Daniele Bolelli | Taoist Philosophy, Rejecting Dogma, & The Warrior’s Path

00:01 Hey Greg and the Higher Side audience, my name is Scott Perkins from Madison Wisconsin. I'm this round's Money Bomb winner! Thank you all so much. I am one of the fortunate people to have discovered the show in its infancy and have been dedicated to following it ever since. I'm a second ship professional delivery driver and I'm one of those weird people who absolutely loves my job. I'm an aspiring professional photographer and blogger as well. With this money I will be able pursue my art and invest in some photography equipment. I can't forget my man Greg though, and for all the show has done for me personally. I want to gift back half of the winnings to him through that fancy little donation button he has on that really well designed website you all should check out! I really loved your interview with Alfred Lambermont Weber who mentioned a time traveler named Andrew D. Bishago. You gotta get him on Greg!! Anyway keep it up peace and love from the madtown

00:57 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Boom! Right out of the gate. Congrats and thank you to this month's Money Bomb winner, you guys know I like to give half the donations back to a random guy and this month Scott was that guy. I gave him $305 and he gave 150-250 right back to me What a prince You're a prince Scott Thanks for listening

01:44 Alright, how we doing higher side chatters me I've never been better drinking a little drink smoking a little smoke from sunny San Diego getting ready to enjoy my first holiday season outside of the retail world And it was just about two years ago after a hellish 10 hour Black Friday shift that I peeled myself off the couch and went downtown and got into the green room of the Madhouse Comedy Club with Joey Diaz, and whipped out one of those early semi-embarrassing shows that I am oh so thankful for. A real pivotal moment! Wanting that type of free lifestyle so bad and I hated retail so much, I promised myself I would never go through that again. But I didn't work hard enough that year and November came around again And I said okay well this time...I'm serious

02:31 And here we are. But folks, I want this for everyone and today is one of those shows that has a lot of content that i think can be very applicable and helpful to many situations going on right now whether it's the stress at the holidays or the pressure of work or the frustration of feeling stuck in a life you didn't really want to get stuck in anger at the lack of guidance and direction that you could have used in your youth even the protesters on behalf of the Ferguson situation Or better yet, all the judgmental comments I've seen about this that really make me embarrassed and disappointed. Watching people who have never had to struggle or even thought to sympathize with people who struggle start judging and spouting off about the way people are protesting

03:16 When they've never thought to be that critical of the actual oppressors or the systematic corruption that makes these people feel like nobody cares. Because if they had, we would have fixed these problems a long time ago But... That's enough of that until after the show I hate to fill up a guests' time on THC with a bunch of front-end commentary but after the show... Look out. So some of you might be pretty familiar with today's guest, Daniele Bolelli He is in the rotation as a guest on both Joe Rogan and Duncan Trussells popular shows and has his own popular podcast called The Drunken Taoist all three being shows that I tune into fairly often so it was a real treat for me to have one of the big kids down at the humble THC table And even though some of the concepts might seem a little oversimplified

04:00 maybe at times or they should be obvious. When I really examine the Rolodex of issues in my own life and the people I know's lives, or even the larger events on the national stage, I think it is super important to be reminded of some of these ideas of Taoism because if they were really that obvious and fundamental then I wouldn't see so many people not staying in the moment not being mindful of the world around them Not striving for excellence or balance There are a lot of imbalances out there You know it, I know it. Daniele Bolelli knows it So im gonna play this short little ad for THC Plus and conspiracies And we're gonna get down with the DAO and the man himself, Daniele Bolelli on the other side

06:14 I love you dearly. Yes, honestly you flatter me too much if you were a member of the opposite sex i would propose See what'd I tell ya? Merry Christmas people Alright people, as you know on this show we spend a lot of time analyzing the crimes of the planet's puppet masters exposing corruption and dismantling propaganda. And while that definitely has its place to only focus on conspiracies in our external world like anything can be a serious distraction from looking internally strengthening our character and equipping ourselves with tools to better deal with life's harsher times and things we cant change

06:53 So today we're going to do a little bit to fix that with a philosopher and teacher that has been insightful to me when I need a good kick in the brain. His name is Daniele Bolelli, the man behind the wildly popular Drunken Taoist podcast an accomplished martial artist author of On The Warrior's Path And Create Your Own Religion A How-To Book Without Instructions He's taught a wide variety of classes at various universities in Southern California Jack of many trades, a dominant Taoist Daniele Bolelli welcome to THC Thank you so much, Greg. Yeah man it's great to have you here I always enjoy your show and your Taoist lecture series and really what i hope that we could do is explore that philosophy and your take on it how we can apply it to life today maybe give the people little positivity in this painful world what do you think? Let's play let's go there! Alright let's do it! I know you're really familiar with a lot of different philosophies religions and cultures So... What is about Taoism that puts above all others

07:49 Because each philosophy or religion has its own particular set of doctrines, it's all things that you kind of need to study. You know, you need to study the Quran to be a Muslim, you need to read the Bible to be a Christian, and you need to study at certain philosophical schools to really be part of it no reason speaks the language of nature you never have to ever read about a team to actually be practicing ideas. No is me sort of looking at how the universe sees and basically just telling you the blueprint for how it works,

08:27 believe doesn't enter the picture you don't need to believe in ideas is kind of like believing in the force of gravity and it's there and whether you believe it or not that really matter. Is just that if you know how it works then you can use your advantage and if you dont know how it works a lot of heavy things will fall on your head on regular basis release that simple so thats what I like that requires no belief, here requires some way many dollars concerts are things that you can just by having been alive and have you paid attention when you read the ideas like oh of course i don't make perfect sense that's kind of part of my own experience it's what i already know to experience. Any other cases maybe you dont exactly already nobody gives you tips that resonate with your experience in like all that's why works the way does

09:19 So I don't feel that it's something that is trying to convince me. It's not something that i need to believe in, its something pretty much addressing the world as-is Exactly man and the more I look into Taoism and the insights of its philosophers and teachers I have many more of those aha moments than I ever did with Catholicism which I really had no say and it was just sort of stamped on me at an early age before i could even make a decision. But tell us about the origins of the Tao Te Ching in The Legend Of Lao Tzu because its pretty interesting, largely allegorical but what do we know? Yeah cause i mean the history of Daoism is completely lost to some degree you know the earliest story nobody knows goes so far back in time that

10:02 you know the main and i was taxed without a ching was attributed to this guy loud so but nobody even knows if it's actually real person weather is sort of these meeting found their weather maybe was multiple people wrote under the pen name of loud. So it's all sort of meetings legends and some of these missing legends are actually pretty funny like there's one story about louts that says that, After a lifetime working in the he was kind of like the head of imperial library in this one kingdom in china and acquire you know bunch of disciples people basically spend time with him because they thought it was this brilliant guy really wise. Buddy never written anything down so by the time he's uh he wants to retire and get out of town,

10:51 He's about to leave town and one of the guards at the frontier says well i hear so much about you everybody say your is brilliant wise man but never written any books i wanna know it would be ashamed for your, insights to be lost so please can u before you leave can you write something down allowed to just say no i just want. and the guard is a well that's really unfortunate you feel that way because i am not have the power to do what i want your hand these means that i'm gonna throw you in jail and keep you there until you don't write me this damn book. How to then grab pen and paper or whatever ancient chinese used to write stuff and just for the next three days right few years later series of eighty one points

11:39 hands it to the guard, the guard is satisfied lets him go and Lao Tzu wanders off into the mountains and is never heard from again. So I mean 99.9% this is a legend and its not actual historical event but its a fun legend, its an interesting one. Right yeah that's really bizarre story and given the fact that it most likely legend do you think there are some hidden meaning that you can extract from that? Yeah I mean the fact even the very first line of the data change that can be explained is not a turn out now meaning if you can talk about it if you can write it if you can put it into words and its not exactly what do you mean by that is that you know this loud so hesitant about committing anything to paper. What did referring to with the fact that even the best ideas

12:33 Most often human beings manage to turn them into dogmas. So what is talking about is that the is it's an experience is alive without their nature result there within ourselves. When you turn into a pure intellectual ideas and committee to pay per is very very easy for people to start misunderstanding it and maybe in the name of devotion and thinking is a great idea but they start making it too rigid, end the nature of the dial is that its flexible it has to be adapted moment by moment The printer does not have the capacity to adapt to its audience to adopt to the present moment so that's one of the things that we start warning with even when that story about essentially loud so writing a book under the rest. Is about this night,

13:24 The word is a dangerous game because very easy to misunderstand now once we have done that. Then we can write stuff down once were cleared and thats problematic then by all means let's use it, what you know the first line of the night the fact that you can talk or write about it who's the last line right then you say ok can't be done it's over and instead he goes on to write a whole book about it which seems contradictory but is just like a warning label is telling you what child you know that carefully. Understand the we can play well said man and i love that attitude i wish today there was a lot more flexibility in people's beliefs and what they think they know because

14:06 There's always going to be exceptions to any rules in an infinite universe, and the Taoist parables do a great job of showing that. Almost seeming paradoxical in nature most times. And they figured out by pointing it out that you can sort of talk around the Dao or the way or the nature of life but language never really locks it down 100%. It cant! That's why it is a very delicate game talking about Taoism because it so easy to over rationalize and thereby lose some of his meaning.

14:43 That's why it takes guys like Alan Watts who are great in the way, like Alan Watts. He didn't really create anything completely original from a philosophical standpoint but he was able to translate Taoist ideas to our Western audience in beautiful fashion without losing the subtlety and the poetry so Alan Watts in that sense was an absolute genius you know? He was able to do something that most people really could not do very well Yeah, Alan Watts was definitely my gateway into this stuff and he often talks about Zen Buddhism. Is there much of a distinction between Taoism and Zen Buddhism? Is there difference? Mild in the sense that Zen was born from the encounter of Taoism and Buddhism so Zen is really a Taoism wearing Buddhist clothes kind of thing it's

15:36 many many ways they are very similar just the one will include some aspect of buddhist ideas and one doesn't but it is very much related. Right on, good to know. Well I love it and i love the humility of its approach to the big questions rather than the western way of being so pompous as to say you have all the answers but does it seem at all to you that a philosophy like Taoism is even kind of harder to grasp in modern times because even on top of our western culture just having a completely different type of mindset We also do a lot less real living that we used too A lot less pondering those big questions It's kinda like

16:12 It's kinda like presenting people a road map when they never even really considered the journey they were on. One level yes, on the other level the nature of the increasing complexity of life defect that we have access to more information than ever is making it Can i follow you to more people that some of the traditional dogma is the humanity has relied on for a really long time are. Who placed limited in the face of these higher complexity, this is why ideas such as the nation state which has been dominant for a really long time beginning to make less and less sense in a globalized world absolutely this is why even if you look at tv shows from the nineteen fifties and today

16:56 You know in the nineteen fifty's we like simple stories good guys bad guys right days there such a more refined degree of complexity that indicate. A greater appreciation for sabato thoughts for the fact that things are not always black and white this is something that i was appreciate very very much, Yeah that's actually a great point shows like blacklist where he is the number one wanted guy in the world but he's also the main protagonist it's very interesting that we are focusing more on that gray area. Absolutely showing and white wise that they're important its important because displaying precisely with the idea of that things cannot be oversimplified too much

17:46 That yes there may be a moral dimension to things but is it considerably more subtle than simply say don't do this don't do that. And that's where Taoism goes to play. Yeah, that's what makes it so great! So let's say you got someone out there struggling to find their place in the world stuck in a passionless nine-to-five job trying to stay out of debt and they're staring down the barrel of a stressful holiday season why should they care? Yes it's an interesting philosophy but how can this enrich a person's life in a practical way My attitude is that i don't really care about anything unless you can reach the quality of life so religion philosophy sports or anything in life movies books. If it's just enough itself if it's just a little entertainment i mean thats nice and all but at the end of the day as you say there are more important things that happen on a day to day basis in everybody's life

18:43 i'm only interested in how do these things can be translated into making a difference. Inform me that was the idea of religious giving me tips on how to navigate through life out to give you an example and sort of more specific physical example because the body so clear that we understand it easier fashion just pure intellectual stuff, the creator of judo jay goddard based his entire martial art on ism and the whole idea was that by playing judo you see how do we concepts apply in reality. Weather you know it is the other guy able to throw your not a lot of the time depends on

19:29 find application of ideas right there in the moment catching precise timing and when you see it work over and over again on a physical level. Danny become interesting to see how you can apply it in a practical level so i give example let's say you have kids, anybody who tried to teach their kids when you paid your kids with the same exact model regardless of which kid they are talking to. Is bound to fail because people are not all the same if u try to let's say be the one who is a put in sort of tough rules and do these don't do that, what some kids are gonna respond great today need the discipline they need this structure and if you give them too much freedom they can get lost

20:16 The next key if you try to do the very same thing with the next kid just gonna piss them off cause they don't respond to that, did you respond very well if u talk to them if your reason with me if you show them why you have them do certain things or wire suggesting something else it's not bad. The more flexible reasoning approaches good order rules are good or bad for the matter is that each one of those methods is perfect for the one person and he's not perfect for the next person So that ability which is essentially what the wisdom is telling you that ability to read the situation, who have the awareness to apply the proper tool for a proper job.

20:56 is what it's all about. If you're applying the, you know the idea may not be wrong but the context will be wrong and at that point the result will be wrong. You know a hammer is great tool to drive nails into wall is not a great tool to eat pasta. It's kind of that same thing you know? Its' not that the hammer is wrong or pasta is wrong its just there is bad match and knowing what works in what situation is basically what Taoism is all about Yeah, another lesson that's kind of in this vein. I know you're big into the application of these ideas into martial arts and the warrior's path and the art of warfare And one aspect I really like is seeing that strength in the flexibility For example The oak tree is considered far stronger than a willow tree but in extreme weather A willow will bend and sway with the winds whereas the rigidness Of the oak tree it will cause it to snap in half and I think That's an example of where there's one of those great lessons in there

21:52 Absolutely like you need to have both unique twelve strength and flexibility because that will allow you to decide when it's appropriate to apply what exact balance of those energies in order that we intend to emphasize the aspect which is the software yielding aspect. Just because i'm everybody understand the yang which is more masculine aggressive assertive aspects, you know the young strength is obvious anybody can understand it The union is a lot more subtle so that we can emphasize that but then does not mean that it's all about being soft and yielding and. It's about finding the precise mix that particular situation require ideally you wanna use as little energy as possible just not to waste it, show them or even as possible but then there's nothing in that you don't use strength or assertiveness suggest used enough to get the job done

22:46 In some cases and have maybe still a hell of a lot and that's ok if that's what is required at the moment that's what you do, like example i was bringing earlier judo is funny because when people look at judo they do not see these softer you know blink music can people moving effortlessly and throwing people all over. There's a lot of muscle work there's a lot of sweat there's a lot of it does not look like this thing But the reality is that it is just not saying don't use strength, its just saying use as much strength as needed to get the job done but no one ounce more because otherwise you're gonna wear out too soon. Yeah one line I really like in this vein is bad warriors lose good warriors win and great warrior's win without fighting. Yep exactly if you can get the job done

23:38 Think of it like a conversation weather is business oriented weather is relationship oriented if you get into a discussion with somebody and have disagreements. And your able to sort of them all the way to submission either through your superior reasoning or by yelling louder or something, Yeah ok you want the argument that's better than losing the argument. But you just planted a seed for the other person hating your guts and resenting you and so it's half of victory at best you know there is something there that not necessarily going to go well down the road if u can find a way to approach that same potential conflict

24:18 And the lead to a result where the other person feel happy with the results that you achieve do you want. That's a real win there is no real fight at that moment you work out of the situation in such a way that everybody kind of gets what they want, how it doesn't always worked away i mean sometime just some time you can spend some time with more direct conflict and a situation many many many of the conflicts we get into life we do it because we don't know how to play rights i was listening the other day to a debate between couple people and not gonna mention cause i like both of them so i dont wanna pick on them but they were arguing about religion, what is this long ass fight back and forth about you said that you said this

25:08 the larry of things that were basically doing same thing with them slightly different emphasis so this one thing that could have been just a friend conversation where you just see how. You know i see your point i think there's also these other aspect to consider and if you do it in a gentle enough way the other person will go okay are acknowledging that i have a point, And yes oh now i see that you also have a slightly different point of make sense so both people could walk out of the discussion gaining something. You know making keeping their own position but making it more nuanced and understanding a little deeper, any state they are at each other for three hours saying how your right hand right no i'm right

25:52 That's not particularly productive. Right, right and it's kind of in line with on a larger scale this is the concept that kinda took me awhile but Daoism is relatively moral less or I guess morally neutral philosophy would be a better way of saying it but its also anti-war Yeah yeah and it's not a war because it's primarily because it sees it as a waste of energy that in a lot of cases you can get the job done without so much conflict is not saying he knows his it's a new there are cases where maybe appropriate but even then you wanna do only enough to get the job done. And their bunch of kids is worried three been on the most appropriate tool and your getting the job done,

26:38 i'm with pain a really heavy price so that's why is it time to emphasize. The most limited application of war now the most limited strictly too because part of the world business is that Generally speaking defeated people are not incredibly happy with the people who beat them so one of the problem of warfare is that it kind of never ends unless you go for sort of a gang scan mongol solution where you just wipe out entire population where there's nobody left to fight you. Unless you go for full scale genocide and eliminate your enemies were there no one left,

27:18 Then you're gonna have people who hate your guts and we're gonna be looking for a chance to hit you back when you are weak That's not really a way to solve things long term Right that's why we have so many pockets on this planet of multi-generational centuries long warfare because everybody goes back to a point in their head where they were wrong and they're like this was the start of it. No one actually looks at the whole picture and sees that its been going on both sides forever. Exactly is kinda like these Israelis palestinian things, when are they ever going to stop? It's not that they are fighting where they really fight to wipe each other off the face of the earth

27:57 You know if one side won't wipe the other of the face of the earth you would be clearly horrendous buddy will be done. these instead is this low level low skilled fighting that goes on for decades and likely will continue going for a decade so unless somebody goes for the genocide solution which is not a solution it's fucked up and horrible. Then the only other one is figure out something where you can find some kind of compromise that works for the greatest number of people involved How is some cases there are people who just don't work that way you know it's like you don't compromise with either of your other play people were not willing to play ball that way and use all the subtlety you want, you don't get it so in decades ok now is moon say there are places where me maybe a profit than to go down and fight but did sort of last resort.

28:51 It's an approach to war and a philosophy that I really wish we could apply to world governments today where we saw like, We elect you as a representative And You communicate and deal with other regions around the world for us But if you get us into physical altercations or a war you should lose your job because nobody wants war none of the citizens want that but instead our Mindset is that if we've been in a war for president's entire four-year term well. We don't wanna look at that as a failure we instead want to reelect that person because you can't change horses midstream. I've been a fan, i always say it as a joke but actually don't really mean it is a joke my solution to it all would be what i referred to as gladiators for world peace which is give us back the coliseum anybody wants to go to war with each other hand them axes and swords

29:41 put them in the middle of the arena have them hack each other to pieces while everybody else can never be around check it out on pay per view and that way no civilians are involved because the problem with most wars is that the majority of people dying or not the people fighting each other they are civilians who really want to just be left alone. You would be if you really wanna fight just get the people who wanna fight to fight each other from everybody else, Yeah, that would be sort of unfortunately the gladiator for world peace idea hasn't quite caught on. I'm sure they catch us on will receive a call from Stockholm and four to pick up the Nobel Peace Prize. This is the solution to all humanity's problems but hasn't quite happened yet. Right? Obama will have to turn it over to you. Yeah, I agree well

30:33 I love these ideas but it is tough to know when to fight back and how much to take in stride, when to be flexible. How does a Taoist deal with an oppressive government? No in fact that's why I'm saying again Taoism... That's what I mean by subtlety right? Taoism is not telling you always take it in stride Always like you know when you read the sort of Christian thing about turn the other cheek It's very sweet sentiment And I think many cases he makes even sense but there is the time when you don't know what it's not appropriate for that particular situation so that is nice that. There are certain guidelines by always leave you the room for exceptions to those guidelines like most days alternative other chicken let things go and find a way to make it work without conflict, add one day just hammering the nose and just drop you on the floor maybe the property in that one situation

31:28 Clear is a judgment call right it's an individual judgement code and what makes somebody's judgement better than another really only the results in leads to. You know if you can find out afterwards whether that was the correct judgement call or not there is no blue print to tell you ahead of time mean that would be a recipe on life is too subtle, who respond to reach address apiece you cant Apply to these particular situation happening in the second rules that were good for the last one maybe they will work maybe not. The best you can do is kind of make up your mind according to everything you know and you find out by the results it leads to weather that was the right approach or not,

32:14 Well this has me thinking about the situation in Ferguson because last night they issued a state of emergency for Missouri and I know a lot of people are angry. A lot of people write me emails about this situation What do you think would be an effective response? Are you in favor of protesting or is that futile Really the easy question you need to ask yourself about any of these things is not whether it's right or wrong is working or not can you see it working if you keep going on and off, it's kind of like the look at the civil rights movement. You are the gamble right you didn't know it until later when i work or not, no idea of economic protest boycotts the montgomery bus boycott the city is. It was a gamble it wasn't matter of scene will you be able to persevere long enough that these businesses really start hurting and they're losing money and then they are gonna have to give into your order will define the way around where your boycott means nothing can you get tired before they do

33:15 You really the idea is sound it makes sense but then it's a matter of how you carry out so a lot of this stuff is um I would apply sort of in general aside for just the specific Ferguson example is do you see those tactics. In a way, like put yourself in your enemy shoes and how do you think they are going to react to this if you were them? How would you react So do you think that that thing they are doing will tell get the job done with a child achieve success or not if you think it does perfect go for it, if u feel bad you playing putting yourself in the other person shoes you would have a counter to that you find a way not to respond to that through just be sure of in a way that you will. If its within your power to ever say so what's gonna happen you're not gonna respond to that well then you know is there on strategy

34:12 Is the same in a discussion with loved ones you know when people get into an argument before you say something think about how would you respond if the other person said it to you. You know i may feel right to say but is that going to lead to a resolution of the conflict that's beneficial for both, what is just going to piss off the other person because you got to get it off your chest and feel they are writing screaming to the other person face Right, yeah I can't say that standing toe to toe with riot cops really... does a whole lot except it does show on the media that if people put themselves in the street and they get beaten down by police, it might raise awareness of how bad the situation is or how ridiculous we've gotten about the idea of people just assembling to talk about an issue. We're not allowed to really do that anymore so I mean it serves a purpose there but largely I think its uh... it's a bit futile because you're just gonna get beaten down and locked up and then two weeks later will be onto the next story

35:13 I mean, exactly. It depends on do you get the reaction you want that way? Is there getting beaten down and arrested? Is he getting enough outrage out there that is going to make a difference because it's gonna apply pressure on the powers that be or is it not? That's the question. I mean, the whole Martin Luther King, for example, Birmingham confrontation where you do essentially set yourself to beat up by racist cops and white supremacists if you if you want first unit to have tv covering it because if you don't have tv covering your just need your get up for no cause nobody's gonna care. TV coverage needs to create an outrage and that outrage needs to have enough strength to apply pressure in this case on government to step in and do something about it, you know in the context of the birmingham confrontation they had a cold war going for them you know the soviet union united states were competing

36:09 For who can look the best on the world scene they were competing to convince as many countries as possible to join their side. So some horrendously racist thing going on in the middle of the US shown on TV was not good propaganda for the us government you would make them do bad and i couldn't afford it and so they had to respond to applying that pressure force then he was perfect he was a great strategy. It depends again on the context is Is what you're doing is going to create that kind of outrage and pressure that there will be the response you desire then you are doing exactly the right thing in standing total with the police and going to jail is the right thing to do. If it's not going to get their reaction then it just a waste. The irony is that we don't know until we've taken the leap of faith to put ourselves out there and take a shot at it

37:05 Yeah and i'm all for taking a shot at him because in many cases you don't know until after the fact but at least you should have an idea whether you do see it going somewhere weather there's a reason why you think he is gonna go somewhere or your just saying I'll do it because, i think its right to do it. you need to at least have a plan and again there is a very good planning the situation i'm not entirely sure i'm not saying that's why i'm not really committing either way on this because i'm not entirely sure i haven't started it in depth enough to know where he's gonna go. So i'm not saying is a bad idea is some kind of on the fence cause i don't know if it's easy to affecting people strongly enough that there will be. I need your response to this but they will be a change happening as out of this action i'm not entirely sure how we really have to cut started,

37:55 in much closer fashion to really get it. Right, and I try to keep from making too many absolute statements myself but i do think there's some good advice in there for anyone involved in the Ferguson issue or a similar conflict who really serve the higher purpose as hard as it is to get past the blind outrage and frustration you have to think about cause-and-effect especially when the media is trying to paint you as the bad guy don't give them ammunition to distract from the larger issue of abuse of power and corruption in the American police force It is important to be on point and to frame that conflict between the people in the system, not one sector of the population versus another.

38:33 But let's bring this back down to the personal level. A big bullet point to Taoism is practicing mindfulness I've heard it a thousand times from Alan Watts and other philosophers, but it is a little bit vague for some people What does practicing mindfulness mean exactly? In a way its awareness Awareness of yourself just be brutally honest with yourself your limitations what how you react to things. It's very important, like so much of our behavior is just reactive to external stimuli and somebody else say something and we are just like the bull that if you wave a red flag in front the bull is gonna charge. There's no choice there, you're just reacting. So being brutally honest with oneself seeing one's pattern now you respond to things and also awareness of everything else around you

39:25 how other people are, what makes them tick. how do they react and react to things once you understand it in a way you can pretty much predict what's gonna happen before you do anything. Which is why then you have the tools to know whether that particular action is going to prove useful or not, if you know ahead that say certain things he's gonna get a reaction out of somebody then you'll know I had whether you wanna go there are not Is that leading where you wanna be like i don't know if your cno the never read all the books by robert green. The forty eight laws of power and those kind of books i've heard interviews with them i'm pretty familiar with the work yeah yeah i mean

40:11 a lot of what is saying is essentially applied now isn't. A lot of his thing about sort of that's the game apply to life a lot of it is just ideas in order to get the job done with the least possible effort, mindfulness is the tool that allow you to do it because he's really about awareness of yourself and awareness of everything else around you and the best way to practice it beside the sort of stepping outside of yourself for a second and actually paying attention to what's going on in looking looking at reality for what it is, ready there then walk forward before what you projected to be the other thing is really boiled down to. When did you able to put yourself into somebody else shoes and that way see the world through their eyes then you know how they are gonna react to things empathy is a huge tool in regard

41:10 It's really interesting because major religions, they do just externalize our power. You get the dogma you get the Bible it's got all the rules in it and you follow the rules and call yourself a Christian And people get used to that approach when you hear about Taoism and its just kind of like oh find the answer look for it figure out People are like well thats not what I'm looking for! I want the answer man Exactly That is part why Taoism will never be something for everybody because it's great if you have awareness, if you have the discipline to stick with paying attention to things. If you are, you know how you need to have a lot of talents to apply properly

41:52 most people are either too lazy or never been taught properly or you know just lack some of the natural talent to apply it right and so it's like give me some don't make me work so damn hard just give me some damn dogma give me something that tells me do these don't do that. I follow the recipe and not be happy no i always use example of cooking in order if u, If you ever been around somebody who's really well, you're gonna know that they don't go by recipe when you ask them recipes the most frustrating thing in the world cause every time they will be like.

42:33 Will you put a little bit of these like what the hell is a little bit how much how many spoons are talking about exactly a little bit and then let it cook for. While until he's a little brown and your like, what does that mean how many minutes are we in or you're asking for a recipe one in some way can i assure him dogma that will prevent you from screwing up they are going by their awareness they are going by feel and they know exactly what the right moment is they can tell you because who knows the fire maybe slightly higher slightly less you may be in a more human environment or last minute may change a little that particular batch of stuff your cooking maybe, you know i mean it's like there are a lot of variables and recipes can cover them all.

43:24 Recipes are better than nothing. I mean, if you don't know how to cook sure it's kind of helpful You know they prevent you from screwing up and they get you get the job somewhat done But really get it at a high level you need to sort of ditch the recipe once you have developed enough talent for it Yeah that's a great example! I think it's also part of the reason why so many people get stuck in jobs that they don't care about or they have no passion for and they do it for decades sometimes. It's because of that same mechanism of having the instructions, you know? You come in, you clock-in, you clock out, you look at the schedule, you know when you got to be there, you don't have to think about it out of sight out of mind and for you to find your own path, for you to find a passion that you could make a living from...I mean no one is going to be able to give you that answer! You have to come up with that on your own

44:14 Absolutely it's a lot of work it's really difficult and ultimately the responsibilities on your shoulders you know when you have a shitty job that you have to do because you have to wait so you can always bitch about it then blame your boss and do this and that then, when is entirely up to you to figure out how to make it work for yourself it's kinda scary because there really no one else to blame me just like am i able to pull it off or not. It's there is that fear of failure is huge because now it's really just, he's kind of like you know there are great players in basketball who would never want the last shot. You know when the game is on the line they would gladly pass it to somebody else because there's just too much pressure and some people have the guts

45:03 To accept that pressure and I mean, I'm not even judging because it's like sometime. It is freaking scary. I get it I get out why? Why some people don't want that It's a hell of a lot of stress at the same time sometimes not taking it You end up being an even bigger price He may not be as dramatic has the failure of trying to go for it and fucking up But it is dramatic in the sense that he slowly chips away at who you are Yeah, and I have you know now that i've been able to do this show and become independent for almost a year now. This is all I've really done and there's a lot of people who in the podcasting world like smaller shows will have me on and they'll basically just ask me for the answer! And it's like... You just gotta keep doing it but you got to figure out exactly

45:52 what you want to do and I think if you know what you want to do, and your working on it, and its stressful. You are so much better off than the person right before that step who is just frustrated with no direction doesn't know what they wanna do. Is there any advice you would have for how to figure that out? Because if you don't know what you want to do in all you know is that your unhappy in your situation...I mean thats kind of a scary place No i need that step number one is figuring out what makes you happy if i had all the time in the world and what would i do to for myself if i don't have to worry about money. And then start looking at the patterns that emerge from your interest and uc ok, is there any car is there anyway to make a living doing any of these things that i seem to enjoy so much

46:41 And you know then you look at is anybody doing that is anybody does anybody make it out of the stuff and if so how do they do it, what is the next successful what is the make them work out of ten thousand people try to do the same thing. Why those five hundred are able to pull it off what is that day do different from the other nine thousand five hundred In some cases the answer is unsatisfying because it's just dumb luck in other cases there is a logic and then all you got to do with sort of take the tips from their model and apply.

47:18 Yeah, I think you're spot on. That is exactly what I've tried to do. How well I've executed is up for the people to judge but on the flip side it's funny because I know several people who have been fired or let go in the past year and I've listened to them talk about how much they hate their job, it's not fair, pointless, no enjoyment... quit, etc. And then when they do lose the job then it's oh my god what am I going to do? I needed that job! How am I going to pay my bills?! and i just want to say you know the universe gave you a gift man It gave you what you wanted and you weren't strong enough to do yourself. It made you pull the trigger and kicked you off a ledge and said fly instead of thinking okay how am I gonna get right this time They start applying for the same types jobs well I know we all have to have money coming in but try to think about

48:06 how now that your slate just got wiped clean you can correct that aspect of your life this time around. Absolutely and one of the things I mean to justify why people end up in that place, there's something true about it at a social level we really don't encourage people to think in a different fashion from day one there is this idea of people start working really early day keep working through you know we don't get started the basic thing like in the united states for example with harley got vacation you know two weeks a year right, twix is ridiculous because what happens is people usually get.

48:45 You know, there's this anticipation for vacation is like I can do anything. I want and by the time you are on vacation or like man the last 50 weeks of my year has been busy every single minute. I don't even know what it means to be me without having anything to do right? And you know in two weeks you don't really give people time to switch gear and figure it out and really sit down and get back in touch with who they are and what they wanna do aside for their job and they're back at the grind Can they do it for the rest of their life unless you really figure out what your about makes you happy all you do is you go from your job to the tv relax a little pass out you woke up in the next day start over

49:28 any early you're really leaving somebody else's life you know like it's a crime that in school they don't have your focus on that is your number one thing is like what the hell do you want to make your life better, what is the one thing live to be happy what do you need walking up with me no. There's none of that discussion anyway is almost good because there you know, part of the problem is who's facilitating a discussion if it's your third grade teacher was fascinating and discussion. And they are idiots but its even worse because the whole process in fake and weird

50:05 But at the same time there's nothing from a social level that encourage people to think to take responsibility for their lives. I don't even take responsibility in a bad way just even take responsibility as in, Just figuring out what they are about figuring out what brings them happiness it's such a simple concept and yet is something that hardly anybody encourage. Most parents don't really encourage it cause there about doing stuff that useful not ready to be what you wanna do for happiness school definitely don't encourage jobs don't encourage the structure itself of our life so little free time doesn't encourage that

50:49 So really people never have the chance to figure out what they are about, what how could their life be considerably happier than it currently is. And you just go through the motion. You're part of the machine and then your dad right? Part of it these individual, you know, people need to take responsibility for their own lives. But if nobody in your own surroundings has ever shown you how if you have never seen somebody do it for themselves that is really hard for somebody to just start from scratch and say you know it's kind of easy to sit on the sidelines and look at them and save. What a loser why did you never go for it what do you take responsibility like a lot of our behaviors learn, if you have nobody to learning from if you have nobody around use that model for that itself and its really hard

51:38 Absolutely, man. It is tough it is hard and getting those messages to people is key And I think that's a major bridge between the typical THC about some corruption or conspiracy and this one about Taoism and finding what makes you happy? It's about presenting valuable and underrepresented perspectives or pieces of information Some are better on a macro scale some are better on the micro scale but I think that's a big commonality And it's also another aspect of what the internet gives us in terms of finding a passion we see thousands of examples of people succeeding and their various four days and the masses should really get inspired by that. When i have a friend who is looking for job i just say you know the best jobs are the ones that weren't there before you made them up so good

52:23 I'll probably say that more than once to him and it will get really annoying but, i just know they're not hearing for very many other places and i think its important to hear something of that effect. Yeah yeah absolutely thats ummm no i like that a lot and i think he had some of the best stuff today there are more possibilities then in the past thanks to technology in that regard to make up your own thing That's kind of like being my mo to begin with is that given when i think about some other stuff done in schools will this courses that have told me not done stop there really makes no sense because it's.

53:00 there were no courses like that there where i didn't have any of the requirements and somehow occasionally i was able to push it through yeah it's also fight you know your also dealing with the fact that. It's not all we can our power is also what kind of response do we get them sometime you got a lot those doors as long in your face and you need to have both the perseverance to keep going, add the ability to adapt figure out how can What can make the next door open what can i do for it and so yeah it is a tough game but its the only game in town you know, no like the only other option is yet you take some shitty job you don't wanna do when they are stuck with it for the rest of your life. I get why people doing it because he's really difficult to depart from that model but at the same time

53:50 Why not you know what do you have to lose living there and i feel like he's not exactly going to pay dividends down the road. Exactly if your already unhappy was the worst that can happen in a continue to be unhappy exactly is like okay then is it go it all fell two pieces of those are so good shoot yourself gonna be dead soon anyway might as well, That was one of the first things I ever heard from Alan Watts that really kind of shook me up is he, yeah i'm butchering it but he says something to the effect of if you aren't enjoying your life. If the game's not worth the candle You owe it to yourself to kill yourself

54:25 Get on with the next story cuz this one ain't working for you. Yeah yeah i have nothing i mean i'm old for trying to find ways to make things work but i definitely will never judge anybody it's like i don't know what he means to be inside their skin. Last thing i wanna do is just somebody for charges that they have to deal with and what they have to do, You know my find them i do find the whole swiss side of things clearly not desirable outcome clear something that we should anybody but at the same time i don't really judge it either inside a you know you haven't tried to be damn try being damned and tell me about it.

55:06 And I guess, you know when bad things do happen. When you get into this rut of depression or you lose someone you care about the universe brings pain into your life How does the Taoist deal with it? What can we learn from Taoism to kind of ease that pain? Well... The thing that's I noticed and to help me some of the time and again someone time being the key cause there is no recipe that's gonna work every single moment you know that doesn't like about all the positive thinking sort of, opera approach to this kind of stuff is only take a seven steps to inner power and if you do these than any other it always gonna work well there is not such thing. There are times where your trying your best then you still get slammed in the face dumb

55:56 Some of the stuff that i find useful is one sense of humor always helps in the sense that taking things less than seriously, but the other is the exact opposite to staring at the beast in the face stating that the scene that scary you the most any some cases except the fact there's nothing you can do to change them and bad just horrendously harsh reality to deal with. me just the very fact that everybody's gonna die and we don't know what the hell happens even if anything happens afterwards. That's a hell of scary heavy existential thing to leave with all the time as human beings looking at it and in a way you know whatever works for you in terms of accepting it whether you need to watch three hundred twenty times in a row or whatever maybe that gives you sort of these,

56:48 Ok there's nothing i can do about those situations but find a way to have a good time for at least the next second and then the second after that in the second after that. I did the level of defiance interface hopeless scenario, You know sometime hopeless scenario are there regardless of what you do you can play your cards as well as you want to use steel deal with realities that are horrendously harsh. That's not all on our shoulders we don't have that kind of power but will we do have power on is how we react, i need some kids that defiant spirit is what prevents you from sinking into the deepest depression if you do sink into the deepest depression it helps bring you out at least some of the time

57:35 Yeah, the whole the name of the game is about being very delicate in your approaches and then be able to not be delicate when it's called for you know. I mean i hate this sound like a broken record but really that's how life is It's uh...it's a matter of constant tiny adjustments there's um Is one guy the creator of a kid or more he was she but they were people are complimenting him for his amazing balance in martial arts there saying you never lose your balance and is enough action losing it all the time but i recover so quickly that you never see me lose it. Human bodies constantly state of unbalance your when u walk you're always about to keep over, can if you keep going direction without moving other food will be proper it's about

58:23 I'm going a little to the right, now back and little to the left. My body's swinging this way, now I balance it the other way. That's what you need to do constantly in life. Right? It is matter of perspective. If you look at the Middle East from space it looks so beautiful and peaceful or if you look at a person sitting at their desk they seem so boring but zoom in with a microscope on billions of cells and bacteria fighting off infections and colds and it looks like amoeba Armageddon Yeah there's a game of thrones is happening inside of us constantly. Well said so Wow, man. This has been great! It's about that time I really enjoyed the show. Uh...I'm very lucky to have spent this time with you man. I know we talked so much about waking up in the conspiracy world but i hope this is a bit of a personal wake-up call for some people an opportunity to think about things differently if you've been coasting or really haven't taken the reins on your own life and all that good stuff but before I really let you go men do want to take a minute to tell other people by where they can keep up with you and give them more info about your books?

59:25 Sure i'm sorry brandon can tell his podcast drunken is having too much to drink and always the same tea or ice tea you can find it on my tunes you can find it on the web. Daniela bolelli dot com i don't know if you put episode notes cause again the spelling of my name with all those damn else complicated and people get lost. Perfect so that would be great cuz thats sort of the source for everything else i mean i have a twitter that i use regularly i have a public facebook page that i use, show me any of those um anyway which way you guys wanna contact me that's great and books are out i mean i have three books on amazon

1:00:08 I'm working on a fourth one right now. So, but yeah all of this stuff the my website is probably The way to then direct you to all of these other things if you are interested cool very awesome Daniele Berleli Italian stallion gentleman and scholar You're the man Thanks so much. Thank you take care You too. All right guys, there we have it! I hope you got a little something-something out of that definitely check out Daniele's Taos lecture series if you liked what you heard Of course We have the plus show to where we talked more about the warriors mindset and confronting laziness dealing with fear and loss and weakness meditation psychedelics struggle and character and my favorite part ideas for actually building a system that works

1:00:53 I think we can apply a lot of these concepts to the current tensions and inequalities around the country and the planet, and be better off for it. I know this Ferguson thing has gotten me so riled up right now and it really wasn't that way at first. My comments have kind of been all over the place on this thing, but if we're talking about balance and human decency then i feel the need to drastically over compensate to counteract some of the ignorance I've been hearing in the last few days And its about way more than just this particular interaction between Mike Brown and Officer Darren Wilson But even in this instance Whether he mouthed off with a cop or not He shouldn't be dead

1:01:31 He shouldn't be shot six times, twice in the head. People say well Mike Brown was a big guy well Darren Wilson is 6'4 and has been trained to disarm and detain people he has non-lethal tools at his disposal when dealing with an unarmed 18 year old And if you couldn't do that regardless of how aggressive or thuggish the kid might have been he shouldn't be a cop bottom line It's this utter lack of consequences for cops who shoot first and ask questions later that has people so outraged And to make it worse, this cop who was put on paid vacation had people donate over half a million dollars to him. Why? For what? How about forking it over the family of the kid you killed whether or not you think that was necessary how about a little humility and compassion

1:02:17 And that goes for all these people saying he was a thug or an animal. Really, how much do you know about this guy? You see 10 seconds of clip from convenience store and here he was shot by cop and it's like yep just another one of the ghetto thugs Jesus Christ on the cross bite your tongue How about this 12 year old kid who was shot the other day? Was he a thug or hundreds of people who have been victims of abuse of power by the real thugs. Just follow one of these Facebook groups that track the crimes of police, there's new one every day it is a real problem we need to stop ignoring it What about the girls in San Diego and all over the country who've been raped and sexually assaulted by aggressive police without any justice? Do they deserve it? Should they just have been a little bit uglier or none of this would have happened, maybe dress a little less provocatively. Are you just not gonna worry about it until its your wife or your daughter I mean are you honestly just that selfish

1:03:10 When you are stuck in a poor neighborhood or have an unjust situation, I hope you remember how you've responded to this situation. Because if you ever had to feel like there's nothing that you can do and your voice couldn't possibly be heard You might feel like torching up the gas station or blocking highway 2 because where is your fellow man? Where is the community?! They sure aren't feeling it. And that's the thing, how loud and aggressive and crazy do people need to get to extract a little compassion and brotherhood from the rest of us? It didn't happen at Occupy. And to hear people saying well I don't support blocking a highway i don't support the looting but not a word about the abuse of power by police not one word from these people

1:03:55 I hear, well if anything now the protesters have lost my support. Oh really? And a lot of good your support was doing them yesterday! What does your support mean?! The slant of your tweets... Have you ever fought for anything once ever!? It is okay if you haven't honestly not every fight is going to be your fight but for God's sake shut up when someone is out there making sure the corruption stops before it hits your front door There's people who will sit there and let a million other people they don't know get killed by cops and just say, well they probably had it coming. Because the people who protect in service couldn't possibly be abusing their power And why don't we put the serve back in Protect & Serve? I'd like to see police working at the soup kitchen twice a week That's what public servants should do! There are plenty of people that need help If you say you want to help people every cop says they want to help people

1:04:44 I see them driving right past people with flat tires, homeless hungry people begging for help. Why don't you go be an example? Go be a hero to someone! Show us why we should respect you prove me wrong cuz i'm pissed I am sick of the judgment, like this couldn't happen to you. I don't fight with the police and i'm still alive? Well that's great! Until maybe one day you and your wife or your son or daughter get in a huge fight and they peel out of the driveway down the street and they get pulled over by a cop who shot two people in the past without any problems and he thinks he is God among slaves

1:05:21 And this guy feels like your wife or daughter or son or brother just isn't giving him the respect he deserves so he wants to exercise that power a little more. You lose someone you love, and look around the world feeling more alone than ever before... That cop goes on a nice paid vacation with no consequences and nobody comes to your defense? A person who had it all might have a little sympathy for someone who never did And it makes me so damn angry. Everyone is fine with protesting as long as it's not the kind where I have to see or deal with and doesn't block my traffic, but what you're saying is that I'm all for protesting as long as nobody bothers me? How do you think that makes the people who don't feel safe in their community feel about you getting to work on time?" Then you have the gall to judge a protest and proclaim whether or not it has your support?! What does your support mean?? It doesn't mean anything! You're not active

1:06:14 But when you're an hour late, don't say man someone should do something about those protesters. Say man somebody better do something about police brutality because people are fed up and I don't blame them. I am too That is the least you could do. And the issue of responsibility is a tough one too, because are these not our communities funded with our money? Do we not have a responsibility to do something at some point? I think we do! It's the same issue if we're guilty by association for the hundreds of people around the world killed by our country's drones and weapons Is there ever a time where we need to do something about that? Where we consider people on the other side of the world worth standing up for

1:06:55 Just chill out with that judgment of how people should handle systematic unfairness. If you don't experience it, then be thankful and shut the hell up because there's a lot of crime corruption and conspiracy out there ruining the only lives we'll ever have for some people Instead of worrying about if it's your problem or responsibility How about you just rise up and do something great? We all have a real opportunity to be amazing and we're just kind of watching it go by. I see pictures of people protesting all over the world, sometimes over things as arbitrary as student loans but WE can't be bothered! Just think about how that looks to someone in Africa or India or Pakistan or Cuba or Mexico...or dozens of other places and think for a second how you must look to them just by living your life How insulting your day-to-day is to a good portion of the world's people in poverty

1:07:44 I'm right there too. I'm not saying you have to feel guilty about your life, but it would be nice if you took it upon yourself To at least be humble and respectful and by all means thankful for what you have That's the reason for the season Stop waving that American flag or just a minute post one less douchey comment stand up for one single injustice that you see that's outside of yourself Just just one single thing Because you have it awesome. And the elite bank on that fact, and the idea that the people who have resources for change will just enough to not care. Think about this Thanksgiving!

1:08:22 Watch how your family talks about Ferguson because you know they will. Everyone wants to gossip and hate and be cowards." Well, you don't have to go out on the street but just stand up and say, You know what? There's an increasing number of problems with cops I think maybe we should help people in the ghettos instead of just locking the car doors when we have to drive through these ignorant people in their place. You can't change them, but you can make them feel a little less comfortable spewing that garbage. Let them feel a little shame and embarrassment for those kind of comments because that will happen and that's how you could help." I don't know guys...I'm not perfect and we live in a tangled complex web of problems but this is definitely one so enjoy the feast what else can we do right? I mean that's what I'm gonna do

1:09:06 But a little respect for other people's problems is never bad thing. So, I love you guys! Thanks so much for listening... Your move! There was time when my world was filled with darkness Darkness, darkness Then i stopped dreaming Now im supposed to fill it up with something Something, something In your eyes I see the eyes of somebody I know before Long, long, long ago But I'm still trying to make my mind up

1:09:45 Am I free or am I tied up? And I change shapes just too hard in this place But I'm, still an animal Nobody knows it but me when I slip Yeah I slip, I'm still an animal There was a hole and I tried to fill it up with money Money money But it gets bigger till your horse is always a running, running, running In your eyes I see the eyes of somebody who could be strong Tell me if i'm wrong Now im pulling your disguise up

1:10:40 Are you free or are you tied up? And I've seen sheep, it's just too hard in this place But i'm still...i'm still an animal Nobody knows if they'll meet when I slip Yeah, I slip. I'm still an animal Da da dum da da da da dum da dum dum da da dum da da dum da da da da da da da da da da And I change shapes just too hard in this place But i'm still, i'm still an animal Nobody knows it but me when I slip Yeah I slip And I change shapes just too hard in this place But i'm Still, i'm still an animal Nobody knows it but me when I slip Yeah I slip I'm still An Animal

1:11:49 And I change shapes just to hide in this place But i'm, still an animal Nobody knows it's me when I slip