Schwab | Hollywood Trickster Imps, Goblin Markets, & The Psycho-metabolism

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01:40 So that's our little workaround to give you plus on Spotify if that's your thing. But that's it, it's a pretty simple machine so come on in there's so much more to hear sign up is quick and easy and you're keeping a truly independent platform intact for me to still be doing this the same way after so many years clearly that means the members are pretty happy and you could be too think about it tell a friend and thanks for listening The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan There's clearly maybe something there beyond the realm of man And until we've thoroughly tested every last close-chested view I find, the more we think we know The less we really do Where would we be without THC?

02:46 Cause we know they're lying to us, just don't know to what degree. Without THC my chest show great. The owls are not what they seem people from the Sunshine State I'm Greg Carlwood and lately it's easy to see that something is missing for modern life and our current course only seems to be making that hole bigger We have lost the connection with our higher self and higher realms, as well as any cultural acknowledgement of our multidimensionality. The etheric plane pushed out-of-frame by a cybernetic one – the mind bombarded with endless weaponized stimuli while the body falls into a grotesque cycle of endless indulgence in short term comfort.

03:37 Our eternal myths plastered over with commercialized fables designed by behaviorists and consumer culture engineers that have replaced the wild call to adventure and rites of passage with summer savings on theme park packages in a manufactured fantasy land of adult children playing dress up for the low, low cost of two months wages. But today's fruits are the results of plans and plotting that go back further than most people know, and the consequences of what has been lost can only be written off as arbitrary by the truly ignorant. It seems that for so many of the voluntary victims of The Big Machine you don't know what ya got even when it is gone! But fear not dear people here to shoehorn some sanity back into counter-cultural consciousness is the one they call Schwab

04:20 He's been here three times before talking about everything from the bizarre reports of what we call the Great Chicago Fire, the mystical sky world of Magonia, the dirigible deception and great loss it represents accounts of and encounters with the super spectral ecology. And of course our modern plague known as the cybernetic takeover of everything in the subsequent cognitive holocaust You can lock on to his never-ending insights on Twitter under RealHumanSchwab, as well as his wildly popular substack at schwabstack.substack.com It's an honor and a pleasure, as always today's Goblin Market Tour Guide Cultural Critic & Bonafide King of Counterculture & High Strangeness Schwab my good man welcome back! How the hell are ya? Wonderful intro as always I'm doing great

05:07 Love to hear it. So just curious, are you going to do a followup to that Chicago fires thing? I've seen some people expressing a bit of a hunger for it. Yeah. It just kind of got caught up in other things. You know how that is. It does deserve a thorough study to drill down on it more so yeah if there is a call for it, I definitely will. Fair enough stay tuned people. You always gotta keep them wanting and today's attention economy You're playing the game well. So I am always psyched to get to talk to you again for this one, we settled on three posts of yours to cover that all have some overlapping ideas despite being wildly different and the first one is girl boss ex machina it goes way way back it's a few years old and I tried to fit into at least one of the previous shows We just didn't have time

05:57 It's largely about the original sexualized woman child of hollywood by the name of mary pick ford and the two point oh perfected version shirley temple. And there are layers to this examination some more complex than others but it's more than just the start of the hollywood sexualization of children that we've, Become plenty familiar with over the years but to quote the post you say every surely temple movie was a horror film, surely temple black represented the grotesque knowing innocent the impish trickster the baby chimera as dolly named her the youngest most sacred monster of the cinema in her time.

06:38 Well, talk to us about the intention behind building this woman-child archetype and how this chapter of Hollywood was going. Well it was during the Great Depression there's a lot of disillusionment so you had people going to the cinema to find that image of purity it was one of the first times you had this branching into the hyper real where you are seeing the fruits of industrialization and the boom bust cycle and things like that in the carnage that creates. And then simultaneously, you have this projected image off idealized america we're yeah i got a perfect doll people can go and see your smile the body telly smile

07:30 Here's the quote from Roosevelt, when the spirit of the people is lower than at any other time during this depression it is a splendid thing that for just 15 cents an American can go to the movies and look at the smiling face of a baby and forget his troubles. So you have the sentimentalization of childhood with this image and its sort of this derealizing thing people are no longer looking at the real image You know, during this time you also had a lot of childhood delinquency. Homelessness, crushing poverty, fatherlessness, motherlessness, orphanages filling up all this human carnage happening it was like a steam release valve for people that's when it first started happening what is called like a therapeutic function for cinema

08:20 Right right with that quote it's like clearly they think so highly of us to just be. Entertain by the smile of a child forget that you don't have food look at this kid is good smiling, Also note that this kid is made to look like an adult because the hair's all done up like an adult but also she's wearing veneers. She doesn't have childhood teeth, she has adult teeth and there's something weird going on with that! To quote you again, you say modern audiences will often project a pedophilic gaze into the performances of Temple and Pickford At the time these performances were not viewed through a sexual lens at least not consciously. Both actresses represented a moral value through a kind of aesthetic superiority, a robust purity that outmaneuvers agents of corruption and I do think you're picking up on something there the knowing innocent as you put it thats the trickster imp aspect

09:17 This isn't a child, it's like an adult mind or you might say a machine mind in a child body and there is a lot of manipulation going on under the guise of cutesy that had multifaceted uses. Definitely so you see this sort of tricksterish forcing a lot in media going all the way back to the Renaissance where I would say its like trickster coded so they stack all these different liminalities she's not a child she's not a grown woman She looks like this baby, she has the shrewd big face but she behaves in this coquettish manner. Like you said about the teeth in Europe you can see the perspective there and Europe there was this conspiracy theory that she was a dwarf because they weren't it wasn't meant for their vision It was like this highly focused beam of propaganda that's targeting the American mind so we didn't really have the same effect on Europeans as it did on us So they had this other view

10:18 as being this sort of monstrous dwarf that was impersonating a child. And so you have all of this sort of stacking of liminality that really attacks people at their core, right? It really just sort of shuttles you right out of reality as soon as you start interacting with it and engaging with it. Yeah I was going to ask you this... So There might be something going on with superman and this trailer for the new ones coming out like you said, this was a pacifier for the masses when things were really grim they just wanted to see a little kid singing and dancing in laughing and carrying on. Add it's like wind times are good we're very cool with post apocalyptic gritty

11:03 representations in film and when things are looking apocalyptic we wanna go the other way give us something a lot more happy and i think there's something with that superman trailer it went kind of viral a lot of people were looking at like. I'm ready to get back to an idealized version of america and its nice to see, love story between just two regular heterosexual adults that we just maybe haven't seen portrayed in a little while, according to some people. And it just seemed like it's not as agenda driven of course you know rah-rah America is its own agenda but do you think there's something there where It went viral because people are hungry for that type of vision again that type of story one that really hasn't been told in awhile? Oh definitely! People are always going to be hungry or

11:58 desiring those kinds of images. Those are natural, normal images but once again you see it come after like 10 years of abuse that came from Hollywood and then you see how people are just so ready to forget that Hollywood was happily humiliating them for almost a decade and just sort of sending all these sort of gloomy sad sack images at them and inverting things and ruining franchises over and over and over again And now it's like, are they being forced to pivot or is it? I don't know. It's anybody's guess. It reminds me of the torture process that you read about in the Kubark manuals and things where you have to give people a break otherwise they just become numb to it so you have a cycle of 10 years of cultural revolution and now this is a bit cynical and then you have

12:53 you know, maybe 10 years of letting off the brakes a little bit. Give people some breathing room so they can regain some of their sensitivity I would like to see things oscillate all like really far back if we're going to give some people some traditional wholesome images let's go back to 1910 let's go back 100 years You know that's really get accelerate into wholesomeness you now? I'd like to see that kind of thing some more traditional fairy tradition stuff or folkloric tradition things in movies. And even in science fiction, there's a huge number of science fiction stories that don't align with any agenda and they're really good they're great they're like some of the best writing and fantastic storytelling out there but they're completely overlooked. What would you put on that list?

13:47 Well, I was just thinking about military sci-fi. The Forever War. Excellent military science fiction, the forever war Joe Halderman and you have this really deep examination of what war does to people and it's very good I like it. I'll put it on my to watch list, but yeah we have had a real flipping of the usual script and we've had uh decade of Judd Apatow's armies of the Michael Saras and the Seth Rogen leading men let's get back to Conan! Conan The Barbarian and Superman and the whole alpha male ubermensch thing...I'm joking but you write about the on-and-off of this stuff and how it's just a big cycle

14:34 Play kating one side outraging the other flipping the script giving them something making the other side upset it's just an emotional roller coaster but getting back to the chile temple stuff. This was really interesting. So in terms of adult child myth building from another piece by this guy Eckert C titled Shirley Temple and the house of Rockefeller, and I thought that name was interesting obviously Rockefellers I'm perking up but that's because they were investing in Hollywood and facilitating the merger of 20th century and Fox who employed Shirley temple But this is part of the lore crafting. She's mature, so it's okay to sexualize her and

15:16 This quote goes since birth surely had never awakened at night she had never been out of the mother seem to remember a little cold once. She refused to take a bottle and had to be fed with a spoon at three months, she spoke it six months in walked that thirteen months heroes every morning either singing or reciting the line should memorize for her days work She was a genius with an IQ of 155. She did not mark her books, scroll on wallpaper or break her toys. She did not cry even when physically injured during the shooting of a scene. Doctors and dentists wrote her mother asking for the secrets of her diet and hygiene. Her mother responded that there weren't any she had no concern for or sense of herself."

16:04 Hmm, that last line is very frightening and the rest of it is just clear bullshit to anyone familiar with children. And then you add this quote, Shirley Temple doesn't hurt Shirley Temple Black. Shirley Temple helps Shirley Temple Black. She has thought of as a friend which I am and now you start to see that weird split personality disassociation stuff like Amanda Bynes or Britney Spears Definitely, she was definitely broken at some point whether her mother did it or it was in the black box. We can talk about that in a second but for her mother to say she had no concern or sense of herself that just seems like even though a lot of it seemed like BS are just marketing for the kid It does seem that's a little bit too much for her to say something like that For her to say she had no sense of herself and it does remind you

17:01 the changeling, the artificially created child. I'm not saying that's what she was but it's very interesting that the conditions of Hollywood and being a child star in that machine produced something that pretty much directly resonates with this folkloric image of the wax child or the changeling. I find that really interesting Yeah i would agree for sure and let's definitely talk about the black box thing and then get into some of your other posts but i definitely wanted. This mention cuz it is quite dark i don't know if you wanna read right from the autobiography or just give us the gist but tell people about this they might not know how dark it gets sometimes okay disobedience carries its price the price was penalty time in a large black box

17:51 Lamont was keeper of the key. Lamont was like this director, two soundproof boxes were available for us only one to be used for sound mixing the other was empty saved for a large block of ice it's diabolical dark interior waiting expectantly for some troublesome child to be thrust inside for punishment not always befitting the crime if it's an arbitrary punishment you know, for like a small offense that's classic torture technique right? No child wants to lie down in a cold puddle yet standing grows tiresome as the final satanic option. These are her words like this is an autobiography by Shirley Temple

18:32 As a final satanic option, the ice block provided the only place to sit. I'm sorry for laughing it's just too absurd Before utilizing this black box however our production staff had to temporarily separate mothers and offspring right so you have that separation there that's very important as well That problem was easily solved Mothers were officially excluded from the set at all times on the pretext of their exclusion would avoid tumult noise and divided authority Under this policy of exclusion, mothers were no longer chaperones but simply chauffeurs. Hairdressers and seamstresses as mothers patted us goodbye a child welfare supervisor theoretically took charge smiling benignly so they have this sort of surrogate that stands in for them hired by the studio basically a handler across the threshold we would all troop and the big airtight doors of the soundstage would close behind us with a soft whoosh

19:27 Several times I wound up banished inside Lamont's black box. It was really a devilish punishment, take one small willful child heated under bright Klieg lights until perspiration starts remove child directly to the chill of the black box close access door tightly and leave the child in box until sufficiently cooled and chastened remove child reheat under the glare of Klieg lights and carry on with work." So you're talking about a cycle that would induce pneumonia or other kinds of infections. The box proved the ultimate enforcer, increased obedience followed as night follows day." And Temple's comments on this you know what happened to her? Is this trauma or is this something else she says so far as I can tell the black box did no lasting damage to my psyche its lesson of life however was profound and unforgettable time is money now this is when she's six years old

20:26 performing, you know doing like baby burlesque. This is the kind of environment that she's in so yeah the black box would cause intestinal flu pneumonia this is potentially fatal affliction for you know four to six year old children It's absolutely insane. It is, and it's just a glimpse into if it goes back that far and there has never been any accountability or anything done about it like how bad is it today? At least I would think it would be at least that bad Yeah the story is that things improved with time but we have all kinds of signs that there are still handlers out there

21:08 I think a lot of it is pharmaceutical or introducing them to drugs. It's a bit more scientific now than it was back then, but essentially putting them in a chemical black box rather than the physical one. That's just really interesting post that you've written and seeing the images not fresh in my mind It's obviously before our time but you see these images when you're younger and then as an adult you look at them it's like what the hell were they doing. And then the woman tries to say this in an autobiography and it's like, there is definitely aspects where even today some actors have tried to drop hints about how bad it is and the audience on The Tonight Show just laughs

21:57 And they're like, okay cool. No one cares and nothing's going to get done I guess i'll just keep my mouth shut because i'm definitely gonna get whipped for what I just said to Jay Leno and dark stuff so that's kind of an aspect of the overall thing we're talking about this artificial overlay that started with early Hollywood but let's jump over to this recent post of yours Lew Licker Land and the Goblin Market. Lew Licker Land, right? Yeah let's just call it Goblin Market And The Goblin Market One of my favorites of all really because you weave in context for Fortean Events and the practices of Disney in Hollywood in general and it just goes to so many strange places but to crack this open explain the source of this title and what you mean by a goblin market Lew Licker Land is or

22:51 the land of toys or the land of pleasure was this sort of earthly paradise in medieval times where you didn't have to work, you could just lay around all day. All the food you wanted was there. It was put into the original Pinocchio, the original fable as an analogy or metaphor for Pinocchio's land of toys where he turns into a donkey So the idea is very deep in folklore of this place that you go to and the food that you eat there transforms you. It sort of rots or mutates you in some way where you can't really come back to humanity, and I use this as a metaphor for the sort of mutational effects of the image of man or the human image that happened with modern media not just media but identity markets as well like where people derive their identity from

23:48 these images from consuming Disney products, the most extreme case would be like the Disney adult. But the point I'm making with The Goblin Market is that it's a spectrum right? If you have a good home life and dependable parents, the father still there and you get good human images of how to behave and how to relate other people But when you see there's no other images for the child to derive, like to fill their imagination and sort of model themselves on. That's the other extreme, Disney adult. And these people really can't have relationships with other people unless they go through this protocol, this medium. They can't relate. They have to talk about what movies they liked, what Disney movies especially they liked with each other and that's a substance of all their conversations in their connection

24:44 But it's a matter of degrees, so even if you only watch some of it there is still a more subtle effect. This is what this article is about. It's about the more subtle effects especially as they relate to individuation or what I call the authorial event or authorial moment where people sort of start to write their own narratives Yeah it's kind of contrasting fairyland and disneyland disneyland being a commercialized synthetic version of the myth of fairy land indulgence. Singing and dancing forgetting what time it is and being in this fantasy twilight state a synthetic liminal space hundred percent that's what it is its overlay let sort out,

25:34 concretizes that process of the supernatural experience. I have a good summary for it, so the authorial event is the highly improbable experience, a fairy or cryptid sighting maybe even a brush with death that is an integral and crucial part of human development Even 150 years ago, nearly everyone had such experiences. The less time children are exposed to the full range of probabilities, the more coddled and sentimentalized the fewer chances they have to exercise their sense of the supernatural and write their own narrative." What I mean by that is that any kind of liminal exploration that children get into...I think one of the more popular ones for boys was like exploring the underground like going into sewers and things in crawling around

26:26 or exploring an abandoned house or construction site and finding a weird bug, you weren't sure if it really existed. And you would go home and look it up in a book maybe couldn't find it like was that a monster? Did I actually see that? That actually happened to me a few times so these kinds of things are formative events that really change us. In the more extreme examples I give are sort of ufo visitation that's why i start the article with that experience yeah i was actually gonna ask you to lay out the details of the charles hewitt encounter did you cover because it's just a fun case study and also represents a lot of important things that usually come up in these reports.

27:14 Yeah, it's a pretty typical case. So you've got Charlie Hewitt he is home alone during vacation time like around Christmas he is up at 2am probably past his normal bedtime so everything is very highly liminal His parents aren't around they are on vacation in Florida and if you remember how that felt its kind of almost magical space right? It's very strange even when your 15-16 years old it's a very special time being left to your own devices with parents in another state, maybe halfway across the continent. Right you're doing what you'd always do but the net is gone Yeah and you can feel that it's very palpable so he starts to feel this impulse to look outside He goes up to the blinds and then he sees this police car just sitting there with lights off just sitting there in front of his house And this is a quiet neighborhood There's no reason for their to be a police car there So he gets another impulse to go outside

28:14 He opens the door, he walks down the driveway and while he's walking he feels like he hits this wall or that he just crosses into this bizarre dream world. He describes it as he suddenly felt half awake. He calls it like he was in a virtual reality like in The Matrix and this can be related sort of to The Oz Effect but its very extreme instance of it so you get that sort of hyper real and unreal at the same time contrasting opposites of these little zones that are created during high strangeness encounters. So all of a sudden he sees, he looks under the car and he sees that both officers are grinning at him with these really like big sinister grins identical, he calls it a really weird smile an insane smile like crazy and dangerous so at the moment he's staring at them and then the car disappears it fades out there was this egg-shaped object

29:10 He tries to run, he freaks out. It's like a dream time starts to slow until you can't move until it is completely frozen everything goes dark now using the backyard suddenly and then the two policemen are now the men in black stereotype not the ones from the movie but the real one weird like no eyebrows they look kind of like golem little bit very pale they barely look human And so they take him up onto what now looks like a UFO. So the egg-shaped object, whatever that was is no longer there. There's an actual classic UFO waiting for him. He gets shackled to the bed, surgical scrubs put on him and then you know the three classic small hairless figures come in with large black eyes. They touch them and they give him this vision of post World War III where it's complete extinction

30:05 And then another vision follows where it's Earth millennia later, everything is reclaimed by nature. There is wildlife everywhere, animals living in harmony and you can even see human pets are thriving as well and that left him with this very distinct sentiment that he now has like as a person. It's that an Earth without humans wouldn't be so bad Like even though he like senses it's a tragedy, but he has been completely alienated from his own sort of default alignment with humans. This isn't a depressed goth kid that is cutting himself this is you know normal kid right? So the kind of harrowing depressing experiences like four years just being an outcast in high school or I say like four years being at university

30:57 where you become completely alienated, you know, you become a vegan or something and you become guilty about being human and fantasize about the world being taken over by animals. That kind of self-degradation occurred in maybe 30 minutes highly condensed individuation period where he's now transformed and he's got these really depressing thoughts in his head but he feels good about them right? He has positive emotions about a world without humans. So that kind of rapid catastrophic adaptation or mutation to a person, those kinds of things often happen in paranormal experiences and they're not always like that there some of them are very positive people come out of them with new abilities sometimes they become more productive so some of them are very positive I point this out because i believe that before like the wall of childhood amnesia

31:57 everybody has sort of similar experiences. Very, very strange experiences are happening like an imaginary friend that maybe sometimes they can actually move objects on their own or very I would say surprising things like things that if you could remember would just sort of shake your adult mind to its core. Like you would not really the sort of overlapping world of imagination over the real kind of all the time and I do think those experiences we derive a lot of our sense of the supernatural from those pre-childhood amnesia, like basically it's around five years old for most people. For some people it's about three but when those things occur later on in life they're almost like an update to that. They have that same effect where its alters or enhances our sense of supernature, our sense of higher reality and sort

32:55 updates or modifies the personality to a great extent. Yes, and you kind of touched on some stuff that's in this paragraph but in the piece you tell the story of the encounter And then you say the visions the space goblins offer charlie are entertaining but the math doesn't add up to creatures seem unaware that the earth's surface area is vast most of it would be unaffected by nuclear exchange and a long term effects of radiation have been grossly exaggerated. The only potential human extinction scenario relies on the nuclear winter model based fraud regardless any,

33:33 Nuclear scenario where human pets have survived, their masters will have also survived. The sci-fi fantasy film these kidnappers featured was targeted at a low information audience perhaps custom made for Charlie. Apparently they traveled light years to deliver middling eco communist antihuman propaganda but it worked! Charlie's general identification with humanity is now specifically estranged This is not vague alienation he has positive ideation about a world without humans what might take days or weeks of mk ultra psycho to mom medic derangement or four years of university education was accomplished in thirty minutes. And that's so well said i think you're on the something there but i still struggle with, what is really going on under the hood these events are why condition people and this way

34:29 You could say there's the technology or the process they use to do this thing, and then there is the material in it. Why this kind of material over and over again? Because it mimics folklore. It's a sort of inversion of folklore which you want to do is stack on top people's ancestral memory if you really want to change people You can't just invent new myths, you have to take the mythical substances of these perennial universal almost planet-wide myths that you have everywhere. Of fairies coming and bringing visions or all the different things that they do and so you take that in then you warp it, you invert it, you mutate the image a bit for modern audience and redirected whatever direction you want to put into. That's why you use

35:26 Goblins, for example. Because that's what essentially as far as a folkloric image goes that's what aliens are especially the greys they're one-to-one goblins they do all the things that goblins did they behave like goblins They can give you like images but there is a little bit of overlap with fairies it sort of depends on experience But the one he had where he was held down With manacles and everything, I think the more physical ones are definitely the goblin archetype. So yeah that's why you use this specific material because it resonates with people and it causes this harmonic resonance where you change the material of their persona, of their identity

36:08 Yeah, even some stories of biblical angels like the vision would be apocalyptic. Like that's obviously a trope way before nuclear weapons were ever thing but it so often associated today with nuclear weapons. So what's the harder question you thought I was going to ask? Like how is this actually technically done and who's doing it? Oh yeah like who and what agencies are involved You talk about that too, that like now it seems as if the intelligence agencies are involved yet this kind of thing predates intelligence agencies. So who is really doing it and how are they getting it done? Are the goblins themselves real or is that also a projection? Alright we can speculate right let's say there is a system of governance like a demiurgic system of governance over the planet

37:04 And it doesn't have to be necessarily negative from their end, it's just sort of amoral. So they come down and let's imagine that its like beings of pure plasma That's how they organize themselves as what they consist up some sort of organized sentient plasma. So they come down and they send a probe and essentially It's kind of ritual theater that they put on in order to communicate with us because our language isn't really reliable Like people don't tell the truth about who they are and what they are. It's not a reliable transmission, so in order to sort of get the complete sense of a person and sort of map them where people are you create this ritual theater that brings all these elements out of them So you can record it and map it They would be just as interested in psychically mapping us as they would genetically

38:07 you would want the full spectrum of information to do your experiments or your probing, your information gathering whatever that might be. Right? You could also say that if these are beings from an etheric thought realm they might even be more interested in the psyche and consciousness and the deep depths of human consciousness than our DNA and the physical aspects because they're like we don't even... That's not primary for us! Exactly It's a matter of perspective, so that's probably why they arrange all of these things. I mean because if you think about it if it really was just nuts and bolts they came here with a faster than light ship or interdimensional travel none of this ritual theater would be necessary like if they wanted to get blood samples like you wouldn't even know Or if they wanted you to have a vision that would just encode in your memory which is the direct You wouldn't have to go through all of these things They could just change your belief structure

39:07 And the strange variety of things as well, also there's this sort of conversation that's happening. You can see that going back and forth and they're doing things according to our protocols, our cultural imaginal system of images. They're taking into account the logistics of vision that we're immersed in at that space time so they wouldn't care about that. They would just make you think goblins came or you can put people in all kinds of states where they'll forget things just through mundane hypnosis, you know. Just where they can imagine that they're talking to their high school teacher or something You don't have to do all this extra stuff There's definitely something happening at that level Where they want to pull out imaginal elements out of people and interact on that level You even say

40:01 If you took enough dmt right now there's a good chance in between rounds of ego killing mockery ontological shocks love bombing and other forms of target softening. You would encounter substantially similar transmission indeed the signal has been curiously stable much like the ufo phenomenon itself and i just like throwing then, Target softening there is it like that's just another type of conditioning as a preparation for a big event i don't know why they wanna leave people with the feelings they often do sometimes it's a call to shamanism or this new found. Healing ability that does come out of some of these things hey,

40:41 renewed sense of stewardship for the land, which I think is a good thing. You know the whole divine objective seems to be to be stewards of the land and everything so that's probably good but maybe it is like you say some kind of built-in demiurgic management system. Yeah like a planetary management system that's almost like if you look at the way that the neoplatonists and in the Bible as well like the way that angels are described or the celestial governors are described they are very much like artificial intelligence is so yeah it would just be this sort of automatic thing.

41:17 that's part of the solar system, you know part of this incubator. Yeah well that is super interesting because recently an idea that has been kicked around a bit is we are in a realm of cyclical time of rises and falls with that people are like well were coming up on a time of cataclysm sure maybe but there's huge difference between 10 years 100 years 1000 year why even talk about something thousand away when a human life span is eighty years but it's just interesting because the thought is that atlantis was the last height and they had this, technological society and they were messing with chimeras in doing things that you could see poetic language that kinda describes the sciences of today. And then there's this idea that

42:09 once it was all destroyed and were toiling around in the mud trying to rebuild the voice people here is the disembodied a i that atlantis built, add that becomes ya way and then now we're just kinda going through this cycle of like what. Is going on here and these voices that people hear like what is really speaking from the ark of the covenant Is it picking up on something truly a theory and real or is it some holdover technology from the last round that people forgot even happened at all it's a curious question but obviously you would opt for saying no there's something.

42:47 truly organic and natural and a theory out there but it's a curious thing when we're going down that road. Yeah i think both things could be happening i think we can be caught in two and with weird cycles, is definitely the sense of technology is sort of waiting there in the akashic records or maybe they are there as a cryptocracy people that he Atlantean technology, all those things are also possible. But what I'm usually working with when i look at is the majority of these things do seem to follow a very certain pattern that does seem geared towards sort of cultivating people like individuating them in most cases I think getting them to become more real like expressing more things out of themselves more their internal images

43:35 Yeah i call the action you could say in the biblical accounts. The visions of the angel isn't even the main event that just kicks a story off and then the story is often what did this person do, once they were called to action wants this trigger event happened where is it forty entails and modern madson modern telling these encounters we're focused on that encounter and it's like, whoa what was that about? And we don't even know what the person did the next day a lot of times. That's 100% right I think people should focus on if you do have one of these encounters focus on the change that is made in you Don't think about the encounter and what means in this sort of...I really don't think that were going to ever fully You know for some people they'll get a vision a sorta framework how things work

44:27 the sort of cosmic managerial system, that can be valuable for some people if you really want to know about that. But most of these events are subjective they're for you and you should think about the changes that happen in you and that's the real meaning, that's the real message, the alteration of your path. Yeah I agree and then you lay out a lot of this and then you get deep into a look at Disney it's interesting because you make some really good points about the fact that he was always interested in being a. Engineer of culture even though the pr front for disney is like oh well he just kinda stumbled into this success as i happy accident but in reality,

45:19 it was a grand intentional manipulation you write about how he ran animation studios like sweatshops but the PR called at the imaginary where animators are bringing dreams to life, and he worked with nasa in the FBI to create propaganda where he could. Made up parks as a sort of artificial fairyland or goblin market that's essentially the goblin market term is like being there to deliver where's that you think you want but i really good for u and is technocratic futurist ambitions were shown off at abc the centralized always connected techno smart city of the future. Another version of what the world's fairs we're doing to the western psyche as you say right yeah hundred percent it was a continuation of the worlds fair tradition more updated version of it and i think what happened was

46:15 There is a certain point where the electronic media sphere that was created, was able to take over from a physical time space like an Epcot center. Using extended universes or like the Disney world is this media sphere they've created and people can live inside of that through the movies now with the internet they can be inside of it 24 7 and its much more immersive And while the theme parks are important still, and they're still like a big source of their revenue and people go there like it's Mecca for them. It isn't really that necessary anymore. They're living in this sort of virtual Epcot center, this sort of virtualized World's Fair all the time. And that's really the essence of The Goblin Market right where they're existing in this virtual environment as beings. So they become this kind of hybrid being

47:14 They're half this being of media and half flesh. And you can speculate whether or not that's having epigenetic or long-term genetic effects on people, that would be a whole other article in an investigation, little bit too horrifying for me at the moment but it's definitely creating these very artificial identity markets that definitely do change them as people Yes and you contrast disney and tolkien pretty well in this paragraph right disney has spent nearly a century inducing diluted folkloric images are rather stereotype schemas, have a reduced resolution where in their aggregate instance a virtual ancestral memory as severely gay land of toys and place of midgard. In the words of token the fairy tale function is to open a door on other time

48:07 And if we pass through, though only for a moment we stand outside of our own time maybe outside the time itself. Token further identified the virtuous operations of The Fairy Tale. The satisfaction of certain primordial human desires which are to survey the depths of time and space and hold communion with other living things but overall the primal desire at the heart of fairy is the realization independent of the conceiving mind of imagined wonder therefore the function of disney's fairy tale similacra would be to. Instance a realized other world do not in shant but in train the audience and park attendee in a cyber, chronicized other time a pocket dimension of changeling is the disney version is a mining operation in the monday

49:00 Imagine Alice constructed fairy shaped concessions which do not open a portal to Fairyland but reroute traffic to Goblin markets. Who were the hard to read but again great and i see the contrast going back to forty events and how that relates. These are also manipulations as we discussed on one level i see, the contrast of a portal to fairyland versus artificial commercialized goblin market but on the other based on the stories i'm not sure anyone wants to go to fairy land either at least disney will let you leave if you get the urge

49:38 Yeah, I think the fairy tradition was also a virtual place for people to have a safe experience of the other time as well. It was more synchronized and harmonized with actual reality in what I was talking about this sort of 40 and planetary system out there of individuation of high strange events that kind of happened to people organically. People didn't have to go into fairy time and I don't know vanish off the face of the earth or come back at change like themselves they could learn from the symbolic tradition of that, that was synchronized with that. They just had to know a guy who knows a guy? Pretty much I think that's how it functions. It has got pretty good high fidelity if you think about how much they have in common with each other all over the different elements and how much they unite over time and space over different cultures all over the planet so its pretty good its not bad of a tradition it worked for thousands of years Yes

50:39 And when it comes to ideas you say instead of knowing as ancient did that all thought originates from the heavenly spheres celestial governors abysmal demons or personal day man's muses or, and amnesia man began to identify as his ideation fixing this attribution of ether to his own personal reality. This seems very important but break this down for us cuz there's a huge contrast between the way people in ancient greece or egypt thought about the ethereal realms and ideas and thought, verses the way we do today and this seems like a really important part to get right. Do you understand the context of all the other things and how it's been manipulated

51:28 Yeah, so a big part of what I do is I look at the history of invention. Right? Especially those things where people were inventing fields or new ideas like computers, cybernetics all this stuff or the helicopter all of these especially highly novel things new kinds of math they always come to people in dreams through visions some of these people were actually practicing spiritualists who went around in those circles their mediums Yeah, all kinds of different hallucinatory hypnagogic different liminal states that people were in. That's where these ideas come from this sort of excessively profound imagination and none of them described it as mechanically working through these things they're just walking through a field one day and then they see equations in front of them the periodic table the whole thing comes to them in a dream

52:25 And then like they'll have another dream down the road when they're working on it that sort of updates it as well. They behave just like transmissions so the idea that our thoughts are sort of originating inside the brain and all of that none of the people that created the world. That we live in right now you know all the thinkers the philosophers engineers from the renaissance up until a hundred years ago none of them thought these ideas just exist in their brain and they were sort of chewing through them mechanically so once you realize that there's this process that's happening where people are sort of concretizing their mental bodies, and you see that it's having this certain kind of effect on them. You look at Descartes and you look at Hume, you look at these philosophers, and you see them describing the states they're having the somatic effects on them where they're falling into melancholy and they're falling into delirium derealization that's what they're describing right? That's what they're dealing with. They're basically cutting themselves off

53:28 from the source, from the system of ideation that makes itself manifest through man. I think it's what's at heart of the problem with identity that we have now It's what's at the center of it The concretization of thought and thinking like this is all happening inside me This is my reality So in order to develop my reality My ideas need to progress They need to be developing all the time I have to sort of transgress on what came before in order for me to be real. Because, I can't just take the ideas of the ancients as my own because then i don't have an identity. I have no other way to assert myself in reality other than through transgressing you know taking the things that agents said and

54:17 reversing them or mixing them up, amalgamating them into different things. You have to really mechanically force these things into other shapes you get to really transgress upon the past or erase it or rewrite in order to feel real and so I think this is the very basic engine of all of the weird identity problems that we've been having for the past year and also if techno progressivism itself the post hoc rationalization of this accelerated feverish mental processing that we're all doing just thinking all the time, taking possession of these thoughts as if they are our own. If you think about the body metabolism being overworked it's the same thing with the cycle metabolism is this feverish delusional delirium that people learn

55:07 Yeah and i just some of the stuff you say about disney is just so true and. I know people who have gotten engaged or even married at a disney park and it's so silly for adults and, i've taken my kid to disney now that i live in florida and you know these kind of fun to see them see the characters in this not yet on one hand then you like to see your get happy on On the other hand but you look around and you do see the adults there and it's just like you didn't bring a kid and it's like these are. Oftentimes obese sexless childless adult living in consumer is on and as you mentioned earlier you have to relate to each other through that disney brand and its chest so insane but,

56:01 It's like they are mk ultra captured by something that is real this mechanism that is real this calling that is real, that it just been completely. plastered over by the disney brand and that's why people get so obsessive about it and then they bought other things like the comic books, you know they bought marvel than a buy the other big heroes journey met star wars universe now it's all one big thing. And there just three different coats of paint on me exact same capturing of the imagination i mean that even that doesn't sell it you know what's capturing the imagination yeah they say that but thats like way deeper i think then people are recognizing. I think you know william blake says the imagination is the eternal body of man so when u captured the imagination, your capture a man at level that sort of a on external level archetypal level

57:00 Imagination just isn't for thinking about cool paper airplanes that you can make or whatever. It's also this engine for realizing, self-realizing yourself like taking the images your ideals and producing them in the world so in that sense what is eternal about man is always going to be his imagination so if you capture that you can do all kinds of things to people it isn't just this mundane thing If you say, this book captured my imagination. You should be careful about that. It should be something that we want to shape you. You should be able to say okay I consent to this author. I think he's got good intentions like somebody like Tolkien. You say okay he's got good intention for me. I'll allow him to capture my imagination and all live in his realm of subcreation for a while or part of me will for my whole lifetime

57:57 And that's something that is desirable and I want. You should do it willingly, not just have it thrust upon you or... And I've seen people do this with their kids they'll just use Disney as a babysitter or they'll use the television in general as a babysitter and those kids always end up really weird! And I have noticed there's a lot of overlap between As far as the behaviors and the way that it manifests in between the sort of identity politics people and the adult Disney crowd, they both behave and interact and interrelate in almost exactly the same way. And there's a lot of like you said their sexless...and if you look at the sexlessness that is really what's behind a lot of the gender dysphoria they don't have this

58:48 instinctual feeling of being one gender or the other, one sex or the other. They're confused about it they're non-binary they have all these different paraphilias and delirium like a sexual delirium is what that is and its the same process It's just sort of been branded by disney if that makes sense yeah you say disney wants to be the alpha groomer who initiates the young and the castration called because, the transgender throw is the idealized form of a lifelong customer every single dimension of its being made legible to surveillance and commoditize. The cybernetic impulse is in their dna as inheritors of the world's fair tradition

59:32 Yeah i think that there's definitely something to that but also want to mention this so you were talking about permission you're talking about even when absorbing fiction written or on the screen. If it captures your imagination you should have a little bit of say in that and be careful what you let in well that's another parallel to. The paranormal dad this point u right in the best documented poltergeist case the entity always requires permission enter, it often wants to be part of the family order enter into a dollhouse because they can only interact with the medium of the participants imagination

1:00:09 It first gathers attention by playing small tricks, turning the house into a concession of the surreal. It sets up a goblin market offering ever more hyper sensational artifacts gathering the currency of petrification as the audience secretly thrills at its strange wares and once solid enough to shake the air it presents itself to the children of the house as an imaginary friend who whispers I come from this funny place This is how it stages itself and takes form. The phantom is essentially a condensation of the abyss, the outside leaking into this world but this vile osmosis and resulting erosion or warping of materials are always the result of human action and permission. Man gives foolish permissions when he abuses his intuition." I love it! That's basically in a nutshell. Yeah exactly and I think that blunting of intuition

1:01:05 can happen very early and it could happen later on in life. Like if you get addicted to social media, right? And you start getting a lot of feedback from that they call it psychic numbing right? You can blunt your intuition there as well and that can lead to other problems later on in life but for children is especially cruel to introduce them to things that blunt their intuition It's kind of how people eat food this is the perfect analogy for it You have the regular form of things and you have the slop form. You think of your metabolism and you feed your kids McDonald's every day, and it does things to their metabolism they end up with childhood diabetes or they end up fat and having all kinds of other emotional problems It is the same thing with a psychometabolism with your mental metabolism there is reason why people say that you consume media because it does have this very similar effect

1:01:55 Yeah, I like the analogy but it's a little harder to pin down what is the non-slop version of good food for the psychometabolism. Oh yeah! It would just be like your traditional fairy stories for kids before they were sentimentalized get them in their purest form as pure as you can that would be The Brothers Grimm or anything before the 19th century if you can find that sometimes these things are hard to find and you have to go into Like doctorate level studies and look at their references and see where they're getting these things from. Where they're getting the original folklore tales from because if you search for these things, the search return is going to give you the most recent version

1:02:39 So yeah, you do have to kind of be selective and be careful with those things. So why is the older version better? I get some of what you're saying which is like the sense of danger, the fuller spectrum of human experience is more encoded in those original stories like Hansel and Gretel a non-sanitized version they can be quite alarming and grotesque at times but your teaching kids about real dangers and death as a real danger that exists in your life and some people want to hurt you, and we're not going to sugar coat that. We're gonna tell it to you straight." I do see benefits to that but are we just romanticizing say the Brothers Grimm because they're older? Like they come from a more raw reality overall so they are kind of a product of their time but it just seems like more fiction just at a different time depth. That's a good point! You're absolutely right

1:03:37 The best thing to do is to send them outside to play. Let them experience the full range of probabilities on their own, have those experiences straight from their own fantasy worlds that they create out in the forest building a tree house you know maybe there's a haunted house and poke around over there, the haunted house in the neighborhood and have those experiences directly rather than have them mediated at all. Even from the Brothers Grimm that's absolutely correct it's better to get it straight from the source from their life. Fair enough well As always man, had a really great time. Wish we could have gone deeper into the Doppelganger post but man when we did this initially I think it was eight posts were trying to get through today it's like three because they are so deep and so long I never know with the Schwab post is this something I can read in the next 10 minutes or do I need a couple days to get through this thing? That's the fun of it really! I don't want to conflate myself with Lynch but sometimes you know I just wanna push as far as I can

1:04:41 But I have decided with some of the newer ones that i'm going to break them up into two or three parts and then just release them a few days. to be a bit more kind to people. Well, I do enjoy your writing so much! I feel lucky that we get to do these interviews and it is about that time...I guess remind people where to follow your work and anything you want to tell them about that you're going to be working on next? So i'm on Substack, schwabstack.substack.com And I'm on Twitter at RealHumanSchwab Right now, well I'm thinking about starting a forum for writers. But I'm also working on my writing as well. I just put out another article...I'm not doing a good job of selling right now. I'm looking more into the Renaissance and Francis Bacon and how they created modernity so the actual you know when you asked me before what is the source of all this stuff?

1:05:46 how it began, essentially how these systems were created and how they used fiction to do that. I discovered that Francis Bacon developed a system for the creation of these para-fictional counter fables and he was trying to reset cultural memory and how he went about that with his various works in writings so that for me is really important i'm working on that it's going to be a three part series then putting out I already released the first one. It's up right now. I love it! I look forward to getting into that for sure because it is an important piece of the puzzle, but thanks again man we talked about some kind of complex stuff but I hope we stuck the landing for people and made some sense but take care out there and stay out of the goblin markets. I'll try alright have a good night And there we go another in the can from the man they call Schwab

1:06:40 I always know my live reading abilities are going to be pushed to the max when reading wordy Schwab quotes and feel like I stumbled through more of it than usual but we'll all be okay. I do really like the Goblin Market's framing for shallow empty consumerism, the bastardization and commercializing of myth because it does feel manipulative There's a visceral, deep relationship between man and myth. And I really do believe it is a huge part of their success. I like that Schwab got into the way the company operated and how brutal they were to their employees under a protective blanket of PR that hid those unfortunate working conditions

1:07:29 But that just tells you that Walt and the company never really cared about people or the employees would have been included in that. Now, did it get a little thorny in The Plus Show? Maybe a little based as the kids say! Well no doubt about that and I have mixed feelings on some of that stuff because I personally know two guys who had really tough times being gay in high school...and probably grade school And one went on to be a Disney animator and the other went on to be a figure skater in Disney productions. I think, well what else is out there for them? Where should they want to express themselves creatively? To me it makes sense that they would be drawn to those kinds of careers and it has nothing to do with trying to groom or influence kids at all!

1:08:16 Also, just because I know a couple of guys who never wanted to groom kids and worked for the Disney corporation doesn't mean it has anything to do with other people's motivations for working there. I guess I just wouldn't want it to look like I'm assuming all gay people who work for Disney are trying to groom kids nor would I want it to look like... It's not possible that some are! It's nuanced you got to judge each individual on the merits of their actions right? That said though, everyone puts themselves into their creative work so that in and of itself I can't really fault anyone for. Making creative works for children does become a gray area and it's also worth looking at where Disney ended up today and walking back through their history and asking yeah where were some of the inflection points? I don't know i'm trying to be diplomatic here maybe to my own detriment

1:09:12 So let's just move on to less controversial things that I would say were highlights. Really good stuff regarding the MKUltra-like techniques of a paranormal encounter, or maybe the MKUltra structure of an encounter? I think he's really hitting the nail on the head in some of those sections And even the material we started with, Shirley Temple and the lesser known Mary Pickfort. Yeah it's pretty clear they were abused but I think Schwab hits on an important nuance there too that it was an impish trickster quality that framed at all in effort to put these girls in a liminal space between child and adult to make them seem like adults but also children

1:09:55 Similar to pageant mom stuff or like the girl who gets a charge out of being jailbait and enjoys it, the temptress archetype. I'm not saying these kids are developed enough to know what's going on. I'm just saying that it seems like the ways the adults around them tried to frame it all up is somewhere in that realm. I mean giving her adult teeth? That is so disturbing to me! I know I brought it up more than once If you've ever known anyone who's gotten veneers, it's not a fun process. They're chiseling away your teeth to put on porcelain caps! I don't know how far this went with Shirley Temple but yikes the black box story is also insane

1:10:37 And funny enough, since recording this there was a clip of Shirley Temple on Larry King live. That's been going around and I heard that and I want to play parts of it here. I'm going to play two quick clips from a 30 minute interview recorded probably in the early nineties. The audio quality is terrible but first this one is about the money listen to this You were making $10,000 a week during the depression right? I guess. Did you...you had no comprehension of this? No. Were they did they put it all away for you well? Was it well handled so that you never had to worry about...? Well, It was fine until I was 22 and I asked my dad and his business partner. I said, you know, I was 21 and I didn't get the money. I'm 22 where's the money?

1:11:23 And they hemmed and hawed, and it was a two-and-a-half hour meeting in our house. And finally I said give me bottom line what do i have? Well they said out of the three million four hundred thousand or so that I'd earned I had forty four thousand dollars in my trust fund that was it! That was a shock. Were you ticked? No I think I would have paid the studio for the privilege of working and I think I did Truly pimping out your kid and stealing their income. So fucked up! Now this part she dances around some pretty unsavory stuff here you go How did you not grow up affected and whacked out? Many child stars are wha- I mean, whacked out there ain't a better term for it You're right. I think anything you start at age three

1:12:18 seems very normal. I thought everybody worked, I didn't realize in the depression that a lot of people weren't but i just felt it was a normal kind of thing and the thing that people won't know when I would finish my work at the studio in the little puff sleeves and the little clean dress I'd go home put on the jeans and the T-shirt and climb trees and play with the neighborhood gang and I was a tomboy I love to play cops and robbers, and you know all that stuff. But how about producers and directors in all the stories we've heard about hey kid well being famous just being famous at that? One guy when i left Foxx I went to MGM for one picture thank goodness only one And when I got there with my mother We were separated she went into the office of Louis B Mayer and I went into the office of Arthur Fried

1:13:11 and he was going to talk to me about a movie that he wanted to put in. I'm 12 years old, you know? And I thought he was a producer but instead he was an exhibitor. And...I'd never seen anyone naked before except myself so i had no clue about what was happening So it struck me as funny I laughed at him and I laughed uproariously! I had tears, you know? He got infuriated and said out out out go What did you tell your mother? Well, I went down. It was very quiet. I went down and met her in the lobby of the administration building She came up very quietly from Louis B Mayer's office And we walked hand-in-hand silently to the car which was unusual We got in a car driving home I said mom You won't believe what happened to me and I told her what happened and she got kind of quiet She said well, you don't know what happened to me

1:14:10 And Louis B. Mayer wasn't as bad as Freed was to me, but he came on to my mother and so we both decided that we didn't like MGM much it was better at Fox Man, so gross to hear Larry King laughing at that. But she laughed too and people laugh when they're uncomfortable but she names a name of someone who exposed himself to her and it could have easily gone another way if she didn't laugh in that moment And then she tells her mom and her mom says yeah well you don't know what happened to me Are you crazy lady? You're an adult This is your kid It isn't about you! And your kid didn't volunteer to be in that office You dragged her there

1:14:54 Adult Shirley Temple is really great about saying how much she liked to work, but that's a kid playing pretend and getting a lot of attention for it. She really didn't know any better and who knows how bad it really got? But that is the show follow Schwab on Twitter and sub stack if you enjoy these interviews and you like some of the quotes, he'd probably like his larger pieces too I think this is interview number four now But sign up for PLUS to get the second hour of all of them and a whole lot more. In this PLUS show, we covered a lot more about Disney like I mentioned and other good stuff...I mean it's the whole second half for crying out loud! You know how it works there is a lot of material in there. Signup for PLUS and get more of what you like access to the full archive and feel good supporting this truly independent show without any interruptions in interviews or conflicts of interest overall

1:15:48 It's a rare thing these days. As well as Tolkien's thoughts on how Disney's material and products are way different than his own. Etc, etc... All good stuff for the psycho metabolism! Come on in and eat! In higher side news not a lot to add again the event went great the audio for it should be up in the plus feed soon And the video will be on the members bonus page probably not until April after my friends leave for this big RV bash

1:16:35 But I'll let you know. As for the rating of the last show, it didn't hit the high heights of Wayne McCrory's 4.9 but Monica Perez got a four point five from the plus people and that's not too shabby either get in there hear the full show engage in the comments rate the episodes use the guest request forum It's only eight bucks a month and it all makes my world go round links right there at the top of the show notes You're already right there Okay, the meetup calendar. Here are the upcoming events we got March 22nd book trader cafe and New Haven Connecticut also March 22nd Elko Nevada at the 7018 brewery march 26th at Dove Creek Colorado bangers bar and pizza march 29th Chish and Phipps kiosk in Sydney Australia March 31st Auckland New Zealand at Gail Brath's ale house

1:17:34 And nothing yet on the calendar for April. So get in there higher side meetups.com for more info or to RSVP, or make your own local event why wait? The world is only going to get crazier but that is the show thanks to Schwab as always thanks for listening and I will see you next time. I've done my part your move Hollywood creeps impish tricksters and goblin market merchants your fucking From space it was falling, its light started calling It's making crop circles again Just as I was looking up it showed me all the hidden stuff And now I'm all enlightened and zen Nothing masses is hard Silver ship circling Now I'm not asleep Don't know where the elite got a leap To the how I start to wonder

1:18:40 Got a beam to the head Now we start to wonder Of corruption and crime Since the visitors set me straight I encourage you to go When you see the saucers glow up away The masses is hard Silver ships they are Now were not asleep Don't elite, got a beam to the head

1:19:28 No we start to wonder, no we're not the sheep that they feed. No we start to wonder! We'll see these things up in the sky just as the system starts to die. All's faded and makes your belly rake it's time we had our place. Cause were NOT the sheep that they feed

1:20:27 Now we start to wonder, now we're not asleep cause' we got THC. And now we start to wonder, now we start to wonder, now we start to wonder, now we start to wander again.