Peter Jenx | The Thai Occult, Spirits, Leklai, & The Ajarns

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00:51 Which means you'll unfortunately never hear my voice again. The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan There's clearly maybe something there beyond the realm of man Until we've thoroughly tested every last close-chested view Find the more ya think, ya know Unless you really do

01:28 Where would we be without THC? We know the lying to us just don't know to what degree. Where would we be without THC? The highest side-chat show. Greg Carlwood and company. Alright, Hiresight Chatters. So much of what we seek to do is to unravel the damage done by those shadowy puppet masters in the nefarious power pyramid and resurrect the knowledge lost from the Empire's steamroll And from where many of us are sitting squarely in the Western world I like to think that despite the flippant attitudes towards these past sins and mainstream ignorance when it comes to importance of these paradigms We see a lot of this knowledge as valuable insight into tools and techniques we can use to interact with our reality In ways that have been denied to us

02:26 But the Western world is not the whole world and there are places where occult and magical traditions still live and thrive. And the modern age has created opportunities to learn about these pockets, and from these people who have safeguarded and maintained their magical toolboxes going back further than we even know. Well color me interested because I see no reason that reality's blueprints should only be reserved for power hungry secret orders, the capstone cabal or the wizards of marketing magic And thankfully, due to the work of today's guests, the preserved knowledge of the Thai occult is now accessible to the wider world. His name is Peter Janks and he has spent years immersed in Thai culture met and studied with over a dozen leaders in Thai magic and has worked carefully with them to bring this knowledge out from this corner of the world to the magical main stage

03:12 He joins us on the heels of his third volume in the Thai Occult series, a 500-plus page book filled with insights interviews and full color images that really bring these esoteric traditions to life. A worthy effort towards a noble goal, a modern day Johnny Appleseed of the magical ways and the Thai occult guy himself Janks my man! Welcome to The Higher Side That was quite an introduction, Greg. Thank you very much! I try man, i try but i am really excited for this. This is such a well-crafted book full of fascinating things really kind of like the quintessential textbook on the occult underbelly of Thailand – the rituals, the history, the magicians themselves

03:52 And I've been hearing you pop up occasionally on RuneSoup going back at least a year or so, which is always really enjoyable too. But for people who aren't familiar tell us about how the occult has been part of your life and what it is about the Thai Occult that drew you in on such a deep level because it's such an interesting niche for a person to end up in I don't think i've had any choice in the matter to be honest with you. You know, sure you have many guests who say similar things where, you know that my experience natural magic as a child and i'm sure most people do without actually labeling it as such and you know i am 56 so when i was a child the world was little quieter than is now. And first coming to Thailand in 1991

04:44 Everything just fit there was like coming home and everything can slowly went into place i started to realize why all my friends were rich or interested in various arts and. I started to see nature in a completely different way it's starting to see the magical quality of nature, add also say the level of dedication that people have here towards spirituality really and there was also a recent thing in the paper that Tarabans one of the most spiritual nations in the world. And it's done is such quiet way, its apart of life and when I started investigating the taricot which took me years to get into it because this many levels as many layers of this stuff you know those the stuff you can find out on the internet

05:40 this is the stuff you can see copies of around bangkok it was a very slow process to learn how to get through all the surface, really before i could actually get to some of them or real knowledge and when they started to access some of that knowledge became very apparent. most of the stuff available that i'd actually tried to research was off the mark. And there is no single book dedicated to this subject, there are single books dedicated to the system which is part of the magical system and read a magical tattoos but there's nothing specifically on

06:24 the title practices themselves so i undertook the first book about three years ago. And it was a book to reference everything trying to find out what we could reference what could be proven and then kind of annotate what, when you at that point which is why i can't read that book now just drives me insane because he's so loose but by doing that book it did its job which i understood before i did it whereby if i could go to see the adjacent and say some of the magical people improve. That's how could release books officially there be more likely to help understand this system and that's exactly what happened without those first few bucks i couldn't have done this book

07:17 This is the one i'm not doing it again. Really hard work, i believe that but i don't think i need to do this is the benchmark this is the bench mark that i wanted to achieve you and since its been made only two words i want to change in which is unusual for an author presume before did they So that was the ideal and because they're john's could see what we done before i didn't interviewed a few of them for this. They were on board and they could tell me why wanted to hear you could tell me the story but they cannot of course pass on, the understanding of how to create these things step by step.

08:12 So there's a real balance there and different agendas could relay different amounts of information. Well, I am sure it's been a hell of a journey and I always say progress not perfection. A lot of people have goals and ideas in their head and they never actually get them out because they're so worried about them being perfect. They don't have to be perfect the first time you can get something out refine it and keep going. Thank God for that cause that first book I can't read it now! That's how you know your progress. It's loose but its been very interesting watching that progress

08:48 And yeah, you've got to make the mistakes. You have to make the mistakes. Yeah? You gotta stick your neck out sometimes. You gotta put your hand up and say well that's completely rubbish now. Because otherwise how are we ever going to understand something that's so esoteric we can't find a way in. Yes indeed! It's impossible otherwise so it just having the bravery to fuck up really. Do you say do you say a bravery i know quite well and you know you mentioned this term adjarns and obviously that determines gonna be new to people tell us about these magical masters and kind of the relationship you formed with them through the process of making this book

09:30 What is the translates directly as teacher and actually many teachers are cold in a job there also called the crew which is another form of teacher, how does different levels to these things that john's basically in the region nine living now it should not be tired. I'm most of the jams in the book from the channel my area I am the adjourn here pretty much all be monks before it's part of the land system. The last system is northern thailand got some languages got its own alphabet yeah, i'm they consider you that people have to be among two game attributes necessary to be able to create magic which is basically focus the focus that comes from prolonged daily meditation

10:22 And being shown the correct what we call which are the knowledge of how to create these things in other parts of the country they don't need to be some people just go straight into it there is many levels of being and the job. Most of which actually show by something called the can crew Which is the name of the crew the teacher which is a bit like a degree. For the job and you'll see them in the photographs in the book you see these big pops with loads of weird stuff in there my battle notes,

10:57 They're all different summer wrapped in red summer wrapped in white depending on whether the master is alive or dead so we've got swords stuck in them bottles of whiskey also things, and they show the level of expertise in something and there's different levels of can crew. The top one being the light bad the hundred and eight can't grow which is basically that i don't hold the full wechat of that teacher, what's the full knowledge and you know i've seen these things going on visiting the jones talking to them getting to know them buying things from them understanding what they do. Buying things from them have been able to ask questions about them because then they are more likely to share their knowledge

11:46 You got to understand that a few westerners go to see these people and not just gonna share it with somebody is asking questions you gotta take part in what they do make an effort to go on see them, make an effort to understand the learn the cat are there give me for these items i can't afford to show you difference. I'm just trying to the world without that they're not gonna share anything is just another person coming along wanting something for free. Yeah so this is a bit like you know my old friend used to say, Being in Thailand is a bit like living with millions of wildcats. You have to kind of pull, they use a bit of food to get one to come to you but eventually you can get along very well. There's kind of a coaxing thing going on and they've got to trust ya. Absolutely! With being older that helps here as well I'm sure yes i bet it does

12:45 Well let's also get into a little historical context because we talk on this show about Christian missionaries and the Holy Roman Empire crushing a lot of magical cultures pretty much anywhere they went obviously this place we call the United States is included there. But in the East, even though they've had plenty of violent tyrants of their own. The spreading and adoption of something like Buddhism seems to have been a lot less destructive to the cultural traditions it encountered How do you compare and contrast these two different situations? Well, Buddhism if you look at anywhere in Asia If you look any other system be it in Burma Tibet China Japan Buddhism does not destroy what is there It overlays it

13:30 So in many places especially in this particular region the other regions does not respond correspond to the current map. You know what i mean it's a regional of land is not confined by borders but in this region, the buddhism overlaid very strong traditional form magic and then the end ended up helping get to become what he is today because basically Did not interfere with any of it but what did is that the offered a chance to learn and become more focus, can you offer the chance to bring up protection that was necessary to some of the magic that was here because i love it was really wild. And some of that while magic is still available you can still find out about it's still practice. Some of the cursing system here is absolutely terrible

14:24 to the point where I've actually not put much of it in the book, because it's just wrong to share that knowledge. Right a little irresponsible? Yeah well it's too much and then it would kind of unbalance the actual book itself yeah so you know but the great thing about Buddhism is that it just allows other things to exist which the Christians did not they just burned everybody Right. So to talk a little bit more about spirits and how they're thought about in modern Thai culture, let me quote the book where you say the spirits in Thailand are thought to play

15:07 apart in many different aspects of life and because they are believed to be mischievous and meddlesome, are appeased with offerings and incantations. Thai spirits are known for their fickleness and unpredictability which is due in part to the lack of a hierarchy within their ranks although luckily they are just as easily bribed as the police and politicians." Which you know it's a perfect quote for this audience cause we love that little jab at the system there at the end But these sort of trickster qualities seem to be almost universal, which I think speaks to their validity and their nature wherever you are. What else would you say about the place of spirits in Thai culture today? Okay we had a visitor recently and it was wonderful to get visitors here. And one of them asked my partner Bon do you practice magic? He said well actually my culture is magic

15:59 Everything is magic in this country everything is to do with ghost everything even the names of trees have got magical elements to it, every practice that type people on the take is generally two either play kate or to have the chance to ask a favor. All spirits for girls or anything way up to the bottom It is part of the culture to hopefully gain boon that booing is like good things i come to everybody yeah. Good luck help with marriage help finding a lover popularity all that sort of stuff so you know any visitor to thailand driving down the road in my city tree with dresses hanging it,

16:47 which are offerings to that tree because the spirit of that tree, which is generally a Tachian tree. It's particular type of wood with an associated spirit has granted somebody I wish so they buy it as gift. They gave it something to feel like it is praised and taken care off So it doesn't necessarily start to disturb the people around the shrine or other people who visit Will you drive around like a channel on the way down from one of the mountain temples. This is really bad band which is very typical of the road here and it's covered in a string of spirit houses, which are in every house in every building has a spirit house which is basically to play kate the land spirits you can also use them to ask favors off as for protection of the family

17:43 And actually in the end, some can also act like a praecocip which is a type of amulet in itself. But it's... Praecocip is like the whispering ghost The land spirit if you have a good relationship can whisper to you and let you know when bad things are coming or good things are coming So throughout the culture anywhere you go everywhere there is some sort of spiritual connection And when we were driving past those spirit houses, I said to Bono must come and photograph here. He said no just ignore them otherwise they'll pull you off the cliff. Wow! Yeah so i actually did start a photographic exercise of photographing a lot of the spirit houses and I stopped very quickly it was really not a good thing to do they were really pissed off about because I'd not acquired the correct

18:33 Permission to be able to do it so everything that is done here generally involves placating something or working with something are asking a favor of something, yeah i think that's so fascinating that everybody has the spirit house that was one of my takeaways because you know putting effort into that i mean land is. Limited and space is limited and to make that effort is so far into americans i think but it just speaks to how important it is i guess the mechanism, is that you build a little place for the spirit and use a land spirit you stay there we got this house over here don't mess with us please and will try to appease you in this space.

19:17 It's actually a very complicated subject and it is one of the things that has been of great interest to the West because we have lost that connection to the land generally. I had a question recently from an American lad who was asking me about, a particular policeman who's investigating all these disappearances where people just instantly disappear and there is no reason to suspect foul play or anything else. And he said how would the Thai people view that? And the Thai people would view that you're not placating the spirits of the region because basically everybody was able to do it got killed

19:56 So there's gonna have to be somehow and somewhere a resurrection of the skills to placate land spirits. Because some of them can be astonishingly dangerous, which is why everybody does it here! But the whole process of doing that is either undertaken by a monk or undertaken by an Ajaan We are actually gonna be hopefully building our own house here over the next year and i'm going to document that process and try and get as much information about it is possible because it is all particular interest of people.

20:33 Generally they will bless the first post that goes into the land position of the spirit house has to be chosen by somebody who knows what they are doing. I'm day then, that same a john or monk and i'll be using it answer is one of your jobs in the book because he was among for eighteen years well positioning correctly that's very how correctly and basically persuade the spirits to go into that house and be located. I have offerings made to them by the people who live on the land, i'm not usually mean in the morning you take out of food but it's nice you got left over, turn some incense or what is the three stakes because of the relationship to the budget the three gems and you pray spirit house

21:26 Can you get offering and then basically all the birds come down all the apps can open everything that's on there so everything kind of recycle package nature but the whole process of this. I really need to write down because i think most of the west we have lost this i'm sure we used to have it reduced to have this information There used to be a system of being able to do it. It's been lost and I need find the correct situation where, i'm not sure the knowledge basic story of how to do it. And that's one of the aims for the next year and probably you could use that as an appendix to this book is a PDF or am i just stick it online don't know if depends what we can find out depends how deep the information goes

22:18 But it's something that I really think we need to kind of resurrect in the West. And that would be one reason for doing this, is such an ancient system bits of this system can act like a sticking plaster and all the big wounds have been taken out or the damage has been done to our systems. There is nothing wrong with basically reinventing or giving antibiotics to our system takeout All the things that have been lost and put some health back into it and the process of change with all magic is essential isn't it. So if we can refresh our system, our systems sorry of magic and that can be myriad there's a chance that we could have a better relationship to the world which is sorely needed

23:06 It is and that's really interesting you brought up that work i believe that the missing for one one word from david polite as he's been a previous guest here and that stuff it so fascinating because its people going missing in national parks generally, add if they are found at all it's in very odd circumstances not where they were supposed to be or way up a mountain. And it is strange and Americans just don't have a box to put that in. People are thinking, oh is it aliens? Is it Bigfoot but in Thailand It's pretty well established that yes spirits in the forest can kill you or take you Remember the football team in The Cave Oh yeah! The boys caught in cave Yes Yeah the boys got lost in the cave with him maybe they're on Ellen DeGeneres loved seeing them on there as well They obviously having their great time and they deserve it They did very well those lads

23:57 What basically for them to get out that case took the life of a diver and it was almost the tires so that is what's the price i can offer an exchange like an exchange, hey wasn't intentional exchange but the cave spirit that took the life of a diver and not caves spirit was then. Basically thank after which offerings were made to back cave spirits In the hope that they will play kate's and some of the caves here. Man they are very very old indeed have extremely strong spirits associated with them there is one cave to the northeast of china, i actually don't take people to it's too weird how much can you do not go this week got a good grade your photographic graveyard ceremony i dont take people to a cave so

24:54 It's bigger than we think it is with nature. Now you really speak in my language to because i have a really strange interest in caves mainly cuz i love the lower of inner earth realms and cave systems obviously play apart that, i am kinda curious if this is ever come up your conversations with the adjorn because thailand sits sort of amongst india and tibet where i have heard a lot of inner earth type of talk anything like that ever get mentioned in their lore anything. Well it's kind of the times don't like going on the ground in general they don't have mine is that you don't like it. Hey will go into a cave but in all the caves there was generally a buddy trying to try and control what is in there wow and there is a,

25:46 Hey where did you not talk about it because in case it's listening they just go and they will give offerings to the butterscotch order low c shrine or, this is not good in some cases no statues like big dragon statues caves. And they are there for a very specific reason and most of the caves also used at some point forward prolonged meditation practice in perfect silence. I mean that's gonna come out to be special person if i go in meditating for weeks and months because some of those one cave that really freaks me out, can you use these things

26:34 I will only take very special people. So if you come, Greg, I'll take you to it and you'll see what I mean." All right all right! There's an invite for ya! I love it, I love it! And I was gonna ask about this mysterious leek-ly substance that can't seem to be translated directly... It comes from caves in the forest, got this greenish hue and is kind of like a stone but isn't? What is the deal with that stuff?! To be honest, I've still not gotten to the bottom of it Like light is one of those substances that has become terribly misunderstood misrepresented and there's too many fakes and there's too many versions of it and there's too many times like i, anyone to be sure nobody will give a definitive interview on this subject but in the book there is an interview with jampi at city.

27:29 Who is one of the very few people who will insert like lying to the body and his leg feels like a forest it feels like a jungle is from the fewer like i have ever held on so actually yeah i get that. Roll the new just being a magnetic stone which we have in the west it's not just that. It's something much much much deeper but there is no agenda will interview about like why because they have precepts and i have to avoid lying so they will not give a definitive answer to let fly even if you are sitting who

28:12 Insert let's play into the body he has to source it from a master i said what would you interview me said no. So i can't get to the bottom of like, which is one other things that people are very interested in but basically it is inserted into the body to balance the four elements within your room. Also help personal protection I can't get any further it's meant to flow to protect. In the body floater anywhere where somebody might shoot you or trying stabbya and to protect the body but its main purpose for a chance is to balance four elements of their window fire

28:56 Or as they say in Thailand, Dinnamlom Phae which is Earth Water Wind and Fire. That's how they pronounce it here. Well I thought that was one of the most fascinating parts of the book just because it is this mysterious substance that is apparently natural made in caves and requires a master to kind of find it and seek it out And I just think that kinda stuff is provocative Yeah but there's also this thing whereby there are legends whereby people coaxed it out Hey rufus the roots of cave and it's meant to drip down like plastic most of the ads i don't think that's what which is the english vernacular for saying this rubbish. There is no evidence that occurs at all, add all these things while when i'm doing you can photograph etc just makes it very suspicious towards

29:51 Coaxing like light out of rock right but it is something that is like light that is real life what we have to be extremely careful and keep a very open mind. That's too what is itself because if the adjourns will not comment on it there was a very good reason for it, So one day I hope to get to the bottom of it. But at the moment, I've only found one guy with leg li that I trust and he because it just feels suitably spiritually odd. What about amulets made of it or putting it in an amulet rather than under the skin? Is that ever done? Does that serve a purpose? Well, amulets...I mean there's been some great amulets made from like lying inverted commas

30:39 generally Buddhist, but generally they are like magnetic materials. Now magnetism is used in amulets all over the world and my suspicion is that it's kind of been added to the system I mean its very beneficial to wear something magnetic The blessing that the Ajaan can give will be held by the magnetism within the stone because of the metal element within it But I personally am suspicious towards it. Gotcha so something you said in your interview with gordon recently stuck out to me and i have been itching to have your elaborate but you mentioned that all the politicians in thailand use magic often pretty dark stuff. And i'm always interested in the intersection between magic and power wealthy politicians are royal families whatever what can tell us about magic amongst the tie elite

31:41 Well first we don't know fully okay because nobody has access to it right but the two strata of the society that practice magic are very poor and rich because if you think about it they're both very insecure. In many ways in a what's the backup their life using magic, in times of trouble in time to political trouble in times of political strife in times of What is the even in times of peace the higher rest your lungs use magic the royal family basically has the call on the top monks in the country for a start off. Which is phenomenal amounts power and that's it so.

32:25 Now when we had all the political problems people basically tried to acquire more magical power to be able to give them the boost to be able to win their calls there is very famous example, i hope you don't get in trouble for all this is a very famous example of mr taxing tried. Who remake the error one shrine which is on major intersection in bangkok most popular shrines in bank Basically to attempt to redirect the spiritual energy of people praying there too him and people some of his opponents out. And they managed to stop in doing it that side of the political divide use an enormous amount of cursing magic trying achieve their goals

33:20 To the park where i like to head of the army was complaining about being cursed and say look can you stop it have got enough protection. I know what are you doing yeah it's thrown around some of the top of jones off this current generation, one in particular is now becoming less and less accessible because he has been used more and more by the political elite But having a guy on your side who has got the power to influence other people can be an extremely helpful tool in your goals and in life. I'd say, that quote I had read mentioned a lack of hierarchy amongst these spirits but there are different classes of spirits and classifications of ghosts right? Can you flesh that out for us how do they look at this spirit world pantheon

34:15 Well if you can relate it directly to an alter, what's your title i'm gonna answer in a very different way than we did not okay so you can relate it. I read the two titles on the lowest level of your ghosts now not all goes star represented entire amulet thousands of types of girls here So this is not named people this is not the ghost of people these are ghosts types including the pretzel which is like a hungry ghost. The question which is represented as a floating head ahead floating around with intestines and they said there's millions of them everywhere

34:58 But they are not represented in the amulet system. The amulet system tends to have the lowest level for the ghosts of people who have died in a supernatural way, called pri-deaths. Pri is human material and the pri-death basically lends a supernatural quality Physical materials and the price basically create a repeat i think long ghost or a pita home is a woman who dies while pregnant they are one of the strongest forms of. Medical power available in this country and a good example would be mad at me that is

35:42 millions of films about her the story about in the box is talent most famous girls. Absolutely terrifying if you're ever in bangkok go and see your shoes up what's my apple, i need to on the bts station annual say what i mean that's the Quality of a lady who died while pregnant so this to go there and is the protective elements of the mother as well as the destructive element for having died. Add these girls hang around because they've died before their time they are stuck in the underworld, that's the other classification is the pete i hope you somebody died violently

36:25 accidents being shot or died by suicide of which drowning is the best one for power itself you also get them where someone's been struck by lightning which is another amazing source of power. And these are very malevolent girls that angry and they're stuck again because the tires consider it terrible karma to die before your time in such a manner To the point where i open to modern times people of both of those classifications were buried in graveyard rather than created. Which is very helpful to be a job because then you can pop along and chop it off from the book but that practice isn't stopped about fifteen years ago

37:12 So all these girls are then used can be used to bring supernaturally positive attributes into life. Generally attracting well protection attracting partners attracting people and the magical properties of reflection of what each culture kind of needs you know the need of the people Will the girls you have the day it is the date is include make a lady with her legs open and bring i'm going to compare as well, even if they have girls associated with them today it is all the important thing.

37:52 The day it is our praise the different way there are two higher level. There's slightly less while the more sustained and they can bring great boom to life but you have your mercy, which i like the reason of old the indian sages who came to this country many thousands of years ago. And a kind of access the conduits to the gods and if the jones Get them to work through them to bring power to whatever they are trying to construct magically above that you have all your buddy saying she had important monks and the very top you have. So there is a whole hierarchy of ghosts and all day it is and how you being some gods

38:43 That's the tires are aware of a label single level when they use them either to bring beneficial things to their life. Either to banish black magic or be able to cope with my love and spirits or just keep things under control So let me ask you to elaborate maybe on Thai attitudes towards death because some of these rituals and amulets that you write about do involve human tissue like you mentioned, and it can seem a bit shocking or grim but maybe that's just our own cultural residue or something. Well not anymore because I'm, y'know...

39:20 Sabrina the witch, they were baking babies. I think it's okay now to talk about these things, it has been on Sabrina. Fair enough! The blood gates are open. Exactly exactly, I was very chuffed to see that, I was really pleased It is a difficult thing for us to get over but it is seen as a supernatural source of power No same as a kid dying way before their time anybody who dies before the time. Can lend supernatural power this also the supernatural power of nature and attitudes of course changing in our town is now modern country, no bringing all sorts of laws then access to these bodies is getting less and less it's even difficult to get the shroud that cover people who died in accidents are so useful

40:12 And you know, eventually in time it is lessening already quite shockingly quickly. So you know the coverage basically is the skills of other former magic is coming out there using less of the materials because people also don't necessarily want to wear a chunk of somebody's school when going out to cafe. You know it just changing society they're going to keep those things and people will still produce them but perhaps producing in different way as far as the relationship death goes it's just part life It's buddhist. That is what i was gonna ask you though because with these amulets it seems kind of dark like you have a piece of a person's body and its connected to their spirit but is this what is the relationship there because it seems almost like

41:02 Like I'd be pretty pissed off if i died and somebody took a piece of my skull and put it in an ambulance now. I'm like bound to them or some kind of slave situation is there a relationship that's more reciprocal when you have a piece of the person's body in an ambulance? Yes, there is the relationship is that they get a chance to feel life and also they are paid for any favors given with merit Merit is gained through good actions the simplest of which is like giving to charity or being really helpful to somebody. I'm married that buddhist ties consider that marriage how they can start the climb together out of hell, now to the lower regions because all these types of girls are stuck

41:51 I like which is people find really difficult in the west because it's a child to go to these girls stuck in the underworld terrifying so, it's considered an active matter and away. Which is loving kindness to help these things now you can see this is better than excuse for using your goals are getting a girl to do favors for you But in time it is possible that some of them will reincarnate although there are beliefs around like a suicide victim will not be able to reincarnated, release what should have been the natural life span so they might be stuck for sixty years or longer and if they can acquire the marriage baby boy they can be reborn.

42:47 Now there's also two aspects that you have to consider from the two prevalent systems here, the central tie system using the comscript, the Cambodian script and the northern lanaa system. In lanaa they tend to use the actual ghost of the person that died in the central tie system They have the ability through certain meditative practices to create a new ghost. So first they will get the girls that's in the materials to move on, yeah it's called bank second day which is where they help them pass all and then they create a new spirit within that amulet within my human material

43:43 And it's a combination of, I don't know the full details but it's done using a combination of 32 parts with the body meditation and various kata and the four elements. Now I have a lot chance to compare the feeling of these two things, the two different ways of creating it. It all basically depends on the ajahn who has made it but often as Ajahn Apichai said You know you might get a spirit that's just got some ugly bitter old man in it, but you don't want that hanging around your neck. So we get him to move on and we put something in that has basically been created by the Ajaan That can be extremely helpful so depending on who stole your human materials Greg they would do it one of two ways

44:35 Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed, so whatever you do don't die by violent accident. That's a high stakes game! It sure is I tell ya. That's life though. So yeah You also write in the book how some of these amulets can sometimes be too powerful for the wearer and in another interview I heard you give a great analogy where you equate it to a scooter versus a big motorcycle they both work but if you get a bike that's too big for you to handle you're gonna have a bad time Yeah well it can be difficult to me everybody does it everybody ends up getting something at some point where you think jesus christ what we got my neck, actually ways on the chest sometimes feel like heat coming from it. You can sometimes feel definite weight on the chest it could restrict the breathing and we've all done it generally is not too extreme

45:30 I had a raffle from my favorite mom and poppy that i need to be two months to wear it all day. I know the piece of coconut with rahul cars on the front. Yeah so but please also seen as an ability as a period of growth, Whereby we have to kind of adapt to it with same work at a more than mantra and just basically raise our own. Sensitivity to these things and rise to meet you can be seen as one of the ways to rise as far as i don't know what is go so

46:09 The problem in the west is that you know we'll see something and we often go straight to the top of the tree let's get a new crocs foot yeah, oh lord. Let's get no junk really violent ghosts like arm or something you know i'm worried about me what ends weekend overstep the mark we can try and go little too far too quickly What is generally recommended as it isn't the second to two system is that you start off with something but has some sort of buddhist control and then you can drift more towards the other side. I mean this morning round my neck i've got two amulets for example, both of which are all special wishes a wonderful thing about buying and selling these things one of them is actually the scrapings from the school of my favorite mom popping up

47:04 So i've got his flesh around my neck and the feeling is just astonishing and he left his body for the use of these things by the way. He was not hypocritical anyway it was famous for his prime materials, can you just let this body to be used by the temple to sustain the temple on the other one of god's actually not trying but it was made by a ghost age from about seventy years ago When a month cold my home got a very good looking man and they do go up pete i think one guy body that's all the body of lady you died pregnant, add the man behind her help the hands of the corpse mixed what is called the sea punk which is like a bomb.

47:54 So it was made by the ghost. Wow! So I actually don't have a ghost around my neck, I have something that was made by a ghost and the feeling is very different and i have the actual flesh of a very important monk so I'm extremely lucky with these things I've managed to find some be open to him some amazing things right in the end we all find our own way It's about you it's not about what i've got really. I just an example of one person story all this is about the person who's getting into your relationship to yourself, when your relationship to what you're wearing which age or relationship to the world if basically, hey training system through the back door it's like training martial arts and not being told where are you going to which is the best training for martial arts

48:49 So you're being trained to enhance your psyche, enhance the knowledge of yourself and work with magical items that have been either given or sold to you by an ajan. And through them you can improve your own life so it is very relatable to lots of other systems whereby we improve ourselves to be able to meet the world on our terms Right on yeah that is super interesting that's why i'm intrigued by this stuff cuz I feel fairly energetically dance and I would like to maybe see if the potency of one of these things really something I could feel but yeah I mean your examples are pretty provocative for sure gotta be careful around the TSA with those things. What's a TSA? You'll have to explain it for me Greg. Oh they're the airport police here in America. Well you know some of this shit I've carried through airports, you wouldn't believe!

49:45 I love it. And it's a Buddhist amulet, but then again, I've not been to America and your guys are really strict. Yes unfortunately we are so when it comes to the Ajarn themselves tell us a little bit more about maybe some of their common practices or widespread magical rituals that might not be very well known outside of this amulet enchanting tradition? Okay well you know new stuff is coming into light all the time within this system The longer i am exposed to it the more seems to come to light its quite astonishingly date and really only comes to like when either somebody comes forward for something in particular. Or a situation arises whereby they can tell me or explain what they are doing, yeah this week i have gone help with ritual change somebody's kind of life

50:44 Really and it's done remotely does they don't need to be there and there is only one person you can do this ritual that answer and it's a ritual that was invented. God knows how long ago times of war to clean the warriors who came home now because if i go out and kill everything else they might have ghost or negative extreme negativity hanging on to them The ritual can also be angled to remove any appalling bits of karma that have been acquired in previous lifetimes. Somebody who's been terribly wronged by somebody along your lineage, that can impose on your present day existence and a dancer has the ability to be able to remove that

51:39 What was one lady you had to abortions and the john sands after meeting her is that you have two abortions haven't you read this before we went. And who else hit the floor and she said yes it's a woman of them hanging on to you how did your life, can we talk through the process of doing insurance assistance so great thing about being less gentle than the type people western is that we could really push you through this so the ritual would have a chance of working to improve your life and what were doing on sunday's basically took somebody just going for real shit time.

52:25 Everything's going wrong you know those periods great everybody gets in the life where. The feces flying towards the founder and i personally think there is a central part of growth for all of us sometimes we need to help get through it, this is when i tired or no one asked him that job The locals around the johnson's son is place of work if they have any problems like that they will go and see him, no i've been in many times with spin a local lady in there she might be in early thirty seven married and want help from the job because she's off to see a lovely new man. That evening so jambo spend this time making her glow light gold wow yeah so she's attractive and it gives her a chance

53:18 to bring something into her life that she feels like she needs so it's just nice i'm sure its very similar in nature too many of the parts of the world is bigger I don't know about other magical systems, but from what I understand and what people have told me is just bigger. I've deliberately not studied other magical systems so it didn't influence what I've done." Well that was the thing because channelings and apparitions...that doesn't really come up much in the book and i guess i was curious if in your years with the Ajarin you've seen any spirits or actually communicated with spirits? Or if that's even part of their system

54:02 Well they communicate with them right if it is part of the system but you know you gotta be careful what your rights and you got to be careful how it's seen. You can't be careful about not being too tilted in the direction should be pretty obvious to anybody reading what we done that is of course these guys can, Communicate with these things right obviously they talk to spirits that was a poor choice of words on my part but i guess what is it really see anything like scrying or that group setting mediumship for anything like channeling per se. Letting gay girls come through you yeah exactly there's none of them

54:44 Well, there is that. But you get many hundreds of thousands of people in this country who might channel Shiva or Lucy whatever else the Thai occult agendas it's called Lang Song it's like being ridden and the Thai occult agenda are very skeptical towards extremely skeptical towards it. There's only one Ajan I've interviewed and know very well who has somebody who did that within his lineage, one. The rest like there is one Katoi near Chiang Mai who channels Shiva and one of the Ajans just basically said why would Shiva choose to go through a ladyboy in Chiang Mai?

55:37 Yeah, they are very skeptical towards it because it's prevalent here. So the jihadjans are considered to be above that their samadhi, their focus is such whereby they will not get possessed They can sit and communicate correctly without having to do any of that so I've got to be careful here not to upset people but that is their words whereby they are above it all. If a Jain went into trance, sometime you can be possessed by your Satyam tattoos yeah? But again if a Jain did that all his devotees would lose respect for him because he's meant to have the control

56:25 See, I like that. That's why we look at different cultures to see different ways of interacting with these spirits Of course if they all looked at things the exact same way there'd be no difference There would be no reason to single out the Taiya cult So i do like hearing those little subtle differences And... We've talked about a lot of magical things today A lot of powerful energetic talismans and amulets If i was to play devil's advocate for many of the americans listening i'm sure they've been fascinated i'd like to think that even though we're americans lot of this audience is pretty open minded or we wouldn't be doing this but.

57:03 There are still attitudes towards the occult and a general dismissal of it. I mean, what would you say to Americans who might have the attitude of well? I never pay attention to the dead or land spirits. I don't have a spirit house. I don't pay any attention to any of that stuff in my life is going just fine. I don't see a need for amulets or spirit houses. What are they maybe missing is this a more enriching situation or what would you say to them who were just kind of cynical No i would say well i'm really glad you happy because that's the only thing that's really important. Fair enough number one girl in life is be happy and there are a million roots to happiness, i am so nervous have to make more of an effort because of whatever life deals you, yes we're all different people were trying to find the way through our existence but no longer on my life you've got to find your happiness

58:00 And that can be a great challenge with the trials that life brings. And for some people, they turn to various forms of spirituality. For others you know some people are a bit like the equivalent of a spiritual brick. Guilty! Yeah it's just completely beyond their realms of existence and that has always been the case throughout the history of mankind there have been a few people who encompass the magical realm, who enter the magical realm. And it's just another bit of an offering is whatever we need... We need to make available whatever is needed by the general populace and how for some people adopting a form of spirituality natural spirituality is an essential aspect of that. I agree!

58:56 So let me ask you this. Have you had anyone who came to you with strange experiences after reading your book? Do you think that the power in something like an amulet can translate through a photograph or anything like that? I think we can be influenced in many different ways, but that might be the influence of the self on ourselves. Possibly! And that's a big part of it don't forget their belief is a huge aspect of every form of magical system. Well, let me hit you with this. I actually waited till the end to bring this up but i'm convinced there's a lot of power in this book and you document some pretty intense rituals and include those photographs of what seem to be pretty potent magical amulets and I say this because I've been reading it all week in preparation for today and yesterday was pretty much just consumed by the book well even though I repeatedly talk about how energetically dense I am like a brick

59:54 I don't tend to sense spirits or anything like that, but last night I woke up from one of the most intense dreams of my life. Very much like I was in the middle of a magical war. I woke up short of breath and covered in sweat and I had anxiety about my own surroundings like never before! And I did not feel alone...and I walked out into the kitchen to kind of collect myself and noticed that the time was 2.55pm I thought, huh that's interesting being the witching hour and all. I get some water, I take a leak as you do in the middle of the night and then I look at the time again and it's 3 o 5 and this was just freaky because somehow 10 minutes passed in what really could have only been 2 or 3 and it was all quite weird and not the sort of thing that happens to me and I'm convinced that had something to do with this book It's got spirits in it now they're in my house Janks

1:00:44 Well, you know say hello to them when you go home. Be nice to them and maybe you've just read something in there that struck a chord. It's possible! There is an odd use of language in there as well which is deliberate The book also folds back on itself so it is not linear and that is deliberate To make people read more than once because its too big a system to read about one Also most of the ambulance and there are considered to have life to be alive.

1:01:21 The magicians are very powerful they can do more than what we know they are not on our realm and i say how well as in the human realm which includes me. I'm reading about anything come bring a change jog something loose for sure change should be the only constant in life Because if we can change, we can adapt. If we can adapt life stays fluid. If we don't change just look at the diseases that are formed through stagnation. Yeah so the unfolding of the flower is the important thing. Poetic! Yeah that's the important thing

1:02:10 allow something to open just to get a window through the dirge that often is seen in our lives. There's more, there's always more than that. Well said and man I just think this has been a really great time! I think the book is fascinating and I love to amplify the stories of lesser known cultures glad we could do it before we go do remind people of your website, the book, the Facebook page anywhere where they can follow the ongoing work you're doing? Sure. The Facebook page is called the Thai Occult Books, that easy and the best way to find the website for the book is to go to my own website, thethethaiccult.com and just click one of the two books on the cover and that will take you to the publisher who has timeless editions of France

1:03:09 So that's all reasonably easy because it's all got the Tire cult in all the titles. Perfect! And any idea what is coming next? Is there another volume? Well, I was thinking about doing an appendix but you know to be honest with you i'm exhausted after doing this book and i'm gonna wait until it naturally occurs. doing any more writing until really this settles, the knowledge in the book has got to settle within the people who read it. I might just release it as a quick PDF – I don't know yet! I might stick on the Facebook page as it arises The next project that would like to do after Arrest is the photographic one

1:03:54 Because I have an access to their world and i would like to tell the story of this book purely in photographs. Yeah, i think that'd be great so i'm gonna buy a new camera which is a great excuse to buy medium format digital but luckily they're about to release a cheaper one So if we sell this book out, most of the profits from this book will go into a new camera. And then we'll try and get something in bookshops worldwide where there is no profit in that sort of thing. This is kind of just something that I really have to do more than anything else. Well the universe provides and I wish you luck on the continued journey! Thank you very much it's been lovely You got it

1:04:41 Sweet spirit of Buster Scruggs and hallelujah people! A deep look into a small pocket of the world with Peter Jenks. Alright, a show and guest I definitely enjoyed. Peter's book really is a work of art and completely worth getting into And I know there have been a lot of esoteric and magic type-a shows lately all right in a row We'll get back to conspiracy soon. I promise But I got on a little esoteric anthropological kick after Dr. Jack Hunter sent out a flurry of guest requests, John Michael Greer he was a little magic in nature and then Patrick Harper talked about initiation rites of African tribes and how it relates to the greys

1:05:27 and a few other anthropological insights but then of course we have a hyper focused episode on the traditions of the Thai ajarns. And I think it all kind of fits under the THC umbrella, but i could understand how some people might feel like were getting a bit singularly focused and maybe a tad off topic But, like we've done many times it is nice to highlight these under the radar subcultures when we know this is the type of thing that many governments and empires and priesthood have tried to do away with. Maybe not the Ajarns specifically but long standing well developed magical traditions for sure so I do like to explore them when we can

1:06:12 I think it kind of helps us to just better understand reality in general. Also, there's usually a cultural layer to magic that can be pretty specific So if you only examine magic from one tradition or one region, you probably would have a skewed view of it and how it works. Or at least maybe of its limitations? I feel like if we look at a lot of different traditions, we can kind of discern which aspects are culture-specific and then what the real nuts and bolts underneath all that is—the things that seem to be more universal And then all that in turn helps us to unpack that high-level magic and ritual more academically doesn't quite sound right but at least maybe more accurately or with more nuance. Because I don't think it's a question of if high level rituals carried out in front of us, but getting better at identifying it is always going to be a good thing. There was a fair amount of dark stuff talked about today using human tissue and amulets and whatnot

1:07:16 Regardless of if it's a good idea to mess around with this, I still want to understand how it all works and what people are doing. It seems reasonable that spiritual energies would be connected to organic tissue. Maybe the spirits do enjoy being close to life? But I am intrigued and now i have a Rahu Amulet and I'm making offerings with the Moon Cycles. Sounds like I got a new pet or a Tamagotchi but hey, if Rahu is gonna help me out the least I can do is make him a cup of coffee on the full moon right? I feed a fish tank every day and they don't do shit so there's that it's definitely going to be a nice test case for me and I'm really thankful to Peter for putting something like this in my life from such a specific place made by a local monk

1:08:04 It's just very cool to me, the whole thing. The path that this little amulet has taken... Hmm. That said in terms of future shows though maybe you guys can help me out a bit because I do really want to do a few episodes on a couple of topics that i have not had very good luck securing guests for and those would be directed energy weapons and the California fires Maybe a deep dive into the prison industrial complex, I think that could be two hours we haven't done in the past. But also I've been hearing about Israel's Talbiyah program and the new Silk Road initiative and how these things kind of coalesce but if you have guest suggestions for those topics obviously they're separate things but get at me or really tell them to get at me

1:08:53 I'm ready to go hard in the paint when it comes to the conspiratorial and i think those are some nice entry points while avoiding the political. They just don't seem to be coming together, and maybe that's why I need to put out the call so there it is! I did think this was pretty unique though a lot of us probably don't know too many people with insight into the Thai occult and now we know a little bit Of course, the first hour is out there for everyone and the second hour is for Plus members. And in today's episode the second hour gets into things like the history and lineage of the Thai spell books, The art of Thai ritual tattooing, Thai fairies, the processes of praising Rahu, The rare one-eyed coconut garden spirits, Thai herbology and supernatural plants, cats in the Thai occult,

1:09:50 Cat fetus amulets. Is any show complete without cat fetus amulets? I don't know, but it's all provocative interesting stuff and i really appreciate those willing to support the show who think what i do is worth the price of admission. I'd like to think you get eight dollars worth of insight a month but... You be the judge and i'll just keep plugging away! But hope y'all had a good holiday We got one more show coming out in November. It does have a magical wrapping, but it is very practical and talks about current events and the conspiratorial...and archetypes! How basically everything is archetypes. And I will leave it at that. And for now, I'm getting outta here. That's my contribution to spotlighting some very committed and disciplined people out in the world. Much love and respect to them

1:10:43 Do check out more of Peter's work where you can. And I'm getting outta here, your move secret keepers culture shapers and esoteric suppressors the capstone cabal! You're...fuckin'... I can't stay out, down When you are so high The highest price that I want to pay To do the job Yeah yeah yeah

1:12:55 I ain't gonna take none of your foolin' around And I can't stand no one puttin me down Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah This is about me racing my mind

1:13:41 The high sides that are on you You're not afraid to do the time Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh