Joshua Cutchin & Timothy Renner | Bigfoot, High Strangeness, & Odd Folklore

00:00 Embrace yourself, because you're about to dive into another free first hour episode of the Higher Side Chats. And we just want to let you know that whether your looking for a companion through your paranoid insomnia, entertaining yourself through one of life's mundane activities or trying to ward off the internal screams from all those sad smothered souls around the office THC is here and you should know that every episode of the higher side chats has an entire second hour for plus members Sign up at thehiresidechats.com and you'll get years of plus show archives, lifetime forum access a special invite to Greg Carlwood's monthly joint sessions MP3s of THC music bonus episodes tour videos and 10% off t-shirts grinders And whatever else ends up in The Hireside Store It's $8 a month that you won't miss so become a Plus member and treat yourself in these troubled times always action packed and commercial free

00:51 Which means you'll unfortunately never hear my voice again. 1930s President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the fireside chats His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. I'm Greg Carlwood These are the Hireside Chats. Here we go, Hireside Chatters! How the hell are ya from sunny San Diego? I'm Greg Carlwood trying to bring relief to a world on fire one pail of podcasting water at a time

01:41 While we've all heard the old quote that we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used to create them i wish you were better at keeping in mind. So often we find ourselves retreading the same intellectual ground for medical science to political strategy and then one wonders why we have this heavy sense of stuckness The same problems and patterns resurface but we rarely seem to graduate from them. And often it's because we've yet to truly go back to the fundamentals and approach topics with fresh eyes in a new way of thinking." Well, it is true for Bigfoot as it is for fiat currency and luckily our guests today are excellent researchers at least one of those things. For me it is time we evolve our thinking on big foot no pun intended

02:28 And while some might wonder why a bigfoot show is the offering on the table given everything 2020 has thrown at us, I would argue that most of us have dug in firmly on our opinions at this point so what more do we need to know? If our mental attention is currency let's not make the rich any richer. Besides our good friend and podcast world ally Joshua Kutchin has a new book out and so we do what we do and talk about it It's called where the footprints and high strangeness and the big foot phenomenon volume one folklore. And today josh is joined by his co-author for this latest book fellow podcaster in paranormal enthusiast timothy renner, him also did the illustrations for where the footprints end and has written several books of his own including beyond the seventh gate bigfoot in pennsylvania big foot west coast wild men and don't look behind you

03:21 Is podcast is called strange familiars and it's great to have him here as well let's dive into the proverbial one two punch of paranormal podcast gas the crypto zoology course correctors making bigfoot weird again josh and tim welcome to the higher side. I have a pleasure always like whenever i release the book to catch up. Kind of you say it is really great to have you back obviously i love your other books we've had some great conversations about them in previous shows and tim it's a pleasure to have here as well, end so that intro was trying to make the point that in a lot of these areas the cultural conversation tends to go in circles because with certain things like the paranormal effects consciousness and of course cryptozoology

04:06 Humans tend to try and twist the subject until it halfway halfway fits into their worldview rather than adapting their worldview and paradigm to fit new information. And it seems like that was the major theme here, kind of the catalyst for writing this book. Let's take the weirdest craziest Bigfoot accounts and try to examine this mystery from that wider perspective rather than selectively editing down the cases until they fit what we want Bigfoot to be. Would you say that was kinda the inspiration here fellas? Pretty much yeah it was taking a kind of holistic look at the phenomenon and you know when i got into it. It was in my mind as i think many people's minds bigfoot is some undiscovered animal, and that's the approach i took when i got into mostly i mean i was aware from start there with weird stuff associated with bigfoot settings ufo strange lights and so forth but the line that i was given

05:07 Buy your sort of flesh and blood cryptic to all just was that the weird stuff with big foot it rarely ever happens is really a rarity, that this stuff happens and then when you start to scratch added little bit you find very quickly that. It's not a ready at all this weird stop pops up around bigfoot constantly. And josh what do you think what would you say is the elevator pitch or the mission statement u had going into this thing actually was Not at all looking into writing another book when tim approach me about this but we made the pitch i was like okay cuz i just had twins are getting ready to have twins here. And i just knew that wouldn't have enough time so i cranked it out and i think, i have a very dear friend named greg bishop who hates for me to use this as a point of comparison because of how great jock is but i think sort of the best way to sort of

06:00 give people an idea of how this book sits vis-a-vis the big phenomena is to compare it to Jacques Vallée's Passport to Magonia and the sort of position that Passport to Magonia occupies in the UFO discourse. It's finally looking at folklore through an unironic lens, and saying well how does this resonate with a lot of these modern day sightings? So that's not really comparison in terms of quality to Vallée because I mean heaven knows he's such a writer and an excellent thinker but in terms of the goal of this book has i think is really been sort of trying to reframe some of these big foot phenomena. In other disciplines that we normally would not consider because you know so much of the community is really obsessed with the idea that bigfoot is a flesh-and-blood hominid

06:48 Yes worthy goal passport to mcgonigan moment for big but as it were definitely a worthy goal. And i guess i would ask you guys what do you think it is that has kept this moment from happening sooner is it just humans getting in our own way again how does this, Kind of stuff affect the crypto zoology community in particular same as the apology community i'd assume there's a lot of parallels but why hasn't this community caught up, i think that there is such an earnest desire to be acknowledged by the scientific communities that it becomes more prudent to throw out these.

07:29 Hi strange outliers that is actually try to engage with them i mean bigfoot is a hard enough sell as a giant undiscovered monkey and you know ufo's are hard enough so it was being spacecraft from other planets. You know you can only compound the difficulty of trying to get people to engage with these topics by saying yeah and they also disappear and there's a lot of stuff in the ufo contact experience that looks like spirit contact people really start to roll their eyes i really think it's from this real desire to sit at quote unquote big kids table. Oh science i think that really is what motivates a lot of people but you know for me and i think i speak for ten minutes regard too,

08:07 It really is disingenuous to say we need to believe witnesses and then toss out. Well, the witness also said that the Bigfoot was holding a glowing orb or something along those lines if you believe witnesses you believe witnesses full stop yeah I think that's a great point and ten i know you're out in pennsylvania and you've written about weird stuff in that area before this book release of pretty wild bigfoot sighting in the intro that, pretty much checks off most of the weird boxes and sort of. acts as the quintessential weird bigfoot experience can you talk to us about this case a bit for people who have maybe been tainted by that selective editing process researchers have been serving them up in the past and maybe aren't aware of how much context has been left out when we think about big foot traditionally yeah well this was

09:00 When does i start writing the book we had plenty of meetings back and forth but i think pretty early on we agreed if there's one case that sort of the best representation, off the kind of stuff were talking about this is case from county pennsylvania in nineteen seventy three. And the case begins with a ufo sighting bunch of different witnesses i think something like ten different witnesses or something see a red or orange depending on who you ask globe in the sky. And this descended into the farm field of the main witnesses at parents farm and believe, add heat proceeded to get in his truck with some two neighbor boys and they went up to see what happened when this thing appeared to land

09:46 No one may see it on the ground is no longer red or orange describe as a white kind of dome like shape that's either landed on the ground hovering just above it and observing this. Whatever it is i hesitate to say craft but this object thats glowing in the field and what are the kids points out to the main witness quality That there are two creatures coming towards them and they observe these two bigfoot creatures that are walking along a fence line your eyes are glowing i think green. I do so many different color going out in the background sometimes forget which case has which color and make it strange kind of bellowing utterances and,

10:31 Sounds like a crying baby i believe in there's no smell associated with them they said something like, i believe it was burning rather smelled like burning car something some kind of bad burning rubber i think yeah and. He proceeded to shoot them with no reaction at least the first time he shot him he shot a tracer above their head or alongside your head number one creature is that reached out as if you're trying to grab the tracer And then he actually shot the creature when they considered to proceed to me so you sure hit it but it sounded like a firing into upon this kind of watery sound that is fire intonate otherwise didn't react.

11:12 They got out of there called the police the police called an investigator named stan gordon who is still investigating today wonderful investigator from pennsylvania. And during this time in nineteen seventy three and seventy four they were having a really big flap of ufo and bigfoot sightings all across pennsylvania, and stand was the main investigator given his name to the police so when i please got these strange calls or cases phone them made often cost ten I think this all happened about 10 at night and Stan and his investigation team were out there by one in the morning. The witness had proceeded back to the location with a police officer when he fired into the creature, I think he said it bellowed in that dome like shape disappeared so didn't fly away didn't take off into the sky just blinked out and disappeared when the policeman went back with the witness there was a ring glowing on the ground where this object had been hovering or where it was landed

12:10 That was bright enough to read a newspaper by the policeman said so very very bright still glowing there they saw the creatures again qualchit fired again this time the creature did react and kind of charge towards them but they beat it out of their. So Stan Gordon's on the scene by 1 a.m.. The following morning they go back to the location with the witness the witness has this event happen where he starts howling and roaring and sort of making these inhuman Sounds, and he's running around like a madman Around the field And his own father said he thought that his son had been possessed By one of the Bigfoot creatures The way was acting He eventually passes out They help him from the field

12:53 He comes to and one of the most interesting things he comes to me hand him his glasses and i don't need those. He doesn't recognize sunglasses and said you doesn't need them but when it was out in this sort of altered state or whatever reason, you have a contact like vision of a grim reaper type figure coming to him and telling me that the world's gonna end unless mankind straightens out. Is there anything new for from your phone contact these again and again His whole life is completely changed by that he was not a believer in anything unusual or paranormal before this. And after the experience of different side effects and has these predictions of the future i come to him that seem to be coming true, add a few weeks after the event he's visited by these two figures one of them is dressed like an air force officer

13:45 another's in a suit, and they either outright claim or at least suggest that they are there on behest of Stan Gordon. They show the witness some pictures—he said they showed him pictures of Bigfoot creatures and UFOs—and they asked him if he would be willing to be hypnotized. They hypnotize them, and years go by. Some years later, Stan Gordon gets the idea that I want to hypnotize this witness and see if we can get any more information from him And ask them if you would submit to hypnosis and he says will your hypnotize me and tell stand the story of these two. Strange figures is mad in black like figures that can come in hypnotism a few weeks after the event so,

14:31 layers and layers and layers of strangeness all rolled into the single case is absolutely fantastic example of the kind things were talking about as regards what. Yeah what i can understand why all that happened around this giant monkey it just doesn't make any sense to me well you know what i'm thinking in, i am glad u open the book with that and could tell the story here there's so many weird details not only does he not need his glasses he doesn't recognize them and the most interesting thing to me is those after effects and i'm glad you highlighted those as well i wonder how big. The hole in the research is when it comes to following up on experience there's later to see if they did have prophetic dreams or a possession spell or an mib visit we don't typically think of that way because all you had a weird sighting of an animal but no this is a paranormal

15:26 Cover for something strange because if we're going to the jacques bolay thing he talked about a lot of ufo things as a projection of some sorts so this is just another skin, or some projection then you would expect it to have the same effects later because it really affects people's consciousness and weird ways in. I guess, I would ask how big do you think that hole is? Do you think there's a lot of after effects in this field or research that have probably been missed the need to be reopened. I think that there are a lot of peripheral things have happened to a lot of these Bigfoot witnesses especially habituators people who have longitudinal experiences with Bigfoot on or around their property. I think that there is a lot of peripheral phenomena that get underreported we're only sort of now starting to see UFO

16:14 community opening up about the high strangeness that surrounds all these ufo sightings now they're willing to talk about oh yeah after my experience i had poltergeist activity in my house or have these profound synchronicity stuff that doesn't really fit with the extraterrestrial hypothesis and i think. The bigfoot community is coming out a little bit more in favor of discussing those things reminded of my good friend michael into, long time ago said that, you know a lot of nuts and bolts UFO researchers won't talk about the weird stuff until you get them to the bar after the conference and then get couple drinks in them. And then you start to hear these weird stories, these stories that just seem like they're more super normal or supernatural than they are extraterrestrial. The similar thing is happening in the Bigfoot community from what I understand. I think there was at one point –and probably still with larger Bigfoot research organizations–

17:06 effort to deliberately suppress a lot of these strange aspects, but I think that in Tim feel free to confirm or deny this in your opinion. But I think that the community is becoming much more open about discussing these strange aspects. I don't know if this book could have been written 10 or 15 years ago it should have been written 10 or 15 years ago, but yeah, it seems like we're having a moment for weird Bigfoot And i wonder if it's just not sixty seventy years of casting footprints and ignoring the weird stuff kinda leading to not many answers. And people are just kind of breaking in the world we ignored the weird stuff long enough now we have to dig in i'm not sure

17:55 And josh you mentioned my clallen and yes he has a great book all the messengers all about owls in this whole paranormal space i had him on here, gotta be a couple years ago at this point but another good point that comes up in your book that maybe even complicate things further is it there very well could be a wild man lineage or maybe just an archetype out there But using the analogy that mike uses in his work i was a real but sometimes our imagery is also used by something else that's behind this weird stuff and there could be a parallel their that maybe almost both are true in a sense.

18:37 Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of have to at least entertain that idea because as much as we're talking about the weirdness that surrounds a lot of these Bigfoot sightings. There are aspects of these big foot sightings that are 100% out of any primate textbook. You'll see things like dermal ridges on the footprints and mid parcel breaks things that are very specific to primate anatomy. You'll find reports of people stumbling upon Bigfoot and The Bigfoot's hair standing on end which is a common threat display it's called pillow erection the common threat display amongst higher primates. So obviously, there's got to be some sort of interplay with the natural world in this respect I think that probably a little bit more charitable of the idea of a flesh and blood Bigfoot than Tim is at this point even though i think i started out

19:26 A little bit weird and then ten was in as we are doing somehow we can't each other in the night so that now i'm kind of what is always going to like leave a foot in the door for the flesh and blood primate. Because let's be honest with don't really have any idea what is going on i think the most yeah the most terrible thing you can say is that if this is literally a, undiscovered or a relic population of hominid. It has some strange attributes that we are just not prepared to discuss in terms of our current materials paradigm. King of evolution, if that's the case Yes and on so many topics i find myself drifting back and forth as well because you wanna come to one conclusion menu here a story that blows that conclusion up in sale okay maybe i'll go back over here but there's just so much weird data out there of course when we grew up seeing the patterson footage and watching harry and henderson it's definitely gonna have an effect on us thinking this is a flash and blood creature so

20:28 Yeah i understand why that would keep coming around in your mindset about how to look at this thing but man there's definitely just too much other weird stuff that can't be denied. We have to accept the possibility that there might be multiple scenarios at play but just throwing out the strange stuff doesn't really do anybody any favors sorry can you about something well i was gonna say the other thing that i was kinda told as i was getting into this and kind of poke it weird stuff with that. East coast bigfoot cases are weird and west coast bigfoot cases are natural animals and

21:05 The further east you go the weirder the cases get until you get to pennsylvania and this is like king of the weird bigfoot stuff but. It's really not true there's where big foot stuff all over including plenty of work but stop from that pacific northwest. When it comes to high strangeness that accompanies these sightings, you relay a lot of different sighting stories. Obviously they can be wildly different their own special snowflakes and all that but what are the major themes on the checklist? Obviously that first story hit on several of them orbs of light, possession aspect and MIB like visit in the aftermath What other theme seem to come up more and more as you dug into this thing

21:47 One of the things that is consistently stuck in my car for a while is the similarities between poltergeist infestations and bigfoot class b reports so if anybody isn't aware this term the class B report is a term with a big foot field research organization has used to catalog Things that happen in the forest that are odd and highly suggestive of sasquatch but no sasquatch is actually seen and these can include. Rock throwing noises would knocks footprints etc. But if you take all those different things that people attribute to Sasquatch when they're in the woods and put them in a house centered around, for example, a prepubescent girl. You've got a poltergeist to the extent that sometimes these rocks are thrown at people in the woods are warm to the touch now of your more primatological way of thinking you say oh well the big foot was holding a rock in its hand and that's why the rocks warm and then it throws up the person but

22:43 It's interesting that without fail, these rains and showers of stones that happen during poltergeist infestations are often hot or warm to the touch as well. And there is precedence for all these other things. These knocks and wraps are one of the most common manifestations of poltergeist activity particularly in seances it used to find during the spiritualist tradition. And believe it or not, plenty of seances where people saw manifestations of large hairy hands or in some extreme examples, large man creatures are men things covered in fur. So there's this poltergeist aspect which kind of I think is interesting because it sort of

23:20 threads its way through several of the different topics. A lot of different paranormal entities have been attributed with this, you know, the stone throwing, the lithoboldy as it's called behavior including fairies and there's an entire chapter dedicated to fairies, the extraterrestrial connection which is something I would've never put together ghosts. And then Tim's real areas of focus are sort on window areas and gifting in this whole woman in white archetype which is something that really blew me away the first time I noticed it but There are definitely these things that find their way through all these different topics the stone throwing the knocks. The vocalizations the ability to phase through matter or two blink out of existence and disappear all these things occur in each of these different subjects interesting enough another topic you know why we haven't ever killed a big foot,

24:09 Is because in almost every account i say almost every because there's some cabbie us to be made their but it almost every account people should these things and they don't even react you know what the injured or something that just literally act as if nothing is happening. And you'll find that sort of bulletproof aspect manifesting itself in old world witch literature, where people would fire a musket ball at the witch's chest and the musket ball would be destroyed or somebody would try to cut a witch's hair with some scissors and the scissors will become completely mangled and ruined. So this idea that these creatures are impervious – they just don't seem to have this real physical component is something that comes up time and time again in all this literature

24:47 Yes i think that's a great breakdown and i think it's wildness guys as you put it but that's really great, connection to make because people been looking at the stuff for so long but they haven't really realized that the biggest difference between poltergeist themes and bigfoot themes is that your either inside or outside because like you say the wrapping sounds throwing of rocks around. Happening mainly after nightfall those are pretty big similarities and probably shouldn't be discounted. Another good example is one that tim is going to be diving into quite a bit in volume two which is already laid out we just got up together now,

25:26 are these balls of light. You see a ball of light in the sky, it's a UFO. You see a ball of light dancing across the countryside in Ireland, it's a fairy. You see a ball of light inside an old house and it's a ghost from a haunted house. And you'll see a ball of light in the woods and believe or not there is actually a lot of connections between Bigfoot and these mysterious orbs of lights so I've often thought that it's kind of attractive to approach these ideas as sort of a pan-paranormal possibility that there might be one phenomena behind all these things I'm not sure i like to leave some room for myself to be wrong on that but i think the very least. There is significant overlap in the venn diagrams of each of these different topics i think that's why i'm attracted to the idea of window areas because if you could say it's a window to the imaginative realm or the imaginal, or something that up no probably fits and patrick harper's book it's like

26:20 That makes a lot of this other stuff make sense because why wouldn't many things fall out of the imaginable realm and into this one. I don't know that's kinda why i'm attracted to idea cuz everything is so very. One of the reasons that I think that this collaboration between Timothy and I work so well is that, I'm mostly the guy looking for old dusty books and ancientarchive.org pages of finding all these old books and making those interdisciplinary connections but Tim actually has a great amount of fieldwork under his belt and I'm super jealous because he happens to live in what I would, I don't know if he would but I would call his little slice of America sort of window area in it itself

27:03 Yeah, I'm lucky to live where i live and be interested in this kind of stuff for sure. Well that was gonna be one of my questions for you and our listeners would be extra interested because you are in pennsylvania You talk about your county which borders the sasquahanna river And we have a semi-regular guest who talks about the magical potency and the synchronicity potency of the sasquahanna river long legacy it has of people performing rituals and offerings to the river goddess and so that sort of thing fitting within a paranormal hot spot we could say is.

27:45 Very appropriate i think that makes a lot of sense but i guess i would ask you what has your field research and just living in that area what kind of insights is that giving me that maybe someone who doesn't have field research. What have like what did you learn from getting out the books and into the real environment i mean a lot, talk about window areas the chapter i have in the book called the company they keep Is about an area of eight to ten square miles in your county along the river rail on susquehanna there where i started looking at bigfoot report you know track and old report from a paper back in eighteen eighty. And then i noticed how many reports i was getting for this area and i, track these reports through the years and what is a lot of big foot report for this area

28:38 So I started really looking at the area and digging in, and two things became apparent. First of all there's no wilderness there in which a breeding population of giant ape men could live and hide. There are some woods there, some beautiful hiking trails but you know what? Breeding population of giant apes creatures like this is nothing therefore it's no place for them to hide There's probably enough food, I guess. Although the environmental impact would be pretty evident if there was a breeding population of giant ape creatures there but... There is definitely no place for them to hide so i'm left with these questions like well what's going on? Are they coming through? You know are they nomadic? A lot of the flesh and blood research says that well they're nomadic Well im getting reports from all times of year So that doesn't make sense for a nomadic creature Why are they in winter and summer And then

29:38 I started noticing all this other weirdness as i'm looking at bigfoot cases i'm asking around in the area and people like oh yeah you know. My cousin's all big foot here in nineteen seventy five or whatever but this house is haunted, Oh ok and there's a ghost story here and there were spiritualist that lived in this house and. They would do automatic writing and they said pirate sailed up to susquehanna buried treasure in the area, add your photos settings again is all the stuff in this eight square mile area and i just started thinking there's a lot of weird stuff here for it not to be connected

30:14 And at some point i was just casually this is long before we ever started working on the book is casually talking to josh about it and he said, you know very often to me so tim look at the company these things keep them in the game that title for that chapter. But it's a lot of wisdom to it and I started just thinking about it like wow this is how rare is that the big foot how rare is that you are so. Now we're talking about multiple instances of people saying both in this eight to ten square mile area there's also a nuclear power plant dropped in their all kinds of just strange strange stuff there, so that was a major factor for me kind of backing away from that flesh and blood hypothesis getting into more this weird idea

30:57 So between that and also talking to witnesses on a regular basis, Josh touched on this. I think it's important to point out that if a hunter sees a creature walk by when he is in the tree stand or somebody is driving down the road and bigfoot crosses infront of them, I don't blame those people at all for thinking they are natural creatures. All the information they got at the moment they saw was there was a natural creature walked across my vision and walked into the woods or whatever happened What is the people that have these repeating counters and without fail when i start asking them what else happens what else happen to help others weird lights we saw orbs this is this happened there's poltergeist activity at my house really just a checklist you can go through so it.

31:45 very very valuable to have that boots on the ground experience i think when you talk to these people and they just start opening up then until once they know it's safe, what's the note you don't think their crazy for seeing a big foot open up and tell me about the other stuff again. I can't think of any instance where people had repeating counters that i've talked to him but haven also experienced other weird stuff with bigfoot. Right yes repeat experiences another commonality with other slices of paranormal pie for sure And it wouldn't make sense in the context of a question blood creature you know you could say there's a lot areas where bears are mountain lions are rare but if i have one family is seen about line every week then something definitely up and.

32:30 Josh you have a great story that kicks off your section on the very folk l'oreal overlap we could say because it has my favorite magic words subterranean layer and this comes from june ninth eighteen fifty seven edition of salem's weekly oregon statesman really going to the archives for that one but can you tell us a little bit about this particular case Actually this was brought to my attention by ten minutes it sounded in another book on large hairy giants where they really weird washed everything out of all the strange aspects but there was a young boy.

33:11 who was overnighting in the forest with an adult and he heard this long sort of loud plaintive cry in the forest. And this hairy man beast about 13 or so feet high steps out, and it says that had eyes that glowed like liquid balls of fire. This hairy man thing which obviously given that its Oregon and is tall and a hairy man thing you have to say Sasquatch appears to this boy and grabs him And take some food trap door to the underground layer that was indirectly illuminated in the ceiling with domed and appear to be covered with almost like seashell type textures. Every shape and color and deeper in the cave he heard this sort of music echoing out of the tunnels so this wild man leaves a boy there,

33:59 And eventually returns but he returns with this beautiful young lady who takes this basically a business card is cardless and boss. With the words that said boy depart henceforth with or remain in be devoured. And so the boy ended up exacting his escape now, this is striking because it sounds almost identical to a lot of the fairy lore that you'll find in the british isles Oftentimes people would either stumble into or be abducted to fairyland and while there, someone that they knew typically a deceased friend relative or neighbor. Would come up to them and tell them you've got to get out of here don't eat the food else will be stuck here their goal is to keep your forever so motivatedly that lines are perfectly got this sort of unearthly music floating through the air and fairies love to make music oftentimes

34:53 unearthly music that didn't seem to have a source would be attributed to the faithful. And also, I think that the description of this underground cave as being illuminated from some non-existent light source and being beautiful and domed has a lot of precedent not only in the alien abduction literature where you often find this illumination from no obvious place in sort of dome circular area But also a lot of descriptions of the space that you emerge into on dmt trips this sort of very elaborate almost like don't say like a mosaic sort of feeling like i'm not your guy exactly.

35:30 So you put all these things together and then you throw a big foot on top of your like what are we looking at here i'm sure that. A lot of people will push back and say well fairies were always small and mother some degree of truth to that fairies were also shape shifters near plenty of stories of, taller entities that fall under that fairy umbrella like trolls and ogres and whatnot. Really interesting, a lot of the British folklore describes brownies in their ilk so brownies, goblins, peck-emderlin – all these different small classes of fairies were described as being little short hairy men with these monkey faces. So again there's this nice bigfoot connection here as well

36:08 And the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper the more you peel away from it to the extent that some people said you could summon fairies by knocking three times on a tree what we see time again big reports but these would not be able say or either. Bigfoot knocking rocks together or big foot knocking a limb on the tree to present these sort of knocks in the forest So just it's a rich vein of inquiry that I don't think a lot of people have really taken the time to look into Yes, same shape for sure and obviously Josh and i have talked about this underground stuff before but what are your thoughts on the subterranean aspect of this stuff Tim? I mean again from field research one of the questions. I ask people when I go out on any paranormal investigation is

36:52 What's buried in the ground here that special are there stories of very treasure is their old minds and a lot of the time. I can't put a number on it i'd say seventy five percent probably or more you get the story of people oh yeah there's a story of very treasured or yet there's a lost silver mine here that. You know there is a legend in the neighborhood with a silver mine that people had done hearing and not hear even sometimes it comes to, the idea that the creatures themselves are living in the ground so this idea that their something special something in the ground that is special or valuable

37:28 And i find it again and again a lot of the places i investigate you know they've been digging into the ground for hundreds of years there are old mines so forth so. I think there's something to it is really something to the idea of again that something is not always gold as buried in the ground but it's got you something special something valuable being in the ground yes and again, that's a common folkloric trip only the monster or the dragon garden very treasure but also fairies and ghosts which have multiple points of. Correlation with these big foot sightings would often be found lurking around these sites of buried treasure. I was astonished to find not only this correlation, which is another... So every now and then Tim comes to me with this thing like, oh yeah Bigfoot in buried treasure there's a connection there. Like what are you talking about? And then I look into it and I'm like Oh yeah Tim you're exactly right so while not explicitly buried treasure the idea of mine shafts and whatnot. And I was surprised to find that that is not only consistent several cases we have in the book but also the most famous North American treasures Oak Island

38:31 Also has basically a big foot that appeared during what sounds like asleep paralysis incident to one of the night watchman and said you know you gotta leave but sitting on his chest with. That's just strange sleep paralysis in buried treasure in this large hairy man thing appearing all the same spot it's just wild, is it isn't didn't that guy say was the only thing that ever scared him he descended into alcoholism eventually killed himself Yes he was originally a treasure hunter himself and he had an associate of his die after hitting the pocket gas while looking for the island treasure. And it was kept on as a night watchman in one night around eleven or twelve o'clock, yeah this fire going and he woke up and couldn't breathe in there these two giant red eyes staring at space in the red eyes were attached to this

39:23 curly haired covered entity that said you don't ever come back it's not just a blink out of sight and after that he did have some serious problems with anxiety and depression alcoholism which ties into another thing you see the lot of flushing blood cryptozoologist like to sort of poop who is this idea that there might be some sort of bigfoot curse that senior interacting with bigfoot manifest end It's something of a trope that you have to sort of broaden your interpretation. What occurs might be in the start of this article and focus little bit better. You know what people say oh well people see sasquatch all the time and don't die well yes but people also sees us gotta time in their lives are forever change do we have people who have,

40:07 tens of thousands of dollars of hunting equipment, never wanting to go back into the forest. I think they would consider that a curse in addition to stuff like alcoholism which is a very common thing people not knowing how to cope with their world being overturned by seeing these things and again you find this in fairy folklore as well the idea that you actually wouldn't even call them fairies you'd call them The Good People or The Wee Folk or something You find a precedent for that as well and certain tribes and for example Alaska who don't necessarily refer to their Bigfoot analogs by name either. They use euphemisms for their big foot as well because they're afraid of invoking their wrath, so you know motivically these things just keep on lining up.

40:46 Yeah great points and i think you're right to ask what's in the ground around here i think that's an awesome. First question when your investigating stuff and there is so much unknown history especially here in the states me we've got probably mass graves we don't know about theirs magic mounds that we dismissed as nothing and of course it's another aspect of, the unknown history is our attitudes towards the native people who are here that's definitely colored this research and you have some native american stories in the book better great that. You can imagine a hundred years ago were probably not taken with the same way that we would read them today so there's all kinds of stuff that

41:30 Is gonna make it hard to solve this problem or solve this puzzle when we just don't even know so many aspects of the history which might play a real role and what the hell's going on. Yeah absolutely josh dug into the native american folklore a little bit more than i did our problem with that i think, when approaching this book was probably multiple manifold rather but part of it was People tend to treat native american culture monolithically you know native americans believe this. I know it will give me a blanket for me more than that it was the tendency for flesh and blood bigfoot researchers too, just use the names do you pick out these native names they had four whatever their wild man was in the big hairy thing that lived in the forest next time when it was over

42:24 Sasquatch or any number of these you know native names i love to do that because look, native americans were talking about these creatures before we ever got here and they had a name for them but they completely edit out anything with the same native american would say yeah but this creatures come from another world where they have magic powers or. Yes there are another type of indian big hairy indian but also have special abilities so they can do this is not So these aspects are just not talk about again it's a selective editing to use anything that makes it seem like an actual creature and take out anything else in. It's the real feeling I think of looking back at any historical culture whether it be american or european folklore and say well, they knew what they were talking about when they were talking about you know natural creatures like a wolf but

43:21 When they saw this wild man and they said it just disappeared but I didn't know what they're looking at. They were dumb back then, they were naive primitive people so i think that's a real failing of looking at the stuff through any traditional culture. Well put Tim! I'm very hesitant to try out the word racism for everything like it feels like it is sometimes but there is a racist component in the way that a lot of cryptozoologists treat these stories of Bigfoot similarly to the way that people treat Ancient cultures in the ancient alien sort of fear that automatically assume that you know these people who have this better understanding of the natural world than we do quite honestly couldn't make a cut between. The real world and supernatural world

44:03 the idea that, oh they must have been misinterpreting it. They've been able to machine these stone blocks to such precision but when they said that this was supernatural no they must have been talking about space men or maybe it was just supernatural so similarly with Native American cultures and I did my best when writing this to really specifically call tribes by their specific names identify their beliefs as accurately as I could There's a similar problem where you say well yeah they knew that this deer wasn't magically facing out of dimensions but they said that bigfoot was but didn't realize how stealthy bigfoot was bigfoot forest ninja.

44:41 where they're telling you exactly what was going on. Yeah, yeah it's so true good points guys and there is an account in the book that i did want to highlight for a couple of reasons one it does touch on the fact that many native american tribes seemed to have found a better context for bigfoot than we even have today and it's in a cave and also comes from the late great brad steiger you know pour one out in his honor brad was the man but 1888 diary shared with brad has an entry where the diarist observed a tribesman in california taking plates of raw meat into a cave, for enormous docile hairy beast the tribesmen called crazy bear he said it arrived on earth when i quote small moon piloted by humans descended from the stars. It's like wow that something i wish we could ask you follow up questions on right

45:38 Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time it's one of those stories you find similar stories throughout many different tribes describing these as being I mean for lack of a better term extraterrestrial pets or what we would probably call extraterrestrial pets. It's no real surprise to anybody who has listened in my previous interviews on THC that I am not especially affectionate towards the extraterrestrial hypothesis so I still think this is probably describing in mind where I'm right now some degree of spirit phenomena but ignore the fact that a small moon piloted by people from the stars sounds like a spacecraft. But you'll find that, you know these different craft described in these different tribes is like these large white birds or these large lights that leave these giant hairy things behind does it mean that Bigfoot is an extraterrestrial scout? I don't know but there are plenty of overlaps with Sasquatch sightings and what we would call the alien abduction experience some that I had really no idea where as prevalent

46:37 as they are until I really got into it. But things like livestock mutilation, something that just blew my mind was the number of times that people have missing time in conjunction with their Bigfoot sightings. There was a famous podcaster, the host of Sasquatch Chronicles when he first had his sighting with his brother they were convinced that the entire thing should have maybe at max taken about 40 minutes and then they go down the mountain and found out three hours had elapsed which is pretty chilling but completely consistent with the alien abduction experience, and before that these visitors to Fairyland who thought they were dancing for three minutes inside a fairy circle. It had actually been three days. You find these stories of Bigfoot missing time are not as uncommon as one would assume. Some people try to explain this away by saying when you're under tense situations time seems to speed up but literally laboratory experiments on time perception show that the exact opposite is true

47:33 Stress actually tends to slow down one's perception of time anybody been in a car accident can attest to that fact. Yes well man the alien pet hypothesis might be my new favorite and you know if we were engineered as a slave species at some people say well these aliens might have kept them around so, run the ships or the program could also still be going on or you know maybe when this may be when space big foot go farrell they lose all their hair and become human being. Right lot of possibilities and so here's a question for each of you but, this book is largely about taking the speak put research conversation forward in bucking the same old big foot one oh one stuff

48:20 What would you guys consider to be the most cutting edge thoughts and ideas on the bigfoot phenomenon. Oh boy josh outside of the alien pet hypothesis of course yeah i mean there's so much going on with this from from the idea of interdimensional stuff too people like ron morehead who i'd like a great deal and he's done some fantastic work but His attempts to use quantum physics to explain how big could still be a natural creature and do all these weird things which again. Run some incredible work but i just think quantum physics is a little bit deeper i think than most people grasp and with most people's understanding of quantum physics you might as well say it's magic

49:17 Josh had a great quote that he thought i said which i absolutely did not someone said it. That you think you understand quantum physics you don't understand what a physics is something along those lines but we remain very agnostic on these different areas because at the end of the day, we don't know the most exciting stuff for me is probably like with patrick carper's doing the idea of these demons as you would call it For me it's a little bit more young and i guess the wild man archetype the idea that. Is just something other that always been next to us and that probably where i'm going in the future of this stuff the idea that no one can type is very exciting to me but

50:03 Who knows maybe someday we can get some kind of proof that this thing is stepping out of another dimension or aliens dropping them off and so forth but. That's why i again josh and i remain pretty agnostic no point in this book war invite to are you gonna hear us say well bigfoot comes from another dimension our big foot as an alien or bigfoot is a ghost it just, we're not saying that were just pointing out how these things are like how bigfoot does act like a ghost or act like a witch etc for me whenever you get people who are unafraid of pushing against materialist explanations, that's the route that I want to go down. Because again we mentioned Ron Morehead who has done some great work but in trying to invoke quantum physics he is still playing the materialists game which i think as somebody who listens to THC it doesn't cut anymore trying to chase that materialists rabbit so for me if you look at people

50:58 longitudinal long-term experiencers. Those are the people that I find most interesting for volume two, Tim and I both took an individual in their particular experiences as a case study and sort of like laid out to people who have had basically like the quintessential weird Bigfoot experiences that tie on all sorts of things like UFOs and portals in the dead telepathy and all these things. And I think that's really where for me this research should be going. That's the next frontier having said that there is a growing acceptance of using voice box or spirit box or ghostbox devices in Bigfoot research and they're getting some interesting results of that sort of being away to communicate with something that sometimes says it's big foot, is it? I don't know. I mean as Tim pointed out one time you know that could be your subconscious saying that it's big but you could be you could be the one manifesting that yourself

51:55 So yeah but i think that thinking about these things obliquely and drawing on tools from other disciplines like ghost hunting i think is probably going to yield more. Successful results that a lot of people who are tied up in the flesh and blood hypothesis would like to admit. I like both those answers yeah maybe it is just being unbiased and open all possibilities and taking an honest look at the comparison too, why are paranormal themes and just not trying to force anything to fit but being honest about things that do Yeah i mean you know i used to say maybe the role of body into a lab one day and my job will become easier but, i've adjusted that way of thinking because even if they roll about in a lab one day we still have a lot to explain why did these weird lights pop up around this thing that you now wrote about it to allow me. I don't have a lot of confidence that's ever going to happen because as i get into invite him too

52:54 There's been many, many people who have claimed to capture or killed one of these creatures over the years and without exception 100% of the time. The bodies are gone they're missing their unavailable to us Whether it's they're taken back by the creatures supposedly, you know and buried or whatever Bigfoot is supposed to do with their dead or a mysterious black van pulls up and takes the body away. Or you know spaceship comes in levitates the body into a UFO or whatever whatever the case however they disappear doesn't matter the bodies are gone 100% of them are going so i don't have any real confidence that we're ever gonna have a body at least not for any significant amount of time

53:35 I agree with you i do get the sense that there is something bleeding in from another dimension of some sorts and sometimes window can close and something can get stuck here but i feel like there's an agency have some kind maybe a paranormal one that, very closely monitors when stuff does get stuck here or maybe it dissipates on its own but we do have these visitations from mib kind of people that suggest to me that they're very much like okay what did you see and where is it like what are your conclusions here are you going to be talking about this a lot? You know, that kind of stuff. It seems very heavily managed the bigfoot world has a man in black analogue in the form of these two fellas that claim to be from

54:21 Either the Department of the Interior or another government organization that tend to show up. It's the same two guys that show up all over the country and have been for years, one is a very large fellow they describe as six foot nine or taller big biker looking guy in a flannel shirt and another guy in a suit they tend to show up and sort of act as the Bigfoot world men in black I get into this in volume 2 But there's a problem with evidence in general, and that our best evidence for Bigfoot. And it's very good if you look at the footprints especially with the work like Jeff Meldrum has done These are really, really good casts of footprints. Some of them not all but some of them are very, very good and they show dermal ridges and mid tarsal breaks in all this anatomy that Jeff Meldrum as someone who specializes in primate locomotion or primate foot anatomy and so forth he can look at these casts and say yes something alive left this footprint and here's why heres all the great details that unless you're an expert on his level you'd never be able to fake but

55:25 In terms of and i always frame this in terms of saints relics because it's just easier to understand. So if you have a fingernail or piece of hair from the same that's a primary relic that came from the same spotty, if you have you know a piece of the saints prayer cloth or something the saint touched that secondary relic of the same so the best we have for bigfoot the best evidence of these cast and they're all secondary relics Any kind of primary relic we have from bigfoot weather hair samples blood samples all the dna evidence always always always contested never is there one case for somebody has a hair that you can get experts to line up and say yes this is a hair from a big foot you will get experts to line up on both sides, yes this is something strange oh no this is something perfectly explainable same with the dna evidence.

56:15 The DNA tests have been all over the place. The one that Melva Ketchum did was absolutely flawed if you look at other DNA experts, The test the brian sikes did in the uk was problematic as well if you ask the people who sent samples and so forth. And a lot of people don't believe his results again this is just this mess up people lining up on both sides expert and layman saying you know this physical evidence is real no it's not et cetera et cetera so there's primary relics There's really nothing that we can agree on there is out there that people say yeah this is a big foot hair but no you can't get experts to agree with that. Or at least agree that it actually came from bigfoot the best you might get is like and we don't know what this is whatever this is we don't know what it is, but that's a problem with bigfoot evidence in our best evidences secondary roles i like the relics analogy because and i sometimes think that it is similar to the placebo effect where

57:16 We have the ability subconsciously probably to do all kinds of stuff but we need to put it on something else so you know you take a pill and then your like oh that pill healed me when really was just a sugar pill obviously we are not the placebo effect is but similarly, there could be artifacts words like this is the spear that pierced christ side and someone with a lot of religious conviction can touch that And then all the sudden have a spontaneous experience and ecstatic experience or have healing happen or something like that. Sometimes these artifacts do turn out to be fraudulent, but yet they still have insane effects I find that interesting i think it makes it... I think that's a clue that consciousness of individual is key component here

58:04 Absolutely you know it's funny on at least one of our other interviews some commenters came in like you need an archetype this is silly and honestly. It's not that we're saying the stuff is made up but it can also be no generated internally, and also be real enough similarly i got to push back a little my talks for discussing you know all these bits of physical evidence and then saying, well Bigfoot might not be a flesh-and-blood creature. They're like how does it leave hair? And how does it leave blood and scat and footprints? I said if you look at the parapsychological literature we can all agree that ghosts are not tangible or physical yet if ghosts do exist they apparently can interact with the physical world just fine. They can leave behind handprints and writing on walls and slamming doors similarly if you look at Siphonoma thats entirely internally generated

58:57 but can also have an impact on the physical world as well. I would encourage people who are interested in these topics to stop thinking about things as this false dichotomy of real or not-real, physical and nonphysical. And you're very astute point about comparing the revelations that people have when encountering relics of any sort of numinous origin Comparing that to the placebo effect I think is very astute in terms of the fact that something about us plays a very strong role in these encounters and if that so happens to mean inside of us we each have a wild man waiting to get out, can you know. We project that into the woods and thats what we end up seeing maybe thats it all i know is that 70 years at least in this country in terms of popular culture

59:50 70 plus years of trying to prove this thing as a large harry hominid really hasn't gotten much of anywhere yes well said and. As we're kinda getting into the end of the road here i figured maybe we could close this out by all giving up favorite story, some sort i would probably pull this one from your short section on healing and spirituality i love this story says uh Yakima Indian fire guard told investigator W.J Vogel that, quote a large man with red eyes came to live with the tribe whenever any of the indian people became sick he would heal them when the large hominid noticed his own health failing He asked the tribe to take him to a specific location where he died and a large flying object came down from the skies

1:00:39 put his body on board and flew off into the sky i mean wow again what the hell that's a pretty fun one but you guys have personal favorites we haven't touched on. I kinda wanna talk about eight canyon but ten that's kind of your thing if you want to use it if you don't wanna use that as an example ll use eighteen units go ahead you take a pen so for anyone who isn't aware eight canyon is a very famous, encounter with bigfoot nineteen twenty four near mount saint helens The short version that you get and it occurs in a lot of big foot literature especially flesh and blood literature is that back and several other miners were trapped in this cabin. In the mountains and they were basically assaulted under siege by these large hairy creatures that were thrown boulders at the cabin

1:01:31 If you sort of unpack Beck's account, it seems like maybe it was just throwing rocks at the cabin. But the other thing that's interesting is that it's another classic example of this weird washing that we see time and again. So people tend to focus on that Bigfoot assault but what they don't talk about as a fact that the miners were led to their claim by a white arrow in the sky? They don't talk about the fact that Among the sort of spirit guides that they encountered one was a Native American man. The other one was a female entity that is not described but is named Vander white so you have the lady in white connection there as well, which they actually ended up naming the mining claim after the vendor white mining claim but even curiouser people don't talk about that just before their

1:02:23 attack from the big foot that several of the miners actually saw a pair of footprints, pair of large Bigfoot footprints on a sandbar. That was what was it? 100 feet from the nearest shore I think they said it was at least oh I think it was in the middle an acre wide sand bar so huge and the quote was that you know almost look as if something dropped something down and then picked it back up And then people don't tend to address the fact that there were reports that occurred during the canyon citing as well literally a pencil appeared in front of his hand. No some people have like to sort of criticize for back because even though he is the primary witness,

1:03:03 Of the encounter he had a long standing history of being involved and being interested in. The paranormal but at the same time if you believe witnesses you gotta be witnesses and fred back never once assumed that these were giant monkey men he always assume that these were somehow some type of entity that had one foot in our world and one foot in other world as well, It's amazing to me that this Ape Canyon story gets so sanitized and that there is all this real, absolute high strangeness that surrounds the encounter that people just don't tend to talk about because it doesn't fit their pre-existing hypothesis that we're dealing with a large relic of Harry Hominid. So I have a real soft spot let's say that I nurture for The Ape Canyon case.

1:03:48 Yeah i'm really glad that was the one you chose because that is one of the rare. Stories you could bring up where actually have some contacts because when i was out there in washington no a canyon butts up against what they call ape cave which is a twelve thousand foot long lava tube but it gets the largest known lava tube, in the united states and i have walked it nice and that is the longest underground walk i've ever had actually think its the only underground walk of ever taken but, the whole time you can see these little ridges. And it's like i can almost see my mind size some big foot staring at me there was a pretty cool experience but i didn't know that added context about this story either really knew about them throwing rocks against the cabinet stuff like that so

1:04:34 Yeah, that is definitely interesting and it is a place where it does seem like a perfect setting for some kind of paranormal experience. Of course now there's so many people going up and down the cave that you know It's not quiet enough to really see anything or have an experience like that but it could be a window area I definitely liked that story but Tim what you got? Well, it's still hard to pick one story. The opening story is a favorite obviously the one we talked about the county pennsylvania storey what we talked about in the beginning and. In general my favorite sections to write was the christmas time of wild man section where i talk about all of the correlations between the wildman phenomenon these various christmas while men we have from crampus too, bells nickel and so forth but

1:05:24 If i'm just gonna talk about one story there was one that was pretty incredible it was a guy named rick who he appeared on a podcast called the cryptic brothers investigation, is encounter to place in woodville texas and nineteen seventy eight driving. About two thirty in the morning becomes up over hill any hit something and they said this funnest truck around whatever will be so big actually like spon is pick up truck around. He gets out of the truck anything somebody in halloween costume What have i done and this. Thing that he thinks of the person at first is just saying on the roadside kind of morning i think you said it had part of his grill stuck in its leg hands up walking out to it and figuring out that it's a big creature female,

1:06:13 And he ends up using his belt to put a tourniquet on its leg and emotions that it's gonna hurt take this piece of the truck grill out of its lagoon. Apparently does in there she says there is a male bigfoot comes behind him that thinks he hurting her and she warns them all off somehow in big foot language tells me okay, And while he's doing this always supposedly helping the speaker creature is a catholic crucifix around his neck as she grabs this crucifix and says good luck. And somehow gets the impression that she wants it,

1:06:49 So he said, he takes it off and has that in a chain and like another change. He puts these two chains together to make it big enough to put over the Bigfoot's head and drapes this crucifix overhead as she holds it points to the sky and says, good luck. Good luck. And he says no, no, Jesus Christ. And you said I'm I'm scared now i give her anything she wants and she was thrilled to have that but you identify it who lock up who locked up i don't know what that means just wonderful incredible story of this guy who has the calendar with his creature and end up giving it. This crucifix from around his neck in great still on your neck you know pretty outrageous but really really need story yeah there is a great one too i love it,

1:07:32 Well guys is that a fun time the book is excellent of course i've come to expect nothing less from josh and this is just volume one what you tell the people about picking it up in what they should know about volume two. Buying tool hopefully be here before the end of twenty twenty that's the goal looks like we're gonna make that right now but, you know so many things happened with volume one that kind of push the release date on us that i'm cautious About the thing it'll definitely be here but let's say i'm cautiously optimistic that we will make that christmas time release date for volume two so. Volume one week old folklore by into a call evidence we'd like to say that there's plenty of folklore buying too and play the evidence in body one is just sort of signifiers weekend, there's more kind of direct evidence invite you to add more focal on buying wine but there's plenty both any so you can find by one on amazon

1:08:30 Either look up where the footprints and or joshua cutchin or timothy runner it should get to you and i'm sure at this point you can also order in your local bookstore if you prefer that very cool awesome. And if the people want to follow up with you guys tell him where to find you in this fast internet thing You can find me at joshua cutchen dot com hopefully now that this book is getting out of the way a little bit i'll be making more frequent appearances over on where did the road go. I've done some shows with him on that podcast as well in the past and hope to incorporate that more into life has been forward

1:09:09 You find me at strange lawyers dot com that's my podcast but all that contact information goes directly to me. So if you wanna get in touch with me i'm there if you want hear my podcasts thats their as well strange lawyers dot com boom awesome well, thank you guys both for your time again really enjoyed the book and it's a beautiful thing to get to decide what u find important and what you wanna do in this life so kudos to both of you and keep doing what you do take care out there Thanks so much, Greg. You got it! The power of Christ compels you people Three is the magic number Joshua Kutchin Timothy Renner What better guests for a Squatch cast? Viruses come and go but cryptids are always their people But I see any new work from Joshua Kutchin and i'm jumping in on it I don't care if western society's walking itself off a cliff

1:10:07 I kid, but I absolutely think cryptids are real and that they are a clue to how reality is structured. If your model for reality cannot handle mothmen and dog men and fairies and Bigfoot well get another model because people are interacting with something Is it some rogue coder fucking with the simulation by adding strange creatures? Are we in some planetary zoo where we occasionally see the zookeepers venture into the cage? Could our weird thoughts and dreams become physical manifestations, even if they're brief. These are big questions and they are about much more than a monkey man in the woods as Josh might say

1:10:54 So I do think this kind of research is profound and also timeless because these mysteries will long outlive Bill Gates or Donald Trump or Jeffrey Epstein for that matter. But i loved it, I needed it and I only want more! I hope you feel the same and if you only heard the first free hour of the show I hope you're compelled to sign up for The Higher Side Chats Plus You're only hearing half the show every week If you're listening to the free show It is how I pay the bills but more importantly it's more conspira-info-paratainment for your very hungry brain which has to be getting tired of the beat of the same five drums all throughout this chaotic year.

1:11:40 In today's Plush Show, we talked about thoughts the imaginal and realness feeding unseen forces sacrifice and spiritual bargains gifting offering an intention Bigfoot in the grimoires I absolutely think it's possible that cryptids are just ritual manifestations that got out of the circle or things that jumped through a summoning that wasn't properly closed I'm all into that. We talked about Bigfoot and the woman in white, bigfoot logic and intelligence telepathic bigfoot messages and the UFO-Bigfoot overlap lots of fun stuff! And of course stories which are my favorite part of these kinds of episodes and the book obviously has way more than we could ever talk about

1:12:32 But subscribe to the paid second hour because you like it and you want to double your experience, double your fun if for no other reason. But Where The Footprints End is such a great title for this book and I was very happy to have them on the next show is also with two guests but for the people who don't like racial history and that kind of stuff they're not going to like that episode but we're gonna get crazy after I really liked Bruce Fenton. I really liked today, and I just want to get back to being all over the map And I think once we get through a couple I have recorded We got just the guests on the schedule to do that and I guess I'm getting out of here I hope you're all staying sane and being your best selves

1:13:26 I declare this meeting of the Midnight Society closed. I've done my part Your move cryptid hunters, MIB-like agents and secret keepers of the cult of Squatch! Your fucking move. Woke up this morning with light in my eye And then realized it was dark outside It was like coming down from the sky

1:14:04 You know who must be those strangers that come every night Whose saucers shaped the light, put people uptight Leave blue-green footprints that glow in the dark I hope they get home all right Hey Mr. Spaceman

1:14:46 Won't you please take me along? I won't do anything wrong Hey, Mr. Spaceman! Won't you please take me along to the high side? Woke up this morning was feeling quite weird I had flies in my beard My toothpaste was smeared I opened my window They'd written my name Said, so long We'll see you up again Hey Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along? I won't do anything wrong Hey

1:15:55 Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along the higher side? Won't you please take me along the high side?