Kirby Sommers | James Blunt, Gerald Ford, Jeffrey Epstein, & Dark Hollywood

00:06 Well, Serenity Now, people, from the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood. And while we are sold a story that anyone with a dream, a little talent, and a can-do attitude can work their way up to the top of any field in the game, the more we learn about the entertainment industry and news media, as well as politics, it seems more like many people in prominent positions across our culture were literally bred for the job. They were born into specific families, put into privileged schools, plugged into the right networks, and taught how to play a role in an inauthentic, manufactured cast of characters that forms the interlocking rings of distraction and public pacification. And the more examples of this disingenuous, inauthentic role-playing that we notice, the more all-encompassing this theme and infrastructure seems to be until you start to wonder if anyone at all makes a career outside of this framework.

00:54 Many of which have had very public and visible meltdowns right in front of all of us when they realize it was always a raw deal. And it's all insulated by a tight network of agents, managers, handlers, mentors, and producers that hold the keys to the doors many think they want opened. And in the immortal words of Rod Blogojevich, they've got this thing and it's fucking golden. You think they're going to give it up for nothing? Well, today's guest, Kirby Sommers, knows about the twisted world of the upper crust firsthand. As a survivor of human trafficking and sexual slavery, she was relentlessly pursued by a billionaire connected to both the Franklin child abuse case and the Jeffrey Epstein trafficking ring. It took eight long years before Kirby was able to walk away. And when she did, she barely had 100 bucks to her name.

01:36 Today, she is an author, investigative journalist, and hosts a true crime podcast. She has over a dozen books, including a memoir of her own experience titled The Billionaire's Woman, but she has some other titles that include Ghelane Maxwell, an unauthorized biography, creating Epstein, Bill Burr, Leslie Wexner, and the CIA, Power, Money, Politics, and Sex, El Chapo and Jeffrey Epstein, Franklin Child Abuse Scandal, Leon Black, United Fruit, The CIA, and Mossad, and several others, including the main theme of the day, her own one-two punch of talking truth to power, conspiracy of silence, volumes one and two.

02:15 Well, brace yourself because it's going to get a little dark. The great hidden history educator, institutional child abuse exposer, and sleuthy string-puller extraordinaire, Kirby Sommers. Welcome to THC. My goodness, Greg. Your guest introductions are incredible, legendary, and I could hardly wait to hear what you were going to say about me. And I've got to say, I'm picking myself up off the floor. Thank you for having me on. Ah, too kind, too kind. Well, this is a treat. I'm glad we have some mutual contacts in Jeremy Roth Crushel and Andy Hunt from Control Alt History. Good guys. They told you about me. I saw the sheer number of books you'd written and how many details you covered that always seem to be missing.

02:58 And here we are. And if I were to try to highlight what makes you stand out from the other people who do this kind of research, it's that occasionally we do have something like the Franklin scandal or the Epstein thing, or we see Britney Spears or Kanye kind of unravel publicly. And they usually try to cut around these things so that they can seem like isolated incidents. And, you know, they really are cracks in the larger dam. But you do a great job of showing how this is a huge network and this is a multi-generational continuum of abuse and controlling the worlds of fame and power.

03:36 And you stand out as someone fighting against that tendency to make these all look like little isolated pockets of a problem and instead show how these things all interrelate. Do you think that's fair to say? That's very accurate. In fact, that's my main problem with other people who have written books on one or the other subject, that they narrow it down and they either claim, oh, this was one that just hunted boys, as with the Franklin scandal, and or with the Epstein thing, this was a standalone and or an H thing.

04:16 So that, for example, to just go back to mentioning Franklin for a minute, we have to recall, and few people do recall, that Larry King, not to be confused with the deceased talk show host, had access to a baby nursery, right? So that their children all ages. So yeah, I pretty much have been able to find the links to show that this preceded King, that it preceded that Cresidio thing, that it went back before Boys Town, that it continues to present day, that it is connected to various presidents, that it's connected to various intelligence agencies that it crosses the, you know, various.

04:59 various countries that it's all one thing. That would be fair to say. So we are going to mainly focus on the conspiracy of silence books, but I want to start with this recent death of Hayden Panatier because anytime an actress dies young after revealing an incident of abuse, you got to wonder if they were silenced. And then the internet took this vague story she gave and connected some of those dots to James Blunt, the musician, goodbye, my lover, and all that. He released this creepy music video right after her death, which didn't make him look any more innocent.

05:38 But you covered this material. And then after that, his account with the check mark and everything, I looked to make sure like it's got the right amount of followers. It's the account. His account actually reached out to you and it looked like a PR response that was given, but it was like, hey, Kirby, I heard you talking about this. I just want to give you the deep dive facts. And it was very cringy and weird, but it all tried to explain and do damage control how it couldn't possibly be him. Most people just ignore these things. So I found that to be weird, but this happened, right? This is probably strange to you to a degree, too, right? Actually, Luntz is the semi-last in a series of people who reach out to me, which began with Prince Andrew when he was Prince Andrew, because I was very close to Virginia Duffrey

06:28 and Isabel Maxwell and her whole family and the people they hired to, you know, play with me, putz with me, whatever. And they reach out. But no, Luntz was one of the more recent ones who pushed back, unlike other people who offer money to silence other, you know, to have people silence me. He just did it himself. And I ignored it. I shared it with my audience. You know, I just think that Hayden is sort of what a lot of celebrities are, right? Who begin as a child.

07:10 And then, of course, he doesn't want his career to get sort of sidetracked because of his connections to the incident on the yacht, so forth and so on. Right. And we obviously don't need to go into too many of the details, but you did deconstruct that post. You know, you deconstructed those deep diving facts that they gave you to show like, no, this isn't actually right. Like you're trying to create a timeline, but we have photos of you two together and other things that don't really jive. And we're never going to know. You know, it's of limited importance, really, but we do know from researchers like Dave McGowan that a huge number of musicians and celebrities come from military families as if they're assigned these roles in the entertainment world.

07:57 And you have used the term spy when covering James Blunt and his background. He is the son of a military family. His father was an Army Air Corps colonel. He himself was trained at the Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst, and served six years in the British Army as a captain. He was a reconnaissance officer during the 1999 Kosovo War. And then he altered his name and in 2002 just happened to become an international music star almost in no time at all. And this is unrelated to Hayden's death. But when James Blunt becomes the target of speculation and then you find all this other shit, it did kind of reveal what seems to be another example of that military family to music pipeline that we have seen before.

08:46 Yeah, we have seen it. And his rise was pretty much from the next day. He had a music video that did very well, but it reminds me of perhaps someone will talk about later. You know, we had the incident with Kanye West. Now, the same family, Pastor Nak will talk about as it relates to perhaps a young Jack Nicholson. So these are multi-generational, let's say, handlers for talent. And yeah, so when he reached out, I thought at least, I don't know why he just didn't let it drop because I expected a cease and desist letter or pull down your YouTube podcast.

09:33 And he just, all he did was, I'm sure he's watching and he'll watch this probably because they have their ears to the ground whenever we talk about these people. No follow-up. So I guess they hope that the person will never. bring them up again, but it just adds fuel to the fire for someone like yourself and me and others. It's like, yeah, well, you should not have reached out to me because I'm going to tell everyone. Yeah, I thought it was weird because of the tone of it. It's like, hey, just want to correct some facts.

10:14 It's like, I know you're accusing me of rape and murder, but let's just correct the record a little bit. No pressure. So that was weird. But as for the books, so the whole premise that I laid out before that this goes back a lot more than we know, I mean, you cover it really well. And let's start with Gerald Ford. For people who don't recall, he is an interesting case study. He was born Leslie Lynch King Jr. and changed his name too to Gerald Ford. And for people who forget, he was never elected president or vice president. He was appointed by Nixon after Spiro Agnew resigned, and then he was appointed to vice president.

10:57 And then Nixon resigned and then he became president without ever being voted in. And you say he was not only a 33-degree Freemason, which I'd like to know how you know, because I find it hard to find that information sometimes, but also he is connected to Lawrence King, who, as you say, people might remember as a key perpetrator in the Franklin scandal. Talk to us about Gerald Ford as a maybe a starting point. Well, you know, Gerald Ford kind of went under the radar for most people. He seemed to be a bland man, and he would have gone under the radar for me as well had I not been locked into the

11:41 similarities and the overlap between certain people, which no one else seems to have talked about between the so-called Franklin and the so-called Epstein. So when I realized that, wait a minute, not only did Larry King invite former President Gerald Ford to host a committee during the 1988 National Republican Convention held in New Orleans, but that Nick Bryant, okay, who wrote one of the two books on the Franklin scandal, and whom, by the way, I've spoken to many times because he connected with me in the early days when I began doing this in 2019.

12:30 When he wrote about this himself, but he didn't pull at that string, I thought that was very odd. So no one had pulled on the Gerald Ford connection to Larry King, and Ford was a president. And not only was he a president, but he was the president during the time that Seymour Hirsch was given the family jewels, close to 700 pages of crimes by CIA against the populace. So Seymour Hirsch initially wrote an article that ended up in the New York Times in December of 1974 about the so-called family jewels.

13:18 You know, Gerald Ford is on top of all of this. So that leads to the church committee hearings. That leads to Colby, who's connected to John DeCamp, who wrote the first Franklin book, who's also connected with two odd things, which we can talk about later if you wish. And I'm like, wait a second, there's something very important. And then I started to go down the Ford family history, realized his birth name was, like you said, Leslie Lynch King, that he was, in fact, not born in Michigan, that he was born in Omaha, Nebraska.

13:58 I start looking at who his father, real father was, who his grandfather was. And when I saw a photograph of his grandfather, having the image of Larry King, who's a black man, heavy set, and knowing a lot about him, and then understanding a lot more about Charles Henry King, who is Gerald Ford's grandfather, I saw a lot of similarities, facial similarities. I saw temperament similarities. I went back and dug up some old newspaper accounts of the grandfather and the father before he met the mother of Gerald Ford beating up their staff members back, you know, at the turn.

14:49 the, I just went on this wild thing. And I'm like, oh my God, there's so many connections between so-called Larry King, whose own history doesn't go beyond, let's say, his goes to his father, whose nickname was Poncho, which led me into Wyoming. It led me to all kinds of really weird places, and his mother. So then there just goes to another so-called Larry King. And I'm like, but then it goes dark. There's nothing there. So then I went into who hired Larry King, the father, for the job.

15:31 Because initially, when Larry King Jr. was approached to run the Franklin, let's say the savings, whatever that was. Franklin Credit Union. Yes. The job was offered to his father in 1970. That made me realize, oh, well, this family is a trusted, right? They're trusted for some specific reason. And just to cut in and give a little bit more about his background. So with the current President Trump and Epstein stuff, and even Erica Kirk, we have been seeing this weird overlap with power and modeling and trafficking and modeling, of course.

16:13 And this goes back to Gerald Ford too, as well as the military thing. You know, he's a military guy, and then he was a model and then he started a modeling agency, I believe, right? I mean, that overlap, the same stuff going on today with the president and looking at like this unsavory stuff with Epstein and modeling. Gerald Ford has a very similar thing happening too, right? Yeah, and that's a very big part of my book. And we can circle to that and begin because that modeling thing that he started, and I'm going to go into it in detail, and people who want more information can get, you know, Conspiracy of Silence on my website.

16:56 However, yeah, that modeling agency that he was connected to, you're going to pull up a photo probably of him wearing the naval uniform in 1942, I believe, on the cover of Cosmopolitan. Yeah, I have that photo. He's on the cover. And also, I just wanted to throw out his early Ford modeling, then known as Conover modeling, was right next door to the Yale Club at 44th Street in Midtown Manhattan. So very connected. Didn't just start out of nowhere with this really expensive office in prime real estate. Yeah, it first of all, there was someone, a typical biographer, who attempted to confirm whether or not Gerald Ford was the model on the cover of Cosmopolitan in 1944.

17:46 He contacted the White House. He went to all kinds of records. The documents that I was able to retrieve showed that he was getting almost nowhere until finally he made a breakthrough and discovered, oh, okay, it was Gerald Ford. Who then the story became Gerald Ford was a model. He was roommate with his friend, Harry Conover, who happens to be a gay man, okay, who was also a model with him at another agency, the Robert Powers agency that sort of existed and had a film, The Powers Girls, similar to Boys Town films.

18:31 I mean, these are all government projects, the modeling industry and the trafficking industry. They're interrelated and interconnected. So that eventually this is transferred down. And I can go back and fill in some dots if you want, but it transferred down to becoming Eileen Ford's agency. But no one would have ever found it because she's had three name changes. And there was only one newspaper document from back in the day, 1947, I believe. It's a funny year, right? The year CIA is created. Yes.

19:16 When she and another model with her name not spelled E-I-L-E-E-N, but A-I-L-E-E-N. So that I hired a kid to help me, a very smart kid in college. Hey, help me go find this, go find this, go find this. He came back and said, I found nothing. I said, it's impossible. So I went back and I looked at what he had found. I said, Look, you missed it because she misspelled her name. You've got to be, you've got to open up your eyes and realize that people misspell names for a reason.

19:53 Okay. So I leaned forward, ended up, quote, buying the coniver agency, and you know, it became Ford, right? But it then went into her daughter, right? Katie Ford, who married a very interesting man, Andre Balage. The whole thing is just all Epstein. So it's all connected. It's just, I don't even know what I've left out, but I'm sure I've left out plenty. Yeah, the whole thing is one thing. Yes. And it's hard to get to all the details, but to move on from this a little bit, but still stick with the Nixon era.

20:33 I think many JFK researchers have uncovered that Jack Ruby was previously hired as a spy/slash informant by Nixon over a decade before he shot Lee Harvey Oswald. That's weird. But I learned from you that Jack Ruby's roommate was Dr. Wilfred John Allison, who was an MKUltra doctor. And in 1962, Jack Ruby rented an apartment from John David Norman, a convicted child molester who ran a national pedo ring. Man, spying MK Ultra pedo rings and assassinations. This is like the whole conspiracy bingo card.

21:10 But what are we looking at there? How do those things interrelate? Do you think? Was it just that Jack Ruby was obviously kind of you? He was used the whole way through, but it probably starts with a little MKUltra manipulation before you really get into the pipeline. Yeah, I agree. I think that there's definitely MK Ultra. I mean, there's another photograph I sent you that shows Richard Nixon, Jack Ruby. Now, he's never identified. I was able to get this because I have high-level intelligence whistleblowers. Okay. I was able to identify him and Prescott Bush. And again, the photo was taken in 1947.

21:52 So we know that his birth name is Jack Rubinstein of Chicago. Now, the whole Chicago thing is a big deal. However, he was hired by Richard Nixon to be a spy. And, you know, back in the 1940s, when Nixon was with Eisenhower and all of that. Now, what a lot of people get hung up with as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein himself said, and this can be found in, let's say, his early interviews. He said that he met Stephen Hoffenberg through Gerald Ford's attorney general.

22:35 What's his name? John? John Mitchell. And John Mitchell, by the way, is on record as being a close friend of Craig Spence, who was Larry King's so-called business partner in the child blackmail and transportation ring. Okay, I'm going to use that word just to make it safe. However, with Jack Ruby, I found him renting from an apartment building owned by John David Norman, who is part of this ongoing network, right? I told you that this didn't begin with Epstein, it didn't begin with Franklin. There's a John David Norman

23:18 component to this. Now, John David Norman, anyone who does what we do, they might be familiar with that name. And of course, he had a partner, a kid named Pask or Pasky, however one wants to pronounce it. However, yeah, those early MK Ultra connections are fascinating. I've got receipts in my book. So I found that he had paid to John David Norman $40 deposit to rent space at 223 South E-Wing. And, you know, it was collected by John D. Moorman himself.

24:02 All of this, and I've written a lot about the JFK assassination because my abuser's family is connected to it, as is Epstein, as is Gerald Ford. And what was Gerald Ford used for? For the Warren Commission, right? To go ahead and tweak the wording so that the world would think we had a loan assassin. It was just the Harvey Oswald to change the record forever. And he did his job very well. Most of us don't believe it now, but it took a long time.

24:40 And no one has changed that fact. You know, not even Donald Trump has said that Lee Harvey Oswald, you know, didn't do it. That has stayed on the record. So Gerald Ford is instrumental in many, many different ways. And again, the whole thing, the JFK is connected to all of this. Yes. So you mentioned your own abuser, and I wanted to throw this out because it's very interesting. You told me that Paul Banassi, who was one of the kids who testified in the Franklin scandal, who was later charged with perjury, so crazy to be a kid abused by a network of people. And then the courts say, now we're going to charge you with lying. Just so wild.

25:23 But he's also the kid who named Hunter S. Thompson as the cameraman for the snuff porn that he was forced into. Nick Bryant shot this down when I brought it up. And, you know, he makes an okay point, which is like anyone can say what their name is. Like, why would a guy who's about to film a snuff porn with a child tell the child his real name? He could just use some famous guy's name. So, you know, that's probably reasonable doubt right there, I guess. But you told me that his MK Ultra handler was allegedly your abuser's now deceased brother-in-law, Congressman Gary Ackerman.

26:01 Did I get that right? Yes. And as someone who was trafficked, I can tell you that a lot of people use their real name because they don't think you would know it. So that how would, let's say, a young Paul Bonassi know a famous writer like Hunter Thompson. And so they use, you know, so I was told straight up real names that I would later discover to be, oh, okay, well, that's who it is. Yeah, I didn't care for the fact. And he does, going back to our,

26:41 I'm not going to call him a friend of mine, but going back to the way that he seems to protect Nick. Yes. Nick Bryant. How he seems to protect Hunter Thompson. Not only did Hunter Thompson write it in his own handwriting, which I sent you, but what Nick does is he also puts down Rusty Nelson, who was one of Larry King's photographers, who also claimed and announced rubbed YouTube interview that Thompson offered him $100,000 to shoot a SNUFF film, which he refused.

27:18 And then Nicole Brown, who was Thompson's one-time research assistant, wrote in her blog about the time that he threw her out of the house for refusing to watch this type of film. And then, I mean, I can also show how he also wrote in his own book because people from both the Franklin are connected to Thompson. And who, by the way, was a very close friend of Jack Nicholson. Okay. Yes. So I just want to step in here and say we are going to throw that note on the screen.

28:01 But what people will be looking at is there was a true crime writer named Ryder McDowell who wrote to Hunter S. Thompson and I guess asked him something about snuff films and Hunter Thompson. He has a pretty distinct handwriting that I'd seen before. He writes in big red sharpie underneath this. He writes, the only snuff film I know anything about is the one I did a long time ago with Jack Nicholson and Bob Raffleson. But I can't talk about that until 1995. Sorry, stay away from this subject. They'll kill you. Good luck. And that is so crazy. I am interested in this story because when I was 16, the way Hunter S.

28:46 Thompson was presented to me in the counterculture is like this kind of rebel hero. And in retrospect, I just find it interesting the way that they take people who may be the darkest of the dark and they frame them as kind of punk rock counterculture heroes that young people should look up to. And you get into it and it's like, well, he really wasn't counterculture. You showed me pictures of him with Bill Clinton. He's hanging out with a lot of these people and he always has this bag of drugs with him. And it's like, we know about those kind of people in the circle and what they tend to facilitate.

29:25 And I know that he abused animals because of, I believe, that same assistant that you referenced. She said that he often would like. beat his cat and forced his cat to ingest cocaine. And I have a real sticking point for abusing animals. I mean, maybe there's a leap to that and killing a kid in a snuff porn, but it's a lot closer than a normal person is to abusing an animal. So I found that to be interesting. But yes, you have this note, which is pretty compelling. And that'll lead us into Jack Nicholson. But this assistant that I'd heard had said this about abusing his cat.

30:05 This assistant also said that she was kicked out of the house because she had a problem watching a snuff film that he tried to put on. Yeah. And then in his 2003 book titled Kingdom of Fear, Lotham Secrets of a Star-Crossed Child in the Final Days of the American Century, I'm going to read you one paragraph. Autumn is always a time of fear and greed and boarding for the winter coming on. Debt collectors are active on old people and fleece the weak and helpless. They want to lay in enough cash to weather the known horrors of January and February. There is always a rash of kidnapping and abductions of school children in the football months.

30:50 Preteens of both sexes are traditionally seized and grabbed off the streets by gangs of organized perverts who traditionally give them as Christmas gifts to each other to be personal sex slaves and playthings. So, I mean, that tells you that he is very well aware of this world. Yes, very much so. And I'm curious who Bob Raffleson is and why he might say he can't talk about it until 1995. I tried to look up what happened in Hunter S. Thompson's life in 1995, but it is kind of curious that that's when he re-entered local politics.

31:31 If people remember the story of him running in Aspen, Colorado, because of the, there was a proposed airport expansion that he didn't want. So he ran for office. That ended 25 years of self-imposed electoral exile, as they say. So 25 years is a long time to step out of something and then step right back in in this particular year where you said that that's when you might have the statute of limitations lifted on that snuff film you made with Jack Nicholson. But do you know who Bob Raffelson is or have any idea why the 1995 year is mentioned?

32:11 Well, I certainly have information on Raffleson because I included it in my book. Let me just try to find him here if you don't mind. I know that he was sort of the person that took Nicholson under his wing and made him buy the house next to Hugh Hefner, the one with all the tunnels. Now, yes, for a little more context, I can say that he was an influential American film director, writer, and producer who helped shape the new Hollywood film movement in the 1970s. He co-created the hit TV series with the Monkeys.

32:53 He was also instrumental as a producer for Easy Rider and The Last Picture Show. And he directed several things like Five Easy Pieces I've never heard of, but he got an Academy Award nomination for that. And he was a primary mentor and collaborator for Jack Nicholson. So, yeah, that's a little bit on him. He's just another one of these Hollywood figures who makes some stuff, gets handed a lot of awards, and remains rich. Yeah, I mean, he was close to the group of actors, the Young Turks, which, by the way, included not just Jack Nicholson, Roman Polanski, Bruce Dern, Peter Fonda, but Dennis Hopper, who

33:40 we can now go back to the very first item we discussed regarding Hayden Panateer and that book, Room 23, which Dennis Hopper is in, and to whom I, too, was trafficked. So Dennis Hopper is somebody who told me his name, who in fact invited me to go to Florida, where he was going to hook up with someone I'm not going to name right now, offered to put me on the payroll, but he was completely crazy. And I just wanted him to get out of, you know, he was just a crazy, crazy dude.

34:17 However, so Rafelson convinced Jack Nicholson, according to this front story, to buy the house that ends up being on the property. property where eventually the Playboy mansion will be there and the tunnels underneath that and all of that other stuff. So he's an important guy. I always look at Rafelson as being another spook, you know, another handler, if you will. Yeah, I didn't realize that Jack Nicholson and Hunter S. Thompson were so close. I usually see him associated with, well, I've seen that picture of John Cusack, and then, of course, who played him in the movie?

35:00 Why am I blanking on Johnny Depp, Johnny Depp, of course? Johnny Depp seems to really love him and owns that club where River Phoenix died, and River Phoenix said that when he was in the cult, his first sexual intercourse was at age four or something crazy like that. It is a very tangled web. But so I wanted to talk about Jack Nicholson and the tunnels underneath the Playboy mansion because I knew about these tunnels. I've seen some of the plans, the blueprints, which we'll put up on the screen. And I had heard this rumor that the tunnels went to Warren Beatty's home, but it's a lot more than just Warren Beatty's home.

35:37 There were several homes, including Jack Nicholson's. And you told me that it was Jack Nicholson's house where Roman Polanski allegedly raped this 13-year-old girl in 1977. But talk to us a little bit about where we get to the tunnels and this area of Beverly Hills where it just seems like the spider web of tunnels from the Honeypot Mansion leads to a lot of these rich dudes' houses, these actors. So this property was developed by Howard Hughes. And Howard Hughes has notoriously been connected forever, if you're into this stuff, to CIA.

36:20 So he developed that property, which is really fascinating. You do have some of the blueprints. And also in 2015, the Playboy then Twitter account confessed that there were underground tunnels to celebrity homes that existed under Hefner's Playboy Mansion in California. So you have that tweet. Now, the tunnels were built by a guy named Bernie Kornfeld, who is Jeffrey Epstein's character, who again is connected to my abusers' family and to Hugh Hefner and to everyone else.

36:59 Now, the homes led to Jack Nicholson, Warren Beatty, Kirk Douglas, and James Kant. And it was at Nicholson's house that Roman Polanski, who was then 43, raped Samantha, who was then 13. However, there's a girl who was 10, Marianne Bernard, who was 10 years old and stepped forward not too long ago. And in fact, I've kept my eye on her. And she continues to complain that she is constantly harassed by his people, which is a normal thing.

37:35 So I'm constantly harassed, okay? And but someone else told me that her father, and I've been trying to find out the names of her birth parents, took her to Hugh Hefner's mansion when she was five. And then she was, you know, at the age of 10, horrifically molested by Nicholson's pal, Roman Polanski. So it wasn't just 13-year-old. And I tweeted the other day: when people talk about Roman Polanski, they just tend to talk, as horrible as it is, you know, he gave her a half a million dollars.

38:12 They settled. They're front-facing, good friends now, all of that. But there was a settlement, but they never talk about the 10-year-old. So there's always something fed to the public. And we're supposed to be, okay, there was a one-time deal. No, it seems to be regular stuff because if we go back to, let's say, Nicholson, I have information from a former Franklin child abuse survivor who was on one of these podcasts. And so I got the whole printout of what he was saying. And he said he was taken in a limousine to Nicholson for certain things.

38:57 Okay. So Nicholson is not just connected to Franklin, but he was then given through the Ford Modeling Agency, which we can talk about if you want to. If you're not, that's fine, with an Epstein verified Epstein victim whom he then took advantage of not that long ago and who signed, you know, she can't ever talk about it, so she does it. She signed an NDA, but she. told you about it in private, but can't talk about it publicly. No, she doesn't talk about it. She has confirmed it to a few people. Sure, she's talked about it, and I can read what she said on a podcast.

39:38 And while you're looking for that, I just wanted to throw this out because it really blew my mind. You find these people, and you're like, How did this person get into the system? And for Jack Nicholson, this is reading from what you sent me. In 1955, Jack Nicholson took a $30 per week job in MGM's animation department where he worked in the mailroom. Joe Pasternak, a producer who'd been in the film industry since the silent era, spotted his emerging good looks and gave him a screen test. You say this might have been Jack Nicholson's MKUltra handler who brought him in.

40:13 Obviously, we know that name Pasternek from what Kanye revealed. And then I was like, okay, I wonder if there's a connection between this Harley Pasternak trainer who has been a trainer to many people who suffered bad fates, including Aaron Carter and Mac Miller and Brittany Murphy. Bizarre, his client list, I wouldn't want to be on it given the track record. But he also worked in a SIOP-oriented military research center at the Defense Research and Development Center as part of the National Department of Defense in Canada. So MK Ultra adjacent type stuff. So here's Harley Pasternak. And then we have this Joe Pasternek getting Jack Nicholson into the game.

40:58 When this guy's been involved with film since the silent era, I wanted to try to see if there's a linkage between these two, and I could not really find any. Although Harley Pasternick's father's name is also Joe. Now, there's a lot of Joe's out there. No, there's a lot of Joe's, and Joe Pasternek is not his father. I went back and I was able to find a relative of both of them. Okay, I would love to know who that is. Yeah, I can go back in my notes and get that. So Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein, called Lisa Phillips, who is a survivor, and told her to go to a party with Katie Ford, who inherited Gerald Ford's modeling agency.

41:42 Okay. Katie Ford then took her to the About Schmidt premiere party where she is photographed with Jack Nicholson. So she appeared on a podcast hosted by Struggle Care, where she recounts that she has an NDA with a celebrity. I'm going to read from my book now. Phillips goes into some detail. The celebrity made a beeline toward me, wouldn't leave me the entire time. And I kept saying, no, no, get off me. And then I talked to the agency owner, meaning Katie Ford, and some friends. And she said, oh, yeah, come with me. We're going to go to a couple of parties. And I said, okay, thinking everything was normal.

42:26 And I went with her to another party. It was a super high-end party. It was really nice. And I had a good time. And about an hour later, she's like, oh, we're going to another party. And I was like, okay. And I was getting tired and stuff. And she takes me to that celebrity's hotel room. And he's got this big suite. And I'm like, that's the guy that wouldn't leave me alone. And I'm trapped here with this guy. And I was looking around and I was trying to grab my bag and leave. And so I went to the bathroom, but when I came out, Katie was gone.

43:03 So basically, Katie delivered her, just like we heard Harvey Weinstein would have women, girls, whomever, deliver to him. So this is an old practice. It's not just Weinstein, and it's clearly not just Nicholson. However, I do believe to go back to Pastor Neck. I believe Pastor Neck, who also, by the way, handled Grace Kelly and other actresses of the time, is similar to Harley. And that's why I included it in the book. Yes. So what about that family connection?

43:43 Oh, I don't have it in this computer. I'll email it to you. Okay. I'll include it in the wrap-up then because I'm very curious how those two can be connected. I don't know where I have it. I mean, this was when I was writing the book, which was about a year ago. So it'll take me more than what I discovered is that's an unusual name. And then I went through every Pastor Nak. The other thing that I do know, knowing a lot of survivors, is that they make people disappear. I mean, we know that Virginia died. Do we really know if she died? died of her own hand? A lot of people have their doubts about what happened with Virginia.

44:27 Yes, I find that to be really a suspicious death. And I've read her memoir, and I think she should have exposed a lot more than she did. Although the memoir came out after she was dead, so who knows how it was manipulated and changed. But yeah, I know you've written a ton of books. It's probably hard to keep all the connections straight sometimes, especially with such sensitive material. But I mean, so not to interrupt, but Virginia did more than anyone. I don't think any of us would be talking about Jeffrey Epstein had Virginia not talked about the men that she was lent out to in her initial memoir, which she had to rewrite to produce as a to be given to the FBI when the so-called investigation began.

45:15 There's really no investigation, okay, because it's all connected to the intelligence apparatus. Illegally, she could not mention anyone because these guys will sue. So, for example, when she outed Alan Dershowitz initially, there are some behind-the-scenes things that I don't think most people understand. No money changed hands. However, he was going to keep her in court forever. She was already being heavily, there was a lot of pushback, not just from Andrew's paid people, not just from, let's say, Alan Dershowitz himself, who, by the way, harassed me for three years using sock puppet accounts.

45:57 I've had so much pushback just for being part of trying to expose this. Well, let me ask you that. What is your goal here? Because, you know, you've written close to 20 books. You say you are harassed all the time, threatened all the time, computers hacked. I mean, if you're friends with Virginia Gufray, you seem to be like high on the list of people that they might want to get rid of. And I think like when it comes to exposing these people, there are those who will listen and those who won't. And all those who will listen are listening. And, you know, it's a conspiracy counterculture, let's say. But the ones who won't listen, it doesn't matter how much information you give them. It doesn't matter if you write another book.

46:40 Like, what is your goal here? Because in terms of justice, it just doesn't seem like from a legal standpoint, that's ever going to happen. So why put yourself at this risk? Well, first of all, I was at this risk before I ever met Virginia. You know, I met her in 2019. And the only reason I stepped into the Epstein ring, if you will, was to discover why, because there have been three attempts on my life that I know about. I had a home invasion and I was held for five days. And then my apartment was completely destroyed. I was able to escape, but the police would not come to help me. You know, so I'm supposed to be dead.

47:21 And the only reason I followed this is because there was constant interference in my life. And I wanted to, and, you know, the CIA had reached out to me. The FBI had reached out to me. I just had a series of one thing after another, after another. And so I figured, oh, when Epstein was arrested, I'm like, okay, let me just go in there. I might find the answer to why someone wants me dead. I thought maybe I'm just sitting on a secret that I don't know what that secret is. And then immediately, Virginia and I became friends. She, you know, through that, it was like, oh, okay.

48:01 And she wanted some help with certain things. I was writing real estate-related books to help people prior to doing that. And somehow, because I am always researching, it just fell into let me just make these books. Typically, they start as perhaps an article or two on my substack, which is now a best-selling substack, which I'm really happy about. And then they become books. But I'm fascinated by these connections because, again, the way you and I began this conversation was no one else has looked at it as a whole thing other than me, perhaps, you know?

48:44 And I take pride in that. I take pride in sharing what I find. I'm here. I'm really happy having this conversation with you because you're aware. A lot of people that sometimes I sit down with on their podcast, they know nothing. Or, you know, I had a conversation recently with a guy who has well over a million followers. He had me on the phone for about an hour and a half and I realized he knew nothing. And so I agree. We're never going to have so-called justice. People who keep saying, Well, when is so-and-so going to be arrested, I'm so bored of hearing this because no one will be arrested.

49:22 There is no justice, you know. These people get promoted for being part of the underbelly that I didn't see. You know, I kept seeing snippets of it. I see a hell of a lot more now, you know, as you, you've been in this for well over more than a decade, right? A decade and a half. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, now it's like, well, I like this. You know, I like seeing this connects to this. It's like a jigsaw puzzle. It can be intoxicating. So you mentioned Bob Hope in the book, too. And this is so weird.

50:00 So Andy Hunt, mutual friend of ours, control all history. It was through him that I learned about the Kozak family. So when Charlie Kirk was killed, Hunter Kozak was the guy asking him the question at the moment he was killed. And Hunter Kozak was kind of caught practicing his reaction before the event. So that, well, at the event, but before the moment of being killed. So that alone is weird. But then Hunter Kozak's father is a big-time Hollywood guy, and he is the producer or director of the Jimmy Kimmel Show, which is interesting because Jimmy Kimmel had a whole thing where he got in trouble for mocking Charlie Kirk.

50:43 But he didn't mention that his director, producer's son was there asking the question. And then if you go to Hunter Kozak's grandfather, so the end three generations, this guy was the agent for Bob Hope. And it's like, what? And then Bob Hope comes up in your book. Talk to us a little bit about what you know about Bob Hope and possibly the Kozak family, if it comes up. Well, I don't have anything on the Kozak family. I know just memory from what I wrote in this book. Now, there will be a volume three. I think I mentioned that to you, and where I'll be diving a lot more into Bob Hope.

51:23 First of all, Bob Hope, like, let's say, Charles Manson and like Jack Ruby, started his life in an orphanage. So he was one of those boys that didn't have a chance. And then we see that these boys who don't have a chance, similar to Jack Nicholson, right? He had a mother who wasn't his mother. His sister was his mother. Listen, we're watched, you know, long before there was a so-called surveillance society or whatever, they were watching all of us, right?

52:01 And so if you are vulnerable, like perhaps at one time when Bob Hope was a little boy in an orphanage, you rise. Now, we know through Bryce Taylor, who's no longer alive, she wrote Thanks for the Memories, talking about how Bob Hope was her abuser and MK Ultra handler. We also know, by the way, if you can imagine it in Eyes Wide Shut, when the character of Tom Cruise is being walked through the door, the masked man, he's wearing a Bob Hope mask.

52:41 Bob Hope had a very unique profile. And that's a nod by Kubrick to Bob Hope. Now, Bob Hope, as you know, did buy Michael Jackson's Neverland. No, no, no, that wasn't him. Burkel, Ron Burkle, not only bought Neverland, but he purchased Bob Hope's poem that was shaped like a UFO. Burkle bought many properties of many of these people that are, again, all intertwined, you know, and part of the same little group.

53:22 But Hope was a big UFO enthusiast. He believed, but he also had, you know, these shows that allowed him to travel extensively. What do you need to travel extensively in order to be a good spy? You need a nice cover. That was a great cover, right? Going to so-called entertain the troops. There's a lot about Bob Hope that I will be exploring in volume three. But yeah, he's an interesting character and that connection that you just, that's great. Yeah. I mean, it shows how it doesn't end with the person's death. It continues through the family.

54:02 It becomes a family matter. Yeah, it very much is a big family thing. I am just a simple stoner. stoner podcaster who minds his own business and stays home and just asks questions because I'm curious about how the world works. But that is wild. And I appreciate all the work that you do. The amount of books you've written is super impressive. We only really talked about two, and you have at least 10 more. Tell people a little bit more about your offerings and where they can get them and anything else you might want them to know about following up on your work before we call it in. Well, thank you, Greg. I currently have an excess of 20 books, possibly closer to 24.

54:45 I've written about everyone in the Epstein saga: Henry Durecki, Leon Black, all of the people that intersect with this. My work, while I began to sell it on Amazon, I walked away from that because, number one, I only get maybe $4 a book. And the second thing that happens on Amazon is the same kind of pushback I got when I was in real estate, where the people who don't like me, and now I have more people who don't like me, you know, because I'm exposing so much more.

55:21 So the list has grown. They leave bad reviews. So, in order to be able to write and show people more than I can share on, let's say, a platform like Amazon, I sell these only through my website as a PDF format for the time being, where I can charge a decent amount and I get to at least pay my bills because I'm no longer in real estate, right? So I have to pay my bills. I do have a newsletter on Substack. It's top 10. It has been top 10 for a very long time. I work every day. There hasn't been a day that I've taken off in more than seven years. It's satisfying work.

56:05 I've put together a lot of great pieces. And, you know, I have a channel on YouTube. People can binge on that. That's free. I have a lot of free newsletters I upload to Substack. And then my books are all on kirpysummers.com, which is my website. And, you know, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to cover Conspiracy of Silence. You know, I selected that title because of the documentary that never aired, that should have aired. And I'm like, you know, that's a great title. These people won't understand what it means. Yeah, of course. Well, I appreciate you introducing yourself to me. I definitely learned things I didn't know before, including mainly just how the template of what we see in current politics with trafficking and modeling and selected presidents seems to go back all the way to Gerald Ford as another example.

57:00 And it's just been a continuum of crazy ever since. So I appreciate you filling in some of the gaps for me. Keep doing the work you do and take care and stay safe. Thank you, Greg. Talk soon. Bye. All right, people. There we have it. As DJ Khaled used to say, another one. And kudos to our editor who really had to work overtime on this one. Had to stitch together the interview from like six different lost connections where we had to stop and start again, trying to stay in the groove. And it's not always easy, but it turned out to be pretty seamless. Big thanks to our guy in the booth.

57:42 Remember that if you only heard the free first hour, this interview goes on for another hour for plus people. We talked about Roman Polanski more and the Rosemary's baby weirdness, the idea of actual ritualistic conceiving of dark forces and drawing them down into the womb. She elaborated on why she's skeptical of Nick Bryant's authenticity. She got into her thematic findings between Epstein and the Jesuits and a crazy link with Johnny Depp's rum diaries movie and Little St. James. That was a bit of a mind-blowing sink no one had found before to my knowledge.

58:21 And we got into some weird stuff with a preview of her upcoming exposure of Whitney Webb and this idea that this anonymously posted thing you can find out there, this criticism of Kirby and casting doubt on her backstory, it's called Kirby, Your Enthusiasm. I did kind of like the pun on the title, but she says it was written by Johnny Venmore at the request of Whitney Webb, which is a wild thing. But three previous THC guests catching strays, not even strays, directly aiming at three of THC's previous guests. I don't like to see that.

59:01 And look, I try to stay neutral on this sort of stuff. stuff. I'm not about censoring what any guest says, but my interest is in chipping away at my understanding of how these networks operate and how far they actually stretch and who's involved and how dark it really gets. If you are a researcher in that realm doing the best you can, I'm on your side. I champion your cause. But any researcher in this space also knows how dirty and murky these waters are. And you can't blame anyone for being skeptical and wondering why a person who is considered an expert in a certain area or a certain case won't cover this side of things or always talks down one aspect of a thing or says that there's nothing to the rumors that they could find, et cetera, et cetera.

59:52 And sometimes there really is nothing to a certain rumor when a researcher goes looking. But that's always going to have an effect on the audience where some people who want to believe it are going to say, well, what are you covering up for? Limited hangout is a thing. It sucks to be called that, but it happens to everyone in this space at some time or another, including me. When I start thinking down paranoid trains of thought in that regard, I try to remind myself that a journalist could choose to cover anything, even sports, if they wanted to.

1:00:31 They would get much more reward for their work, probably, and much less trouble. So to cover international child trafficking rings and hidden networks of power, that's a choice and one that many consider risky. And so if it raises general awareness, I will take the good with the bad and give everybody the benefit of the doubt and show them respect for putting themselves out there in an area where only so many people are ever going to be able to hear what they're saying because of their own cognitive dissonance and wanting to believe it's not true. So you're already talking to a niche audience of people who can handle that kind of truth.

1:01:10 And we can just accept that, thank them for their work and argue about the minute details later when we've got more people on board, I guess. And after what we've seen in the last two years over Epstein and Ghulane, I just think that we got to be realistic that exposure of any kind is good. Making people more aware of the corruption and dirtiness under the system is good. But we're probably never going to get much more than a satisfaction of our own curiosity. Knowledge for knowledge's sake. So bring it on. I'll just take what you got.

1:01:50 And it will require some speculation and personal discernment. And if we like a handful of researchers whose work and conclusions aren't completely aligned, I can accept that and just let it be okay. We know many mainstream researchers cannot see into the conspiracy even a little bit. So let's not forget there are layers to that too. There's this whole conspiracy slider thing Gordon used to talk about. There's some journalists that are like conspiracy light, and they are still being genuine. And some go all the way to 11 and actually are just doing it for attention and aren't being genuine. So what's worse? You're never going to get out of having to think for yourself.

1:02:32 So with that said, Kirby voiced some of her reservations and gave us a whole extra hour's worth of good stuff. Big thanks to her. Check out her books. She did a great piece on Robin Williams, actually, that if you look at the woman from the brutal McMartin preschool case, Mrs. Doubtfire definitely seems to be modeled after her. An homage, one might say, or making light of the situation or making a comedy out of a tragedy. And then Patch Adams, there's a lot of people saying that he might not have been as squeaky, clean, and heroic as presented in that film or professional.

1:03:12 He seems, when I see the actual pictures of the real guy, a lot more unhinged than the film portrayed. So you have two films where it seems like he's portraying or glorifying or playing off of these child abusing monsters, potentially, allegedly, at least in the Patch Adams case. I don't know how much is confirmed, but regardless, then you find out that he divorced his first wife to have a relationship with his nanny, who he married, and she is the one who produced these two films, amongst others. But what does a nanny know about producing movies? I don't even know what a producer does half the time.

1:03:53 Funded, I thought. Does the nanny have the funds to keep the people in the team all on track? seems very curious. The money or the skills. It's not really a skill set of a nanny. This is just what I dug up following the trail that Kirby left. But I don't know if it's blackmail or entrapment. I can't really tell, but I loved Robin Williams and did consider him a unique, singular talent. But I am compelled by this angle that she is looking at him from. Oh, and I can't recall which side of the free plus split this landed on, but we had a discussion about this pretty crazy coincidence that Joe Pasternak is a candidate for a young Jack Nicholson's handler.

1:04:40 And then we have the situation where Kanye exposed his trainer and fitness coach, Harley Pasternak. And his father's name is Joe too. But it's clearly two different people. But she said she did find a common link, but she had to get back to me with that info. And she actually did. I'll just put up the screenshots here because I'm not exactly sure what these are from. One looks like a screenshot to Candace Owens' email tip line. But what Kirby said in the email to me is this: Candace Owens reads my work, but has cited me only one time. I tried to retrace my steps when connecting Joe Pasternik of Jack Nicholson and others to Harley Pasternak.

1:05:21 A common ancestor appears to be Boris Pasternick, Dr. Chivago, who won a Nobel Prize in 1958. The second screen image was sent to Candace by a woman who went on a date with Harley years ago, at which point he told her his grandfather had won a Nobel Prize. That is interesting. I just am curious how Kirby got this email. Maybe this woman sent it to both of them, but she goes on to say, it should be noted that Candace discovered his mother married into the Pasternick family, whereupon it appears Harley then began to use the name. That said, Boris was CIA and producing CIA propaganda films. Hope this clarifies the Pasternek connection. Let me know if you need any further info.

1:06:04 So she made good on that, and I appreciate her getting back to me. You do wonder about these strange names and these multi-generational efforts. And it seems like this family might have been assigned into the MKUltra handler role. And for two or three or more generations, that might have been the role, just like that Kozak family being there, Charlie Kirk's assassination, and then his dad working with Jimmy Kimmel's show, and then his dad working with Bob Hope, as we also, I think, talked about in the plus show. I just did the Trump hand thing. I don't know why. Sorry about that. I never know what to do with my hands, but she does like to be laser focused on what the content of an interview is going to be.

1:06:48 And I think on my end, I really just had too much stuff that I was trying to fit in that I got into. And she does better with a narrower scope because she wants to have all the facts in front of her. I get it. She's written a ton of books. It's got to be hard to keep it all straight. But I read two of her books, almost three if you count the memoir, and then a couple of articles and listened to just so much other stuff too. And I appreciate her dealing with my questioning being a little all over the place, given how prepared she tries to be. But it's hard because there's just so much to cover, so many connections to keep straight. And it's really high stakes to not be accurate about this stuff. And we can only know what we can know, which isn't a lot anyway.

1:12:31 And some will say, this dude is so lame, it's a flat out zero. I think it was a much more polarizing show, even than today's, really. I think we're all on board with Hollywood is sick and politics is sick. Let's just see how sick it is. But regardless, that one, even with that caveat, we locked in at a 4.7, still on the top shelf. I love it. You know, I didn't even comment really on the biggest part of that show, which was in the plus hour. And that was his lengthy story that he went from planning his suicide to synchronistically, essentially, accidentally manifesting the same accident he was planning and then being completely transformed by an NDE.

1:13:17 It was pretty powerful. And I thought it was very raw. And I appreciated his honesty. I'm not trying to go right into another plus pitch, I promise, but I just forgot to even mention how wild that story was. And I'm sure he's talked about it many other places that you can find for free if you look it up. But I sniffed it out and I had to ask because I really wasn't sure. I thought that he had an experience because even just the stupid kidney stone debacle that I went through over the summer and getting put under three. three times for surgeries and then having a few weeks of dick pain.

1:13:54 It's humbling. You start thinking about your problems and what really even is a problem. And when it's over, I definitely was very zen for a while. My kids couldn't bother me. My wife couldn't argue with me even if she wanted to. And I mean, I wear fun shirts like this now, right? You never saw that from me before. I was just really thankful for my health and had my happiness, and everything else was just a minor inconvenience. Of course, and then the Jay Dyer thing brought me right back to Earth. And that time also made me realize that because so many people depend on me, I can't fuck up. I can't get hurt or be sick or end up in the hospital again or worse because I'm the front line, baby.

1:14:38 Happy to serve. But regardless, not the point. And that was a small thing. Scale that up to the level of Dr. Bush's story, and he's got to be perma blissed, you know, permastoned, as they say. And he just doesn't give a fuck if you can hear the message that he is here to give. He really seems like another example of a person who had a traumatic experience and evolved past all the things that the rest of us still struggle with. Ego and stress and judgment, everything. I truly think these kinds of people, these wounded healers, these types who come back from an NDE or have this consciousness download experience sometimes all the time, they are modern mystics and the best thing we have

1:15:30 to a wise man, the best analog to a shamanic spiritual advisor, just in our weird Western context. And I just loved it. And I was very thankful to get that interview. 4.7 means you think I did a pretty good job with it. And that's good to know. And lastly, the meetup calendar, where two or three, hopefully more, gather in my name and the love of the stuff we get into around here. HiresideMeetups.com, no catch. It's just a free service, I guess we would say, to try and make what is usually a solo listening experience something more actionable and communal.

1:16:09 And here are the events that are on deck. This weekend, Sunday, October 11th, St. Paul, Minnesota, Blackstack Brewing. We also have, same day, Hudson, New York, Upper Depot Brewing. October 26th, North Coat Point, Auckland, New Zealand, North Coat Tavern. November 8th, LA at the Trails Cafe. And November 13th, Quartzite, Arizona at Quartzite Improvement Association. That's the International Truth Expo. I guess this is maybe a side event they're trying to get going. Okay, well, if you're going to the expo or not, you can also maybe go to this meetup. And then November 14th, Raleigh, North Carolina at the Raleigh Brewing Company. All right. Well, I appreciate the work that Kirby does.

1:16:53 I got my hands on a new part of the elephant, as they say in this one. And I think that's a beautiful thing. Thank you for listening. Take care, you and yours. I've done my part. Your move, celebrity Satanists, trauma cycle continuers, and abusive and entitled bastards of the billionaire class. Your fucking move. And you gotta listen to the boss. Buy the flowers, ring the doorbell.

1:17:36 Tell her we're sorry for her loss. Cause it looks like we got another suicide with their hands tied behind their back. Another case of calling it in on life after saying they'd never do that. Just one more unfortunate accident at a very untimely time. Can you believe so many folks seem to inconveniently die?

1:18:16 I used to ask myself the same thing. How normal is this, honestly? But now when the man nods my way, I just nod back modestly. It's not a threat, it's not a bribe per se, but I got the message somehow. And no matter what the wife racks up, there's always money in the bank account. So it looks like we got another baby. break in here. Random robbery that just went bad. The victim was supposed to testify soon, but now they won't be doing that. Just one more unfortunate accident

1:19:01 at a very untimely time. Can you believe how often inconvenient folks tend to inconveniently die? This is bigger than either of us. The machine keeps chugging along. There doesn't seem to be any way I know to write this kind of wrong. But if you're having second thoughts, if you wanna quit, you should. We can always find another guy with benefits this good.

1:19:45 So it looks like another situation where the accelerator's stuck. It's rare to happen on these cars today, but sometimes it's just bad luck. Just one more unfortunate accident at a very untimely time. Can you believe so many inconvenient folks seem to inconveniently die?