Nick Pineault | EMF Exposure Research, Health Effects, & Telecommunications Industry Capture

00:08 The planet's puppet masters almost surely haven't There clearly may be something there beyond the realm of man And until you've thoroughly tested every last closed chested key Unless you really... We'd be without THC, we know they're lying to us just don't own up THC The higher side chats show Grad Carl wouldn't come funny Here we go again, Hireside Chatters. From the Sunshine State I'm Greg Carlwood and over the decades it seems as if we've seen quality standards drop through the floor regarding air water food and everything in between...as industry capture is at an all-time high making any regulatory agencies little more than hollowed out husks just there to provide people with a false sense of security on top of it we let most of the major players provide their own science and safety studies for the system to rubber stamp

01:12 energy companies, big pharma, cigarette makers, industrial plants commercial fishing outfits factory farms and of course the big telecommunications corporations. It's almost hard to quantify the insane increase in EMF exposure over the last 50 years The industry and their lapdog regulators are happy to say it's all good but given the history of how these things typically go I'm not so sure Meanwhile, every new purchase from kitchen appliances to children's toys and living room couches all seem to need some sort of smart feature, Wi-Fi access or Bluetooth connectivity. Well today we're taking the deepest dive yet into exactly what the best research available says regarding the risks and consequences have increased in ever growing EMF exposure with the EMF guy himself Nick Pino

02:02 A journalist who compiled the best data into one of Amazon's most popular books on the topic. The Best-Selling Non-Tinfoil Hat Guide to EMFs, How to Fix Our Stupid Use of Technology He's also the man behind the Smarter Tech podcast, where he and his guests will inspire you to use technology in a way that is safe mindful and health promoting. And on his website TheEMFGuy.com You'll find a shop full of useful products from EMF readers to low-emf emitting cell phones as well as a course he has designed as companion to the book and several other EMF focused offerings Alright let's get into the conversation nobody wants to have

02:41 The EMF science specialist, smart tech safety advocate and telecom industry caller-outer Nick. Welcome to the higher side What an intro, thanks for having me. Tremendous! Hey thank you and I'm happy to have you here this is a major issue to me i got a kid who's coming up on two with another one on the way I just moved to a more spread out area largely because of my concerns over just how tightly packed I was with my neighbors the power lines on the street at about 2 dozen Wi-Fi networks being picked up at any given time I've still run into a number of challenges in trying to keep EMF exposure low, but to get us going here clearly you have made this your thing. To give people a good sense of how dedicated you've been talk to us about how long you've been looking at the EMF issue reading the science interviewing the best researchers and all this stuff tell us what you've done to earn the title The EMF Guy

03:38 Yeah, you know what after around one year or two years after writing the book this is when many doctors started calling me the EMF guy in conferences. I don't know if it was really earned at this point because I had written the book, yes. But I feel like now maybe I deserve it more. I've been looking about the science on EMS for seven years now prior to that, I have another seven years under my belt of just being a citizen journalist looking at environmental toxins of all kinds you know? I looked at the issue that happened in Flint Michigan over heavy metals and tap water and then was reading very good articles on Mercola.com and other independent researchers, Stephanie Seneff on glyphosate and whatnot

04:23 And they were reporting that, you know we need to take things into our own hands because as you very gracefully said in your intro the regulators are simply failing at their job in a way that is it's almost... It would be laughable but I think it's more like something that we need to have a cry over. Because it's very sad the state of affairs that we're in and how much this corporate capture has gone Not to digress, but yeah it's been seven years and now more than ever I feel very compelled to interview scientists and activists. These days i'm connecting with scientists but also lawyers who are heading lawsuits against the telecom industry at many levels including some lawyers like

05:08 A very popular one is running for president, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who is representing what he said on Jorogen lately hundreds of people that have been hurt by a self-harmer who claim that they've had a brain tumor or other tumor of the head or other body part because of their phone so of course it needs to be proven by court but some cases have been won already Yeah, it's a dangerous thing out there and people don't want to talk about it because I think most of us are addicted to the technology. We can't see it so it's out of sight out of mind even though it is an increased exposure type of thing And I think a lot of us tend to say well I'll use my phone less tomorrow and then tomorrow never really comes we kick the can down the road and then its 20 years that we got a brain tumor

05:59 And it's not a matter, I guess what was difficult for me to get into the topic of EMS is in 2016. I did my first deep dive although maybe my first book on EMS dates back from maybe 2014 and 2015 as far as the books that I've come across that really inspired me to do this work and a lot of this stuff on the internet is let's say extreme in its delivery. Some people will say your phone is killing you, yeah well you know it's more like your phone might increase your chance of a brain tumor which could kill you yes but if the short punchy content that is

06:40 a little bit on the side of fear-mongering, especially in alternative media. It doesn't really help because the perception is okay this is crazy talk so of course the truth is oftentimes in the middle and the sense that we have literally no idea at the moment what is the safe level of electromagnetic fields that you can get exposed by and still be healthy? We have no idea what is the safe level for pregnant children, unborn fetuses or maybe older more frail people in their 80s and their 90s or on their deathbed. We have no idea what these levels are because what we know is that the safety standards are essentially completely useless at the moment they're not based on the right thing and that has been established so long ago that it's again it's completely

07:35 appalling that things are not progressing faster. But of course, if you have regulators that are essentially the same people as industry and serving the industry before the public, you see why things have not evolved. And as you very well said in your intro At the same time as I was writing my book, I was starting to see more Bluetooth headphones. I was starting to see that Bluetooth everything, the smart watches wearables your dryer and your washer are connected through your phone and now every light bulb can be also connected then you're toaster is going to send you a notification when your toast is ready because that's super important so all these things are happening at the same time So while we have failing regulators

08:23 safety standards, at the same time we are greatly increasing our exposure. Which gives me even chills because okay well we should be doing the opposite because there is scientific uncertainty and if we follow the precautionary principle which is something a lot of people have been talking about in the pandemic and whatnot and oh we should follow that it states that scientific uncertainty, but some indications of harm. We should err on the safe side of things and not say well let's wait until people are damaged and then we're going to act so we're acting in a very crazy way that as if humanity and regulators have learned nothing from many other scandals or long battles like trans fats or smoking or DDT

09:14 Or you know leaded gasoline it's all the same story and now I am my say and i'm bias of course but i might say that this is even worse of a story because we're talking about more cell phones than human beings on the planet. And if it's true that we're damaging at least some people, well that small percentage of people that are potentially getting very harmed in the long run let's say a brain tumor by this cell phone. Well we're talking about not two individuals or ten or ten thousand, we're talking about millions of people that are getting injured because this agent called EMF everyone on the planet is getting exposed

09:55 and some people more than others, but in industrialized nations and even in third world countries a lot of people have cell phones. So that's the crazy part of this entire topic. Right right well said so obviously we have natural EMF as well as artificial your book focuses on four specific types of EMFs that have been linked with adverse health effects radio frequency magnetic fields electric fields and dirty electricity. Elaborate a bit more on EMF in general, and the singling out of these four categories? Can these four categories be ranked in terms of exposure most people have to them and the potential for damage?" It's not easy as that I wish it was that simple but in reality what I can say is the wireless part is the fastest growing one

10:48 Electric fields, magnetic fields. It's mostly environmental if you live in a home you are exposed to electric fields If you live near appliances which most people are You are to some degree exposed to magnetic field and then dirty electricity it is increasing because One of the main culprits is the way we use electronics and the way we distribute energy, especially in North America. But it is a worldwide problem. When it comes to wireless, it's fastest increasing because of the sheer amount of different devices that people have. Now the average that I saw lately is 29 devices that emit wireless per household on average

11:32 I have colleagues who come to people's homes to do EMF surveys with meters just like you would have a mold inspector. You have this EMF inspector and One of my colleagues, Brian told me I saw this mentioned with well over 150 different wireless devices and sensors. If you have a smart home right? It's anything but smart but that's how they call it You would have every single thing that is electronic that is Bluetooth also so that way you can have all the notifications on your phone and control the lighting and things like that just cool gadgets But that's really why it's fastest increasing is that people are bringing more and more of this radiation in their home, closer to their body. Closer to their pillow where it might interfere with sleep and then also so that's the part where

12:22 most people can have control over. So I guess that's the good news and that's a bad news, but also a good news where you okay? You can decide not to bring these devices inside your home but even if you do so, you also have environmental exposures from wireless which is the fastest growing type of EMFs in the form of cell phone towers, in the form of industrial strength routers installed by the city because everyone is excited to have free wifi across the city and in parks and whatnot. Then even on the subway train right? People want that connectivity everywhere. And as far as if I were a mayor, I would understand why citizens are asking this of me

13:03 And that's even if you're a good mayor, you irradiate the population more. Right? So the entire society is focused on that they see it as more wireless and more fidelity and faster packets to your phone equals better and faster future and more progress. That's because the harms of EMS have not been widely publicized This is why I mostly talk about EMLs these days on podcasts. I think that's because a lot of people can understand this more and then, a lot of people ask me about 5G, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth headphones... And all those fall in the wireless category which is

13:49 In my mind, still the number one danger to people's health because this is the one where we have the best science available especially around cell phones. and around putting a cell phone to your ear. And we know that if there is one thing you want to take out of my entire work, it's please don't spend hours and hours with a phone near your body! So whether it's near your ear or near your groin because it's in your pocket this In my mind, in the mind of the scientists who study this in an independent manner. The most dangerous use of technology that you can have based on the science.

14:33 Well, I think a lot of us are guilty of having that phone in our pocket probably eight hours a day. And in terms of trying to get a handle on what's most dangerous you know obviously the phone near our body but if we have devices that we use a lot and were curious how to check them and what frequencies they operate on What should be careful about? Is there certain frequency ranges that are showing to be more harmful than others We don't even know. The main thing in EMF science is that it's a big mix of different things you have, for example Wi-Fi is on 2.4 gigahertz or 5.8. Oftentimes there are two different channels on your Wi-Fi router or more that are emitting these signals

15:21 And that's just one type of exposure. The cell phone these days, if you have 5G on your phone you would have like the lower bands that goes a little bit under 700 megahertz so that's technically lower frequency than before but it doesn't mean its any safer It's not just the frequency, it might also be the pulsation rate of that radiation and also the polarization of that frequency. What does this mean? Well it means engineers in order to connect better or to connect your phone to the antenna and make it as fast and reliable as possible without any packet drops without it being choppy when you talk

16:00 or without it always buffering when you watch your video in 4K, what they do is that they tamper with this signal. So instead of being a smooth continuous wave like any natural EMFs that you would find in nature such as sunshine or even the natural magnetic field of the earth It is extremely erratic and it is modified in a 3D environment, to fit the antenna like a key. So if you think about these signal characteristics, scientists mostly agree that the reason these EMF's are harmful... ...it's not that much about frequency or power although power does play a role

16:41 It's about all those foreign characteristics that basically you never find in nature. You don't find this in natural magnetic fields, what comes from space... So our bodies, our biology is literally incompatible with how much we've modified artificial signals. And there are indications that if we could go back to maybe more simpler signals or if we studied how to engineer signals that are more bio-compatible, if you will, maybe they could be healthier but we don't even know if that's possible

17:22 theoretically. So we're very, very far from developing healthy Wi-Fi at the moment all we know is what we've got going on is not compatible with biology so therefore you're gonna have consequences The positive note is that there are also fields of healing EMS that are being developed separately. For example, you have therapeutic devices that use light to heal red light panels and that's photobiomodulation People use that for faster healing, collagen production. So we know that artificial light which is a type of EMF in the higher frequencies that we can see... We know that using man-made EMFs in the form of this therapeutic device can help us

18:09 heal faster. Although we know that there's such thing as the dose response so if you overdo it on the red light panel, you might in fact get no effect or even a detrimental effect but when it comes to your Wi-Fi well most people have it on 24 7 so it's not like we're using it sparingly So there is also the question of the right dosage But It is nice to see that I think at one point we're going to be able to bridge all that science around therapeutic devices and maybe make the wireless safer. But in the meantime, we're still in a place where there's much scientific uncertainty and all we can say is that if you can eliminate source this is probably the best way to go where if you turn off your Wi-Fi at night or if you decide not to have 29 different wireless devices and you have just three at home... You're doing great!

19:03 And that's even if your neighbors do not choose to do the same because they haven't listened to this podcast or read my book, or any other videos. If they don't do anything but you do, you're still helping them because they're still exposed from your stuff. So if you reduce the number of devices it's good and then we don't know exactly is a better to turn off Wi-Fi And to use your phone via the antenna instead, connected to the tower. Like using 4G or 5G instead of Wi-Fi? A lot of people ask me this question and the truth is we simply do not know what's most harmful among all these different things. There are certain behaviors like I said that could be most harmful

19:48 it being so intense because it's so close to your body. But as far as environmental exposure goes, is it better to be on 2.4 gigahertz on your Wi-Fi or 5.8? And the answer is we don't know. We simply don't know and that's a bit of a daunting thing for me because I want clear answers for people so they can take action but we simply don't know which of these signals are most problematic But like I said, a phone to the head and a phone to the groin in your sports bra all day every day. That's probably the most harmful way to use this tech. Yeah fair enough and that is a huge opportunity! The Healing Frequency Tech Company with a whole suite of products, the phones, the routers

20:33 all using the frequencies that heal rather than degrade. Get on that, whoever out there wants to make a billion dollars? But let's get into the history of our EMF safety standards and why they're insufficient. Maybe this starts with the Telecommunications Act of 1996 Yes, well that's part of the story and like many acts I don't know what happened in the 90s. People that are very well versed into US politics will probably tell me it has to do okay we blame this or that government but in these years in the 80s and beginning of 2000 there seemed to be have someone who put in place so many protections for industries

21:13 I think under the disguise of making sure that the industry can flourish, but in reality they went so far that industries can flourish and be reckless and be completely irresponsible. It's encouraging very bad behavior for corporations or simply corporations that do not care about safety And they kind of washed their hands about it. So in 1996, the Telecom Act was signed by Bill Clinton at the time and basically what it gave is essentially you cannot sue telecoms over health effects when it comes to the placement of cell towers

21:55 And what's happening at the moment is that people who say, I don't want the cell towers close to my home have to argue over things like oh it's not pretty for the neighborhood rather than it's irradiating me because they are technically within their rights to install those almost anywhere. And of course the telecom industries these days have They have built upon that. And now in the last several years, the big debate has been over 5G because the fifth generation of cellular networks requires us to install or requires them, the telecom industry that is, to install way more antennas very close to people's homes. So many people have complained and said no I don't want it that close to my bedroom. I don't think it's safe and most times

22:44 The telecom industry wins if they try to block this at a city council and they've been very, very reckless and aggressive in how fast they install those. So that's in 1996, but to this day it follows us where the industry is let's say protected by this law. It's not 100% of the case that they cannot be sued and that they will not be sued because I think that it's coming. In fact there are hundreds of people like I said by Robert F Kennedy Jr or other attorneys that are represented over brain tumors. And that case is not necessarily the telecoms that will be sued but it might be Apple and Samsung and phone manufacturers so

23:25 It is a quite complicated story, but overall what happened before 1996 is that the safety standards that we have at least in the US to these days and these safety standards are also getting followed in Canada in a very similar fashion and also around the world. to some degree, although many countries have lower limits. They are not sufficient to protect people's health so what happened is that researchers in the 80s took a few rats and a few monkeys and exposed them to EMF radiation probably from a signal generator that is akin to a cell phone although we could argue that a cell phone would be much worse or maybe that's a way to even trick the science there make it a little bit less apparent that there are health effects

24:15 And basically when those animals started feeling confused or had some sort of behavioral change and would not eat as much, they determined okay this is a dangerous level. Then they made sure that there's a safety margin and usually it's basically we're going to make the limit of EMFs 10 times lower than what seemed to affect rats and monkeys. Then they called it today and there was a very good paper by International Commission for the Biological Effects of Electromagnetic Fields, and that's ICBEMF. That's a very good group of independent scientists who published an excellent paper last year talking about those safety standards and why they are completely inappropriate and basically have followed

25:04 food, none of the science you would expect to be done when it comes to toxicology because this is really what it is. You're exposing animals to an agent in the form of... In that case that's an invisible agent and invisible force that's called EMS rather than feeding them arsenic or PCBs in their feed or something like that but it's equivalent we need to have the same standards when setting these standards so the same standard toxicology should apply to EMFs and they were not followed at all. So what happened is that now we have such permissive guidelines that anything goes, and when science found the facts at levels tremendously lower levels of EMF exposure that is tremendously lower than our current EMF guidelines in the US or Canada are all around the world well they were basically either defunded those researchers

25:59 or they were demonized, ridiculed. And basically the industry to this day maintains that there are no effects outside of overheating of tissue so that's in itself a big discussion but basically what happens is that there is a big argument over Is it possible to have effects outside this overheating? If you overheat tissue or even the brain or even sperm and that's a big potential issue for fertility. You see negative impacts because you don't only heat the tissue on the surface of the brain but you heat the brain from inside out. You're microwaving your brain to some degree and they're taught as well if we know that the temperature doesn't rise too much by more than one degree Celsius, therefore it's safe but researchers have found effects at sometimes a million times lower levels of exposure and the effects are more subtle. We're talking about

26:58 a disruption of certain cellular processes such as the transportation of calcium inside the cell and this leads to oxidative stress inside the cell. And many people don't know what that is but in the end it might mean that your cell over time becomes more exhausted from resources so So the long-term effects have not been addressed by these safety standards at all. In fact, to this day cell phones are tested between 6 and 30 minutes but most people use them for more than that every day like you said 8 hours in a pocket minimum For some people it's eight hours while they sleep is still under the pillow or right next to it so if simply If you really dive into how cell phones are tested Or how any of this technology has been deemed safe

27:47 It's simply laughable how it all happened. It is completely inadmissible from a scientific standpoint and it means that the only conclusion that's possible if you look at it seriously and with a critical eye is, well we're kind of navigating this space of EMS knowing zero. We know nothing about what's going to happen it's a big black box of health effect and we cannot really know for sure how many people are impacted and what are the effects? We have some hints such as the brain cancers

28:26 There's big amounts of research around the loss of fertility in men, for example. There is research around pregnant women that are exposed to a phone and then the risks of their children having more ADHD symptoms And that's research from Yale and Dr. Hugh Taylor, there are many different aspects to it. There is one the disruption of the blood brain barrier which is a protective very thin layer between your brain and the outside and it's supposed to shuttle all the right nutrients in and not let their larger toxins into the brain It's sort of a gatekeeper for your brain. And there is research on rats dating back from decades, on the opening of this blood-brain barrier when you apply microwaves

29:11 certain researchers said over time, this wouldn't really create a lot of damage immediately. So a lot of people would say okay well you know I can get away with it but these researchers say we cannot rule out that over the long term... We're talking about the lifetime of exposure right? And nowadays my child will be exposed to its cradle-to-grave so Over several decades, you might see an impact on your risk of developing dementia and Alzheimer. And everyone knows that oops! If you look at the stats it's not looking good people are getting more and more and more not only cancers but also they're losing their minds they're losing their ability to stay sharp mentally younger and younger

29:56 So, some people would say when you know all the Alzheimer's out there it's EMFs. That would be probably something inappropriate to say although maybe some EMF researchers would say that but the reality is it might be linked but we need more research. But then what comes next is who's doing the research? Who's funding the research? And is the telecom industry who's making trillions of dollars as we speak, are they going to fund research that will potentially make people very afraid of using their own products? So we're kind of stuck in a place where we need more research on so many different aspects that have been researched including Wi-Fi. Just the research on Wi-Fi is just a few hundreds of studies around the world it's completely insufficient to be able to conclude things

30:47 in a very definitive manner that people like. Like regulators, like okay this is definitive and even then of course the science can be skewed or it can be influenced but that's really the problem I have with it is that people who don't know that they do not know how their safety standards have been set They say well we have safety standards and you know your phone falls within those standards therefore its safe But You have to understand if our standards are completely not protective and that we have all these different lines of research that are concerning, it means that we might be in extreme trouble right now. Because if any of those ends up being true in 40-50 years and we have a big loss of fertility or maybe we have more brain cancer or breast cancer... We're talking about such a small fraction of the 8 billion people that are using phones

31:44 or a large fraction, hopefully not. But it will impact so many people because unlike Flint Michigan where you have a certain population drinking the water now we have everyone drinking the EMFs and that's why I'm on this topic and not some other toxins because I'm like well you know everyone is being affected and not only that somehow even with all the research has been done and all the scientists screaming from their rooftops This exposure is still going up somehow. While it should have been going down since the very moment, the first controversy around cell phones

32:23 appeared in the 80s and 90s, we should have said oh my god we're going to be a little bit more careful. And maybe we have to you know really really battle these companies to make sure that we do more studies or maybe we take one percent of their profit or something if we can somehow put that into law so that we make sure we have plenty of science to ensure safety this was not done. Right, right really really good points and you also note in the book that difficulty in doing real studies that are going to measure the effects because the way we use them, the length of time we use them and you can't really find a control group these days that doesn't have exposure to such things but

33:06 You talked about people losing their minds and if you consider the younger generation just observing the fruits, it seems like a lot of them have lost their mind. Now I sound like the old guy who always doesn't get the younger generations but we are lucky that we were pretty much baked when a lot of this stuff came into our lives and look at the ones who grew up with it from day one I'm pretty confident there's an effect, let's just say. But going back to the Telecommunications Act one of the major aspects of this is that telecommunications companies can now, based on this act not be held accountable for any negative health effects from cell phone antennas or towers or any other products. Like they have total immunity over any health effects so right there why even do a study since this act was put into place? I mean who cares! Why even fund it and other industries that the state has given immunity to well

34:10 they completely lose their incentive to make things safe. They just say, well all hands on deck full steam ahead let's just go and the market gets flooded with products in this immunity category and then it takes decades for people to say hey I'm not so sure that was a good idea And another interesting point is that These devices, if you actually read the terms of service a lot of them do mention that they could be carcinogenic. A lot of them do mention to keep the devices at a distance and when you read those terms are completely incompatible with the actual real world use and thats quite telling I would say

34:51 That's another aspect to it. My God, this is like an entire conversation I'll try to keep it short but just the fact that manufacturers have been testing their device at a distance from the fake mannequin head that they use in labs is just telling. No one in their right mind would put a phone 25 millimeters from their head and yet, a few years ago, a few phones were tested at up to 25 millimeters some of them are 10, some of them are 5 but as if... Some scientists said that as if the phone was floating in the air magically when people were using it It's completely ludicrous and that's a trick from the industry To be able to get away with

35:34 testing their phone and still being compliant. But here's the thing, when you had one French doctor Dr. Mac Arazi who is an MD and basically was concerned over cell phones and safety he basically asked the equivalent of the FCC but in France they're agency for frequency if you will to what are the results if we look at this safety testing but at zero millimeters, the way people use it. Like if it's in a pocket that's essentially one millimeter maybe of there some fabric there from your groin or your thigh. If it's on your ear its 0mm from your body women

36:16 Oftentimes that I see yoga pants, they tuck in near their groin area or their stomach. In yoga pants or maybe in a bra so it's zero millimeters well what happened is that he got ahold of these results and you had nine phones out of ten that in fact completely failed the already permissive already obsolete and permissive safety limits of EMFs when it comes to cell phones, especially. Then you had the controversy continued because you had the CBC marketplace which is a show up investigative journalists from Canada who found the same thing when they tested phone independently. You had also The Chicago Tribune in 2019 with very veteran

37:01 journalists who also did the same thing and they found the same thing. So now you have multiple sources, and now you have the first class action lawsuit against Apple and Samsung that has been approved in a Quebec court in Montreal. All of this to say that it's even worse than what I wrote in the book. All these things happened since I wrote the book and we're basically unveiling that as far as safety goes This has been coined the phone gate. It kind of reminds you of the Daiso gate and how bad that was, and how fraudulent that was. Well essentially what many people are saying at the moment is that in the entire cell phone industry all cell phone manufacturers have been playing a game

37:50 I don't know how you can call it a cat and mouse with regulators trying to dodge regulation and emit as much as they can get away with while still being compliant. So by saying, this phone has been tested at 5mm 25mm and putting that in the fine print they were getting away with technically this phone is compliant but in reality when people use it the way everyone uses it's completely non-compliant In fact, one phone was up to 11 times more radiation than what should be permitted in the US. It's completely ridiculous and this has not been fixed completely. In France it led to a change in regulation and some phones are being throttled down or let's say the amount of radiation they can emit is controlled either by a change of hardware, by recalls

38:44 I And that's how they do it. But the news and this scandal has not even made it around the world yet, is still in the works and it's still a big controversy so because of that plus everything I said before that we don't even know what the safe level is We know that even the safety limits are being greatly surpassed possibly by every single phone and device out there for all we know. We don't know exactly which one is compliant but

39:27 Lately, an activist looked at the issue in Canada. Same thing it was essentially no phone is compliant if you use it and tested the way users actually use it which has zero millimeters of distance so that's the fine print for you It's kind of another aspect of this that makes it kind of sound like there's going to be some maybe Oscar winning film in 20 years like, oh the cell phone scandal or something. I hope so because by then we're gonna have sorted out some of this stuff but This is really an industry that can get away with a lot because of the illusion of safety and basically the illusion that anything goes. And all that counts, is that we make better phones more exciting and we sell more subscriptions and we put more cell towers in that way everyone's going to be so connected with each other. And this is all rainbows right? This is kind of how 5G has been sold so far. This is progress and this is exciting

40:27 And I understand people who work in this industry, how difficult it must be to kind of break the bubble a little bit and say okay well you know we have the responsibility to make this safer but right now we have kind culture that there's no biological effect and we do not want to shed one cent or to pay one cent for this research. So it must be very difficult, and I've been in contact with engineers that worked for the click-on industry. I've been in contact with doctors who used to believe that my book was pure lunacy, and now they turn around then they realize uh oh yeah you might have been right on some things and It's a big concern for them so it is something

41:09 a pill that is quite hard to swallow for a lot of people right now, especially when you're in it and it's part of your job. Yeah yeah I get that and just as addicted as people are they don't want to change their behavior. I know it's difficult for me And let me ask you about Bluetooth specifically? I know you said we don't know a lot about the specifics but I use it way more than i want to. Headphones, connecting it to the car you know...I just moved to a new area so I use maps pretty much everywhere I go my computer mouse etc etc It's like..i can keep my phone away from me but it doesn't have a headphone jack anymore and now you get an adapter but then you got the phone close to you So worry about that too! But you do mention that there are three different classes of bluetooth devices

41:58 best to avoid class one devices. Why is that? And what can you say about the different classes?" Yeah, I could talk about the classes. I'm really wondering if any other class than Class 1 is available at the moment in 2017 they were moving to stronger devices that are worth last one on the latest Bluetooth headphones from Apple. I haven't followed that because my advice is basically whatever class it is, you should probably avoid it if it's very close to your brain at least minimize your exposure. I'll say this way because I know some people don't want the extreme advice and I've got athletes sometimes that are in incredible health and they say, Is this really affecting me? I use this Bluetooth thing to track my workouts

42:43 Well, if it's several hours per week. It's not the same as 18 hours per day It's really a matter, I think dose is important but if you are not moving around the city you are sitting at a computer and you still use Bluetooth headphones to me it doesn't make sense. And as a percussion remeasured you should use a wire instead and unfortunately the industry is moving in a different direction so for example the company Bose and there's nothing against them...I used to be a fan but I was trying to find their wired version of their noise-canceling headphones, and I cannot find it anymore. They really moved the entire company towards Bluetooth because this is where the market demands are heading so it is difficult. The reality is this. Bluetooth is lower powered than a cell phone in most situations but it is deeper into the brain if we talk about earbuds and...I do not have the data. I'm unable to find the data of

43:45 what is the amount of radiation that is being emitted if you calculate that you're several millimeters in the ear. Like I don't know, if they do it with a separation and how they're tested my guess is this has probably not looked at properly by any measure and then when I looked at what certain scientists have admitted very lately there's I don't know if you're aware, but Dr. Andrew Uberman is kind of this internet superstar in the health circles and so this guy is very well known he's on Joe Rogan it looks like multiple times over time and Dr. Uberman is from Stanford

44:26 He's an expert in ophthalmology and also he is a neuroscientist if I recall correctly. So, he understands the brain very well. And lately, he warned his readers in a video that was for members only but he said you know... I looked at the data and I looked at fertility will not keep a phone in my pocket But then he talked about Bluetooth and he said I don't feel comfortable with a Bluetooth device that is emitting all this energy very close to the ear because the ear has very, very small components that do all the job. these bones and also all the nerve cells that are there. It's kind of a very small thing that does incredible things for our brain just taking the noise from the environment and sound, sending it up to the brain. He was not comfortable at all with the idea of keeping Bluetooth earbuds near his brain for long periods of time so he said

45:21 you better not use it. So I think that even mainstream scientists are starting to say this is probably a bad idea, but you don't hear that on the 6 o'clock news And what you hear is, you need to purchase these. You see every other ad being about something cool that you can put in your ear so I would say this is quite unfortunate and I think this is what makes a lot of people probably love and hate my advice when they hear me on podcast but I'm not a fan of Bluetooth in any situation, but if you use it sparingly this is in my mind way safer than using it for extended periods of time. So in many situations... If you can use a Bluetooth earpiece, you can probably use speakerphone in some situations or in some other situations if you're going about the city

46:15 You can probably have wired earbuds and no, they're not as comfortable. They might get or tangle in the way I know because I use them all the time and I won't have Bluetooth because i'm trying to follow my own advice here but then keeping your phone maybe in the back pocket or a bag or you know if you're women and you have like a bag on the side it creates a little bit of distance. Or there are special cases that are legit, that can also prevent the radiation from going towards your body. It's not a perfect solution but if people are looking for practical solutions there are some products that actually worth it They're not necessarily cheapest types of cases sometimes they're up to 60 USD or 70 dollars because of course they have special materials built in to reflect and absorb the radiation

47:04 In these cases where people want to be on calls, maybe they take long walks and they want to talk to people or they're on a job that requires talking a lot like my dad who's a realtor for example. I would recommend a case and then wired earbuds especially if it's your job so you know that in the next year you're going to spend thousands of hours on that phone. So if you mitigate this problem in your life, you're gonna greatly lower exposure and it can only be good for your health. Right! Good advice, good advice And let's talk about the specifics of the EMF damage to the body, given the studies we know, the indications that we have. You list several different categories and this one I thought was interesting it's EMF screw up your VGCCs and you have a lengthy quote from Dr. Martin Paul who is giving a lecture at the Portland Public Schools Board Of Education he says

48:05 What EMFs do in our body is that they work on some channels in the plasma membranes of ourselves called voltage-gated calcium channels. What they do, is that they open up those channels, calcium flows into the cell and it's the excess calcium in the cell that leads to all the biological effects that are produced by EMFs autism is one of them. A second one is type 2 diabetes, the third one is the kind of cardiovascular disease that has to do with the electrical control of the heart so all of the assessments have safety which have been based on the assumption that the only thing these fields can do as heat things up it's based on a falsehood sorry are my three minutes up? I liked that! He really threw a lot in there but

48:53 that's a category that I don't hear anyone talking about your voltage gated calcium channels. Well this is you know research from, i think that one of the pioneers is called Dr Dimitris Panagopoulos who's a biophysicist also like Dr Paul and he really pioneered or researched around calcium channels and the mechanisms What's almost disconcerting for me is that a lot of people will tell me things like, oh there's no possible mechanism that would explain why such low level radiation in the sense that the intensity. Yes cell phone is intense but it's not cooking you. It's not such an intensity that we could perceive damage right then and there on the skin couldn't burn you like this as compared to a microwave oven for example, it is 1000 times lower so your

49:45 your phone is like 2 watts and a microwave oven might be more than 1000. So people perceive it as low-level radiation, and they say well there's nothing in the cell that can detect this radiation so therefore there cannot be effects. And of course that's completely wrong is just that people haven't read the papers and haven't looked at the work of biophysicists. The conventional people in physics say that there could not be any effect because this is non-ionizing radiation, just go in there a little bit because you're gonna keep hearing this or seeing this, oh this is safe non-ionizing radiation. And it's almost as if the industry I think recuperated the research and kind of made it their gospel they keep repeating that and then anyone who doesn't believe that is kind of a tinfoil hatter so ionization is direct breakage of the DNA You have enough energy

50:42 in a certain type of EMFs because the frequency is high enough so it can break bonds between molecules. This ionization is a known problem and basically, to the best of my understanding, the reason that we know that X-rays should be used sparingly Several decades ago, it was not a known or it was not a fact. It was not something that everyone knew because we were using x-rays even in shoe shops to make sure that people could see their feet in real time as they were trying to fit a shoe Now we would think better than to use that if you use X rays You have spatial aprons for x-ray operators or dentists

51:24 You have also the reality that people in the medical field are taught that there are doses of radiation that are acceptable per year. And sometimes if a patient demands an x-ray or if they're like, okay we gotta look at it through X ray, they're gonna say ah you know what let's do this every other year instead so they can take educated medical decisions because we know that ionization is bad and you're going to accumulate DNA damage and possible cancer risks in the long run. Now, why is non-ionizing radiation not safe? Well it's not just ionization that matters right?

52:03 It's kind of as if they keep repeating, oh well it's non-ionizing therefore it is safe. No! There could be other mechanisms rather than just ionization that actually impact your long term health in a way that is indirect. It might not be direct DNA breakage but it might be indirect DNA breakage and Dr. Martin Paul or Dimitris Panagopoulos or other amazing scientists have unveiled that it's all about oxidative stress. Oxidative stress can do a lot of things in the cell, in the mitochondria. And the way I put it very simply when I talk to any audience is this is stress! This is stress that comes from the environment and over time it can deplete your cells and this stress is especially depleting to cells that are intensely exposed such as the cells in your brain when you use a phone so that's why you might see for example

52:59 The capacity of these cells to clean themselves up or even to kill themselves, apoptosis which is programmed cell death is reduced when you expose it to a cell phone signal. As if the cell doesn't have the right ability now to say, okay well I'm done. I need to destroy myself and get eaten by the immune system or the cleanup crew so-to-speak because i know that I'm going to be a problem for their organism Well what happens is you start having a tumor And over time we're not talking necessarily about one year

53:37 In many cases, it could be decades down the road you have a tumor and now it becomes maybe cancer. So this is really how this happens in a very indirect way and the calcium channels going back to Dr Paul's work are probably one of the key mechanisms although there might be other ones and even multiple other ones that have not been unveiled yet This research is something that not a lot of scientists going into because it's not well-funded necessarily and it's prone to a lot of controversy, especially in the US and Canada where it's almost now impossible to get funding for these questions because it's perceived that something non credible, non urgent. Whereas in other parts of the world you have

54:27 I was speaking to someone at an event this weekend in London and they said, isn't it bizarre that a lot of the good EMF research comes from India? And I said yes. It is bizarre to me because we have so much money in the US and Canada and in the Western nations to put in good science to protect their population if you look at everything that's being studied by the government there are immense amounts of money. So I thought that EMF research should be a priority, in reality it's quite the opposite when you get outside the Western world you find most of the EMF research that is being published in what I think is a more independent manner

55:07 So there's just a reality, a lot of good research is done in China. I mean it's all around the world Russia is way more aware of EMF dangers than we are on a scientific standpoint and I'm not getting into politics or anything Because these EMF researchers, in fact regardless of which country they are from they actually collaborate inside each other. So I guess they're a little bit above just political or geopolitical considerations and that's good to know but it is just maddening that in the US and Canada essentially what scientists told me is that their research has just dried up

55:46 It used to be okay in the 90s and then eventually, the more effects were found and the more that eventually you don't have anything. And guys like Martin Paul and other scientists I speak to sometimes they are 100% funded by philanthropic efforts or different non-profits. And that's almost as if now we need to fund all this EMF research through a Kickstarter instead of having the government put taxpayers money to protect the population, which is to me completely bizarre Yeah, I don't hold my breath on big overarching sweeping change but i like to take what we do know and then adjust accordingly in my own household. But if you remember of course there was all this conversation about COVID and 5G is there a link? Is it caused by 5g

56:40 is 5G exacerbating the issue. And it seems like based on your book, you don't need 5G because the current EMF technologies and exposure is enough to as you say open up the blood brain barrier and let all kinds of toxins in against our body's natural defenses I want to read a couple things you had in this section The most important effect from EMFs is the opening of the blood-brain barrier. This allows mercury, organochlorines and other pollutants to enter the brain where they cause various neurodegenerative diseases according to French oncologist Dominique Belpommel

57:20 Alan Frey, the biologist I told you about in chapter 2 first proved that low level of EMF radiation like those emitted by a smartphone can open the important barrier which protects your brain from toxins and other invaders. aka the blood-brain barrier, this leakage seems to be triggered very quickly by the use of a cell phone. In one study women whose blood was drawn right after a short phone call showed higher levels of a specific thyroid hormone carrier—the proof that their cerebrospinal fluid was leaking in their blood. The most concerning part is that this damage

57:58 may last for days if not weeks. In Stalford's research, rats exposed to cell phone radiation for just two hours still had a leaking blood-brain barrier eight weeks after the exposure! This blood brain barrier leakage has also been found in people exposed to high levels of dirty electricity. When epidemiologist Sam Milham, previous guest of mine and electrician Dave Stetzer reduced the dirty electricity levels in a public library from 10,000 GS units to under 50 GS units using special filters they found out that the urine levels of neurotransmitters and participants who worked there decreased immensely

58:41 So, to me this is like really really scary stuff but it seems like all sorts of toxins and we live in a very toxic environment are hurting us even more than they would normally because of this blood-brain barrier lowering. And that study that talks about Rats that were exposed for two hours still had a leaking blood-brain barrier eight weeks after exposure. That's a single instance of exposure! You're exposed two hours a day at minimum, probably 8 hours to 24 hours a day Like what is that doing? Does your blood brain barrier ever heal? I mean this is really concerning stuff man

59:22 It is. And in the meantime, or let's say between 2017 and now I think that the problem of the leaky gut so intestinal permeability has become less of a buzzword from the internet than more incorporated in credible scientific research and it's very clear now in what I could gather from this topic that a lot of doctors realize oh! In fact it's a real thing you can have permeable gut and in many situations the toxins you're exposed to actually open up that gut barrier and make it so that you're more prone to food allergies or even certain toxins entering your bloodstream. The same idea is about that leaky brain but it's not as researched, we don't know exactly at this point

1:00:14 who is affected, to what degree. And this line of research I was looking at it specifically before this episode the blood-brain barrier have not seen anything published very recently and i don't even know if there's funding to continue that line of research because it's been mainly defunded in 2000 uh...I think in the early two thousands to the mid 2010s It was defunded so I don't know exactly when we're going to have definitive answers about that or if we're gonna have it, but for sure is just another reason to err on the safe side of things. And that's a bit frustrating because so many areas of EMF science I've identified and so many other great authors had identified before me

1:01:03 are still, let's say a big question mark. It's like well we have indications in rats now people want human studies well in many situations you will look at epidemiology which is counting the body bag so it's a bit of bad approach for the population So you study the past, you study past damage. It's not ideal if people are looking to wait for the epidemiology well that's okay let's meet in 2070 and let's look at who died from their phone and then let's send them apology letter to everyone Maybe the families are compensating them and that's cool, but this is not how we protect the population. We have to look at animal studies, we have to look at mechanisms in vitro studies when we just have cell cultures. There are many levels of evidence that need to be looked at

1:01:51 And so far in animal studies, we had indications of blood burn bearer leakage. We also have some indications in humans and that's well enough to say uh-oh this is very troublesome! And when it comes to the environmental toxicity or let's say environmental exposures to bad air pollution or maybe certain toxins that were drinking in our tap water that could get into your brain or anything else, any other toxins we're exposed to and the possible synergy between EMFs from your phone or Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or any other type of EMF. Well, we simply cannot fathom the number of possible synergies toxic synergies between

1:02:38 cell phone exposure and lead, cell phone exposure and PCBs. Cellphone exposures and BPA, BPB, BPS... The number of agents is completely overwhelming." And one researcher in particular Dr Ronald Kostoff published a series of paper on this. He said that even if we had the type of financing and urgency of the Manhattan Project which was just one of I think most larger scientific endeavor in the history of mankind, if we had that it would take us so many years to study all the possible synergies and kind of find

1:03:15 what is the safe level of lead if you talk on your phone? What is the safe level of PCB's, if you use Wi-Fi all the time that it's completely impractical and impossible for us to study at the moment. So what he said was well before rolling out 5G so it was a paper from several years ago, of course has been rolled out by now He said we should probably not roll out 5g It's just pure madness And that's me saying it but its madness to rollout 5G If we have all these indications that maybe we're potentiating, or making the effects of these toxins even worse when we are just looking at the tip of the iceberg of how these toxins are impacting us. I follow a lot of folks that are experts in environmental toxicities of all kinds

1:04:04 And many of them are now talking more about the different chemicals that are emitted by Teflon or cookware, you know things like that. They're just unveiling new things every week! So, it's just again the same thing when it comes to environmental toxicities of all kinds. But the synergies between EMFs and other toxins is not something I hear talked about nearly often enough but it's a big concern because maybe some toxins that we can handle just fine in non-EMF polluted environment all of a sudden we cannot if you're in this electro polluted city

1:04:43 and your body cannot detox anymore. Or maybe you have this stress to your cells is so large that you cannot detox enough compared if you were in the same environment without the wireless. Yes, great points! And in terms of how we can do better... yes, we need to use it less. Yes turn off your Wi-Fi at night but you also say that you should never leave chargers plugged in, even anything plugged in with the dirty electricity. If you're not using it unplug it this idea that you should just have a charger hanging out of your wall is no good. It does put off some energy even when a cell phone's not attached to it. You also mentioned kind of extreme but turning off your bedroom breaker at night if you can and you are

1:05:34 dedicated enough, go outside to your breaker box and make sure there's no electricity surging through your bedroom at night. And you also mention that you can disable the 4G LTE network on your phone or some phones I mean I think they're kind of phasing that out but you did that and found that it was cut down by 84% which is quite a bit obviously and the 3G network is only slightly slower. And another thing, you say that building biologist Omar Miller mentions installing a $5 small ferrite bead on your headphones wire to reduce

1:06:20 the problem. And I wanted to ask you about this because there's a lot of woo-woo stuff out there like harmonizing chips and crystals and sacred geometry patches, do you know if any of that stuff works? Have you investigated any of that stuff? What is Omar Miller talking about with this small ferrite bead Yeah, a ferrite bead is something that will absorb let's say the dirty electricity which is certain frequencies that could be riding on the wire that goes up to your headphones or earbuds. I wouldn't worry about that unless you are personally very electro sensitive. I'm going to change my stance on this a little bit, but i don't think it's that much of a priority if you use wired headphones or earbuds, I think this is a great step compared to Bluetooth

1:07:08 A ferrite bead might be useful and you can find them in certain EMF shops or even electronic stores. And I mean, yeah if you want to be absolutely optimized and low EMF as possible, I guess you could do it but overall the important thing to think about The stickers and pendants, pyramids... There are countless products out there that claim to harmonize the electromagnetic fields either emitted by a device or the electromagnetic fields around you. And the scientific basis for these devices will vary from company-to-company. In many situations there's none

1:07:50 To be honest, you look at Amazon and you cannot even find who the inventor is. Sometimes you cannot even find who the name of the manufacturer is so avoid it's probably extremely likely completely useless in these cases there are some technologies that are interesting in the sense that some of them will create a more natural field around you which may support your ability to withstand let's say the chaotic man-made radiation. And that's an interesting idea, but I would be very cautious about concluding that any of these products whatsoever will protect you against all EMFs and I have a big issue and it's not just me. I've met lately with colleagues that are scientists and doctors and they agree with me they have a big issue with manufacturers that would claim

1:08:43 If you use this chip, if you put this pendant on, you will be completely protected. And that's the part I have an issue with it is kind of my constant battle since I wrote the book of not endorsing these companies but also How do I talk about it in an intelligent manner? And just this year, I was finally able to connect more with scientists learn what they know about them. And the vast majority of these devices do not pass the sniff test I would say that if you find one of these devices and you feel way better as someone maybe who is electro sensitive, you feel way better using them. Regardless of the fact is it the placebo effect or does it really work? If you feel better then it might ameliorate your life so why not do it? If it does not change your behavior around technology that is because

1:09:36 Another concern of environmental medicine doctors who treat the electrosensitive, they say well if you wear a pendant and let's say it makes you feel a little bit better but in reality the damage is still happening in the background. Is it really productive to have a pendant that masks your symptom? It's akin to you have a broken foot but you're like, oh no I don't want to heal it. I just want more aspirin. We know that is not the real solution so we don't know if this is the case but there are indications that maybe it could be a masking effect and we don't know. So there's so much uncertainty around these devices that normally I say you can decide

1:10:14 look at certain devices that you think are credible. Normally, I don't really talk about companies' names and things like that because I have not conclusively found things that are credible enough for me to endorse or become the spokesperson for something like that so I am prudent towards endorsing any of them but if you want to try something That's okay with me, but it should not replace in any situation the proper action steps of EMF mitigation which is creating distance lowering time of use or maybe even just not having these devices in the first place if we talk about useless exposures like I don't know a Bluetooth alarm clock that you don't even use. Or a Bluetooth speaker but you never use it as they're on the corner But maybe it's plugged in and it's emitting 24-7

1:11:07 So really, I guess it's your mission to navigate these things. But I try to steer my readers in the right direction and let them know that there is a big question mark about this product category. Absolutely! Yes, it's hard to pin things down and obviously endorse products but you do have a shop so there are some things that you halfway feel like people should be aware of We talked about oxidative stress. One more thing I wanted to squeeze in was geopathic stress. You say you hesitated to include this section in the book because not only is the EMF issue pretty much ignored and unrecognized, but the traditional way of detecting geopathic stress, dowsing, is also considered a pseudoscience. Now, I actually think there's plenty of merit in dowsing. I've seen some examples. But what is geopathic stress?

1:12:03 Geopathic stress is basically natural EMFs that could be a stressor to your body. In many regards, in many different civilizations knew that and they avoided building right over a source of water for example and there were many practices to help them find let's say the right spots where these geopadic stress lines run and sometimes it is an underground river. In some other times, it's just different types of natural formations that are deep in the underground but they modify how the magnetic field of the earth or even other natural EMFs will end up impacting you

1:12:53 So, there are indications that living your entire life over lines of geopathic stress could be of a detriment to your health. But I must say that since 2016, I have not spent that much time looking at the research. Some of it is a bit older and some of it is more practiced in Certain European countries and the real expertise I think might be in Germany, Austria and other countries in that part of the world. But I think there's something to it and it should probably be included in you know this safe building movement or building biology not all building biologists are aware of geopathic stressors

1:13:34 Some of them are and are actually well-versed into certain mitigation techniques. You can use certain materials, let's say geopadic stress you would want to especially avoid in your bed so under the bed you could place certain mats that have magnetic forces that would literally deflect that field to ensure that you're not always in it but I must say in this scope of my work because it is such a niche topic I never know if it's my priority to talk about that where a lot of audiences are more like ready to hear a little bit more about their phones, for example. So geophatic stress kind of brings them five steps away in the rabbit hole and yeah, I don't know if that is top priority but to this day I remain convinced that if you know someone who knows how to mitigate this, it's probably a good thing

1:14:29 I don't think you can initially go wrong with investigating every single way you can make your home healthier. Especially if this is your home base, this is the bed that you sleep in whether it's a safer mattress because it's better for your body or maybe cleaner in how it's manufactured or even the air quality or the quality of your water. I don't really think you can go wrong with these things and I think that geopathic stress must be included in the mix, and to what extent does it impact us? It's still a question for me, but I think behind dowsing there is more scientific credibility than a lot of people want to admit. But it is still a topic that is well just like all the rest very prone to controversy. Yes absolutely! I just thought it was an interesting little tangent worth throwing in there so I'm glad you could talk about that a little bit

1:15:23 Man, this has been a wild ride. I appreciate the depth in which you've investigated the topic and I hope more people protect themselves as much as they can because nobody else is going to and what use is the knowledge if you don't use it? Before I cut you loose remind folks about the various offerings you have out there your links, the podcast anything else you want them to know about following up Sure. If some people are curious about a conversation and they want to read the first book on the topic, The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMS it's at emfbook.com or just on Amazon Worldwide

1:16:04 in all good Amazon stores and Kindle. On my website, there's the ebook also if you prefer that version on your computer and I also have the paperback. And I guess the next companion course that goes with the book now is Electropollution Fixed. That's a course I co-developed with My friend and EMF mitigation specialist, Brian Hoyer. And it really shows you step by step how to mitigate each part of your home. I'd say it's much more thorough than the book because these are steps that I learned in the last seven years so it's more up-to-date also and if it's a good way for you to learn from, I highly encourage people to get it. Then we do have The Smarter Tech Podcast

1:16:50 I do on a monthly basis now, I interview scientists and doctors. Sometimes I go beyond EMFs and talk about other topics of environmental medicine such as mold or water quality pretty soon also so I try to widen my horizons and not stay hyper-focused on EMF all the time but most of my work is still looking at EMF science connecting with other people and trying to spread the message to their audiences. Because the reality is, even among health conscious folks a lot of people still do not take the basic precautionary measures I've recommended in 2017 so we have a long way to go to make sure that this awareness makes it to maybe first they're very awake and health conscious and slightly obsessed with health folks and then eventually to the mainstream hopefully

1:17:43 Yes, hopefully. Man good stuff super important and often overlooked thanks again it was a real pleasure keep fighting the good fight and take care! Thanks for having me it's a pleasure The power of Christ compels you people there we have it coming back to an EMF deep dive after quite a long time I'm sure there will be people who see this title and think well what more do I need to know but I hope that we added some things that you weren't aware I always try to approach things as if i were a listener or as if listeners are at least as aware of things in a certain area, so I try to start us a bit further down chain than some other shows might. But with this one it was really the blood brain barrier material that was the most shocking to me that I wanted to make sure we got into the first hour because it's really wild

1:18:41 Obviously, in the second hour we went on to talk about other studies and other effects on the body because they are wide-ranging. But the lowering of the blood brain barrier does seem the most severe and there's all this talk about what causes autism? Is it mercury, aluminum, additives in vaccines? Is it an overload of glyphosate and food preservatives from an unclean over processed diet Or now we have a doctor saying, and I think it was a plus show thing but a doctor saying that allowing more calcium to cross into the brain and build up there also seems to be a mechanism for what we call autism. So it's kind of like that general terrain theory paradigm It's not one thing, its just a high toxic load of things that shouldn't be getting in your brain doesn't really matter what it is

1:19:36 And to me that does make the most sense if your brain is accumulating some sort of pollutant, it's not going to function at its best. Does it really matter what it is? Because if you pour sludge into clean water, it becomes dirty or if you dam up a river, you can use various materials to achieve the same sort of effect Some materials are harder or maybe impossible to remove once they're there, like lead or aluminum or mercury. And maybe others can actually be healed if you change the behaviors that got you into trouble. We've done a couple of shows where there seems to be really impressive reversals of autism symptoms through a more vigilant diet. Obviously it's not just about autism but I see a lot of parallels

1:20:28 between the telecom industry and the vaccine industry. They both were granted immunity, and thus the proper studies are not done, and the products they create completely get flooded into the market. These companies just go full steam ahead while they can operate in this ambiguous space where nobody really knows exactly how badly we're affected." Obviously, Nick takes issue with the hyperbole in the alternative community as he mentioned and even named his book The Non-Tinfoil Hat Guide. Well I wouldn't deny that over the top claims get made but i'd rather err on the side of caution and i'd rather throw shade at the makers of such technologies that are just bypassing safety studies and glossing over the red flags and instead lobbying the government to give them immunity

1:21:24 People don't usually put tens of millions of dollars into securing immunity unless they think there might be a problem. So I'm going to assume the worst until you prove otherwise rather than the other way around You'll find a lot of people who say, well let's not jump the gun here we need this safety data to make the conclusion And they annoy me because the reason we don't have the conclusive safety studies is because the shit's not safe and the industry knows it. You should be more worried about untested technologies and products going to market before that stuff is done I brought up the guy from my notes, Dr George Carlo who headed the $28 million dollar research program funded by the cell phone industry in the 90s

1:22:16 And when his research was done, he started getting attacked and discredited by the same industry that originally hired him because they didn't like his results. Same thing happened with Dr Andy Wakefield I don't think he was industry funded but attack the messenger effectively enough and you can kill the message that disrupts your revenue stream. In the case of Dr George Carlo The industry clearly thought he was capable or they wouldn't have given him $28 million to do the research program. Then you come out the other side and say, well this guy is a quack. It's like what does that say about your judgment? But it is tough to protect yourself I've done a lot better in this new house but the hole in my game is really the living room TV not being hardwired If I could get that done then we wouldn't need Wi-Fi in this house at all because my computer is hardlined

1:23:13 And we have this Wi-Fi permeating all day for just this one purpose. Without having any other smart devices, it does seem like something I should be able to tackle. Can't we route it through the attic or something? But the biggest offender in my life is Bluetooth and maps in the car. I've read when your phone is in a moving car, jumping from tower to tower you get big EMF spikes and then having maps on and Bluetooth going it's not great but this episode motivated me to buy type C auxiliary cables for both me and my wife's cars A simple $10 fix And I'll have to start getting better at

1:23:56 learning my surroundings so I can get around without maps. But don't let progress be the enemy of perfection, you can get really lost in trying to perfect things in this area but at a base level we should be letting our bodies heal at night it's $10 to get an electrical timer. I have mine go off at 11 p.m and come back on at 7 am My wife and I like to listen to podcasts at night But it's not hard to turn one phone off, download the show you want to hear and put the other phone on airplane mode. These small two minute decisions on a daily basis will stack up for your health. Even my show editor wrote back after editing this one and said man I really gotta stop sleeping with my phone under my pillow! I knew i needed too but now I really know I need to And that's the thing what's the point if we don't act? Like so many things were gonna get to it tomorrow

1:24:58 And I really don't think our brains are great at thinking long term, but we need to on this. How many people who pride themselves on not getting the mRNA shot are letting the telecommunications industry destroy their health? Or how many people who brag about their clean organic diet also sleep with the phone in bed? I'm sorry it sucks that our modern world is so toxic but you can wait for the world to change or fix things inside your own environment So I hope this motivated some of us to make those changes if we haven't already, because I know I can be a bit lazy about it. I can't be the only one and I hope that as a collective group of alternative thinkers who have the discernment to see through The Big Machine's lies in lot of areas We shouldn't stop short of making those changes that will keep us around longer and healthier so thanks Nick you have found your niche and were lucky to have ya

1:26:00 And if you only heard the first free hour, some of the plus show content we got into was how EMF exposure reduces our body's ability to heal through multiple mechanisms. How EMS make us fat? How to make your tech safer my own EMF challenges I just kind of went over 5G exacerbation of EMF issues other simple things to improve your EMF exposure that don't get mentioned often We talked about some of those esoteric remediation options and Nick's thoughts on them, and geopathic stress. I'm sure there is more but that is what I can recall. And if you only hear half of these episodes that I put out well...I know I do a good job making the free show sound complete but you are missing a lot! It doesn't take much effort on your part to get plugged into hearing it all plus its good for you and helps me

1:26:59 If you can sign up for Hulu and Netflix and Disney Plus, and Apple TV. Throw a bone to the little guy trying to help you improve your life and your general knowledge and curiosity. The higher side chats dot com or click the link right there in your show notes we will auto send you the new RSS feed URL copy paste and you're done You could be doing it right now and it'd be done by the time the closing end song is over Check out theemfguy.com for a deeper dive, tell him thanks on Instagram where I think he's most active. A lot of our guests do some pretty thankless work so it's nice to know it's appreciated by somebody sometimes and before we go you know we're looking at the meetup calendar highersidemeetups.com

1:27:48 We do have one today in Forest Row, East Sussex UK at the Hopyard Brewing Company. But then July 1st we got High Springs Florida and Auckland New Zealand. July 11th Pensacola Florida at a place called Beyond The Grape looks to be a winery I would guess. July 15th Brooklyn New York. July 23rd London So great, looks like a couple of new ones on there. Feel free to add your own local meetup event higher side meetups dot com it's good to know some like minded people before you really need them but it has been crunch time for me the past 10 days I hope you liked what June brought I gotcha five Like I said, I would last day of the month but still and now I'll be a bit more methodical And that said I am getting out of here

1:28:37 Your move, EMF science deniers, telecom company protectors and electromagnetic soup stirrers. Your fucking move. Sometimes when I get down, I eat a bunch of corporate junk that makes you fat. The street is a prong! Got an addiction to the digital technology then i try to quit. See discipline is big conspiracy in every one of them