THC 37: Dr. Matt Mumber | Sustainable Wellness

01:45 Hello again, higher side chatters from San Diego drinking a little drink smoking a little smoke. I'm Greg Carlwood the pillar of health And let me tell you people, lately I've been feeling a bit hypocritical because i'll debate the potential damages of chemtrails vaccines and body scanners but I'll turn around and eat fast food seven days a week. I complain about fluoride in the tap water but I'll slam an energy drink every morning before going to work. I preach about the evils of Monsanto and the risk of genetically modified crops when nothing I eat on daily basis resembles a fucking crop Well ladies and gentlemen, it's time to stop playing the blame game and let's ask ourselves is the new world order really doing any more harm to us than we're doing to ourselves? Because I think some of us have been making excuses for far too long. And today's guest Dr. Matt Mumber is tired of our shit

02:32 Dr. Mumber is a practicing radiation oncologist and the past president of the Georgia Society of Clinical Oncology, and with his co-author yoga instructor Heather Reed they have written Sustainable Wellness An Integrative Approach to Transform Your Mind Body And Spirit. Dr. Mumber how are you? Doing well Well, I could say I was doing well but we both know i'm lying after that intro. And so you know as you know I usually focus on conspiracy and the paranormal but I get some of my guests from New Page Books and when they told me about sustainable wellness I thought it might be a good positive change of pace So why don't you tell the people a bit about your medical background? And Miss Reed's background and how you two came together to write this book

03:20 Well, I was formally trained as a physician at the University of Virginia and did my radiation oncology training at Wake Forest in Winstonstown North Carolina. Throughout my whole career, I've always been interested in thought that medicine should really approach not just the person and disease that person has but also look at the whole person, not just look at the illness. But look at a person's mental emotional status their physical status outside of the disease what is going on with things like nutrition and ability to be active and use all forms of therapy that are available not just kind of more traditional conventional therapies

04:06 And so I did a fellowship after I was out practicing as radiation oncologist, did a fellowship with Dr. Andrew Weil at the University of Arizona, the program for integrative medicine and in that program really found a good number of other physicians that felt the same way that I did and very fortunate about time to be one of the first oncologists to go through that type of program and actually wrote an academic textbook after getting out of it called Integrative Oncology Principles in Practice. And it basically examined ways to integrate different modalities into the cancer care process.

04:46 As a part of that training, I went to a group in California called Commonweal. Commonweal at that time had made a name for itself on Bill Moyers' Healing and the Mind. What they found was that they would put people through these week-long retreats and sometimes would have remarkable changes in their health status. So cancer would regress, their ability to get up and around would change tremendously and that really showed the link between that type of approach and the mind-body interaction how it could have an effect on disease and illness and health so I went out there to learn how to run these retreats for my cancer patients as well as for physicians

05:33 in order to help physicians stay connected to their calling, to serve people as a part of the medical profession. So once I did that the yoga instructor at Commonweal actually knew Heather and had taught Heather and Heather back then lived near Atlanta area which is where I live in Rome Georgia which is northwestern Atlanta and so the two of us hooked up and started uh... running these retreats and gradually that melded into doing a group sessions that went over eight week periods of time and overtime folks that came to both the retreat and groups kept saying gosh would you please put something out so we can have something to take with us after these retreats in groups so that we can sustain this practice and um... that's how the book came about

06:22 Let me ask you, these retreats I've heard about stuff similar before. It seems pretty miraculous to think that cancer would regress. That's something that is a huge concern probably to anyone in their 20s and 30s right now. Just it's kind of like spinning the wheel on which type your going to get because something is going It just seems like it's so rampant. But what are they doing differently on these retreats, specifically that almost seems to surpass the results of chemotherapy? Well, I think it's a matter of from the standpoint of surpassing the results of conventional therapies chemotherapy radiation and surgery are kind of big three conventional therapies. And we're not trying to get rid of those you know one of my favorite books is by guy named Ken Wilber and he wrote a book called A Brief History Of Everything and in that book he defines what integrated systems really need to look like

07:24 And an integrative system is a whole system. So what it does is that both transcends the old processes as well, as well as includes them so and integrative medicine approach will transcend the use of only chemotherapy radiation surgery which are pretty much just delivered downhill to an individual and still includes them but it goes beyond that actually enlist all of the healing capacities of the individual so the individual becomes more important than the tool and When the individual becomes more important than the tool then there are a ton of tools that are out there That really take the individual to actually apply them in order for them to work. And so that's what these

08:08 First of all, the number one first ingredient in any kind of retreat or group that we do and really the first step that we focus on in the book is learning how to stop. and as a good red blooded american position that uh... type a grew up on the score i'm actually teased in megaton high school and you get my own captain get out and get a good residency and make living at all but although stuff that uh... we all kind of strive to i was never taught

08:43 to stop. And so learning how to stop is a really vital part because when someone learns how to stop, all of the sudden they can learn how to be calm again something that is a lot of times things that we looked at the externals to calm us whatever those externals might be whether they be watching television or substances or lifestyle types of habits so instead of having something external come as being able to actually stop and calm ourselves in and out of ourselves. And then when were able to stop and calm all the sudden were able to get rest

09:27 That is a huge ingredient when we're approaching the work of healing. This is another word that used to freak me out, the word healing. Because I always thought of that when I was in medical school. I kind of thought it as being secondary to curing You know like healing is kinda well, you know What does that mean exactly people throw the word around a lot? Like, you know heal the world and now that's such a healing practice and so forth And so it's got this flowery kind of connotation It always did for me and then I read a book by a guy named Steven Levine He was an individual who liked to work with

10:04 people when they're in the death and dying situation. He was an incredibly thoughtful individual, so he said really the only way I'm going to get a better feel for how to serve this type of person is to go through the experience myself. Of course you want it still be alive afterwards! And so he said, well okay I'm just gonna... He had a wife that worked with him to do a lot of this stuff and she's wonderful as well. So they said okay we're going to die today is November 15th next November 15th is the death date and so were actually live consciously over the next year thinking we just have one year to live because you hear that alot when you've got a year to live

10:49 And so he did that and then he wrote a book that's appropriately named A Year to Live, and it's an awesome book. I would highly recommend it anybody. So in the first part of that book, I was reading along all of sudden this sentence just struck me kind of right between the eyes. It basically said if there is a single definition of healing It is to look with mercy and awareness at those pains, both mental and physical that we have dismissed in judgment and dismay." And I was like, wow.

11:24 That is heavy. Yeah, it is and that's difficult work. There's nothing flowery about that And so isn't it better? It struck me as well Isn't it better and isn't it even necessary to do that kind of work in a place where we're rested And so how do we get rested by learning how to stop, by learning how to calm, by learning how to rest and still have all of our faculties about us. So we can do work that before we just said you know what I'd rather not deal with that. I'd rather just put it under the rug put in the closet leave it somewhere and it'll take care of itself And so what I've seen is through that process and my hypothesis as to why these types of retreats, this type of work is able to basically help to guide people and help people find things inside themselves that they never knew were there. To make changes that they never thought they could because what happens when we're able to stop and calm and rest

12:19 and do that sometimes difficult work of healing all the sudden, all the energy we had to use the kind of resistance we had to keep up those blocks that we have to place to different experiences, different parts of our past or life or just even things that reminded us about it. All of a sudden a new perspective can take place and then all that energy can be freed out The wonderful quote, I love that the cost sums it up is that the greatest journey. is not to see distant vistas. The greatest journey is to see things with new eyes, and that's what this type of work brings. It brings an ability to look at your own life, to look at your own situation, to look at the past, to look towards the future, and actually be right here right now while you're doing that, and just see it all as though you never saw before

13:13 So that type of approach, that building and cultivating awareness approach is an unbelievable ingredient. It's the number one ingredient to healing, to the work of healing. And healing is very powerful. Right I mean there's so little emphasis on any type of real prevention or real healthy living it's just kind of like let the chips fall where they may and then we probably got something that'll make you feel a little bit better. But it's hard to learn to stop because there, ya know? There's no money in that! We don't get paid to stop. It seems like this book and even program, cause it extends beyond the book is...it IS an integrative approach but it seems like it would take a lot of time. How can

14:05 How better integrate this type of lifestyle into the 9-to-5 corporate framework that a lot of us are dealing with? That's a wonderful question, and we hear that all the time. I live that myself. I get up in the morning, go take care of my cancer patients, do radiation—I've been doing that now for about 20 years—and And no system is practical unless it actually can function in the day-to-day world. And so, the key to integrating this because I think you hit on two different pieces there that this is a book that talks about an integrative approach. So the integrative approach is one that can combine lots of different tools and we know those tools can work and work in specific individuals

14:54 But unless you can integrate it into your life, unless it can be integrated then it really doesn't work. So the key in my mind is thinking about this from a standpoint of first cultivating awareness that's really the first step in this type of approach and cultivating awareness doesn't take an hour sitting on a cushion or 30 minutes or 15 minutes or 10 minutes, or even 5 minutes or 1. It just takes one moment and that moment is the only moment you can be alive and that moment just happens to be right now. And so finding – the key is finding a way to bring yourself to right here and right now such

15:40 You're not constantly ruminating about the past or you're not constantly planning for the future Just that you're right here and right now even if it's just for one single moment And so one tool that I really like to use for that is to focus on what's going on in the body For that one moment, and there are lots of different ways. You can do that my favorite way of doing it is to focus on my breath and Because I know my breath can only exist right here. It can't exist, I can't experience it in the past or in the future. I can only experience it right now and I know that its going to be with me since the second I was born and will be with me until the second that I die

16:20 and so anytime i want to any moment even for a single breath which takes a few seconds to breathe in and breathe out i can focus bring my focus bring my attention to this present moment and all of sudden when we bring what i've read my attention to the present moment It's a lot easier to then be with whatever is going on. That gives me that little teeny practice of being able to just stop, you know? Stop the momentum of the day. Stop the momentum of my thoughts or my concerns and my worries and my fears... ...and just be right here right now."

16:58 so it is there are practical tools that you can use to do that and for me the most important one is being able to stop and focus on my breath, it seems like You know a way to start getting into the mindset of meditation really No yeah absolutely Absolutely. That's just another thing. That's just completely foreign to me And I again I blame not having the time but That's probably just a scapegoat, you know for laziness. Well, I don't think it's laziness. Laziness is when you know about something and you don't necessarily do it because of other thoughts or concerns but unfortunately we aren't taught in our culture to learn how to stop. That's part of our cultural practice and most schools generally teach children to meditate. We're generally taught the test.

17:59 Memorization. Yeah, and so memorization of regurgitation that's how we're taught and so finding ways to stop there's not a course of you know stopping 101 And so that's really been where I think if you look at the way our culture is moving if you look at the popularity let's say mindfulness-based stress reduction, which is one of the bigger practices out there to learn how to bring focus to the present moment. That is really catching on tremendously in our culture and I think it's because there has been this lack of emphasis on learning how to stop, this constant kind of striving forward so

18:41 There's some great resources out there concerning how to do it. Our book presents some really very practical, simple tools we call yoga bits. Heather came up with that term and uses it in class and her teaching. to just represent simple things that you can do during the day. Like she talks about a practice where another thing that most folks have is our hands, right? So we can instead of just focusing on the breath coming in and coming out in our belly or at the nose, you can use your hands and just count out and just follow your breaths so counting one breath and then touching the pointer finger then one breath and touching

19:23 the middle finger one breath and touching the ring finger, one breath and touching the pinky. And just going through that progression with both hands. So basically most people breathe about 12 times a minute so if you do that for eight breaths then you've got about 45 seconds or so of basically focusing on one thing only and that one thing is in this present moment. And what happens when you're able to look at that and do that, you kind of build the ability to focus such that whatever's going on in the moment is not the be all end all. So it kinda changes the way your brain actually works. It changes the pathways by which your brain processes information

20:13 Well, let me ask you outside of learning to stop. I mean since you do have a pretty traditional medical background and education where else do you think it is that the American philosophy to medicine and health is missing the mark? Well, I think ultimately the way it's evolving over time. It has evolved from something that is very technology and procedure focused to being more relationship centered so that again the physician is not the main purveyor of something, trying to fix what's broken or trying to help somebody that is weaker. It is more a partnership where we are trying to serve and so service can only take place on the level of shared humanity and I think medicine is moving toward that. Medicine is also moving toward including things

21:07 Simple as what we eat, how we move. How we manage stress in our life? How we look at what were ultimately concerned about which that's what we call our spirituality What's our ultimate concern and so then also looking at kind of what assets the Person with the illness or the patient brings to the table just that word patient is a good example of how How the relationship has already set up. The word patient comes from a Latin word That means submissive sufferer and so we're already kind of setup to be And so in order to really move medicine forward and as medicine does move forward what we're seeing is that

21:51 People are not submissively suffering anymore. They're becoming responsibly part Part responsible participants in their care and that's that's a big that's the next step That's and that's the next whole level That's going to we're not going to get rid of the technologies and procedures because they're good I mean, those are good things We can use those but we're going to expand upon it so that provider procedure sent centric type of field that's focused on healing or helping and fixing moves towards one that's relationship-centered and focused on service. Since you do have a background in radiation, I've heard from some people who prefer like holistic approaches to cancer...I've heard them describe radiation as a method that

22:37 It just tries to kill the cancer before it kills the host. As kind of saying, it pretty much makes you sick entirely and destroys your body in other ways... I'm completely ignorant! It's hard for me to know who to believe because everyone has an agenda that holistic people just want to demonize the conventional, but you seem to toe the line in the middle. Yeah so I mean I think that's...I would say if you look at evolution of all these things basically 20 years ago there was kind of like holistic medicine which was its own little field more or less and then there was conventional medicine

23:20 And then eventually what happened was there was alternative medicine and then there was conventional medicine. Then we started saying, well no it's not just alternative, there is complementary and alternative medicine. That had a nice little moniker to it so anything in medicine that worth its weight will have a little moniker you know? So it was called CAMM and all of sudden people could research CAMM. There was a national center for complementary and alternate medicine through the NCI And so then complementary alternative medicine kind of became more integrative medicine. So looking at what works regardless of what it is or where it came from and then trying to integrate into the system, and that's really where we are right now in that whole trajectory there has been a lot

24:04 There's been the conventional doctors saying that anything that isn't conventional is just pure quackery. It doesnít make any sense and itís all just frou-frou, kind of like the way I used to think about the word healing but when you actually Come to and take an objective and clear look at a lot of these complementary and alternative systems They have value and ultimately the way I've figured that out is just by experiencing them myself So, you know looking at what it's like to eat a whole food plant-based diet And how I feel looking at what it's like to experience acupuncture or massage or traditional Chinese medicine? You know looking at where it's like the practice meditation or

24:50 different forms of physical activity like yoga or to participate in groups. So all these things I've kind of done as my own little laboratory, but over time that's getting better the conspiracy theories on those sides where the complimentary folks will say well The establishment doesn't want you to know about these therapies because they're so much better and cheaper, and they work better. The other things don't work." Then the other side says that's just a bunch of quackery. What they do isn't really having any effect. All that is really kind of washing away. And the reason it's washing away is because people who have the ability to stand up and advocate for themselves are saying look...

25:32 You know, I'm important here. What I do is important here and these therapies work for me you know there are some therapies that it might not be possible to do a double-blind randomized trial, but that doesn't make it have any less value. And so the key is I think that there's different levels of evidence that need to be in place for different types of therapy. So for a therapy that is gonna have tremendous potential toxicity like radiation if we put somebody in a room and we deliver a dose of radiation

26:07 It could literally kill them if we deliver a dose of radiation to their whole body kind of like what would happen at Chernobyl or something like that. A whole-body dose of radiation can kill you it'd be really hard to take a dose of Saw Palmetto, that would kill you and so the risks are different the benefits are also different so radiation can be aimed and targeted at a cancer cell and kill the cancer cell. And if done in the correct way, it can spare normal tissue now different botanicals and other types of complementary approaches they hit specific targets but they hit him much more gently and So the benefit is

26:54 kind of milder, lighter more preventive prevention oriented more supportive oriented and the risk is also significantly lower. And so there are different intentions for different modalities and different risk benefit ratios for different modalities in order to truly transcend that include basically get to a point where we're looking at everything in the world of medicine that works, such that we can address issues that are related to the patient. A patience-centered relationship centered approach. We need to take that entire world into account and realize that we have big toolbox right? And in that toolbox there's conventional methods, there's complimentary methods or as alternative systems of care but none of those are more important than the individual and all of them can work together

27:50 Well said. You have a line in the book saying, from a cancer prevention standpoint there's no safe daily amount of alcohol which is really concerning to me but that's kind of all you've said about it why is that? Why is alcohol such a problem and I haven't heard that was related to cancer Yeah, so alcohol basically has multiple effects through the aero digestive tract and it has hormonal effects. Now people have talked about for example red wine because of the substances in it and how it could potentially help with heart disease and have some potential health benefits

28:33 And so the biggest study that's out there is a study that was done in Europe, over 300 thousand people. And it looked at trying to define if they're safe amount of alcohol that people can drink and ultimately they were just not able to define that now. There is a recent study that come out since we published our book or recent analysis of that study that said maybe people who are only drinking one drink a day were actually drinking more And so there could be some reporting bias there. But from a standpoint of just thinking about if you think about kind of the way we're taught about nutrition and our culture is with the old food pyramid, right? So at the very top of that pyramid are things that we just want to use sparingly occasionally

29:21 and so i would put alcohol at the very top of the pyramid that i don't think it's something that we should use on a daily basis uh... it's something that you know drinker to maybe once a week or uh... what's not this is reasonable but from a pure if your goal is to prevent illness, to say that you want a drink six pack a day is not a cancer prevention type of approach. And so I would put it right up there with tobacco use ultimately.

29:57 I've always been against that, which is so strange because no other areas of life am I healthy. But I do want to get a bit more into the book Sustainable Wellness as you heard in the intro. I'm not a healthy man. I thought maybe I could outline what a day is for me objectively and you could tell where you think the most beneficial changes can be made? Because when I wrote this out, I was like wow. That's pretty bad and it is because I don't stop. I don't really think about it. It isn't the back of my mind that I'm like okay tomorrow I'm gonna have to work out something different because I can't keep doing this but yet its been years so in all honesty I wake up for work after about five or six miserable hours of sleep. I usually feel sick. I'm stuffy. I call it allergies

30:47 I smoke some weed, take a shower and stop at 7-11 on my way to work. Usually get an energy drink, some kind of danish. Once i finally get lunch break, I smoke again with only 30 minutes usually go through drive thru to get a burger fries soda for sure I get off work, smoke weed and after a nine hour day at the store and an hour commute. I don't have the time or energy for much other than another drive through sadly maybe Panda Express or Taco Bell? I come home smoke some more have a few beers or mimosas embrace myself for another day so what am i not doing right

31:29 Well, I guess the first thing that I would say is how did you get to the point where you have this lifestyle right now? How did you arrive at this? that, you know growing up I always did have to have dinner with my family. You know it was a big thing my mom would always cook but once i got out of the age of having dinner nightly with my family with my parents I would just go through a drive-through with friends and we were living cheap at 16 to 18 probably little longer than that and uh... now its just

32:09 The show has so much, I have to dedicate so much time to the show off of work. It's like a second job So when I am at work, I really am just go-go-go and I don't have a lot of choices I know that to really do it right? I would have to Probably make myself food well in advance But I just don't seem to take the time I think a lot of people are probably in the same boat with me on that one Yeah, yeah. So what do you do when you're not working? Because it sounds like the work is really kind of what drives you right now. Is that right? I would say so! And when I'm not there, I feel like I deserve a couple hours of relaxation, so exercise is pretty much off the table as well

32:57 I think it's a pattern that a lot of people get into. I guess, I feel sort of lucky and that I have a high metabolism. I mean, I'm 6'1", I'm 165 pounds, I'm pretty skinny guy and if that were to really start changing, I'm sure I'd probably look at it differently but I know I can't be healthy regardless of what it looks like Yeah, yeah. So in your situation I would obviously need a little more time to sit and talk with you but just some things that I would just mirror for you or You know from a standpoint of kind of The rhythm of your life it sounds like and that sounds like you're not getting terribly restful sleep. No And then it sounds like your so from the standpoint of

33:49 I guess let's go through, let's use one of the things we use in the book with the three-legged stool health. Oh yeah! And I like that analogy because what would be like to talk about is if the stools out a balance then or if you have a stool your sittings on it is out of balance and just a little out of balance you don't need big tools You don't need to replace the leg or anything like that. You just need little tools to put under specific areas to get the thing back in balance Yeah. So the first step being able to be aware that it's out of balance. What you just did, that little exercise you just did is an exercise in awareness and so that's the first step. You just wrote down this is my day and so you're aware enough to know that this what your doing and sounds like your also aware enough to say its not terribly balanced relationship with you and your body right now. No not at all

34:44 And so then you start looking at the different legs of the three-legged stool, right? So physical activity wise what kind of physical activity do you do during the day? Just walk into the car to then drive to work. Right, so that leg is probably a little out of balance. So you might think about things might be leaning in that direction So that's one piece from I will look at then what what about from the standpoint of nutrition? You know from a nutritional standpoint Disaster eating a lot of processed foods. Are you eating a lot of animal products? Are you taking in something to help get you up and then are you taking in something that helps gets you down, you know what I mean? 100% all day every day. Check check check! Right okay so that

35:36 leg of the stool is also having a little rickety, you know could use some focus. And then the third leg of the stool is stress management so how do you feel like your stress level? Oh pretty through-the-roof. Pretty much unhappy all the time. You know just trying to get out of the nine-to-five day job is pretty stressful dealing with people all day it gets on my patience So your work, it sounds like you're not enjoying it that much. Is that correct? Right, that would be 100% correct and the only stress management I do...I like to pretend...I do feel like I have a pretty laid-back attitude but that doesn't necessarily mean that the stress washes off. I think marijuana is really my only and alcohol are really the only things I do deal with daily stress

36:35 Yeah, and so those are those two things have potential repercussions obviously. So they're kind of artificial ups and artificial downs to a certain extent. So that leg of the stool could use a little addressing. And from the spirituality perspective do you have any kind of spiritual connection or spiritual approach that you think about? Or what's your thing in your life if you were to say this is like the thing I'm ultimately concerned in my life I would say ultimately concerned, a bit of an obsession is being self-sustaining economically. Being able to buy back my freedom from the corporate world essentially that's probably the biggest concern think that's why work myself so hard to try and pull myself out of this

37:26 That adds a lot of stress. the average middle class life with some creative outlet like this show, or I also sell conspiracy t-shirts related to the show. And if those two things... If I could make a living doing those two things and you know, I would say buy back my freedom because I'm not forced to go anywhere to some building eight hours a day, eight nine hours a day that's the type of thing I'm talking about

38:07 Yeah, and so right now your work entails you working eight hours a day in a building basically? Yeah I actually run a video game store. A corporate video game store. I'm there about 50 hours a week Okay, okay another poison of sorts video games So I mean I think you know basically if you think about each of those areas and say to yourself okay first of all there's There's no need to like throw everything out and say, okay I'm just a total mess. And we need to change everything all at once you know so trying to start off with small incremental changes. I think it can be very helpful So instead of for example instead of the energy drinks Trying to substitute something like green tea

38:58 Green tea has lower amounts of caffeine in it, but it's also a very healthy beverage and can give you that pick-me-up energy type of thing. Yeah, and you can buy it at a Kroger. You can buy the tea bags and that can actually become kind of a stopping practice one of those little yoga bits where? You know there's takes time to heat up the water It takes time to take the teabag and put it in the cup Takes time to let it steep and during that time instead of just thinking about what am I going? Where have I been what have I got to do you can just say okay Let's just sit here and watch as this tea steeps now they say a watch pot never boils right That so

39:45 instead of watching what's happening with the tea, just watching what's happening in your body. Watching how you're breathing and maybe counting your breaths with your hand that type of thing so even that one little change can have multiple different points that it would impact you. It would impact you potentially nutritionally. It would impact you from a standpoint of stress management because it gives you that time to stop So that's one little kind of neat change. That could be helpful from the standpoint of from a standpoint of physical activity Just trying to even do something as simple as parking further away from the place that you work You know most people get real intimidated by saying exercise the word exercise it makes me think you got to go to a gym and

40:33 p ninety x and uh... you know that i'm not go out and run a marathon and uh... so forth and so on um... actually there's some thought that maybe overtaxing yourself with without level of physical activity could potentially in the long term put you out about as well more prone to injury and so forth and so i'm a big advocate of just the simple act of walking walking and so uh... get yourself a nice pair of sneakers that have decent support just walking a total of twenty to thirty minutes a day it doesn't even have to be all the wants to try to add spice in little pieces of physical activity

41:12 throughout the day. And so that would be one piece, just trying to walk 20-30 minutes a day even if you had to try to whichever some people are morning people or some people are night people I would more recommend walking either in the morning or during the day than I would trying to wait till nighttime because at nighttime you're kind of trying to ramp yourself down and get some rest So physical activity-wise, walking 20 minutes a day. Going back to the nutritional piece... ...there are trying to get in 50%, let's say starting with 50% of your diet as kind of a whole food plant based approach so what does that mean exactly? Ask yourself two questions before you eat half of what you eat is it apart from a plant or is it from an animal

42:05 If it's from an animal, then it doesn't meet the criteria. If it's from a plant then ask yourself is there part of the plant that has been crushed up and added salt sugar etc., oil? That's what processed food. And if its whole part of the plants, the roots, the fruit, the stem, the nut, the seeds, the leaves try to make...to start out with 50% of your diet have that half of your plate have that whole food plant based source And just do that for each portion of what you eat. And actually, some of the fast food restaurants nowadays are coming out with more foods that are like that. They're not perfect but for example McDonald's has an oatmeal now that has fruit and nuts in it

42:48 And that's a whole lot different than a Mc... whatever, McMuffin. I think McMuffin! Yeah it's a totally different deal and so instead of you know kind of ramping yourself up during the day and choosing just try to start out with doing 50% of your nutrition having a plant source. So do recommend more of a vegetarian lifestyle? Yes, I think whole food plant-based approach is the way. I like to think about it Yeah And there's a lot of for me There was a lot of reasons that I started eating like that It took a lot for me because I kind of was grown up with you know Like you know I sat down every night with my family and we'd have London broil and some vegetables milk

43:38 For me, over time going through medicine and learning about nutrition I realized that...and then also learning about just kind of what's going on in the world. I realize first of all plants are much more healthy than animal products and certainly way more healthy than processed foods. And I also realized that it takes a lot of natural resources to actually grow animals, to feed them to people as food And animals themselves produce more harmful gases associated with environmental damage than cars do. So if we would stop taking all of our plants that we're producing and feeding them to animals, that we then feed the humans, we'd be able to feed a lot more humans and we'd be able to protect the earth a lot more than we are right now. All those factors kind of for me played into

44:34 going and eating more of a whole food plant-based diet. Now, when Thanksgiving comes around do I eat a little piece of turkey? Yeah! But I'd say 99% of what I do is the whole food plant based diet and the reason I could do it ultimately are all those reasons but then Feel better and so all of these little things that we're talking about Greg all these little things these little Steps are things that you can just try for yourself because it doesn't matter if I sit here and say oh well You know try green tea instead of in any drink, you know Try trying watching yourself breathe while you're making the tea. Try walking 20 minutes a day When you're stuck at a stoplight tried focusing on your breath All these are just little teeny tools But if they don't work for you

45:21 then they don't work. And so finding something that does for you is the most vital thing. And that is tough, I think a lot of people are on sort of a fast food diet because of their jobs. Is there any supplements you would recommend to try to offset a diet like that? From a standpoint of supplements we think about them as being complementary to the diets so they don't replace- Not counteractive Yeah, you can't really...let's say there are certain companies that make dehydrated vegetable and fruit supplements and say okay well if you just take these pills then it's just like eating vegetables and fruits. You can just keep eating the standard American diet and everything will be fine. Ultimately that is not a good way of looking at it however I do think even with a whole food plant based approach

46:14 The soils that we're raising our foods in right now are significantly more depleted than they were 100 years ago. And so there are certain vitamins that we just don't get enough of, so I do advocate people take a good multivitamin. You can find a good one on the Dr. Wiles vitaminadvisor.com site. A good multivitamin and then another supplement that I recommend most folks to take is a good omega-3 fat We just don't get enough omega-3s in our diet in general and omega 3s are highly anti inflammatory And then the other vitamin that I generally recommend is vitamin D3 which

46:55 pretty much one of the bigger vitamins of the day, I guess you might say. And for men and women. So about a thousand international units of vitamin D3 are reasonable to take. Vitamin D3 is really more of a hormone so that's kind of foundational set of supplements for men. For women I would also add in calcium citrate But those are all foundational supplements now. There's other things that you can use from the natural world like botanicals That instead of for example instead of alcohol at night because one of the things that can happen when you're when you're constantly swinging from one high to One low and trying to kind of manipulate out with with things it's like the equivalent of When we were talking before about chemotherapy or radiation treating with

47:47 significant damage to normal tissues unless it's very targeted. So the risk-benefit ratio is different for chemotherapy and radiation than it is for complementary approaches, while the risk benefit ratio of alcohol and weed are energy drinks are different than let's say drinking a glass of valerian tea at night or chamomile tea at night, which can be very resting and calming. And drink a glass of green tea in the morning as something that can be somewhat stimulating. There's also a good mushroom extract that can help with men especially with energy levels and potency types of issues. It's called cordyceps

48:36 C-O-R-D-Y, C-E-P-S. And so it's not a psychedelic mushroom but... I am a big Joe Rogan fan and he on his podcast has sponsored that he is involved with one of the things they make, nootropics they call them, you know one of the things they make is a cordyceps mushroom immune system thing Yeah, so cordyceps has some immune benefit but it's more focused on energy and energy metabolism really And so there are other mushrooms that have significant immune benefits as well. So That's another thing I would think about in your situation You know trying to try to ramp up the your energy level with things like physical activity physical activity is

49:26 even though you're putting energy out it'd be that he talked before about how metabolism and what at what physical activity does is the kind of research here energy metabolism rates they just have more energy throughout the day uh... as long as your not doing anything in a balanced rational uh... and so uh... so all these things tend to conspire together all these little changes just like uh... the little changes that you would make if u what a restaurant there was a table those out of kilter in you'd put a little napkin on one of those legs at the table or another way it might be cool something but eventually you can figure out a way to balance without if you pay enough attention and if it's really worth it to you too to pay attention to what's going on there

50:12 So yeah, so these things you know the word health And you've said several times that you don't feel like you're too healthy and ultimately the way I think about health is health is just a balance between what's going on inside of yourself and what's going on outside of yourself and So finding that balance for you It's gonna look different than it's gonna look for me with the tools that you're going to use the approaches That you used the way that you The way that you kind of experience things is going to be different the way you think of things is gonna be different. And I think it's pretty clear that energy drinks and alcohol are worse for someone than, I would say marijuana usage but how do you feel about marijuana usage in itself? Like is that something that should be totally avoided because I've heard people say that does have some kind a cancer fighting properties

51:05 Yeah, there's a book called Marijuana Gateway to Health that was just recently put out and I purchased it. husband wrote it actually and he Supposedly an excellent book and marijuana does have significant medicinal benefit with regards to how its used it can all medicines the only difference between a medicine in a poison is dose So how you use any? Any medicine or anything that's going to be related to the dose of the setting. I

51:43 And so, it all depends on what your goals are when you're using anything basically. So... Fair! Well tell me a little bit about these group programs that you and Heather do? What sort of results have you seen from people really taking this seriously and really kicking it into gear because it is going to take a lot of work I mean I think I'm ready to do it but what kind of results have you seen any inspiring success stories Yeah, I mean it's you know one of the groups are based on this foundation of just safe space which safe space ultimately means that when we get together in a group basically Nobody knows better than anybody else what the answer is for any other individual so and it's confidential So it's basically a confidential holding Of whatever comes up without trying to fix it and that type of space is

52:39 vital in order for us to be able to see things with new eyes because if If any other piece I would say is kind of letting go of those expectations Because the expectations themselves can tend to Kind of drag us down and make it harder for us to be patient with ourselves and with what's the process? And so What i've seen It varies among individuals but anytime people ask me this, I usually think of the people that came in and they just look horrible. Then they leave and a couple months afterwards they'd look like a totally different person. This is from people that – I've seen it of course and I can witness it myself but it's more powerful when people come up to me afterwards that know that person

53:27 And they say gosh, they look like what the heck did you do? You know and generally the answer is I didn't do anything and that's the key to the process. The person is the key of the processing and I would say the first piece of your What your what you said was the most important one and that is that you want to do it and The the second piece I think that it's going to take time. It's going to be hard and yeah, it's important to Dedicate yourself too. It's important to set aside some time and to give it effort but usually this type of work in my mind it tends up it ends up kind of Taking on a life of its own And doesn't mean it's easy

54:16 easy, but it is something that tends to gain momentum. So the first Step obviously the most important step is to stop there's a there's a really good story That I like to tell it. It's usually about all these stories are kind of start the same way There's this enlightened master and then as your group of students that are with them, and they're saying gosh You know tell us what it's like Tell us what well we need to do to be enlightened in on and the master says okay? I'll talk a little bit about it so So there's a group of people and they're in the back of an airplane, and they've rented this airplane. It's going across country and they're playing a card game. There is the pilot then there is this group of people to be left alone. The group of people are sitting back there playing the game. The kicker to this game is that if you lose the game – if you run out of chips in the

55:11 You've got to jump out of the airplane without a parachute. And so, the students all say gosh wow we get it you really need to value life or else that's just not... That's the most important thing valuing life and then the master says well that's kind of one way looking at it but just think for a minute about how engaged in that game those people are going to be And so it's really that paying attention and that's one of the definitions that this guy John Kabat-Zinn gives Who founded mindfulness based stress reduction practice at the University of Massachusetts? He said that mindfulness is paying attention on purpose

55:57 Non-judgmentally to what's going on in the present moment as though your life depended on it and that as though your life Depended on a part. I think is an important part Yeah, because our life does depend on it ultimately because the only time we can experience our life Is right now? And Right now is gonna suck sometimes yeah, and that's okay, it's okay to be with that rather than put it aside and say I'll just deal with it later. And let me get on to something that is more preferable you know so... We are getting down too but I wanted ask a couple of questions more about stress really like I know its big factor kind of an unseen thing but clearly has effects on our health and our well-being what are some good stress management tips for todays modern American society?

56:51 Well, in the book we go over a process that's PQRSS. Like I said everything in medicine has to have initials to have some meaning right? So the P stands for practice finding time at least once a day to practice stopping it can just be for breath if you want extended it can be 20-30 minutes or space throughout the day but finding time to cultivate an awareness of what is going on here and now that practice So when we're able to be right here and right now, or we're able to stop then were able to question what's going on. To being inquisitive about it rather than letting the process drive us there is another really cool story that I like to think of when i think about that and that is little kid standing in middle of town this guy comes up on this beautiful horse he dressed as princely outfit and says hey mister where are you going? And the guys says I have no idea ask the horse

57:45 And so that's kind of like what happens with stress with our mind with our thoughts with our anything That's going on. That's bringing us stresses that it kind of has a momentum of its own So being able to stop and question then allows us to kind of grab the reins ourselves and when we question We can then do that first are we can reframe? The situation we can look at it from a new in different perspectives And when we reframe something, instead of responding... Instead of reacting based on what we did in the past or what we anticipate is going to happen in the future if you don't do XYZ. We can then choose to do the second R which is respond. Respond in a way that's gonna increase our ability to be balanced rather than responding and reacting in a way that just kind of is habitual robotic actions.

58:39 And then once we do that, go through the practice and the questioning and reframing and responding. That is kind of the easy part. The hard part is the last part – the S-part – and that is the surrender part. Again being a red-blooded American that likes to strive and make my own future, and I'm going to do this And I'm gonna make that happen and da da da da Surrendering and realizing that you know what? I've done. My best I've Gone through I've chosen to respond in this way, and I cannot totally control the outcome I've got to let it go and that back to me is the most That's the part where I typically find myself when I'm out of balance. I find myself trying to control

59:22 what's going on in the future and i find myself kinda uh... do a lot of shadow boxing without controlling thought about so if seductive swan in a nutshell uh... a process that can be used to help me stress there's a lot of great stress management tools again focusing on the breath is learning to stop their stings like massage things like again all these things are linked as a physical activity can help us stress any number of techniques guided imagery Different forms of meditation and progressive muscle relaxation Relaxation is a great way to do it. So just kind of alternately tensing and relaxing your muscles Writing down things in the journal just writing Kind of taking the journal and just freehand writing about a stressful experience or writing about just anything can be very stress-reducing I

1:00:15 And then, again there are also some botanicals that can help with stress management and stress reduction. So... And those would be the chamomile tea and valerian root you're talking about? I think those are two pretty good ones yeah. Yeah, because it just seems so tough because stress in itself if someone's under a lot of it they don't feel like they can take the time to stop but it is exactly what they need you know. Yeah, so it gets to be one of these things where It can become a cycle that we all tend to live on a plateau for the most part and then when we fall into illness is usually when we've gone through a cycle where

1:01:02 Not paying attention to what's going on when we're out of balance, and if we do that long enough then We're going to remain out of balance and ultimately. We're going to develop a disease And then the disease makes you stop so the question is can we learn how to? Find those little imbalances before we have to deal with the fact that we've got a disease It's making us stop Right. Well, that about does it for me hopefully There's something that people can take away from this whether its dealing with the stress or changing your diet But is there anything else you or miss reader working on that? You'd like to share with the people

1:01:39 Yeah, we have a website that's sustainable wellness online.com and That's got some good resources on it some good information I would recommend that you pick up the book and you can either Read it on your own or start a group of just a couple of friends That you can meet once weekly to go through the eight steps together You can ask us questions online. There's a little section that says, Ask Dr. Matt and Heather. We're also developing an app that will consist of some of the meditations that are in each part of the group such that you can instead of having to read them, you can actually hear Heather and I going through those meditations so that'd be a nice tool to use from standpoint of using the book.

1:02:32 So those are the main things I think. you know, had a different result than I thought it would have. It tells you about what your main vices are for your personality and virtues and ego fixation. It's pretty cool! It's interesting so I encourage everyone to check it out. Sustainable wellness is an integrative approach to transform your mind body and spirit. And make sure you eat your spinach. Is there anything else to add Matt?

1:03:14 That sounds great, Greg. Thank you so much for talking with me today and I wish you the best of luck! All right thank you sir! Let me know how it goes over the next eight weeks. All right i'll do that stay well! You too take care There it is, people's sustainable wellness and health with Dr. Matt Mumber In other news thanks for all the support in the podcast awards we'll know in January if THC is worthy Also the fine folks over at Tuck & Toke have reached out to me and the THC audience The founder of Tuck & Toke smoking apparatus came up with a design which is like a hookah hose on the end of a enclosed metal bowl He was trying to smoke on a ski lift not easy with gloves and wind so he created the Tuck & Toke

1:03:58 Sort of a fun way to smoke regardless if you need to be discreet or not. They were cool enough to send out a couple to me, I've been digging it! They're $15 at tuckntoke.com and if you use the coupon code HIRESIDE you'll get 5 bucks off A cool little 10 dollar piece for the holidays Or something for stocking stuffer And your supporting a man's small business which is important You know, as always check out conspirites.net for all your conspiracy clothing needs We have a new design the corporate sheep head it's very fucking cool Check it out enough from me Here's a great song to get you started on the path of health and wellness while you reflect on your life Listen to let me sleep by night lightning Keep your pimp hands strong get on your motherfucking Wellness chase and I'll catch you next time people

1:05:45 Almost close to tears this time Taking the canvas with us, our son