Saturday, 31 May 2025

THC+TV Announcement & Update

A decade of independent conspiracy media enters a new era as Greg Carlwood trades home recording for a professional Tampa studio and a custom video platform.

THC Plus TVTampa StudioClip GeniePodcast MetricsIndependent MediaGreg Carlwood
By The Higherside Chats Free Show | 27m listen | 12 chapters
THC+TV Announcement & Update cover

About this episode

The Higherside Chats is pivoting to a professional video production model and launching the THC Plus TV subscription tier to combat a 30% decline in Apple Podcast downloads. Host Greg Carlwood is moving operations to a sound-treated studio in Tampa, Florida, to professionalize the show's presentation and attract high-profile guests. This transition marks a departure from the traditional audio-only format as the show returns to YouTube to leverage its discoverability algorithms while maintaining a strictly ad-free, independent media stance.

The new $12 monthly tier covers the significant bandwidth costs of HD video streaming and includes access to Clip Genie, a searchable database of transcripts spanning 15 years of archives. Users can now search for specific entities like Alan Dulles or the Royal Tetons to jump directly to relevant segments. While longtime editor Justin departs the production, a new in-house audio engineer will manage the Tampa facility to eliminate environmental noise. The existing $8 audio-only tier remains at its six-year price point, ensuring that the transition to a Netflix-style streaming infrastructure does not force a price hike on legacy members.

Reflecting on his 40th birthday, Greg Carlwood emphasizes the need to evolve beyond the static web presence of radio-era figures like Jeff Rense and Alan Watt. The June beta period will allow all current Plus members to test the new video player and its picture-in-picture capabilities before the official July launch. Despite a personal distaste for corporate middlemen, the return to YouTube aims to re-engage the audience and help the show break even on its massive infrastructure investment.


CHAPTER 01 / 12 Discussion

Apple Podcast Metrics, YouTube Discoverability, and Declining Listener Numbers

The Higherside Chats has experienced a decline in free listener numbers over the last 24 months, attributed to several industry shifts. Apple Podcasts changed its download tallying methods, resulting in 20-30% drops for many creators, while the post-COVID media consumption peak has leveled off. Additionally, the decision to stop uploading to YouTube removed a primary discoverability tool, preventing the show from replenishing listeners who naturally rotate out of the audience.

apple podcasts· youtube· covid-19· listener metrics· discoverability· plus members

00:00 Alright guys, here we go gearing up for a new month and a new milestone for THC. I'm sure many of you have seen the cryptic posts or vague references and i just want to walk you through my thought process and everything from the beginning. I like to be clear and methodical and decisive anyway but when you're talking to tens of thousands of people that's kind of important if you don't want to cause mass confusion and chaos Of course, the first question would be why change anything at all? People don't really like changes when they get used to something and I've tried to stay pretty consistent intentionally for that reason. And so that is where the story starts kids with the acknowledgement that my numbers have been a little bit down oh say it ain't so but it is mostly the free listeners by a huge margin and some plus

00:50 I don't even really review the free feed numbers very often, but it's a noticeable trend that has been happening for 24 months and i think the show itself hasn't changed much. But in the search for answers as to why there are a few factors worth acknowledging part of it is just that there was a peak in the COVID years for all sorts of media being consumed more often fine Apple also made a big change in tallying up their numbers and that's podcast industry wide. You can hear a lot of people bitching about that I wasn't really bothered by it because it only really affects your bottom line if you're leveraging your numbers for ad money, and I've always felt that way that a lot of the stat obsession is really just for that reason. I care about one thing how many plus members do I have? How much money do I make a month? How does my family eat? How well are we doing

01:44 But that change at Apple was a thing and some people saw 20-30% drops. Okay, well I also think my YouTube problem which caused me to stop uploading the show there made it really tough for new people to ever come across THC. I know people bounce off of all sorts of shows after awhile and I take no offense! We like to switch up our rotations, I know But YouTube as a discoverability tool helps replenish those people who fall off. And after about two years, I'm now seeing the effects of not having YouTube as part of my overall thing and I don't know if those three factors make up 20% of the reason 50% of the reason 80% of it whatever again not really a big deal because they're mainly outside of my control

CHAPTER 02 / 12 Discussion

Independent Media Integrity, Rejection of Podcast Advertisements

Despite the high revenue potential of podcast advertisements, the decision has been made to remain truly independent and ad-free. Concerns exist regarding the quality of sponsored products and the potential for advertisers to exert power over media content. Maintaining listener trust and avoiding the promotion of inferior products is prioritized over the financial gains seen by other conspiracy-themed shows that utilize traditional sponsorship models.

independent media· sponsorships· advertisements· integrity· revenue models

02:34 But that gets the wheels turning on what I could do better, and as I've said a few conversations with colleagues who do ads made me consider folding on that. Where i've been very stubborn! I never wanted to do ads but I considered it because its A LOT of revenue and doesn't seem to be hurting anyone else's show So many of my colleagues stuff their shows with ads and the biggest shows in podcasting are stuffed with ads and nobody seems to stop listening. And plenty a conspiracy shows have adds too so it's not as incompatible with the content, as I might've thought 10 years ago when i didn't have all these insights of a big field of podcasting but we are not going that route

03:19 I like saying that i'm truly independent and so many of these sponsorships and endorsements are for products that end up being far inferior to their ads, and I don't want some unrelated company cashing in on the trust that I have cultivated here. And I don't like the idea that all media needs to be ad supported it gives advertisers too much power if they're the only model that works So, somewhat out of spite or dare I say integrity. I want to stay independent and think that I can but as I was mulling all this over I thought well the increased revenue from ads would enable me to do something like move to video in a nice studio setting because if i observe the market video is a big thing again I know it's because of ad revenue primarily but there are other harder-to-quantify benefits

CHAPTER 03 / 12 Discussion

Transition to Video Production, Studio Benefits, and Technical Challenges

A transition to video production is underway to improve show presentation and attract high-profile guests who prefer professional visual formats. Benefits include the ability to share clips, utilize nonverbal communication, and display visual aids like charts and graphs. Technical hurdles involve finding a subscription-compatible video player that functions behind a paywall without the buffering or lock-screen issues common on independent platforms, citing Red Bar Radio as a rare successful example of this infrastructure.

video podcasting· studio setting· nonverbal communication· visual references· red bar radio

04:10 Let's talk them through. Maybe I could get some of those guests that have turned me down before just because the presentation of the show is better? Maybe THC clips and highlights become easier to share, and that helps with natural promotion! A lot of communication is nonverbal so maybe it makes for a better experience for everyone when you can see those nods and facial reactions from the other person Plus, we could have visual references – charts, graphs, slides and all that if a guest has them. So I can acknowledge those potential benefits now but avoided video because A.) I didn't want to lose our deep editing process and B.) I didn't know how I could deliver a best-in-class video experience on my own site behind the plus paywall

04:56 Again with a the editing thing when i observe the current climate of podcasting people don't care about and all that stuff they just wanna natural conversation so maybe i over emphasized how important that was. Maybe these other potential benefits i just laid out out way the benefit of that edit but then what's the video thing, I have a show where i can't just rely on YouTube, really even for the free show but definitely not to deliver plus because im always getting flagged and striked. And I want the plus experience to be the best! It's just weird if people are paying and then they end up getting worse more frustrating product or you signup for the full 2 hours after gettin used to video on youtube now it is audio only? I know that would annoy some people

05:47 So I set out to see if i could solve that problem and you can imagine there are a ton of factors. The player has to be as good as a YouTube player, it can't go blank when the lock screen on your phone comes up, It can't be constantly buffering, it can't freeze and restart all these things And its pretty hard to find a person who independently controls a subscription platform that covers 10 hours of video a month with no ads and isn't a pain in the ass And hey, I've been in the podcasting game for a long time. I pay attention to all the things going on out there and the only one who pulls that off with no ads and actual video is Red Bar Radio! Say what you will about content but kudos to him for his infrastructure...and set design Anyway we did find a solve for this but it's expensive and i have to even pay for streaming bandwidth in way that never had to do with audio

CHAPTER 04 / 12 Discussion

THC Plus TV, New Subscription Tier, and Bandwidth Costs

A new subscription tier called THC Plus TV will launch at $12 per month to cover the high costs of HD video streaming and bandwidth. The existing $8 audio-only tier will remain unchanged, ensuring current members are not forced into a price increase. This new tier functions as a custom streaming platform similar to Netflix or Hulu, designed to prevent "power users" from creating a financial deficit through high data consumption.

thc plus tv· subscription tiers· bandwidth costs· hd video· streaming site

06:41 I kind of fought the two THC developers a bit on this until the math was laid out for me that there's just no way to flip a switch and deliver full HD video, or full 2 hour episodes to current Plus members for $8.00 a month One of my developers explained how a power user who watches and rewatches these episodes may be on a loop during work They could end up actually costing me more than $8 a month and I could be underwater on that subscription, which is just crazy. But OK? And I can feel some people grumbling already so let me just cut to the chase get to the punchline and say nothing is changing with THC Plus as it is this will all be extra As always, I offer five two hour audio episodes a month for eight dollars but now we're going have a second tier of THC Plus TV for 12 bucks a month

07:33 And yes, the $12 tier will include everything that the eight dollar tier has plus video. It's not like you just have to choose one or the other. This helps me make sure that I have a little bit of a buffer for those power users and current Plus members won't just flood in new system where I pay for bandwidth it's more of an opt-in thing So let me go over how I think this is a win for everyone involved. Of course, sometimes execution and intention don't line up perfectly but I want you to know what I'm expecting to happen and what I am working towards. For everyone, I think we will get better sound quality! I'm now in a sound-treated room with an in house audio engineer

CHAPTER 05 / 12 Discussion

New Tampa Studio, In-House Audio Engineering, and Guest Presentation

Production has moved to a sound-treated studio in Tampa, Florida, featuring an in-house audio engineer to eliminate environmental noise like storms and planes. While remote interviews will continue, the professional studio setting is expected to improve guest recruitment by offering a high-quality visual presentation. Free listeners will now have access to the first hour of episodes in video format on YouTube to aid show promotion.

tampa· florida· audio engineer· sound treatment· remote interviews· guest recruitment

08:18 No more planes flying overhead. If you remember, since I've moved to Florida there's a lot of storms that can get really loud and come in over these episodes that frustrates me so on my side of the conversation in studio it should be way better and with the In-House Audio Engineer little tweaks and adjustments that make the guests sound better too those can get made while I focus on just the content which helps everyone have a better experience And I should also add that i'm doing remote guests still now i have the option to do in studio guests, i probably will do and studio gas but just to get it rolling we're still doing it remotely. I don't wanna limit myself just two people who want to be physically in tampa but we know that people come to the interview with all sorts of audio situations and different equipment but now i have a guy in the booth is going to make it as good as it can be right out of the gate

09:15 That does relate to another broad benefit which i think is that the guests i struggle to get are now gonna see the gas presented in a high quality way rather than having no visual at all to go on when i make my requests. There's a lot of shows now and i have always tried you present my guess the best i can do the intro and preparation, listeners know that but it's hard to communicate in email target show example Now we have the presentation that i think is also gonna contribute to convincing more potential guests that THC is a good place to be interviewed so those are huge universal benefits potentially better guests definitely not worse and better sound quality.

10:00 So right out of the gate, we're doing pretty well. Now on top of that free listeners now get the first hour experience in video great that's obvious plus members don't have a general price increase for something they may not even want so they can stick with audio at the same price and still get those other benefits of better audio quality and potentially less guests saying no to me making for a better show overall And those who want to just have a higher tier of support or prefer video, or just want the whole enchilada experience can now have it and know that I've made it top-of-the line. Or at least my guys have. It's hard to communicate exactly what will happen when I have to delegate and trust some other people

CHAPTER 06 / 12 Discussion

Custom Video Player Features, App Store Restrictions, and Pricing History

The new video platform features a responsive player with picture-in-picture capabilities, casting for Apple and Android, and live captions. A dedicated mobile app will not be released due to heavy policing and restrictions within major App Stores. The host notes that the base price of $8 has not been raised in six years, even after moving to a no-income-tax state to manage personal expenses instead of increasing costs for listeners.

video player· picture in picture· live captions· app store· pricing table

10:41 But they've done great work for me before, and I've played around with a test video and it's super responsive. You can click all over the timeline and it instantly starts playing you can do picture in picture on your phone. You can use Apple and Android casting to get up on your TV easily! The video has live captions built right in and chapters that have to be myself but its very impressive. I essentially had to make streaming site like Netflix or Hulu but make just for my own show And we can't really have an app because the App Stores are so heavily policed that that's not gonna work. So this is our roundabout way and luckily I've had a lot of Plus Member support for a long time, and i can afford to do with this with the tools that are out there now Another thing...I don't really want to over qualify how resistant I was to making another tier. I was pretty resistant

11:35 I like what we have going now, $8 i think is a fair price. But i raised that price maybe 6 years ago? I haven't gotten it raised in six years! I actually moved my family across the country to a cheaper no income tax state because i would rather cut my own expenses than charge more so please factor in what you've learned about me how you think you might know me over these years and don't beat me up too much about having to do this Because like I said, whatever type of subscriber you are free or plus you still get the same thing and it should be better with better quality guests.

CHAPTER 07 / 12 Discussion

Departure of Longtime Editor Justin, Professional Recommendation

Justin, the longtime editor for The Higherside Chats, is transitioning out of his role as the show moves to in-house studio editing. The host expresses gratitude for Justin's years of service and offers to provide his contact information to other podcasters seeking a proven editor. This change marks a shift from a family-and-friend-based editing process to a professional studio team.

justin· video editor· podcast production· career transition· higherside chats

12:14 You know what that being said about the new studio kinda coming with in-house editing and house editors i should at least thank our guide justin who is edited thc for many years. I don't even know how many years my wife did it briefly for a time, i did it before that and besides my wife and i justins the only one who's ever really added to hc news done a great job I love to be loyal to people i work with so it was really hard to say if I was going to do something different. But, If there are any podcasters out there looking for an editor and you like how THC has sounded over the last 5 or so years then I'm happy to pass along his info! So thanks Justin for many great year of service! When it comes to our changes & upgrades that's not all folks we got more...

CHAPTER 08 / 12 Discussion

Clip Genie Archive, Full Transcript Search, and Research Tools

The $12 subscription tier will include access to Clip Genie, a searchable archive containing full transcripts of every episode from the past 15 years. This tool allows users to search for specific terms, such as "Alan Dulles" or "Royal Tetons," and jump directly to the corresponding audio and text. Due to the ongoing costs of maintaining the database and protecting paywalled content, this feature is bundled with the video tier rather than the standard audio tier.

clip genie· transcripts· alan dulles· royal tetons· research tools

13:04 There's also another component to the $12 tier, it won't just be video and this is a little more complicated. Hard to explain without actually playing around with it but it is what's called a Clip Genie instance And Clip Genie is a system that provides a full transcript archive of all THC episodes back to the beginning, and a word search where you can put in any word and it will present you with the text and audio at anytime that word or phrase or name has ever been mentioned in a THC episode. So you could be doing your own research on someone like Alan Dulles, or perhaps you hear the Royal Tetons mentioned and wonder if that's ever been mentioned in the past. We have a 15-year archive! I forget things... Well now you can put those terms in and find out. I love that it presents you with the shows that contain the word and a play button that starts exactly on that sentence and the transcript right below it

14:03 So it is more of a research tool or way to find things better than ever before. And those really are the two things people ask me about more than anything, how can I find the show? I'm looking for or get transcripts to your episodes as well as why won't you please just go to video Well now we have both and only because both have ongoing costs to stay updated and current incomplete there on this higher tier membership I promise you that if Clip Genie was something I could just pay for once or video wasn't something I had to pay for bandwidth for, I would do it out of pocket just to make Plus better. I've done that with other things but staying current with the ongoing releases costs a decent amount of money every month especially for the Clip Genie thing so it is what it is and I don't know that Clip Genie will be ready on June 1st. I'm not 100% sure of that

14:58 It's really not something that was built to be behind a paywall it's called clip genie because you're supposed to be able to make shareable clips from it. And people will be able to do that but its taken some development to adjust it to our needs, think about the logic there is really no reason have an archive of just the free first hour if something your looking for was arbitrarily mentioned on the other side of the conversation thats paywalled And if the whole two hour show is giving you the audio also, well then I got to protect it because that's the way things are structured around here. So this just makes sense. I don't know how often it'll get used but it'll be very valuable. The few rare instances you might want it and it's just a way to sweeten the deal. Now to launch this thing let me say that both the video and the Clip Genie archive will be included with the regular plus membership

CHAPTER 09 / 12 Discussion

June Beta Launch, Teleprompter Difficulties, and Email Notification Solutions

The month of June will serve as a test period where all Plus members can access video and Clip Genie features before the official $12 tier launch in July. Initial recordings faced minor hurdles, including difficulties reading from a teleprompter and grammatical errors during the intro. Because video does not have a standard RSS feed, an email-based notification system is being developed to provide secure, one-click access to new episodes without requiring manual logins every time.

beta launch· teleprompter· rss feed· email notifications· login protection

15:54 And I'm considering the launch to be the first five episodes, the month of June and then the actual $12 tier will kick off in July. Partly to say thank you for the 15 years of support partly to test what a bigger load really does look like on this new system and partly because it's probably going to take me five shows to get it dialed incorrectly It's not something you can practice for really? And I was nervous in this new place with people watching me in the room I tried to read my intro off the teleprompter, but nobody told me that the areas that I put in bold or italics would all go away. So people think I'm kind of good at reading these intros and those are the little things I do to help me read it smoothly and they were just not there on the teleprompter! And then it was scrolling way too fast and you can see it in my face...I look panicked like someone's coming at me with a knife or something

16:48 So I'm a little embarrassed and do not look comfortable or relaxed. I also fucked up majorly in the first sentence and said, most oldest And it's not even really grammatically correct phrase and its not what was on the screen...I don't know whats wrong with me! There is not as much editing now we just have to go with it and ill get better But you gotta give me 5 shows and Ill improve with each one then in July will really launch the $12 tier of THC Plus TV for real Now another logistical thing we don't really have an RSS feed for video. One of my developers is trying to come up with an email solution where the video is still protected I think it's gonna work where you just click the box on the My Account page that says yes please send me an email when a new show comes out and it will come with a link that has your login already programmed into it so what will be just click and watch but it won't

17:43 able to be posted anywhere. That's the protection that a subscription service needs So that is the goal because I don't want people to have to log in every time there's a new episode and i want people to get some kind of notification, I know for a podcast you get notified when you just see a new show pop up in your podcasting app with all the other shows or maybe you follow me on twitter or something and see it there video is a little different I don't want everyone to have to login to watch a show cause thats kinda annoying so We're going to make that as easy as possible. We already save logins with cookies, we can probably put some documentation out there with how to just drag that down and make an app out of it that updates when a new show comes out but I think the email solution is best let's just email people a nice easy link click watch boom! But again that's a goal and will have to probably

CHAPTER 10 / 12 Discussion

Visual References Policy, YouTube Return, and Word of Mouth Request

To maintain a quality experience for the 90% audio-only audience, visual references will be handled efficiently without wasting time on-air. The show is returning to YouTube to leverage the platform's reach, despite a distaste for corporate middlemen. Listeners are encouraged to share the new video content and help re-engage former fans to help the show break even on the significant setup costs of the new studio.

visual references· youtube· audience feedback· word of mouth· marketing

18:37 Let me have the month of June to get it all dialed in right. I'm also not going to forget that 90% of the audience is audio only, and i'm not gonna try to talk too much about visuals that you can't see but it will happen sometimes there's been a ton episodes where I've said man I wish we had a way to show this to people and now we do The way we're gonna start doing it is when a guest has visual references they give me those in the folder and i give them to the guys in the studio too, put into the audio so we're not looking at things live and wasting time that way which so many shows do it annoys me. So rest easy regarding that

19:13 I'm trying to be really open and honest here so you know help me out let me know what you think about things when they come out i'm gonna be very opened a feedback in criticism i think i've thought this through in a way that everyone wins as i explained. If something isn't working or whatever i'll be reading the comments even if i don't respond all them, But we have YouTube back, and as much as I hate the corporate middlemen this is how people learn about a new show. And i have to put one foot in that game because I've only hurt myself by opting out and I got a family I must make sure I provide for so I will make a few little compromises the big compromise is ads and sponsors and I don't want to make it So I will do everything else I can first

19:58 And when the first hour comes out on YouTube, maybe help me share it. If you know people who used to listen to THC and stopped try to bring them back for me I'm doing everything i can on my end. I'm nervous about the change. I know I've spent a lot of money And this, I guess just creates a good catalyst for me to ask for some extra word of mouth from you guys to increase the chances that this works well and i can break even on my setup costs sooner rather than later. I expect the vast majority of people to just say...

CHAPTER 11 / 12 Discussion

Patreon Integration, John Hammond Comparison, and Work-Life Balance

Video content will be uploaded to Patreon for subscribers on that platform, though the Clip Genie tool will remain exclusive to the main site. Comparing the investment to John Hammond from Jurassic Park, the host emphasizes that no expense was spared to keep the system independent. Moving production to an external office has also improved the host's home life, allowing his wife and children to remain at home during recording sessions.

patreon· john hammond· jurassic park· work from home· office space

20:37 But this is just a new added option that will improve the presentation of THC overall and not cause anyone to lose anything. If you subscribe on Patreon then that's nice and easy because I think i can just upload videos to Patreon without any added hassle The Clip Genie thing is not going to work for Patreon though, I know it's getting complex but I'm gonna lay out all the benefits and who gets what where in a nice clear pricing table very soon here as well But hey, you guys can consider me the John Ammon of conspiracy podcasting because I spared no expense to keep the system independent and best in class in presentation and delivery. And it's all just money that I've earned from plus memberships now. I'm hoping we can keep the ones we got and grow it even more. I'm super lucky. I'm actually excited about quote unquote going to work again. I love this studio and the guys who worked there are talented

21:31 They're excited to have content to edit that they think is engaging, maybe a little different from other things that are recorded there. But it's still a refinement process. They give me a show I give them the feedback they make an adjustment on the next one and we go on but i think i've proven over the years that i have good taste and i know what quality and convenience is because i'm a subscriber to Other Things Too and i will work on it until it's where i want it to be So stay tuned. I hope you enjoy watching me look very awkward under lights and multiple cameras and sweating like a pig, far from the comfort of my own office but i've always been a bit of a contrarian so it's appropriate that while everyone is wanting more work from home i'm going back to the office It's also nice that my wife doesn't have to take two screaming chaotic toddlers out into the world for 2 hours while I record at home...I'M going out

22:27 So she's happy too. Another win! But if you have questions or concerns, leave me comments on this video both on the Plus site and on YouTube and I'll try to get in there an actually clear up anything that I might've missed It's not really that complicated but it does at least deserve its own announcement And you'l be seeing that first video show in...the next 48 hours or so Again thanks for all of your support for so long I'm not only been a podcaster for now fifteen years but i've been a fan of the conspiracy space even longer, i've seen really good people like. Jeff friends and alan what coast to coast am there are even say clive lewis these guys who are of an older generation that can do great work sometimes five nights a week crazy to me

CHAPTER 12 / 12 Discussion

Generational Evolution in Podcasting, Outro, and Theme Music

Reflecting on turning 40, the host discusses the need to evolve with technology to avoid the fate of older radio-era figures like Jeff Rense, Alan Watt, and John B. Wells. The segment concludes with a commitment to adapt rather than remain stagnant in old methods. The episode transitions into the closing theme music, which features lyrics about misdirection, the Vatican, and the "higher side" of conspiracy culture.

jeff rense· alan watt· john b. wells· generational shift· evolution

23:17 But they've been so attached to radio and the way of doing things that they're used to that they didn't evolve all that well into podcasting. So now i'm thinking about myself I turned 40 this year, i'm looking at the space i'm in and i'm seeing some changes and i can either go with the flow or end up like these other guys no shade adam it's just kind of a natural thing that happens we get set our ways its generational Some of these guys I mentioned are actually dead so they would have a hard time making those adjustments. And other ones are trying and other ones have just trusted the wrong people and it set them back, So i don't want to be too critical on some of the people I consider my heroes in this space John B Wells let's throw him in there too

24:03 But my observations are telling me that I should evolve and I probably should have done it already, but here we are. So again thank you for the support. Um extremely fortunate and caving on ads is the last thing i want to do so if i need to cave on everything else first let's do that but all right i guess i've said what i need to say take care of you in yours out there thanks for listening to my update and being engaged with this process and i'll see you on the other side with THC tv There's a secret lost to time Plasma stands and twists and spins Where the governments are with us we play With closure's covers The higher side just doesn't play And it's missed all ending search The Vatican's got it being Scott The church were the teachers Billy isn't clear When they decided to

25:58 So just cumming so they say The higher psych chance doesn't play Monit and Rob, endless misdirection Insurreticons got cars Cosmic thea The church of the teachers Or deceivers isn't clear Were we better off without a When they diss Cummin so

27:07 The higher sidechats doesn't play We don't want it, sugarcoat Disclosures coming so they say The higher sidechats doesn't play We don't want it, sugarcoat And right away