Trey Hudson | The Meadow Project: Cryptid Humanoid Stalkers, Portal Boxes, & Monkey Bears

00:00 These days, so many podcast hosts just riff through unprepared segments until they get to the next ad break for pills they know nothing about cheap razors and whatever else they can get a buck from. But The Hiresite Chats does it differently! We succeed or fail on the quality of content and your desire to hear more of it So you're about to hear another free first hour episode. It's here to prove the two-hour shows are worth subscribing for five shows a month for just $8

00:38 Members get a mobile friendly website, a decade of archives, a dedicated RSS feed for the best podcast apps and a lot deeper discussion that a single hour can allow for. Sponsor free with more for thee! Get a free seven day trial of THC Plus at TheHigherSideChats.com Enjoy In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation.

01:33 These are the Higher Side Chats. Doing what we do, people from sunny San Diego! I'm Greg Carlwood and while the arrogant authority class continues to project a just listen and shut up attitude towards us about everything as if they haven't already proven themselves completely incompetent The world's strangest and deepest mysteries not only remain unsolved, but have essentially been ignored. As it is better to not risk the people pondering the big questions or realizing that there exists a much more wondrous and bizarre reality just beyond the blinders of their hamster wheel lifestyles What are these crafts people see in the sky? Or these creatures visiting people at night

02:11 What's behind these remote hotspots of extreme high strangeness that defy all logic? And is it possible that we are not the apex predator on this island earth after all? Well, as often as people have asked these questions I don't know that we've gotten much closer to answers but the more information we can add to the stack the better. And today we're talking with author and paranormal investigator Trey Hudson to discuss his in-depth research into a much lesser known location in the American South that rivals the legendary Skinwalker Ranch, in terms of high strangeness events that cover the spread from phantom voices UFOs orb activity cryptids crop circle like formations time dilations and even portals. It's all detailed in his book The Meadow Project Explorations Into The South Skinwalker Ranch

02:57 Trey has been at it for a long time as he's the director of the Oxford Paranormal Society and its anomalous studies and observation group. He is an Eagle Scout, former Army Intelligence Officer with degrees in both psychology and anthropology. He has had a 30 plus year career as US government security specialist specializing in security of sensitive assets anti-terrorism, security of WMDs emergency management and other specialties He's used his tactical and technical knowledge to explore and scout this strange area known as the Meadow, with a competency most others could not match. So let's get into it! The Strange Stuff Recorder, Mystery Explorer and Fortean Activity Finder Trey Hudson welcome to the Higher Side. Well thanks for having me Greg I hope you're doing very well this evening

03:45 Yeah, I can't complain and thanks for taking the time man. I'm a bit of a junkie for these strange Fortian stories and hot spots but so often we end up talking about the same places and same stories obviously without answers still but my man Ryan Burns told me about your book and i definitely think the stories you have from a few trips in the field at this much more off-the-radar place in the south are well worth talking about I'm sure all your interviews start this way, but talk to us about how you came to learn about this place. Oh yeah! Kind of like what you alluded too... This place is a variable smorgasbord of high strangeness and weirdness But like a lot of things, I pull on my experience and training as an intelligence officer That's kind of how i look at things As an analyst, researcher or gatherer of data So most stories always starts from the beginning

04:40 And the way that this particular story started is I was researching folklore and tales of high strangeness. My background is primarily as a paranormal researcher, you know, a ghost guy so that was kind of the optics in the lens I was looking at this through initially. I had heard some rumors of a haunted road and a particularly isolated nature preserve somewhere in America's Southland And the locals would tell tales of this strange location and you would hear, you know them vocalize don't go down there at night or them haints will get ya. Right? So... Of course when I'm told not to go somewhere because the haints will get me guess where I'm going? Where the haints are! Yeah where the haints are yeah so we decided to research this mysterious haunted road and

05:31 As life throws curveballs so often, we found something we weren't quite expecting. Didn't find Doodly on the Haunted Road... it turned out to be a rather mundane experience But back in base camp in January of 2016 We found something much much stranger that started this strange journey into this place we call The Meadow Heck yeah, good setup. Very provocative and let's of course continue on what did you find that was so interesting? That had you coming back so many times and having so many experiences that you could fill a whole book Yeah in January 2016 like I said we decided to go and research this haunted road And research partner and myself had decided to go down there was about 15 miles from base camp

06:21 And while we didn't find anything when we came back to base camp with our good friend Bob, he told us an amazing story. He had a UFO experience there back at base camp. Let me back up it was February evening cold rainy drizzly just an icky southern winter night you know the kind that you just like to curl up inside and not go anywhere but we decided to go out there anyway. So Bob had been drinking copious amounts of coffee to stay warm and awake while we were out exploring the so-called haunted road, and you know like so many things in life biology gets in the way if coffee goes in it eventually has to go out somewhere right simple physics and some hydraulics there so while he was taking care of some biological business

07:13 He noticed a bolt of lightning come down out of the overcast and dreary sky. Strangely enough, this lightning had no thunder accompanying it. And something I've noticed over the years is people tend to invest a lot of emotional capital in their normalcy bias so he placed this bolt into his normality box and said even though it had no thunder obviously it was lightening. It was a beam of light that came from the sky ergo Occam's razor must be lighting But while he was finishing up his business, he noticed that the moon came out. A large luminous orb in the sky and thought to himself very good evening is clearing off maybe rain will move out and we'll have a decent weekend And then the moon started moving sideways from right to left Now I don't know about California but here in America's Southland The Moon doesn't usually do that As it moved to the side It stopped

08:10 And a very small black pinprick appeared in the middle. And the black dot started growing larger and larger in size, kind of like the iris of a camera opening up until he was left with a circle of light almost like the necklace-of-diamonds effect during an eclipse. Then it completely winked out. He had also noticed some strange lights on top of a ridge adjacent to our base camp—small twinkling fireflylike lights like lightning bugs but of course in wintertime there are no lightning bugs So when he recounted this amazing story to us, we forgot all about the haunted road and we decided to start focusing our attention on this general area. Now the interesting thing is that Meadow is not the base camp but the going's on at the base camp with this UAP sighting is what got us kind of tuned in and focused on this area." And so people should know you're not really giving out the location but you are willing to tell people some things to help them understand the area right?

09:12 No, absolutely. And I'll go ahead and lay out a mea culpa here...I don't keep the location secret just to be mean or difficult or miserly is unfortunately what has happened when you have these unique locales of high strangeness when the exact location gets out is it is absolutely swarmed by people and unfortunately a lot of the people that swarm these locations aren't serious researchers So, they taint and contaminate any serious research going on. And it makes it very difficult for those of us that are trying to empirically record and experientially take part in these phenomena. So for that reason I don't give out the location about all I'll do is say its south of the Mason-Dixon line and east of Arizona so that kind of narrows down a bit for anybody wondering

10:06 But I am very open with the experiences, quite frankly because this isn't my story. You know these aren't my experiences. I don't own these things they belong to the world and you know so far people have really enjoyed hearing about the experiences and perhaps some folks have had a chance to sit back and think and maybe think about some of their own experiences Hmm, fair enough. Fair enough but you know people listening are gonna want to have something to go on so they can assess the area when they learn about all this weirdness or at least be able to paint a mental picture Can you give us a bit more about the topography? Or the geography maybe even the acreage of this area that we're calling a hotspot The south is a pretty broad region with a lot of different landscapes Are you willing to elaborate it all on some of those details

10:56 Right. In my book, in the first few chapters I take high strangeness from a macro to a micro it turns out that this area is in a general region that's just chocked full of weirdness and there's an area that I call the bi-state strip which is a area that goes between two states here in the Southland And it has UFOs and UAPs ghosts cryptids folklore Native American folklore, and just all kinds of really strange stuff. The nature preserve where this location is located likewise has many many strange accounts you can go to MUFON and some of the other UFO organizations and find numerous reports of UFOs You can go to BFRO and find numerous reports are crypted a lot of folkloric ghost stories and things like that but what I want people to imagine is a meadow or field

11:55 You know, an opening probably about eight acres in size. Very pristine very beautiful during the day very serene just absolutely a gorgeous place in the Appalachians so you know you have the rolling mountains you have this beautiful mountain meadow it's somewhat temperate in the winter comparatively to the north So it is really just a nice place to research A little warm in the summertime albeit You know, just imagine a meadow and field next to a large stream or creek surrounded by ridges and mountains. Okay okay And is there perhaps a military base nearby? Or any curious sites that could relate to this kind of activity? Yeah excellent question There is a military base within probably 30 miles

12:49 It is not the type of military base that has any aircraft or troop movements or anything like that. You know, it's just not that kind of base so you know That's a fair question that there would be any kind of military involvement and quite frankly this kind of base and the kind of activities they do There isn't something that you would see outside of the confines of installation Fair enough. Yes, as a 30 plus year military man I appreciate that you acknowledge that it might not be impossible that the military could be involved in something strange and mysterious And i guess the last question about the location is You have said this is a missing 411 hotspot That David Politis has highlighted before right? It's within about 50 miles of one his hotspots yes Wow What makes it very interesting

13:37 is, and I will go into it a bit later or right now if you wish. Is that I had a situation an experience where I feel like I perhaps could have ended up as a chapter in one of David Polaiti's books so... Well you might as well hit us with that! We got so many stories to relay but I mean that sounds like a good one to start with. Well let's get to it. Let me look at my notes here It was in January 2020 It was an outing where we did not really have a whole lot of people show up. You know, unfortunately our team members with the anomalous studies and observation groups are all volunteers and we have those stinky things that are called jobs you know in lives they unfortunately get in the way so we had a bit of a scheduling conflict and only had just a handful to show up that weekend but nevertheless my research partner Kristen and myself decided we would go out to The Meadow during the day

14:33 and scout it out and take baseline readings of other areas that we had noticed events of high strangeness previously. So, we were taking radiation readings with the Geiger counter EMF readings radiofrequency readings barometric pressure things like that so we could have a good solid baseline you know whenever we have something else go on So we completed our survey of the area and taking our baseline readings, and decided that we would cross a large creek to the north of the meadow. And explore what was on the other side you know maybe there was something over there that would be worthy of our interest or exploration and The only way to find out would be across the creek and check it out

15:16 So, I took off my boots tied them into a knot hung them around my necks and waited across the creek which in January it was quite cold so i was eager to get across the creek as quick as possible and get my boots and socks back on. And much to my chagrin and amazement I stepped into another large field another you know large opening And I thought to myself, how cool is this? We have another large field or meadow just north of the one that we've been looking at on the other side of this creek. So this is a unique opportunity to explore this area and I remember calling out to Kristen and we had become separated by vegetation things like that but I'd found another meadow

16:04 And she's like, what are you talking about? I said no. I'm standing in this field it's really cool! You need to come over here and check it out. She goes don't move I'll be right there to you. She got over to me and was standing there and just couldn't understand what I was so excited about. And she says Trey what is wrong with you?! What are you talking about?? Look at this!! It's a new area we need to explore!!! She goes...you know your right where you started We're in the original meadow. Your not on the other side. Your not north of the creek And as weird as this sounds, and it's very hard to articulate but as she was explaining this to me and I can't really put it into words but the nature of the environment that I was observing changed. It just took on a different point you know of reference in as I'm trying to cognitively process what just happened

17:06 everything started to come back into what I realized. And this was an area that I'd been to probably 50, 60 times before. Mm-hmm. I'm very comfortable in the woods. I'm an Eagle Scout. You know, I've hunted big game in North America and Africa, hiked all over North America, you know spent many, many years traipsing around the woods so I'm very comfortable with that but I was so disoriented that when my team members called me back from base camp because she was concerned—she's a registered nurse They had asked me what was going on and I said, just stop. Don't talk to me for about 10 minutes. Let me get my wits about you. And after about ten minutes, I was finally able to kind of start communicating and we had also noticed a radiation spike during that period of time of about 0.33 micro sieverts per hour which is above the baseline of point zero two micro Sievert's per hour so we're seeing little tiny spikes in radiation

18:07 And, you know I wonder to this day if we hadn't had our protocols in place which nobody goes out by themselves because we've had a couple of near misses in our opinion. Everybody carries a radio and you always carry GPS map and compass If I hadn't have all those protocols and had a research team member with me could I ended up like one David Palaide's subjects in his books? Yeah it sounds like you could have you know a lot of people i think the divide is those who think that these experiences are some type of vortex or portal or bermuda triangle on land situation and then others think its some type of predator like a bigfoot or some kind of cryptid or something even multi-dimensional or spiritual

18:56 And I don't see those things as even mutually exclusive. There could be some type of predator or creature that has learned how to utilize the disorientation that comes with vortexes or portal places and just kind of hangs out near them. Because those situations, there's definitely stories where there is no way a kid could have gotten as far as they did miles and miles away. There are stories where they've already searched the area and then the person appears. There are accounts where young children even say they were hanging out with a weird bear for a night or two. So I feel like all that stuff is in the mix

19:36 But very crazy. Oh, definitely and you know you mentioned portals the interesting thing is the place where I became disoriented was only about 40 meters away from our portal that we were able to capture on film so it's like and then that particular location where I became disoriented becomes very strange because a whole lot of weird stuff has happened within 50 yards or 50 meters of that area Yes, and I definitely want to talk about the portal box cube thing because it is probably the most provocative but outside of the David Politis possible victim story. Let's try to go chronologically for people sure So, you know Bob has his UFO experience the moon moves sideways You know This is a place you want to come back and investigate And you took a couple of trips? I think in 2016 one in January 1 in July Is that right?

20:33 We took 2016, one in January which was Bob's UFO and then July 2016. That was our first real foray into high strangeness even though Bob's UFO was very strange. In July 2016 after the experience in January we thought this base camp area or this general location was really worthy of our exploration And back in July 2016, we were scouting out some areas and found a meadow or field pretty close to Bob's base camp where he had this UAP sighting. We decided we were going to focus and concentrate our research there for several reasons It is large open field Anything that moves across it will leave tracks so it is like big natural track trap Its also open enough where we can put teams out of the middle with infrared and night vision

21:28 and they can detect anything moving, and there's a large ridge to the south which will become important later that people can move across an look down into the meadow or drive something down off of the ridge into the open where people can see it and photograph it. So we decided we were going to focus on this big field which later became known as The Meadow We decided what we were going to do is take three teams, put them out in the meadow with night vision and thermal. And we were going to have Bob, UFO Bob walk across the top of the ridge and see if he could flush anything down into the meadow or if you could see anything from that higher vantage point so we all got set up You know in the field and told Bob that He could go ahead and start moving towards the ridge and it comes over the radio and he says Guys something's going on

22:21 I've reached," and he named a landmark that we were all familiar with, and he said, "'I don't remember how I got here.'" He said that he has no recollection of walking to this landmark. Well, we have several paramedics on the team, and they, of course became concerned thinking maybe Bob had had an epileptic episode or stroke or you know, had fallen and concussed himself So they started doing a quick assessment over the radio. You know, Bob can you feel your extremities? Do you feel dizzy? Recite Mary Had A Little Lamb and he passed all of these assessments with flying colors He just did not remember how we got there Now of course We've all been focused on our task and were absent-minded And drove to work and don't remember how we got there things like that And so we once again took this experience and shoved it rather neatly into our normalcy box

23:12 Certainly nothing was out of the ordinary with something as simple as walking across a trail. So Bob traversed the top of the ridge and nothing really extraordinary happened, dropped down into the west side of the meadow and started working his way east As soon as he dropped down into the meadow He was observed by one of our field teams Two men on this team were Darrell and Tim Tim is a former US Army Ranger Has a degree in physics and philosophy from The Georgia Institute Of Technology And works in the high tech sector down-to-earth, science minded guy with a background in special operations. Darryl likewise has a degree from Georgia Tech as a master's degree in management and is a career paramedic very solid down to earth guy used to dealing with facts and they're watching Bob through their thermal as he starts to walk across the meadow towards our location so they notice a man shaped heat signature moving across the meadow and that heat signature

24:16 all of a sudden turns into a sphere, a circle, a ball. It moves several hundred yards in a matter of seconds and we estimated when we measured it out this sphere moved at about 23 to 26 miles per hour the fastest human being cannot go that speed over this terrain it's too rugged so as they're watching this an utter amazement they see this sphere this ball turn back into a man sized and shaped heat signature. And they quickly get on the radio and they say, Bob, Bob are you okay? And they see this heat signature bring a radio up to its head and say yes I'm fine why what's going on stay there we're coming to you so they get to bob and they say are you okay are you okay he's like yeah i'm fine why because well we just saw you turn into a ball of energy and fly across the field because no i just walked over here normally nothing happened out of the ordinary

25:15 we couldn't explain it. And to this day, we argue whose reality was shifted? Who was the observer and did the observer have their reality shifted or did they observed how their realities shifted? Nevertheless both parties had very different recollections of that evening so we're thinking a team member turning into an orb It's probably about as weird as it is going to get. Well, it gets stranger! Our base camp operator once again reported seeing strange lights up on top of this ridge that didn't correspond with any of our team members or any of our headlamps These lights were green and about 20 feet in the air One thing you see in these areas of high strangeness are reports of orbs or lights in the forest So we've got that going

26:04 The next morning Bob showed us his, oh let me back up at 0200 hours early the next morning one of our team members saw a white humanid shaped figure watching our camp from about 30 yards away leaning around a tree kind of peeking at us which is interesting because there's folklore of a type of hominid or creature you know fitting that general description in that area so once again the folklore is bearing out to be the truth, or at least in our experience. So the next morning Bob wakes up he shows us his GPS track. His GPS track shows him making several straight line movements some of those movements was north of the creek that I talked about a little bit earlier He never crossed the creek. He never was wet. He was never the places that his GPS trackline showed him The tracklines were in a straight line this train is too rugged to travel on a straight line

27:07 So the only way that we could think if somebody could travel in a straight line would be if you were in the air. Now, you got to remember earlier he had had missing time and he also was witnessed by two individuals turning into a sphere of energy so unfortunately We told Bob, save that Download it when you get back home send it to us We're gonna do some analysis on those track lines and by the time he got home That was completely erased off his GPS. So that was July 2016 Yes, quite strange. Of course the orb morph story is the weirdest part you got this white humanoid shaped figure kind of stalking you guys but even in between those two events You do have this section in the book to quote it you say

27:55 Not long after the orb morph experience, Bob and Daryl heard a low chattering or deep mumbling from the ridge top to the south. This extraordinary vocalization was also heard by Tim, Kristen and me it can best be described as what Ron Moorhead calls Samurai Chatter from his famous Sierra Sounds recordings this type of vocalization is well known among Bigfoot researchers and is believed to have some structure of language so you know That's kind of two creatures that could be in the area. And this is all starting to jive with that idea of some creature or entity that knows to watch these vortex places and possibly pick people off if they don't find groups of people working together, right? And after this event, especially with Bob and The Missing Time and everything we developed our protocols a little bit further and said nobody goes out alone it just you know it's not safe

28:54 And, you know talking about the samurai chatter or the murmuring that is recurrent. I mean as recently as March when we were out, we heard some of the same mumbling and murmuring on the ridgeline and from the creek. We've had guest researchers come out with us some pretty big names in the field and they also have these experiences. So it's starting to run the gambit of high strangeness. It's not a UFO hotspot, it's not a Bigfoot hotspot, is not an orb hotspot...it is kind of all this stuff together which reminds me of certain place out in the Uinta Valley and Utah so you know we're just really gassed about this really excited because we have apparently from what I look like from these two events in January and June have found one these hotspots

29:47 which yields amazing, you know our research and our exploration later really yields some amazing results. And so you mentioned that you operate by the motto follow the folklore well what can you tell us about the history of stories and folklore in this area beyond just this similarity of a white humanoid shaped figure that is it seems to have stories about it there's probably other things in there too right? Oh yes, absolutely. The Native American folklore is very rich in that area. There's folklore of something that the Native American... and I'm not even going to try to pronounce the Native American names because I'll really butcher them but they have something called the Stonecoat Giants which were described as large creatures that were impervious to their arrows hence the name stone coat there was also a entity called the Spearfinger Witch

30:44 And she would lure children and people out of their camps, kill them and eat their livers. So you start looking at the folklore where else in Native American folklore have we heard about a sorcerer or sorceress that lures people and kills them and devours their souls? That's not too terribly unlike the skinwalker folklore. You're starting to see a similarity in folklore from the First Nations and Native Americans So, you know that's really neat and you go and start looking at the European folklore of this area. This area like a lot of the Appalachians was predominantly settled by Scots-Irish so they bring their folklore over to it. They bring their folklore with the fairies and goblins in The Willow or The Wisp and Jack O'Lanterns things like that which dovetails very nicely in some of the things we've seen

31:37 Also, you have a strange history of tragedy in this area and this nature preserve. Bodies being found people being murdered People going missing things like that unfortunately a week ago Sunday There was a horrible murder in this area So it's an area that's just seeped in folklore It's seeped in legend And it's also covered with tragedy is one of those areas that people are always a bit unnerved about Whenever they venture into the woods on those dark cold nights. In the book you do include several stories that you dug up from the area and I got to hear that i think are pretty interesting but in nineteen fifty six a young farmhand saw

32:30 8 foot tall creature covered in long brownish hair while making a trip out to the hog pens and later he found 4-toed footprints near the pig enclosure. And then there's another story of a housewife who lived near the Bi-State Strip. She was digging in her garden in the 1960s and discovered something out of place, she found a lead tablet containing Sumerian text! A suitable explanation was never given regarding how it came to be in a household garden plot." Those two stuck out to me as pretty interesting you know? You're going back

33:07 80 years, you're not going to have a ton of details about some of this stuff. You might just find it in a Fordian collection somewhere but it jives with the area being quite strange Oh yeah It's a highly highly unusual area and the whole region is weird And over the years we've expanded our research a little bit out from this specific meadow The other little micro location and other locations adjacent to it and within a few miles of it are equally as strange Yeah, so you have the initial situation in January 2016. You come out again in July 2016 and you got the orb morph story and this weird white humanoid creature well then you take a big trip back out in 2017 And this really is the stuff where I said okay? I gotta get this guy on talk to us about the events that are covered in chapter 6 The Portal

34:04 Chapter 6 and that event has to be one of the strangest weekends of my entire life. It was so bizarre, that people that were there had their entire worldview changed you know, they way they look at the universe was changed With some success as we had in July 2016 We decided we were going to put three teams out once again equipped with thermal and night vision And this time we were going to have a three-person team run across the top of the ridge lest one of us get, you know abducted or disappear. You know like We thought might have almost happened with Bob so we traveled in a little bit larger group across the top of the ridge When the team reached the east end of the ridge...we were still up on the ridge and I was on the team

34:55 that was moving across the bridge, we noticed some figures down in the meadow on our FLIR. We had seen some deer, so you know, we knew what kind of heat signatures the deer put off. The deer left and we noticed a figure down in the field and the figure was about six feet tall 18 to 24 inches wide man-sized I'm not going to necessarily say man shaped but man sized And we were surprised as we're filming this This figure is tall, then it's short. Then it's tall and then it's short and then its tall And then it morphs into two distinct separate figures So we quickly radioed our teams Was anybody in that area? No nobody was in the area We use a very rigid command-and-control structure whenever were out We always put people at known locations They don't move from those locations unless they get permission

35:55 So, we try to eliminate any contamination of the area by teams wandering around on their own autonomously. These heat signatures did not match with any known team members so it's like all right we have got something really weird going on you know let's see where this evening takes us. We dropped down into the meadow and I think i sent you the video of the figures multiplying and all that mm-hmm so we moved over to the east end of the meadow and we started working our way west Well, our team that was in the east end of the meadow radioed and said they were having some very strange things pop up on their FLIR. And so we started moving in that direction and they're relaying to us over the radio that there was a box or cube forming. It was described being about 30 feet by 20 feet by 20 feet. Really big! A big box or cube but it was only showing up on thermal and colder than its surroundings

36:58 And so by the time they started recording it, it had started dissipating. Unfortunately you don't run the recording feature on your thermals all the time because you'll eat up the memory and run the battery down So by the time they were able to start recording it pretty much dissipated But once we got there They were explaining this to us and we decided we were going to try to vector a team into The area where this anomaly was or had been and see what they would experience So we sent several team members to this area and were recording them on FLIR. And when they get to the area where this anomaly was, they disappear. They are completely invisible to our thermals. They're putting off no heat at all. As recently as a few months ago in February of this year, we had tried to recreate that. We had actually gone out to the exact location except during the day which makes it a little bit harder to mask your heat signature

38:02 But it makes it easier to mask your heat signature because your body heat and the ambient temperature is the same. So we set up a situation where would be easier hide behind brush or brambles, stuff like that and we could not recreate completely disappearing from FLIR We tried everything we could in our people were always visible with our thermals so where did these people go? We don't know...we couldn't see them And when they got back out, they recounted what it was like when they went into this area. They said that when they went into it, they didn't encounter brambles or stickers or briars or anything like that It was a kind of smooth transition into the area and it was cold which matches what we were seeing on the FLIR That the temperature was lower in this cube-shaped anomaly and they said it was very dark and quiet almost like they were inside of a velvet bag Very dark and still

39:00 So when they turned around and started coming back out of it, this is when they started running into those roots and branches and things like that that they had not encountered when they went in. Although reality was shifted just a little bit—just enough to where we couldn't see them on FLIR, just enough to where their environment was a little bit off but returned to normal when they came back out—and once again, we were able to capture them disappearing on film which is you know, in my opinion pretty doggone unique. I haven't seen many of those out there so we were really excited not only to experience this but to capture it on video

39:43 Yeah the video is compelling i mainly was relying on. The voices of the people watching to kind of assess it and see if they seem genuine and i'd say for sure they do, i just don't have enough experience with this kind of equipment i dont know the environment is it possible there were behind something or are you i just dont know the equipment well enough to make a real judgment but it is Certainly interesting. And you have multiple people who are out there who saw this and it is captured on kind of a night vision heat signature type of footage now, that's fair. You know, we went out there and were like, OK, we're going to try to recreate it. We're going to see if we can mimic, you know, going behind thick vegetation to see if somehow we can completely mask our heat signatures

40:39 And we weren't able to do it. So you start tying all this together, you know? We believe something truly remarkable and unique happened on that February evening in 2017. Yeah it seems that way! You say they went into the area did they go literally where The Cube was or did they just get close to it and started experiencing strangeness? They went into the area where The Cube was Right on. And they saw it kind of materialize, and then they also saw it kind of dematerialize? Yeah correct. It was just about completely dissipated before we were able to get a team over there so you know you have to wonder what if the team had stepped into it while it was fully visible on the FLIR could they have had a much different outcome and perhaps a much more tragic one right right that's what I was thinking myself

41:38 How close were these figures that you saw to the box portal thing? They were probably about 300 yards. But what gets interesting is while they were videotaping our team going into the remnant of the cube, probably about 30-40 yards away to our west is we picked up two more figures, heat signatures appeared to be watching us from a group of trees which once again didn't correspond with our team members So, you know were these the strange figures we saw earlier and now they've moved up and they're watching us? You know perhaps. But that was very odd too that something seemed to be observing us while we were interacting with a cube go back to 2016 appeared something was observing us while we were in our campsite. Mm-hmm yeah it would have been interesting to know if

42:35 that area where Bob I think morphed into the orb thing. You know, if if that kind of equipment was on or someone knew to look for a cube then maybe he stumbled into what that cube thing is. It's very possible. I mean you know it makes sense or he got enough close enough to whatever was going on that so here are the energy somehow affected you know the area where he was in and it kind of opens up a whole other train of thought that there could be a bit of danger to this kind of research. You know, maybe it's not all fun and games and running around in the woods that perhaps you do take a certain degree of risk when you venture out into these areas of high strangeness." Yeah definitely definitely! And so these figures that you saw initially

43:25 Well, there was one about six foot tall man-sized maybe wider broader than a typical man would be it Ended up looking like it got taller shorter taller shorter and morphed into Two figures. Is there any conventional explanation with that equipment? That would be sufficient could have been two figures standing in in front of each other and then move apart. I mean, with that equipment it's somewhat limited you can see things that the naked eye can't see but also not as much detail or...I don't know how the depth perception works with that equipment? Yeah, that's a good question It's, is anything possible what i will say is it appeared there was a man-sized heat signature something man sized was putting off heat

44:16 6 foot tall, 18 to 24 inches wide. It appeared based on our FLIR footage that it changes shape and size and then turns into two heat signatures and then dissipates so you know I start looking at things out in the woods that does that kind of thing can't really come up with a whole lot of examples especially something man-sized when none of our teams had any corresponding activity in that location So like, you know all of this stuff I put it out there for people to ponder on their own You know and make their own decisions. And so in the book you have really good Transcripts I guess of conversations that happen. I imagine during a debriefing of each individual night obviously you're very methodical with all this using military techniques and you have David P's description of this thing

45:17 He says, without being able to judge height or size from the time I kind of saw it was about 20 by 20. But what I was looking at had about the same heat signature as y'alls so i guess he says that had a really bright white signature on my thermal That's strange because that sounds hot did it change from hot to cold? I'm trying to remember Because last time I talked to David, he said it was colder and I'd have to go back and look at. I might have misspoke that after going back in looking the transcript fair well this was the part I really was gonna get you where he says it was a perfect square what I was looking at was dimensionally perfect with perfectly straight lines It was perfect He obviously reiterates that several times but then he says

46:06 Off to the side, it looked like a cross or an X on the left-handed side. And I wasn't really clear what that means... Was he saying there was an x on the side of the box? Or like literally off in the grass? Off to the side. Literally off to the side. So imagine a cruciform you know, like a Christian cross and i'm not saying it was a Christian, I'm just saying it was shaped like that. Off to the side And what that means is anybody's guess. Right, so kind of like a crop circle on the ground? Well no it was upright you know as a vertical structure Oh okay yeah oh interesting interesting like made out of wood Made out of something that had a heat signature That wasn't there when we went over to it and that disappeared as well Yes Huh

47:02 Wow, I love this story. I'm a big fan of these specifically portal type things that it seem based on the conversations with the team to be natural or technological if they had to guess what do you think they would say? Well, I mean that's a fair question You know There's two ways look at that if being cube-shaped, you know with right angles one would say It was made by an intelligence But then again there are several You know, examples in nature where you have uniform structure—you know hexagon or whatever like a bee's honeycomb. That's natural and not made by technology so that's an excellent question what makes you really think about it is in other areas of high strangeness there are abundant reports of cubes or boxes at Skinwalker Ranch there are some

48:04 descriptions of flying boxes. They call them flying refrigerators If you ever study the mysterious ranch in Colorado that Katie Grabowski-Page writes about, once again there are strange cubes or boxes People talk about seeing cube shaped UAPs In Brazil many years ago there was some cases of something they called chupachupas which were described as flying boxes or cubes that would emit rays or beams that would injure people. So there's something about cubes and boxes that are linked to incidences of high strangeness now what that link is I have yet to figure out but there does seem to be one

48:54 Yes, and you mentioned Jacques Vallée's book Confrontations where he goes into the Brazil flying boxes. And that is such a wild story man! We got all kinds of things out there we don't understand. Oh yeah it is truly one of those things once you start peeling the onions, you know the onion layers back, it gets stranger every layer you pull back Yes, and so in the book you do have some kind of crude maps that you kinda made because you're trying to mask the location but you're also trying to give people visual references. And... You have on the map two boxes and is that the box your referencing from a later trip? That you call well I thought i wrote it down as David & Terry's Box

49:46 Yeah, David's and Terry's box is much later. That is actually in April of 2018 when David and Terry saw their box. And that was smaller – that was about 9 foot by 9 foot by 9 foot. Gotcha! So… Is that the box you were putting on the map? Or were there two portal-like boxes seen that initial night? That initial night, they saw two boxes in two locations or one box move from one location to another. That's what I was getting at is did it seem like some kind of teleportation technology because these two boxes they didn't appear at the same time? Right correct

50:23 Very interesting, very interesting. And so on this same trip maybe the same night or within the same 24 hour period you encountered who you call The Businesswoman can tell us about that? Oh The Businesswoman of the Forest yes that's where it really gets kind of strange we're sitting around talking about this box and what did we want to do? Did we want to research further, did we want to go back?" And I made the decision that we would go back and do a video debrief. An after-action review while it was still fresh. We were packing up all of our equipment to go back to camp and do that. And I received a radio call from Glenn, our base camp operator, who said there is somebody in the camp who wanted to meet me! Okay... you know, I'll be there when I can." He said no they're really really insistent

51:19 So as soon as we were able to pack up, I made my way back over the camp and much to my chagrin there was a businesswoman waiting for me who had driven up and she was wearing loafers slacks a blouse in a blazer very very much out of place. And it was so unusual and weird that many of my team members had a very strong reaction that something is not right about this person Yeah, well they say when you know you know and let's talk a little bit more about the dialogues with this woman because it gets pretty weird in that regard as well. She was really insistent that we drop what we were doing and follow her down a deserted very rugged county road

52:14 to an area that she claimed had a structure or building of some sort and this structure had something that she called monkey bears which I really don't know what a monkey bear is but she wanted us to come look for these monkey bears now where it gets weird is, you know what are the odds coming back your base camp about 10 p.m at night in the middle of forest in the winter time find a businesswoman there wanting you go off and chase monkey bears? It made no sense at all And even stranger is, you know she kept trying to... it's almost as though she was trying to detract us. To direct us somewhere away from what we were trying to do which was to get a good baseline and video review of what we did and she starts interacting with me She said, where did you go to university? I went to the University West Georgia and she says well i did too!

53:21 She goes, what did you study there? I said well studied psychology. And she goes well i did too and I thought okay she's just purposely parroting back What I'm saying so I'm gonna trick her and I said okay who were some of your favorite professors? And she actually gave me the names of people I knew So it was not making any sense this Did not jive with the way You know you would think this conversation in this experience would go So by this time, everybody's starting to get a little wigged out by this woman because she just wouldn't go. And what tops it off is she stops talking to us and she steps just a little bit away from us and she squats down and urinates in front of us." Hello? Yeah so you know it's like we were speechless. And so she finally got the message that we weren't going to interact with her and she left

54:31 And so, you know upon my return home I started thinking you know where do we have folkloric record and eyewitness accounts of people inappropriately dressed or inappropriately dressed for the occasion coming up to individuals who've experienced high strangeness trying to dissuade them from what they were doing or dissuade them from telling their story who don't seem to understand nonverbal cueing. They don't seem to understand human niceties and the polite interaction of people, i.e., you don't urinate in front of people unless you know them really well... Mm-hmm. ...and they seem off. And if you go back into literature there's a lot of accounts of that. John Keel talks about them. They're called the Men In Black. Right. But where this takes a really weird turn and some things came to light after I published the book is we have this woman's name

55:34 and the name does correspond, doing a little data mining we found a real person that appeared to be the same person in a profession that requires a license. You know licenses by the state so this person appears to be a professional A respected professional acting in a way that quite frankly was so odd it could put their license in jeopardy So later on I was contacted by a psychotherapist in Turkey who happened to contact me because he knew that I attended the University of West Georgia and wanted to talk to me about a place called the Carrollton Vortex, you know there in Carrollton, Georgia. And he said he had heard my interview and he said hey You know it goes on a totally different subject Do you have the name of that strange woman? That showed up in your camp? And I said yes her name is blank blank He says oh my goodness. I think I know her I said so she's like a real person because yeah absolutely Yeah She's like a real person really did go

56:41 You know, the University of West Georgia has a degree in psychology etc. And he said would you mind if I talk to her? And I said absolutely not! Actually I would love to interview her but I'm not interested in disclosing her name or outing her or anything like that...I need to know what her experience was. Well as it turns out she wasn't really too interested in talking to me and I can understand and respect that. But my friend did ask her what was her recollection of the evening And he said her recollection was this, that she had noticed it earlier in the day and had come back that night after working. And oftentimes she drives around in the forest to unwind and she wanted to tell us about her experience with the monkey bears when she was younger. My friend asked if anything unusual happened during the evening? She said well, it seemed like they didn't really want to talk to me and they were withholding something

57:46 or keeping something secret they didn't want me to know, which once again was accurate. We just had that amazing experience with the cube or box and we were trying to do our debrief and my friend said okay so nothing else weird happened she said no they didn't seem interested in me and I got in my car and left She doesn't remember the urination and that part of it she has no recollection Hmm. Which is interesting because if you go back and read some of the UFO literature, people that have had encounters with items and incidences of high strangeness sometimes have an altered memory as though something is controlling their perception of what's actually going on Now, is that what happened here? I really don't know but it certainly makes you wonder why her perception of the situation and event was drastically different than ours

58:46 Right right yeah very strange so my initial thought was you know men in black situation or some kind of doppelganger i would have thought that by asking you where you went to school and professors you knew that this. Doppelganger thing was kind of reading your mind and then extracting answers and then giving them back to you, But I mean now the story is a little different. It's like this woman literally exists She literally did go to the school that you went to and she must have actually known these professors That's what it appears So it makes you wonder though, you know all of your stories of you know Men and women in black interacting with people that have had you know amazing events of high strangeness Maybe they are real people and being influenced or controlled by something You know outside of their understanding and knowledge

59:40 So that puts a kind of different twist on the whole men in black phenomena. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm so we covered most of the major stuff from the book when it comes to your experiences out there in The Meadow are there any future plans to investigate more or anything you can tell us about next steps if there are any? No absolutely I mean It is an ongoing evolving investigation and research Hopefully, I will get back out there in September or October. I've got some business things that have to deal with." So we're continuing to investigate and research. We're expanding the area of research geographically out a bit. We have two other fields or openings that we are starting to look at—little meadows—and we are actually having people touch now by unseen forces

1:00:32 So, that's…it's evolving. The phenomena is evolving and morphing into different things. We have some experiments that we are going to try to do to see if we can empirically capture some data. So you know it's a never-ending journey. It's not a 5 kilometer race its'a lifetime journey. And we've only just begun Well, do you plan to put the footage out? The stuff that you showed me. I'm sure you've got other stuff that i haven't seen Do you plan to put that together in some form? Uh...I will- I will put it like this. I am hopeful due to some efforts on my part and the part of others

1:01:14 that we will be able to release some of that footage and other information in a format that will reach a much, much larger audience. And contractually that's about all I can say about that. Okay okay well will the location be revealed at some point? Maybe mixed in with this contractual situation? Not if I can help it and that sounds kind of mean I know but as long as I can keep the location secret And the people that I'm working with on possibly getting this information out there, they sign non-disclosure statements just like everybody else.

1:01:51 Once a location gets out there that pretty much kills the research. So if we can keep it as quiet and on the low down as possible for as long as possible That's what I'm gonna try to do fair enough fair enough Well, can I tell you based on one of the stories and a curious phrasing that you have in the history portion of the area? I think I know where it is Okay Can I take a guess and have you tell me from hot or cold just the state? Oh I will reserve the right to tell you if you're hot or cold, but you can go ahead and give it a go. Okay okay i think it's in Alabama In the proximity of the Talladega National Forest which is a huge huge area there's no way anyone could ever find the meadow but that's my guess Not really too familiar with the Talladega National Forest But I will tell you that it is east of Arizona And south of the Mason-Dixon

1:02:42 All right, all right. So it's possible! It's possible man well it has really been a pleasure is there anything else to tell people about getting the book or getting in contact if that's something you want or any other works you got out there that they might be interested in? Yeah sure I mean the book is available hard copy soft copy ebook audiobook you know all the various formats People can find me on Facebook at treyhudson-author, or you can usually find me passed out behind the alley in the local liquor store. No I'm kidding! Find me on Facebook and everybody...I would like for them to send out some positive waves as Sergeant Oddball said in Kelly's Heroes because we are releasing the book in French in October, we hope so it will be international and will be reaching the French speaking markets We're hoping that goes well too

1:03:39 Good deal, good deal. Well I certainly appreciate your time and your work it's not easy it's a lot of hours out there in remote areas to even do this kind of investigation so I'm glad there are people out there with the technical knowledge and passion to do so And we got another hot spot on the map it seems! I love it well thanks again take care Thank you Greg have a good one And boom goes the dynamite! Another look at an off-the-radar hotspot for high strangeness. You know I like to dip into such things from time to time Plus, the recent episodes with Tony Merkel and Nick Orton The sort of back-to-back paranormal grab bag story stuffed episodes I did maybe a month or so ago were really popular So I just wanted to get another thing like that on the books

1:04:33 The stories here were pretty interesting. Of course, we don't have a lot to go on but Trey's word and the word of the team who signed affidavits for everything that they experienced and saw. Trey did show me some footage as mentioned and yes it does match up with what is described but its just hard to tell to an untrained eye exactly what I'm looking at. I can't get a good sense of depth when i'm looking at heat signatures, they're not the most detailed images ever but it was night so what can you do? And they did corroborate this story quite a bit...I mean they were out there

1:05:10 When I was reading the book and listening to Trey's previous interviews, and getting ready for this... The day before I did decide to ask him if i could see some footage. And he mentioned a non-disclosure agreement. And you guys know that I don't really roll that way. I'll give my word to keep things private but..I don't like to sign stuff like that Which is why the handful of TV or studio projects that I've been invited to be a part of always break down. Because studios make you sign all sorts of stuff and basically give them so much control that i don't really see how anybody does it but, I understand Trey's position he doesn't really know me I gave my word to keep it private and he did show me some stuff

1:05:56 And the NDA thing doesn't bother me at all to each their own. I only bring it up because maybe if i had signed, he might have had more of the real smoking gun stuff that he'd want to be even more protective of? I hope that's true! I want there to be more evidence even if I don't personally get to see it It is super rare to have discovered this sort of place so I also understand wanting to keep it private Again no worries No shade Do what you gotta do To each their own but for me doing a two hour interview and the way i like to operate it was almost a deal breaker. Because we just like to bring guests here to be totally open honest about their work and talk freely because as a listener of this kind of stuff growing up you know the reason i took this path is cuz there's a lot of people with great interesting stories out there but I don't like that he never have,

1:06:55 So it was something I considered. Do i want to do this one when we can't talk about the location? But, I thought it was compelling enough to let the secret location bit slide. Granted, I think its a little overkill not being willing to say the longitude of the place or even state that's in because if you're trying to keep an 8-10 acre space pristine and avoid a bum rush of armchair investigators That's certainly understandable, but it's not like they're going to search every square inch of a whole state to try and find it. But I gotta respect Trey's position! It's not my secret so I don't get to make those decisions. I appreciate the work he has put into this and the book does have a lot great detail in it And I never mean to grill our guests but when we are talking about Portal Boxes on an audio only show... ...I have to ask a lot of questions in the interest of giving you guys a better mental picture

1:07:52 I want to know exactly where the people were standing and how close they got, and when did it dematerialize? And was it hotter or colder on the radar because...I just wanna know these things. Even in my position interviewing people week after week for 12 years The folks that I get to talk to who have actually been in proximity of something like a portal box I can count on one hand so I've got questions you know Fun stuff though, maybe a missing 411 overlap? Maybe some beings using portal tech and stalking people they think might get cut off from their group. Maybe some weird woman in black overlapped too! Also strange that a guy from Turkey called about a different location and then also knew who this woman was... That was a head-scratcher Weird synchronicity is said to follow these sorts of investigations so who's to say

1:08:47 But I made sure to get most of the big stuff out in the first hour, but in the second hour we talked more about The Boy that The Businesswoman In The Woods was with. Radiation and EMF anomalies in the meadow. Trey's thoughts on Plasma's involvement in some of this high strangeness. The Ghost Box sessions they did Some more details about little aspects being messed with from somewhere else in the woods Examples of how the paranormal can follow you home. Details on the third portal box, and we got into Skinwalker Ranch and the transfer of ownership Bigelow's Center for Consciousness Studies now hiring And we compared The Meadow to Skinwalker Ranch and we talked about this other weird Knox Magby situation

1:09:38 I asked a little bit about Trey's previous paranormal investigations, his thoughts on the UFO UAP disclosures and we also talked a bit about the anthropological approach to the paranormal since Trey did study anthropology a bit. So as much as you like THC episodes they're always better when you hear them in full sign up for PLUS treat yourself if you haven't already and big thanks to those who do ya make my world go round Also, in Hireside news I have been forgetting to plug this because it's so rare that i get out of the house and have an event to plug. And its a few months away but I am doing the next Magic on The Mountain event with the Gramerica guys at a cabin near Mount Shasta in February So if you want to hang out with Darren & Graham & Brandon Powell & Joe Ruppe & Owen Huntz & myself

1:10:33 for like four days doing presentations, panels hikes and hangouts spaces are still available. Go to contact at the cabin dot com and click on magic on the mountain an you will see the options that are still available yes it might seem a little pricey but this is covering your meals and your room and board so I don't think you really need to spend any other money for this 4 night 5 day event In 12 years of THC, I've never done any event like this but Darren and Graham have been on a roll with these events. I've been wanting to go back to Mount Shasta ever since I went there a few years ago with the wife. I also stopped into their last event in Arizona with a buddy of mine and now i'm in whole hog! Hope to see you there contact at TheCabin.com February 9 through the 13th And we also have a couple events on the THC calendar at highersidemeetups.com

1:11:31 A good handful of them in the first half of September, have passed. Hope everyone had a good time! Also I have had a few Plus Members say that they were going to make an event but the Meetup site doesn't recognize their credentials... Well it's not going to. It is a totally different website. I did it like this because I didn't want to limit the calendar to just Plus Members So you do have to make an account there to make an event, but it's pretty easy. Pretty fast and it's just a good practice so that every event has a person in charge or a specific contact. It helps keep spam and bots out of there too but let's take a look seems that for the rest of September we just got two We have September 17th A Flathead Lake Meetup at Volunteer Park in Lakeside Montana

1:12:24 And then we also have on September 24th a Philadelphia Clark Park meetup in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. So we got two more events in September and hopefully if you've ever thought that you'd like to meet more like-minded people You hop on there and make an event in your area It's free and it's easy But that is pretty much the show after some heavy ones about current events and the food industry I thought it was nice just get weird with it Give Trey a shout out if you had a good time. Check out his book if you want to dig deeper into the whole meadow project, but I guess I'm getting outta here! I've done my part Your move Portalbox Operators Business Women of the Woods and Monkey Bears of The Meadow Your fucking move When you see weird lights outside your door Something sits on your chest when you sleep

1:13:22 It might be a pattern you've been through before. Oh, you might have those screen memories. Darling wait till we get some proof and we'll make them see And baby I tried the camera right? I'm not crazy How people can't get free from mystique

1:14:01 It's getting just a bit out of hand We really just want to get back on with our days Don't care about the hybriding plan So honey now, don't walk into the skinny arms No they came from the sky from out of the stars Place something on my beating heart Baby this damn life is too bizarre I can tell when they're gone cause my memories fade But we know that it's not just a dream Cause they never put me back exactly the same way And the pain is as real as the scream Honey, you're

1:15:16 might be the whole goal, a sense of theme. The higher side chats has covered all that we're breaking free. People can't get free from Mrs. Grace it's getting just a bit out of hand We really just want to get back on with our days Don't care about the hybrid in plan But now, don't walk into their skinny arms No they came from the sky from out of the stars Play something I'm a beating heart

1:16:26 Baby this damn life is too bizarre So honey now Don't walk into the skinny, oh No they came from the sky From out of the stars Play something on my beating heart I'm shouting out

1:17:20 Baby, this damn life is too bizarre Honey I think we're on some kind of far Baby this damn life is too bizarre And that is another show complete! Remember, as much as you enjoyed this which is just the free first hour I hope you'll become a Plus Member to hear the full two-hour interviews. You also can engage with other Plus Members in the comments and the forums and you'll find your answer to one of the most common questions I get which is where can I find those cover songs that you use at the end of the show? Well they are free downloads for Plus Members too

1:18:08 And without Plus Members, I can't hire the occasional musician to bring these odd cover song ideas to fruition. Plus members are how I'm able to do what I do without ads and without the big machine being on my back! We can fit so much more into a two-hour interview and I'd do my best to make it worth your time and money." The conversation only gets deeper, weirder, and more controversial in that private hour. How could it not be the way things are going? But the best way to sign up is at TheHigherSideChats.com, where new first-time subscribers always get a free 7 day trial because I'm just that confident! There's no PayPal on the website but if you need to use PayPal then sign up through Patreon and you get all of the same episodes

1:18:51 Our website is a credit or debit system, but you can also scope out the other options like a few various cryptos. Cash or check mailed to the P.O box and I'll even barter with most people if you have your own business and produce something nice that my wife or kid or taste buds might like But the architects of consensus reality have made it clear that these themes and topics aren't really welcome on the main stage. And so this is how we secure a little counterculture corner for ourselves, and I hope you'll join PLUS because that's the only way it works! Besides, you can cancel any time right on your profile page. The most common concern I hear is people just being unsure if THC Plus will work with their podcast app and the answer is probably yes! But if not we have several high-level app recommendations for whatever phone you use and the website is made for mobile too

1:19:43 We're trained to tip a waitress for bringing us a sandwich, but that tip doesn't give you access to a second sandwich. Really I'm not asking for any more than that and think I offer better service. Come get your second serving of tasty conspiracy goodness in exchange for that small token of your appreciation! Beyond that let it also be known we have grown and survived as long as we have by word-of-mouth I don't care so much about social media likes or follows, but tell the right people about THC. And not just listeners but the high level figures who are better suited to sit down with me than most other hosts. And if you can help me with any of these things, I can work to bring you better shows which is just a win-win for both us! Informative, entertaining and action packed

1:20:28 It also never hurts to thank a guest you liked if you have the time either. We want them to know people are listening so they're willing to come back down the road too! Thank YOU for spending some time with me and cheers to a better tomorrow!