon was apart of this planetary arrangement? Well, I looked for the moon up and down the libraries in 1970s, and so on. And I thought I found lots of references to the moon. The problem was that as I looked more closely, I saw well wait a minute that's not the moon it's a crescent but it's not behaving like the moon It's actually revolving around the polar center of the sky in a cycle of day and night! It's below in the phase of growing bright its above in the phase of growing dim. I talk about this a fair amount

51:43 our recent video material, Discourses on an Alien Sky. But that crescent in the famous star and crescent image for example of the ancient world? That had nothing to do with the moon so I can't find the moon! As far as i can tell the moon wasn't seen it wasn't in the theater of the gods that was uh... fixed at the celestial pole. So I suspect we didn't see it, Greg. I suspect that the plasma environment around the Earth, let's just say around and substantially on a broad donut-like torus around the equator of the Earth would have occluded any image of the Moon at all and i just suspected gradually appeared uneventfully over

52:37 hundreds or thousands of years. It was never a subject of myth, but the story of this great spectacular crescent day and night that crescent gave its name and its mythic history to our moon as it did clarify over time. That created a huge confusion. Interesting, interesting yeah! It makes sense I mean if to me it's reasonable to think that the moon would have gotten into its orbit during this cataclysm...I mean we're talking about something as extreme the Sun and Saturn having some type of switch off. I mean, it's not really implausible that a little rock would also have some type of change in that environment also but another question I wanted to ask you... So how do black holes fit into this paradigm? Do they exist at all in the Electric Universe model? Yeah okay well okay now that's a shift but

53:30 I appreciate it is that just a second i take a minute for my mind to go there right now. are a mathematical contrivance, that's what bothers people in our group. But we do know with certainty is that there is huge attractive force at the cores of galaxies you can look at the stars over 20 years or so have been pretty well documented telescopically close to the center rotation of our galaxy and they follow paths that are very like comets, coming wandering in from the extremes and then zipping past, whipping past the Sun and so on. And then zipping back out. So some of these bodies we've seen only in partial glimpses of their circuits over years because it's going to take more than

54:28 the time of the observations and so on to complete the picture up there their full circuit much longer in some cases but that the fact that they come in and zip around the Sun is quite I mean, a zip around the center at the galaxy it's very telling. There is a huge hugely powerful center gravity core of the Milky Way. This has to be explained! Now, Wal Thornhill's never denied that for example he just doesn't call it a black hole he thinks about in electrical terms, a plasma focus device He got very good argument for what's going on at the center galaxies and it fits perfectly with something we see that has no explanation under the black hole idea which is the galactic jet Galactic jets are phenomenal

55:28 seemingly inconceivable streams of material up along the axes of galaxies out into surrounding space without dissipating. They don't dissipate as gases in a vacuum, something is holding them into this tight linear configuration. Well that's what electric currents do It's an electric phenomenon. And now, peer-reviewed papers are beginning to appear to address the electric qualities of galactic jets."

56:07 That's interesting man, I love it. It is all fascinating and the future of the Electric Universe movement as a whole i think is just incredibly bright yeah all that necessary is that we maintain our sanity and don't get into too many arguments and just keep going with the community's work Well here's another random one for you What does the Electric Universe model propose or does it propose any differences to what would happen to a human in space as opposed to what the movies show where people freeze really quickly, because when we're talking about the fabric of space being different I wonder if it would have a different effect on a human body.

56:50 I'd be surprised if there is much of a disparity here with common opinion because a vacuum is a vacuum. Death is death, right? Yeah and don't try to breathe because you won't get very far. Right That makes sense, but I just figured it was worth asking. Oh that's funny! I never object to questions of this sort Greg. Sometimes we dispense with them in ways that may seem a little cavalier but no the picture we would have of the vacuum of space would differ from the norm maybe only in this sense that we believe over large distances

57:27 the charged particles that are present in that vacuum, however sparse. Those charged particles across the vacuum of space interstellar space, intergalactic space and so on... That power is unimaginable! Yeah A lot more serious than sticking a fork in the light socket. Yes indeed. Okay well my last real crazy one for you here is that I do find all this fascinating, and i really like radical ideas and the better case we can make the better of course let me ask about Earth itself. Much of our ideas about its composition come from theories about gravity, this is why we are supposed to have a dense solid iron core at least to my understanding but do you see the earth's composition as being different in any significant way from the traditional model?

58:19 Well, again a perfect question. And I don't even think that Wal Thornhill or others more familiar with plasma environments in our group would hazard too many guesses about the nature of the interior of the Earth because there are so many unknowns. That's true! In terms of plasma science and bodies evolving in plasma environments, the Earth could actually be hollow at its core Yeah, that's the golden word I was waiting to hear. Oh okay but don't go calling me a hollow orca! It's just that we don't know and one thing about plasma accretion in a vacuum chamber is that it can be much less dense at the center of an electric discharge in plasma

59:14 than some distance from that center, just as temperatures go up with distance from the center and so on. So when thinking about the plasma qualities of the earth and possibly the interior of the earth, you're in a completely different world than conventional science. But it is still a world largely unknown. Yeah I figured that was a worthy question because as a comparative mythologist, as a guy who's looked at a lot of ancient accounts there are some that talk about cavities in the Earth or I mean you can look at the Vedic texts they have some interesting accounts for the Earths composition

59:50 Okay, Greg. I'm sorry to have to be careful on this guy decided in this instance be really careful to make sure that we don't leave either. I don't believe a misinterpretation here right of course it my I've looked at the ideas of the of this primeval enclosure or opening and When I take those ideas back to the beginnings, they had to do with the enclosure of the gods. It wasn't a part of our planet here on Earth. So it's an opening created by a toroidal form that is the boundary at the celestial kingdom So it's always this enclosure or opening, whatever the language might be. It fed a tremendous amount of mythology that got confused with the mythology of Earth because the words for that celestial enclosure became our words for land

1:00:43 And earth in later times so this is a an evolution of language over time that feeds a great deal of misunderstanding but if you go back to the general features in this story of the primeval enclosure. you'll see it's always the land of the gods. Yeah, that makes sense. It's kind of a matter of perspective like we were on the inside and when you're talking about the enclosure... Yes Gotcha! Ah it's very interesting but yeah I'm a huge fan of the hollow earth idea Of course I'm just an idiot college dropout who has no idea if it has any validity But when I hear-I mean like I said The composition of the Earth is based largely on density and gravity And here we are talking about other forces so Oh yeah, yeah

1:01:28 some doors for sure. Yeah, indeed so I'm with you on that and I just would ask that people not associate me with the hollow earth concept as it's presented normally. Absolutely! And i have looked at all of that...I never want to leave behind some possibilities that might be worth exploring so I spend more time than people would know following the more exotic ideas with an openness of mind, actually. And I think it's important that in this day and age where there is going to be a revolution in the sciences and theory that we make openness... Well, we put a premium on openness, eagerness to be corrected or correction is called for. This is a mantra that we should carry forward in life

1:02:20 Amen. Well, yeah I guess that pretty much brings us to the end of the road! I thought this was a lot of fun and we covered a lot of ground and made a pretty compelling case it's impossible to cover in just one show but is there anything major that you'd like to squeeze in maybe? Well, we have a conference Electric Universe 2016 It's June 17th-19th in Phoenix Now, if anyone listening to this finds a point of interest in this diverse subject matter go to Thunderbolts.info because you'll see a huge library of evidence bearing on the themes of this discussion and taking you into much greater detail. Follow Space News from The Electric Universe that is published regularly

1:03:15 YouTube channel. Take a look at the documentaries that are listed on our website, Thunderbolts.info The material is substantial it's all fact-based and it's very persuasive for those who will actually take the time to hear the message That has been our experience Awesome. Yeah, Thunderbolts.info is the website it will take you days to get through everything on there lots of information I love it and also your books as well people should check them out too so Oh yes all that information and videos and so on are linked from our website So that makes an excellent starting point thunderbolts.info Beautiful Well thanks again Dave for doing this I had a blast Take care yourself out there alright

1:04:06 Okay, thank you sir. Greg? You got it! Later! And boom goes the dynamite people there we have it David Talbot super nice guy really does great work hope you like that one. I've heard a lot from David over the years and i'm pretty familiar with his work and I know a large part of the audience is familiar with the Electric Universe model too so, I wanted to ask a few random questions at the end there about the moon about dying in space and of course the possibility of hollow earth. And im glad I did because I don't hear Dave comment on those things very often And I like the idea that those ancient accounts describing an inner and outer world could actually be allusions to Dave's polar configuration setup. That's really interesting, too. So I think that was a great answer. Maybe this Saturn sun switch was part of the Great Cataclysm we hear echoed in the ancient past? Maybe the Ice Age was the period between suns. That could make sense if like Dave said civilization as we know it came right out of the wake of the catastrophe. Maybe it was a catalyst for such an ice age

1:05:07 And maybe that Saturn Sun switch is the source of the occult themes that involve Saturn and the symbolism we see coming out of the Hollywood machine today. I don't know but it is a compelling possibility, and I just don't know enough about anything really to wrap my head around how we could logically explain that switch and how Saturn ended up where it is now. I can see a paradigm where Systems tend to self correct Dave talked about that and listeners the show i think could see parallels with hattie bob's ebrov invasion and the movement of massive celestial bodies in the solar system. And the lack of ancient references to the moon is also interesting in that context, and just consider what we know about things like the nazi bell or the work of tesla from this perspective

1:05:51 I think it fits together pretty nicely. Another piece of evidence that I saw on Thunderbolts.info, I forgot to bring up was Ceres! Remember the stories about strange lights on Ceres? What if that was some type of electrical static charge or something creating that light? I could buy that. I also like how this all could tie in with electromagnetism and UFOs and free energy, i think the electric universe is swept under the rug for the same reason all these other things are. Removing the quarantine around these things would be like giving prisoners keys to their cell. I think the energy implications are what they're trying to keep from us. The off-the books physics Joseph Farrell talks about...also connected

1:06:30 And I do think at lower levels there is a lot of what Dave described as the momentum of prior belief. Man, what a great term! Beautiful! I think there's a lot of that out there but in my skeptical stoner mind i can't help but speculate that there's a more calculated and sinister reason modern science wouldn't recognize electrical forces as a big deal if it If it's so obvious and instead why they focus solely on its byproduct gravity, it setting up academia with a faulty map they love to do that but these are my words not daves and i don't wanna drag him down too my ridiculous level either way he is a great guy fascinating body of work. I think incorporates very nicely in the bigger picture of the things we talk about

1:07:14 And thanks for listening in the plus show we get even deeper into aspects of the electric universe more about the timing of this and the catastrophe dinosaurs reasons for a cover-up free energy connections fire breathing dragon myths and more all great stuff you know the drill Sign up at thehighersidechatsplus.com to get a second hour of this show and every show! Thanks to the Plus people for keeping me going, and the forum users for their suggestions about the Electric Universe that really made me move Dave up to top list faster than I might have otherwise. Please join Plus if you haven't already... And that is it from me this week Your Move Keepers of the Saturnian Secret Your Frickin' Move