THC 15: Amy Vickers | The Starchild Skull

00:05 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation. I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Alright listen up people, 80 years ago deep in a mine in Copper Canyon Mexico A 900 year old human like skull was found now known as the Starchild Skull. What's interesting about this skull is the numerous differences between it and a typical human skull Some consider this skull to be the smoking gun evidence that we've been visited by extraterrestrials

00:55 And today I'm excited to have a chat with the Chief Operating Officer of the Starchild Project, Amy Vickers. Here to talk about what the hell this thing is! Amy how are you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me on my pleasure. I'm glad that you are willing to do this I've been fascinated with the mystery surrounding the skull Since I first seen it pop up on, I think it was UFO hunters? I've also seen it on Coast-to-Coast AM and um...I'm psyched to hear the latest from The Starchild Project But first can you paint a picture for us of the details under which The Starchild Skull was discovered

01:32 A short thing, it was actually found by an American tourist in Mexico as you said in the 1930s. She basically founded a mine tunnel It's a little macabre, but she just found it along with another full skeleton. She was only able to recover the two skulls one of them is the star child one of them is a normal skull she brought them back with her to the States and basically kept them as a souvenir her entire life Just thinking well this is a really unusual skull And this is a normal skull and this from my holiday in Mexico and when she was

02:08 getting on in life and knew that she would be dying soon, she passed them onto friends to pass them onto friends and then they passed them onto Ray and Melanie Young the current owners of the skull. Melanie was a neonatal nurse so she took an immediate interest wanting to know what kind of deformity it was if it even was a deformity because she'd never seen anything nearly is

02:46 The Starchild project is just an informal organization of people who arranged to have the skull tested by different independent facilities and that's what has been going on with it for about 12 years now. Since 1999, just test after test after test every time that funding permits and every time it makes sense we've just thrown in the kitchen sink at it Yeah, I've actually heard that through the various interviews you've done and Lloyd's done that there is...I hear different numbers between 10 and 25 major differences between a star child and human skull. There are absolutely 25 major differences everything from the bone being at least half as thick and twice as durable than normal human bone

03:29 to the shape of the skull being radically different, the position of the neck on the skull being basically impossible for you or me or any other normal kind of human. To things that we found inside the bone of the skull microscopic fibers woven through the matrix of the bone of the skull like steel bar rebar reinforcing concrete and also not necessarily microscopic but very, very hard to see with the naked eye. We found a reddish residue inside the cancellous holes of the skull Now the cancellous holes is where your bone marrow usually is so you would think well it's red residue It must just be desiccated bone marrow Well after 900 years there should be nothing left in those cancellous holes And even if it was blood or bone marrow There's no way it would still be red, it would be black

04:17 So we've had different mycologists and other experts look at it to try and figure out whether it's some kind of fungus or mold or what it could be, and they're all absolutely baffled by it. There should be nothing left inside the bone after 900 years. The natural bacteria should have eaten all of us so we have something here that seems to be immune to natural biological decomposition on this planet. That just on its own is enormous but then when you combine it with the fibers that no one has ever seen in any bone anywhere before, you combine that with the unusual shape of the skull, the qualities and strength and thinness and lightness of the bone – it's just off-the charts! There is no combination of deformities that you can come up with that would make a human

05:05 be born with a skull like this and somehow survive not just long enough to grow teeth but long enough to grind its teeth down with use which is the case with the Starchild Skull. Now a lot of the interviews I see about the Starchild skull, they waste a lot of time trying to explain it away with various human conditions whether it be cradle boarding or water on the brain. Or some other kind of deformity but these fibers and thickness of the skull alone not to mention that thing looks like a god damn alien these things are...are to me Pretty impressive facts that go well beyond just the general shape of the skull, which is weird looking enough. But I've heard some kind of weird things happen when the skull was tested for durability and cut for samples for testing Can you tell us what those things might have been?

05:54 Absolutely. Now, you mentioned seeing UFO hunters there's actually been a number of documentaries that the skull has been on and recently they tried to actually do a hardness test on television they got a hardness meter which is basically a device where you punch a hole through something and it tells you how much force was required to punch a hole through it well thats testing compression strength The strength of the Starchild Skull, while it did measure higher than normal bone on that compression test. The strength that we have is not so much just strength how much it takes to crush it? It's durability. I mean your bones aren't there to stop you from being crushed they're there to not break under tensile pressure when they get bent. The Starchild Skull bone has those fibers going through it or

06:47 theorized that they give it strength and flexibility as well. So even though that puncture test that they tried to do only registered it being somewhat higher than normal human bone, when they went to cut the bone samples out of the skull for the first time, they used a small rotary cutting saw. It's a little electric saw with a circular blade that is made of tungsten carbide which has the same kind of metal that your dentist's drill bits are made out of. So they cut, again we have two skulls found in the same mine tunnel, they're the same age 900 years old so we usually use that normal skull as a control against the Starchild Skull just in case there is any kind of degradation they use that blood

07:29 blade to cut through the normal skull and it just cut it like butter. That's what its there for, it just cut right through it like it was nothing they got a clean blade of the same kind and went to cut the Starchild skull It literally bounced off the bone They could not get it to cut with any degree of ease In in the end they did manage to get it to cut and we ended up switching to a diamond coated blade but this isn't This is something unbelievable in this bone that's giving it properties that are very hard to explain. That's, to me one of the most interesting things as far as the fibers are concerned do we know what the fibers are made up like I mean they're apparently they're anomalous to this planet like no one there's no fibers and any other bone as far as i've heard from other various interviews correct?

08:20 You're absolutely correct. There is a condition called Morgellons that it's medically unclassified, the medical associations haven't said it's an official disease yet. It does cause fibers in the skin and they are about 10 times larger than the fibers found inside the Starchild skull bone but Nothing in the actual bone, Morgellons doesn't give you fibers inside the bone. No condition gives you fibers inside the bone like we have in the case of the Starchild scale This is so far out there this is so dissimilar from anything that's ever been seen before We can't tell you what those fibers are

08:59 we have to invent a protocol to be able to pull those fibers out of the bone and then we can test them and find out what they are but there isn't even a test invented yet. There isn't some method, some system to get those fibers out at the bone because nothing like this has ever been seen before. There's never been a call for it So we really have something that is not just really interesting its really unique Right And you said before the skull was found with another skeleton of a woman I've heard. Are these two related or do we have any idea like why they were you know found together, why they were together? Is the Starchild skull a child? We aren't sure if it's a child. We have conflicting evidence on that some aspects of the skull point to a child five or six other aspects point to someone that's older somewhere around the age of 21

09:58 25 other aspects point to someone much older. So we're really at kind of an impasse And a number of our experts are just sure it's a child and then we have others that are positive It's an adult so that's up in the air, but it was named as starchild when The only test that had been done on it were x-rays and they showed that it had somewhat childlike teeth. And so, that's what we based off of. So, it may have been a child the woman you're absolutely correct she was a woman found with this skull is not genetically related to it at all. It's not to say she couldn't be an adoptive mother, but they aren't genetically related in any way and the fact that they were found together does make us think that there is some kind of emotional connection between the two but we just don't know what that is at this point but we are so happy to have a control skull because

10:49 Early on in the process, I mentioned the bone is literally half as thick and weighs half as much as normal human bone. Well, as bone ages over hundreds of years it does get a tiny little bit thicker sorry, a tiny little bit thinner. Oops! Look at that tongue gets a little thinner over time so one of the early excuses that people throw up is to say well that's just post-mortem contraction of the bone that's just gotten thinner because because it's older. We had this other skull that has been in the exact same conditions, that we could pull out and say no this is what posthumous bone contraction looks like and so its been a wonderful comparison for us at every step of the way. And are there any clues to their relationship based on how they were found or anything like that?

11:36 Well, they were actually found in a very unusual situation. The entire skeleton of the Starchild skull was buried in a shallow grave and the entire skeleton of the human female skull was found above the ground next to it and sticking up out all that shallow grave with their hand and forearm of the Starchild skull wrapped around her upper arm bone so the only conclusion we were able to draw from that is that

12:22 Story that fits the fact is that if she buried this star child being and then somehow died herself next to it But felt such a strong attachment that she wanted to hold its hand or have it holding her arm for all eternity Are there any clues to how she died? We don't know unfortunately with with only having the skulls. We don't have any obvious head injuries there is a healed concussion, a healed fracture on the skull of the human female so she could have been just stark raving mad we have no way of knowing this but it was healed she did not die from that injury they died from something else which is don't know what. That's just crazy I've heard numerous interviews with skull has been DNA tested which seems to be obviously the most

13:16 reliable way to figure out what is going on here. But I've heard that the mother was human and then the father was a mystery, and now I've hear from more recent interview on Coast 2 Coast that I understand both parents are in question? What's the deal there?" Well, we have a policy at the Starchild project of putting out information as soon as we have it. And so sometimes the result of that is we put things out before we have all of the facts and we have to backtrack a little bit. When we did the first round of DNA testing was all the way back in 1999

13:53 That test was just a disaster. It was a complete contamination The result that they got was that it was 100% human male and we released that information and then in 2003, We found out that the test was was contaminated, it was just wrong because we did another test at a much more sophisticated lab that was designed for testing ancient DNA and that test was able to recover maternal DNA from its mother but no DNA from the father. We knew there was DNA there, it's just looking for human DNA from the father we weren't able to find any and so the theory then became well it must have a human mother since we found a small amount of human maternal DNA and maybe it has an alien father because we cannot find any paternal human DNA And that's been our story since...since then That's what the evidence that we had up until very recently told us

14:51 This latest round of DNA testing that we've done is even more sophisticated. I mean, DNA testing has just gone by leaps and bounds in the last few years. We've gone from the Stone Ages right up to the latest cutting-edge technology and what we're doing now. And these latest DNA tests recovered more of the maternal DNA and that maternal DNA that was found in 2003 Was indeed human or at least close enough to human that we could? Identify it as being human, but now that we have now that We have much more of the mother's DNA. We can see that parts of it are indeed Human or very human like but much bigger part arts are not much bigger parts a very very very unusual there are

15:41 two kinds of DNA in all of us. We've got mitochondrial DNA that's only from our mother and nuclear DNA that is from both parents The nuclear DNA is what they talk about when they talk about the human genome It's the thing that basically makes us individuals as we are The mitochondrial DNA is all about energy Mitochondria are the powerhouse of our cells You can't survive without them They have a very specialized task And they need much, much less DNA to do that task So we're just going to focus in on that mitochondrial DNA. All of us, all humans every race every person on the planet has within a hundred and twenty differences in that DNA of each other there are only 120 collective differences amongst all humans from what we've recovered from the star child it's going to end up having between 800 and 1,000

16:33 thousand differences so a hundred and twenty amongst all humans and eight hundred to a thousand differences in the star child it's just off-the-charts difference even though there are elements of it that are human or human enough to be recognized, there is no way to say that had a human mother. So yes you're right both parents definitely on the table now. I'm obviously not expert in DNA testing but How is it possible that there could be elements of human mitochondrial DNA which would give evidence to suggest the mother was human if it is, you know, the alternative which is completely foreign to this planet? Well think about it. We humans share genetic material with just about everything on this planet or whatever it is 95% the same as a gorilla 60% the same as a rat

17:32 To be alive on this planet requires your body to be able to synthesize certain proteins, to do certain things, to deal with certain elements and minerals that exist on this planet. It makes sense that if you have something that's going to be able to survive on this planet it is going to have some of those same characteristics When we're talking about this mitochondrial DNA, your entire genome everything that makes you you is about 3 billion base pairs. A base pair is every step in the ladder of DNA so if you picture the double helix ladder each step as a base pair just the mitochondrial DNA

18:11 is 16,569 of those base pairs. So basically 16 and a half thousand versus three billion so it's a much smaller much more concentrated part of your DNA. That's not to say that they're couldn't be an alien species out there that is radically different from us, not a single skerrick of their DNA anything like ours. But the odds are it probably wouldn't be able to survive or do well on this planet at all It wouldn't have what it needs to be able to cope here So if you have an alien being living here that's managing, that surviving, that eating

18:49 going on, then it seems pretty reasonable to us that it would have some elements of its DNA that are the same. And when we're talking about some elements we're only talking about 30-50 of those base pairs or those steps in a ladder out of 16500 that were recovered in 2003 just small little segments of it that are very human or human like and in between those segments that are human or human-like, we have radical differences. Things that no human could survive if my DNA was like that I would be dead so fast We just cannot function cannot survive if our DNA was as different as the Starchild's DNA is already turning out to be. We've only got about 10% of that 16500 but nonetheless it's enough that we can see already

19:42 You me any normal human could not survive if it had the differences. We've already found in the star child skulls DNA fair Do you think there's a way to? Let's assume the star child skull is It's alien is there a way to map a new species genome from the Star Child Oh absolutely, that's actually our goal. The testing that we've done so far is very preliminary what we want to do is recover the entire genome which you recall took years when they were doing it for humans but now that they've kind of worked the kinks out of that system its really only a one-to two year process so that the next thing for us is

20:25 get the funding that we need to complete the entire genome recovery and see exactly how similar and how different it is from human. It's already well off the charts, it's already different enough that I think anyone would be confident calling it a different species. Remember every human has only 120 differences? We've only got 10% of the Starchilds' genome or 9 1⁄2%. We've already found 93 differences in there So if we don't find a single other difference, I mean we're already well past the point of calling it a new species. Neanderthals which are very clearly different species they only have 200 differences from the baseline from which humans have 120 differences so that

21:13 80 is enough to call Neanderthals a new species. We've got 93 already in the star child, so if Neanderthal's are different species the star child skulls are different species at the very least and we think much more likely a completely alien life form. Is there...is the chemistry that makes up the bone, are there any differences between that and normal bone that we know of? Between humans or animals It's made of the same general stuff as human bones are made out of. The balance of the different minerals within the bone is a little different, it seems to have much more collagen

21:57 just gram for gram than human bone would have in the order of two to three times as much. Now that's very interesting, I don't know if you're aware of this but collagen is absolutely essential to the healing process so the fact that it has so much more collagen makes us wonder maybe if it had some extra kind of healing ability that perhaps we don't have in terms of the biochemistry of the bone, it's actually pretty similar to tooth enamel but somehow manages to be more flexible than tooth enamel. So that's what makes us so very interested in these fibers where we're extremely excited

22:35 about what we can do in the future medically with the information that we're going to get out of this star child skull's bone. We like to think that one day, will be able to really benefit humanity from what comes out on this skull. At this stage, it's hard to know. Absolutely nothing could end up coming out of it but the fact that this being was able to live and survive with such incredible differences really opens up the playing field for what can be done, what can be accomplished and we're very interested to see how that pans out once were able to get the genome recovered.

23:14 Now the mine that it was found in, has it been completely explored for any type of other artifact or any type of other weird anomalous stuff down there? Actually, no. We have never mounted an expedition down there to try and find the mineshaft that the girl recovered the skulls from She claims that she took both full skeletons with her And lost the skeletons She was only able to hold on to the skulls There was a flood and she lost the other bones But she does...she was able to recover the skull So there could be a ravine in Mexico somewhere With the entire rest of these skeletons in there or

23:52 There could be dozens of others in that same mine tunnel. We just don't know and unfortunately with the current instability in that area, we're not really eager to go down there and it just seems a little dangerous for us at the moment but that's definitely something that we're very interested in doing in the future Yeah, I mean that's to me was one of the things. I've never heard asked and I always wondered because it seems like you know here is a pinpointed location where something this crazy has been found and now that seems like the place to explore Well if it's a very large pinpoint we have a general area Southwest of Chihuahua in the Copper Canyon region We don't know exactly what mine tunnel And there are thousands often than that area so it would be a very

24:39 arduous expedition to go and to find and explore each of these mind tunnels. So it's a very substantial time commitment, financial commitment to be able to do it so right now we're just focusing on the one that we have in hand and will worry about trying to find the two in the bush down the road. What are other goals for the Starchild project besides obviously trying to map some type of genome from this skull? Well that really is the all-encompassing goal right now. We want to get the entire genome from the skull and tell everyone what we have, we intend to actually make documentary films about the testing process about everything that's come out of the skull. We really believe this could be the first absolute undisputable

25:30 solid tangible evidence of aliens visiting planet Earth. Now that's not to say that we operate at the exclusion of every other possibility, but as far as we can tell that is the direction all of the facts are pointing and instead ruling it out offhand because you know that what crazy people wearing tinfoil hats think were prepared to explore their possibility and if thats what it is Everyone needs to know about this. This is going to be so significant, everything and everyone on this planet that we want to give as many people as possible an opportunity to inform themselves, to be aware of it, to have happen whatever good can come out of this

26:14 Yeah, I mean there's obviously tons of stories of visitation. A lot of people suggest that all religions were based on visitation beings coming from the sky But outside of the Starchild skull have you seen any other Like what's the next most compelling evidence? You've heard of a valent visitation or have seen or is there any is there any other skull or our bones found anywhere Well, there is a lot of compelling anecdotal and film evidence but as far as bones go I would say the next likely candidate is the conehead skull in Peru. There are a number of skulls that are clearly human that have just been artificially deformed they wrap cloth around the skull and force them into kind of a cone head shape

27:03 but then there are hundreds, literally hundreds of other skulls where the bone is twice as thick as normal human bone. The eye sockets are a little different, the jaws are different and most significantly there is twice as much brain inside that skull and there are hundreds of these. These are clearly not any kind of humans we currently understand it. There's no evidence of artificial head binding on any of them they're just absolutely off the charts difference so that would be the next thing that we would like to investigate and in fact my associate Lloyd Pye has already taken the steps of working with people inside Peru, with a scientific community there on moving forward with that testing process. I mean... The skull to me it does look like a typical gray alien from you know what

27:59 the composite that most people have put together through Hollywood and stuff. It really is fascinating, I think the skull is so crazy and the fact that people try to dismiss it as this condition or that condition...it's all kind of null and void when you look at the fibers apparently the brain capacity is larger, the thickness of the skull those are all things that aren't going to be related to any disease Well, there was actually a girl that we worked with the number of years ago who wanted to do her university thesis on the Starchild skull and she started out doing a very serious analysis of it and then she got the word from her professors that if you don't

28:42 start discrediting this thing pretty quick, we're going to fail you. And so she from that went and found I think she ended up with about two dozen different conditions that if somehow a person had all two dozen of these conditions they would be kind of like the Starchild skull unfortunately those conditions contraindicated each other so it would have been absolutely impossible but nonetheless that was the closest anyone's ever come to being able to explain it. I guarantee you and your listeners that if this had an easy answer, we would love to find it! We have been looking for that for years but there just isn't anything out there that explains it... If you say okay the skull is this shape and the eye sockets are so shallow because it had pressure inside the skull

29:30 Well, that would be great if there was any evidence of that whatsoever. In fact we have evidence from CAT scans that there was no unusual pressure inside the skull. Anything that you can name, there is a reason why it's absolutely impossible and There are still a naysayers out there and that's fine. They're welcome to keep believing that but people who really take the time to look at the evidence are always just amazed, that's how we've managed to get such an incredibly reputable team on our side working on this even often to the mockery of their colleagues just because they can see how incredibly different, how very important this skull is to the world of science

30:15 Well elaborating on that, are you facing resistance from the academic and scientific communities? Is there a reluctance to look at this thing seriously? Oh always. It's been an enormous hurdle for us for every one person that really pays attention and looks at the evidence And says okay let's get some more information before I make a decision There are 100 people who make a snap decision without even looking at it in many cases doing any research without looking at any of the research that we've done and they'll just say offhandedly, it's a deformity or it's this or if it's that. Nature can do anything and you're just barking up the wrong tree. And that is what so exciting to us about DNA because you can't argue with DNA there is a lot we don't understand about nuclear DNA, the three billion base pairs There is about 95% percent of that but we really don't know exactly what

31:13 But the mitochondrial DNA, the 16 and a half thousand that we already have nine and a half percent of that had the 93 differences in it already. That doesn't have great swaths that we don't understand. That is some of the most highly conserved genetic material that exists within the human body if very much goes wrong with them that part of your DNA you just can't survive It is so crucial and now we have very solid evidence that within that crucial can't be changed part of the DNA, we have changes that no one has ever seen before. We've really finally got the kind of evidence that we need to put down the naysayers once and for all. Is the Starchild skull up for display anywhere?

32:05 No, unfortunately it's not. We have replicas that we take with us to conferences and events like that but the real skull has a number of large sections cut out of it for different testing that has been done over the course of the last 12 years and so we intend once all is said and done to get those large missing sections repaired and then hope to display it at a museum somewhere but for the moment, it's in such bad shape and we're returning to it so often to get new samples that there is no way really to display it effectively.

32:45 Man, because I would love to see that. I'm sure a lot of people would. Well the next best thing is the Starchild Project website www.starchildproject.com There is a ton of free information there for anyone that's interested You'll find most of your questions are answered but if they're not we always love to hear from people Yeah it's a great website! I love the video that's right up in front It outlines a lot of differences between skull and normal human skulls I think it's awesome to hear that you guys are on your way to mapping some type of genome from this. I'm sure obviously it is going to take a long time. How did you originally get involved with the project yourself?

33:28 Well, I've been with the project since 2004 and I actually came on initially as the webmaster and Have just stuck with it ever since doing whatever needed to be done And now I'm their chief of operations still pretty much. Just doing whatever needs to be done Are you guys finding? With the reluctance from the scientific community are you having a hard time getting the proper funding? It is difficult yes part of the problem Is that we aren't yet to the point of publishing anything in a peer-reviewed journal We've had a number of informal reports done but the process of going through and getting it published in one of those papers

34:14 It can literally take years. It's very arduous, you need to have things proven to a level of certainty that we will absolutely have once we complete the genome testing but at this point our findings are preliminary so it's difficult to publish a findings report when you don't your completed findings that does make things difficult for us but what we found and the reason we have that policy of disclosing information as soon as it's available to us is that most people out there really don't care about whether you've used enough big words or how many different PhDs have looked at it. They're perfectly happy with one

34:58 PhD and just the facts, just the information. And so that's what we're doing right now We're just focusing on getting those facts out to people as easily and as quickly as we can That's fair! I hope that this interview helps that process along in its own little way Amy before I let you go I've kind of got a challenge for you because where I am pretty much accepting anything that makes life more interesting A friend of mine, Hermo and frequent guest of the show takes a little more skeptical approach to these types of situations. When I told him that i was going to be having you on he researched the website and sent me his opinion on this situation which I'd like to read for you and give you chance respond if you don't object. Please do! Okay well great while he does admit the skull is strange and pretty unexplainable He adds this

35:55 The main thing that I find really strange about this situation is that Mr. Pi talks consistently about how the skull and the research surrounding it is being completely shunned by the academic science elite, he chalks his ideas up as another one of those compelling paranormal finds that science ignores and that suggestion sounds absolutely preposterous to me There's a whole lot of scientists in this world who spend their entire adult lives digging into ground hoping to find something interesting If this find is genuine, it doesn't make any sense that scientists wouldn't be jumping over one another to study it for themselves. If you had a strange really old looking skull I guarantee you could walk into any properly outfitted university biology department in the country and say I want to know if this is human and you'd find an eager person who will run the PCR on DNA for free

36:43 Yet Mr. Pi acts like everyone is avoiding his skull because of some ingrained scientific bias and that he has to jump through hoops to get anyone to look at it And, of course, he needs people to donate to his site so we can pay to have the tests run and that's why I don't like it That's obviously a very skeptical view but that was the most damning of what he had to say He did admit it was very odd and there is no answer With testing if it was human there should be an answer Well no, absolutely and I fully respect everyone's right to their opinion. And that is what I thought too my first contact with the project was writing Mr Pye an email saying you've got to be joking if this was a real thing then I work in an archaeology department I'm sure they would love to do this testing for you but this is obviously a hoax because your asking for donations

37:36 Well, that's true. We do ask for donations to maintain the site if anyone would like to donate a couple of million dollars we'd be more than happy to do the DNA testing but it's certainly not a lap of luxury kind of thing and it would be lot nicer for me if was but we really do use the donations for testing, for maintenance at the website for very legitimate things to do with the testing process. I can understand the concerns but anyone who's ever actually tried to do this can tell you that's not how it works at all. It is a very competitive environment, there is only a certain amount of funding available for a certain amount of things and if you don't fit into whatever the flavor of the month happens to be, you're going to have a really hard time getting that funding

38:29 uh... we have tried taking this in fact before came on board with it mister pine extensively tried to take this to various universities and other places to have a test that they had the way it does just so completely idiotic that there's an easy solution and wedges stumbling around for twelve years without trying it again i've by respect his right to his opinion this is one of those things where it should be that easy. Science should be willing to tackle anything that it comes across and I'm not talking about individual people, I am talking about the establishment of mainstream science as almost a religion where certain things have to be adhered to, certain steps have to be followed

39:19 If you aren't willing to follow every one of those steps precisely because this was found by a tourist instead of being part of an archaeological dig, because Mr. Pye is indeed quite outspoken spoken about this. There is a host of reasons that make it more attractive for people to shun it than to actually do any investigation into it, and I would love if your...I'm sorry was your friend there that wrote in? Yeah, our friend who frequently does the show

39:55 Well, sir I'm so glad that you do listen in and that you are listening in today. But if you are able to find a university that is willing to do this ancient DNA testing it's fairly complicated, it's fairly expensive... If you find us a lab willing to do it that would be fantastic. Please get in touch with us, the contact information is on the website we would absolutely love to hear from you or any reputable institution that you have that is willing to undertake this testing. Well there you go Hermo, the challenge has been set! It's not an opinion I agree with but if it didn't at least include it then I would be doing a disservice. I'm sure there are plenty of people thinking the same thing because I certainly did.

40:48 everyone wouldn't be jumping all over it. And it's because in a lot of ways we went through the wrong channels to begin with and if it was easy to go through the right channels I'm sure that that's what they would have done but, uh... We have tried over more than a decade now just about everything you can think off and all I can say is if there's a way to get it done let us know will be more than happy to take on this suggestion Well, Amy I really appreciate you coming on the show. I advise everyone to take a look at the skull and obviously going to have to include some pictures with it It is a really interesting find and so far unexplainable And I wish you guys the best on your quest to blow this thing up and get people talking about it Thank you very much thanks for having me on