Joshua Cutchin & Ryan Grulich | The Lady Of The Lake, Disclosure Doubts, & Ego Death At The Threshold

00:00 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan. There's clearly maybe something there beyond the realm of man And until we've thoroughly tested every last closed-chested view I find the more we think, we know The less we really do Where would we be without THC? Because we know they're lying to us Just don't know, to what degree Where would we be without THC? The higher side chats show Greg Carlson

00:58 Like a cheeseburger in paradise, from the Sunshine State I'm Greg Carlwood. And while we seem to be deep in PSYOP season and the political changing of the guard has all sorts of strange shenanigans going on there is something more timeless and no better understood that seems to invade the lives of everyday people regardless of their age location or feelings about it A thing that sometimes presents itself as strange creatures with magical powers or frail beings coming from foreign machines and it sometimes latches onto the psyche of those who have cracked open the door and is often hard to shake off. And the strangest aspect of these things we lump under the paranormal umbrella is the large overlap they seem to have with individuals in states of trauma, tragedy, hopelessness, even death

01:45 Sometimes these strange beings deliver messages from the dead or are even seen as companions for the dearly departed. And then we have ghost stories and legends that seem to spring up from nearly every city and town across this island earth, where tragic and sudden violent deaths seem to disrupt whatever the life-death transition normally is, and sometimes it seems like a person's energy is stuck or imprinted in the landscape It's hard to know what causes what in these circumstances or know why some get this haunting treatment and others transition more smoothly. But those seemingly unable to transition don't usually have a story that starts with dying peacefully in one sleep

02:24 Well, we know damn well that one of the living legends of paranormal research is the prolific and powerful Joshua Cutchin. He's been here five times before talking about his books A Trojan Feast The Food & Drink Offerings Of Aliens, Fairies And Sasquatch The Brimstone Deceit, an in-depth examination of supernatural scents otherworldly odors and monstrous miasmas. Where the Footprints End High Strangeness And The Bigfoot Phenomenon Volumes 1 & 2 As well as Ecology Of Souls A New Mythology Of Death And The Paranormal Volumes 1 & 2 And today he is joined by filmmaker Ryan Gruelich of Creepy Kingdom to talk about a recently released true crime paranormal documentary they collaborated on titled Lady of the Lake, about a murder victim some odd things about her death and the ghostly woman seen around the lake years after.

03:15 I've watched it, got questions and am psyched to get into it with them. The Murder Mystery Movie Makers, Late Crescent Loss Investigators and Teller's of Forgotten Tales Josh & Ryan, Ryan & Josh happy to have you here how the hell are ya? It's great to be here the best interest in the business and you're probably tired of hearing that by now but it's true all part of a nine to five thanks for having us. Of course so there is quite a bit i hope we can talk about but of course we start with why we do the dance and that is this film lady at the lake understand it all started with an email from ryan as just a fan of josh's work, really who isn't

03:53 But then it turned into this documentary project and i'm curious with all the strange unsolved murders in paranormal stories out there. Why is this story of a murder victim from nineteen thirty seven tossed and late crescent in washington state, Great question. So as I sit here today in sunny Orlando, Florida, I am remembering the not too distant past where I was a resident of the Pacific Northwest. This story sits colloquially in just sort of the whole area as one of those anomalous cases. The condition of the body is really what was almost fetishized in discussion and so I was aware of this story and just kind of started to dig deeper

04:42 There was a compulsion to follow it largely because of covid and we were trying to make a feature film narrative or film and we couldn't get a crew that big together and so we started to pick up this one emerged and literally took four years out of my life to get done. What we had a great time doing it I want to compound that with the fact that i'm a disney nerd and on december twenty first nineteen thirty seven this victim was murdered however also on december twenty first nineteen thirty seven in a great synchronistic adventure, what does he himself released snow white and seven doors of the car they circle in san francisco. And so when i saw those two things collided it was just more rocket fuel my capco. Add was the winter solstice understand you understand correctly

05:26 Man so josh how did you get involved in this cuz when i heard about this when you told me this was happening i was like oh great i'm gonna watch a documentary about josh investigating this mystery and that is not what I got. How are you involved no it's the face for radio thing again right now i started up a correspondence with ryan sometime probably around pandemic round that sort of time You know i always try to be really diligent about answering emails and things like that so I responded and then it turned into phone correspondence and then evolved into what became a friendship so right now would catch up with you was weekly for awhile.

06:06 And then, thankfully I well. I was going through a little bit in 2020 as we all were. I'm not shy about it. I was heading towards my August check into rehab for alcoholism coming up on five years now we're all good heck yeah golf clap But, you know, alcoholics are not necessarily the best people about getting back to correspondence. Between the collapse of my worldview and the collapse of my world I sort of ended up ghosting Uriah a couple times, I'm afraid to say. No pun intended! Yeah right? But he was very tenacious and we reconnected a couple months later and we continued to bounce ideas off each other And it has emerged as this wonderful collaborative friendship

06:50 Excited to see what has come of that not only with lady the lake but with some of the things we have planned in the future and just what i think is going to be a trend hopefully for paranormal media as we move forward. which is the continuous blending and blurring of distinctions between separate domains. And I think that's really what we need a lot more of, is looking at similarities between these parts of the phenomenon that we've often assumed have been discrete and separate and really showing how they all seem to have some sort of underlying connective tissue. Yeah man yes! That's why I've always gravitated to you because I do like that comparative stuff. I like the blurring of the lines

07:29 I'm kind of over doing interviews with rumors to talk about the chain custody of the meta materials right patterson here there it's like okay let's talk about something like we're. And when you open the door to this kind of stuff as a filmmaker i am looking at and the reason that i was so persistent in touching us with josh i don't know if i really said this to you but is that his work sets in that space where the way sets were killed sets where, These concepts your head has to make it through the door at the end of this interview but i think that's in that space right where we're not naming it or just exploring and so as i was going through this with our subject amanda paulson. No one signed me and really kind of digging deep into this you are heading into territory weather were not easy definitions this is a forty n affair and in terms of like modern forty on america

08:24 Josh is an easy person to go to and say, Hey, I have a nerdy question. As a professional Until i moved to florida was the cd of a company i rarely spoke about this kind of stuff ever and so i was fluent with a lot of different researchers it wasn't obvious choice for me to go to him in engagement and so over time he's being. A little bit humble but overtime has been a real cornerstone in my thinking about how to approach some of the stuff, no look at this domain of the larger phenomenon metaphone not and i think that for lady of the lake in particular as we get into it You can see that we're talking about things like brownies live out on the olympic peninsula and their relationship to potential satanic murders, and they are being seen at the lady of the lake. And it got strange real fast so he was an ally there for sure

09:13 Love it love it so yeah let's give people the structure of the bullet points of what this story is cuz there is a specific story like i mentioned this woman died in nineteen thirty seven on the winter solstice on release of, snow white and seven dwarves not exactly relevant or maybe its all connected who knows but tell us the basic story of hailey so that people have a sense of what we're talking about. Yes so how are you worth was born in kentucky and migrated all the way across this great big country back in that day was not an insignificant feet to pretty much the edge of the world port angeles is the north western most point. Are there united states you can stand in the town look across and canada's visible,

09:59 And so she was out kind of in the middle of nowhere and ended up in a position where she just took this really long journey. And it ended there for her, but the reason we know about is because in july of nineteen forty two fishermen roll up onto what they thought was you know some sort of detritus. In actuality it was a hand sticking out the water vertically which in and of itself as a tremendous anomaly and also harkens back to your theory and legend of the lady of the lake with a hand is actually sticking out on the water that's actually how she was discovered And there were pieces of the flash around her finger tip that were exposed so her body was found this way but we didn't know who this person was when we pulled out of the water her body had some kind of fight and this is a chemical reaction that is also known as adipose ear corks

10:49 What happens is under certain conditions, the body basically turns into a soap-like substance. In a lot of places like down south in the US and France and some other humid places in the southern world you'll see that graves are above the ground and that's the reason for that as to water table. And so while in some places this isn't anomalous in Seattle area in the northwest it was exceptionally anomalous So when they discovered this body in Lake Crescent which is a lake that is famous for literally never giving up its dead And we can talk about the lake in more detail later. When they found this body, it was an instant mystery and the mystery was very well publicized. They ended up finding out who the victim was through some circumstance but what we know about her because of the conditions of her body that's where this all started was in The Strange Anomaly of Bat and I think amplified by the colloquial sort of the lake never gives up its dead It's a bottomless lake. And so from a mythology standpoint she kind of springs out into the public

11:47 I read it is the second deepest lake in washington state i'm sure there are parts of that where it goes deeper than even is measured, i read that. Eighty three people i think have been reported missing around the lake thought to have died in the lake most likely but hailey is one of three that has ever been recovered or known to be recovered so if they're on recover them and you don't really know what they died in the lake or not but We assume a lot of people have been very few are recovered and yeah there's obviously a striking visual of deep deep lake, body that's been under water for three years and then i hand is sticking out above the surface of the water and that is what people see and then the body has turned to a soap like substance.

12:39 These qualities how much of this do you think is related cuz lady like we're talking about basically a ghost story there's stories in the area where people see a woman and white crying walking around, and so there is a mythology that builds up i mentioned the intro all across the country those little towns words like go to these railroad tracks. Say this name and then you'll see the thing this comes up all the time so this is one of those kind of legends there's a ghostly figure people see in the area, the assumption is it's peg to. Haley who went missing these qualities arm sticking out the soap if occasion of the body how related do you think some of these physical things are too the non physical weirdness of the story itself

13:29 Well, this is something that I've taken a greater and deeper interest in lately is the fact that we should be looking more closely at the story part of ghost story than we do with the ghost part. As Ryan sort of alluded to there are a lot of archetypal fingerprints all over this whole narrative not only do you have the sort of woman in white thrusting her hand above the waves and an echo of the Arthurian lady of the lake but Some of the things that the story touches on are a little bit less publicized. The fact that the lake in question is supposedly bottomless and that it has a reputation for never giving up its dead, these are things we see in a lot of lakes that are associated with certain mythological characters and creatures throughout the world

14:15 specifically the bottomlessness nature and the tendency to not yield its dead speaks directly to something that was mentioned as some of the criteria for Lake Monsters in one of my favorite Lake Monster books, Michel Merger's Lake Monster Traditions. It is like Passport to Magonia for Lake Monsters it is an excellent book but just the fact that you have these sort of archetypal themes popping up time and time again I think doesn't really suggest a chicken or egg scenario or one or the other scenario but really a both and sort of scenario and that where the story of how is death in the lady of the lake. Believe there really is such rate of the community we can talk about that little bit too,

14:56 Where those things meet is really what's at question here and what I think is, what really sets aside this documentary from a lot of other paranormal media out there. It truly becomes something that is less than just you know it's a paranormal mystery with true crime elements like yeah that's in there but it really does end up being a Fortean story because you do end up with these intersections larger than life themes that are necessarily based on just the facts yes the facts play into it but there's also the bigger story. That we ourselves weave and have woven over our lifetimes over decades centuries in millennia well i like to say we should emphasize this story park is that is what i came away with and you know think about preparing talk about this like how can i make this a little different i mean that is kinda, what i thought about the lady of the lake is an archetype

15:48 And so you start to think man so what causes the ghost phenomenon it doesn't seem like it's the physical body cuz that was found in nineteen forty at the imprint and the area of the stories have some kind of ghost are. Still there would be interesting to know if those stories go away when more people see the documentary because this story is now told bike, That would be maybe a mechanism cuz we've talked many times about trauma being associated with forty and paranormal stuff well baby trauma is exactly the right word maybe it's like. Unresolved drama would be maybe more specific term that once something is resolved to maybe the energy is released what do you think about something like that

16:36 Or the question that you know really comes to mind for me is that if Hallie is deposited and later recovered from an area, that's less strange or from. a body of water that has less folklore attached to it in general, does the story take on the life of its own like it has in Port Angeles? I think that's part of the question too. It's almost like a catalyst for the mythopoetic side to emerge into life and to that extent, I think trauma itself can serve that similar role and That's what I think that brian as director did an excellent job of showing up i want to speak to that here in a moment but the fact that how he was a person and had dreams and aspirations and it so easy to sort of slip into this trap of.

17:24 using victims as plot points or, you know sort of deifying the killers when you're dealing with true crime. And I think Ryan's handling of the subject matter really sidestepped both those issues in a good way and to the contrary was actually a remedy for a lot of what we see if Ryan you want to speak to the role that trauma plays in this particular narrative? Sure everything you guys are saying is in line with what I found and it's more of a yes and situation because What I found was that the community was struggling with a trauma. This is a place where at this point in time, the population was really small they were isolated they weren't and still are not a big city it did not have big city infrastructure this murder really shook the town and because of the implications of the trial once it started to happen like all the dynamics that were involved with it It was very close to home And so

18:17 Prior to the internet prior to the collapse of peer-to-peer communication in real space. We would actually engage in these sort of dialogue meaningfully a small communities and i think one of the ways that we end up doing that is through story And so at the end of the cycle here where we are story is now what how he has become. She is a real person she was alive she was no longer with us and I think you have to treat that with the respect that it deserves, I don't see it as a feat to humanize a person in these stories like they get ashamed but they're not generally I assume it should be par for the course like not to go too far on your back should be where it's at

18:58 So now she is a story to most people. And I think that the story that we're telling about Hallie, and about a lot of these ladies of the lake or these different haunted locations is very similar to like what you would get out of a thrill ride when you go to a theme park, you get on, you hop in, you say do a trick ghost and the phenomenon responds. And then you go home. And in the haunted words of Haunted Mansion, A ghost may follow you home and you don't even know it you're just on this place where your completely unaware of what you escalated into and i think that my intention with this was to yes humanize howling worth but also

19:37 Hopefully provide her with a vehicle to transcend victim and by taking the story and shaping it the way we did i hope that the sightings don't stop i hope that this every gore gets bigger and bigger. And how is remembered as the lady of the lake and has a power that was taken away from life restored to her in depth Well that's an interesting take ambitious hopes i know that you have talked to mark stavish in some bonus footage and i'm assuming thats kinda where the agar gore comment comes from but what do you think about this relationship between an agar gore and archetype just decide yet

20:20 A seemingly random situation a murder it kind of falls into being archetypal you know the killer didn't try to fulfill some archetype so there's like a weird this there but like sometimes a murder does fall into. That role my what is the difference between agar gore and an archetype then, what is that people are saying are they seen in agar gore are they seeing an architect is there even much of a difference I have to jump in john tenney says it very well the aliens land on the white house mall and they get out and the secret service is standing there with their guns pointed and the alien say what do you guys know about these ghosts. Question i think is more so what are we dealing with within ourselves when we experience these phenomena,

21:12 And so in order to classify this and try to give it a quantified reality of like being an archetype for being in every part and what's the difference. I think you can get into semantics pretty quick like your suggestion but the reality is that when you look at the work on establishing guys like that better talking about this stuff i think it's really great because it helps us to shape our minds around the fact that reality has a co-creative nature. And for me the agro core itself is a clinical definition of feeding the archetype right? It becomes this group thought form where we're feeding an archetype. And that's really sort of what is happening in my opinion with a lot of these stories. Yeah, it's a bit like that definition of pornography right you know when you see it don't I ever think there was a quote that young has that is about how archetypes are like deep long ago cut riverbeds and they may sit dry for awhile but when certain conditions are met That's the course which the water chooses

22:15 you know, to that extent I think that there are naturally forming riverbeds and there's some man-made riverbeds too. And I think that with enough time and erosion we can sort of form our own riverbeds although i would suggest that they take quite a bit more time than these ones that were cut long ago so I think that might be sort of an open handed way to address that distinction I think that there are certain things, certain events, certain personalities that choose the path of least resistance from a underlying source code of the universe kind of perspective and fall into these pathways in these well-worn waterways.

22:57 And I think that when you see that happening, that is really sort of the activation of an archetype. And then when you see something that seems to be the product of collective belief given enough time, that would fall a little bit more into the Edgar Gore category. Although the question is are Edgar Gores vehicles for forces beyond ourselves? Are they purely the force of human will and the force of human belief? I'll have to remain ambivalent on that because That's a question what the sort of durable long lasting implications that you have to sit with. It's the same kind of question that is, are the spirits real or are they all in your head? You know it's the same kinda question. Yeah I guess my thought is like if there was a life cycle to these things

23:40 and egregor seems like a young archetype or an archetypes seems like and older agar gore but i like the whole thing about man made riverbed cuz i tend to use the term gravity there's like a gravity that kind of pulls things in, do an archetype if it's close enough like maybe it comes eighty percent away and then something else pulls all the way into being a fulfillment of the archetype And yeah it probably takes more time to try to game that or try to create an artificial riverbed use the same analogy but man that's kind of what i think the little green men sci-fi alien thing has been i never heard it put in those terms really but,

24:22 We always talk about well the presentation is what you expect to see things like that obviously are talked about all the time but it seems like maybe the military. Set out on an operation to be like i wonder if we can use hollywood and use our own whistleblowers to infiltrate the conference scene, describe things in a certain way and then just as experiment see what happens and see if people start seeing this it seems like That is a great way to contextualize what i think a lot of that eighties nineties ufo stuff was the attempt to create. Agra gore archetype riverbed,

25:04 I think that's extremely prescient. I mean, I was asked recently at a conference about you know do you think the flying saucer is an archetype and i'm like well it's on its way to becoming an archetype? I don't know if something with sort of that relatively short attention and focus as we know the modern UFO-to-be can really carve that riverbed but transportation to the other world, the mandala like these things are archetypes so it's almost as if... If we're going to continue using this riverbed analogy you know, a tributary is starting to wear away in the direction of the flying saucer and it will be sort of an offshoot. That main waterway And this is exactly what you're talking about sort of the manipulation of the narrative or the mediation as my friend David Metcalf would say It's something that I've been giving a lot more attention too lately not to pivot us off of Lady of the Lake because I want to bring us back around but

25:51 I'm working on a book that should be coming out this year called Fourth Wall Phantoms. Among the many things that it deals with, in addition to fictions that become true are the possibility that we are the last people to really realize this and you can sort of reinforce beliefs long enough that they end up reflecting what your beliefs are. There's a passage that I can't recall which book it was from – I believe it was Transformation but I might be mistaken One of Whitley Strieber's books, he mentions a memo from Wright-Patterson that says that basically the alien invasion can be held at bay through orchestrated belief in the idea that simply by denying them the power to enter our reality we can keep them from our reality. Which is an idea I really do sympathize with quite a bit and might speak to our current point in the timeline? Who knows! But yeah, it's something I really resonate with. It also speaks to The Lady Of The Lake just to be clear

26:46 There is the suggestion or implication in the film that we're dealing with non-human intelligence. If you watch it, we're using the method to try and engage what we perceived to be a non human intelligence and I don't ghost hunt i've never seen a ghost hunting tv show to this day i am very not fluent with the entire space post the spiritualism and who do you need trying to debunk it and so i'm looking at that exchange with non human intelligence In a very different way and what i see happening is exactly that question are we able to limit the transmission of whatever were encountering by simply denying its existence. Do you have to buy the ticket to take the ride how does this work and i think that what i keep coming back to you is how do people feel

27:41 About what they're experiencing and how do people feel about the phenomenon in general has become ultimately more interesting to me than the mechanics of how it works because what we tried to deal with this film, see how did people feel when they talk to us about how late in her life. How did amanda feel about this whole entire process and where are the similarities between her and how early and how do they align and collide as she goes on hunts for And so for me that emotional component of story and this story and all of our stories is becoming like i say more fascinating than how the sausage gets made what point to me is there's definitely sausage right there's definitely something that we're dealing with. Definitely three of them

28:28 Yeah yeah right here where's amanda i can't speak for her but i watched someone sort of engaged with that as a documentarian and i really did come away feeling like the feelings are the things. That probably matter the most ride on what, On the subject of the feelings like this is something i copy down from josh's last book ecology of souls and i was gonna try to she wanted in somewhere and it fits right here but, This is a quote that is about the tibetan book of the dead and you right. The book explicitly guides readers to the afterlife encouraging the dying to remain as lucid as possible when entering the bar though between death and rebirth, within this round the dead realize their fate over several days before experiencing the primary clear light at the moment

29:22 Those who are enlightened see it and ascend, others drop to a lower level experiencing visions created by their karma. The good and bad deeds of life they must confront both peaceful and wrathful beings human emotions incarnate if they wish to move towards nirvana liberation from reincarnation." According to Gregory Shushan who I've interviewed since the last time we talked The book so closely corresponds to the near-death experience that it can effectively be seen as verification that the book genuinely is what it purports to be, a preparation for what happens at death.

29:58 And i just thought the concept of confronting beans that are human emotions incarnate is definitely in the wheelhouse here i recently interviewed someone who thinks that when a person has experiences like a whitley streber archetype. That if you go back it's probably unresolved trauma, Not that these beans are related or attracted to the trauma but that it's something manifesting from inside because you're not dealing with what's inside your projecting. It out and it's coming at you from a third party perspective But I mean that right there human emotions incarnate now, that's after your dead but if this mechanism is there in any way shape or form maybe the Lines between life and death and these things spilling over into life are there Maybe that's a pretty good clue to what the answer to these things are. Yeah I mean I find myself sympathizing with ideas and concepts like idealism more and more lately the idea of that

31:01 everything is based in consciousness. I think that perhaps emotions are the very thing that reality runs on, right? And it's part of the reason that I've become sort of frustrated with people needing any sort of proof for these things to exist and I don't just stop at you know photographic evidence or audio evidence i'm talking about your eyes and ears like it frustrates me and maybe I've been doing this for a little bit too long but if It frustrates me that we cede supremacy of those senses. We see the supremacy of our other senses to those senses, right? We have to see it. We have to hear it. We have to smell it as I've talked about in the rest of the seat. Even if you don't have any of those things going on there is such a thing as feeling something in your gut and there is a world between your ears which is probably no different from the world around your ears and outside. And I think that

31:57 So much about our lives would make a good deal more sense if we could really grasp the false dichotomy between interior worlds and exterior worlds, and to start to realize that these things are both reflections of one another. And that we don't necessarily have to see something or hear something to know it's there. That might really be all that psychics are tapping into right? They're sort of abandoning the pretense that we need to see or hear things audibly with our organs and we can just sort of reflect and pay more attention to those inner ways of being. I think that might be what's going on with psychics in general. Could be, and there is this world of felt experience right? So anybody who has had any sort of experiences with the paranormal or strange which i have throughout my life... And if you have had those moments then you have your own language for them and you have your own approach to what they could be and you wrestle with that probably for your entire life

32:51 And so it's gonna be unique to everybody because everybody does have a different opinion everybody does have a different. Culture and background what's really sad is that we are obligated to apply ourselves to post industrial sort of mentality when looking at something that is literally a primeval part of the human experience, impossibly the larger cosmic experience right answer when i think about weather a particular experience may be valid or not again i go back to you how does that person feel right and so for whatever reason.

33:29 We have shied away from listening to each other and i think that unresolved trauma great your point is a byproduct of us not listening to each other and not talking to each other. I'm not resolving issues at scale which is part of this meta crisis that we exist in today and i go back to reality in the nature of it When are friend harry potter dies and goes to king's cross station any meets up with the great wizard albus dumbledore never insult them from me but you go to many says. Is this real is all my head and i was just of course it's on your head why shouldn't that make it

34:05 And so, like this idea that consciousness is the thing. This idea that we're exploring this stuff through our mind through our feelings it's really an old idea and we just now got perverted to where science becomes religion in a lab coat and you're supposed to be convinced that there's nothing There's no they are there unless you can view it under a microscope? I think that kind of unraveling face of a lot of change going on Yeah well said So this is getting a bit heady let's bring it back to brownies and ritual murder i mean i took a note i'm definitely gonna come back to that but just really crescent. Lake itself this is kind of an area that has hotbed for more strange activity than just this instance and,

34:53 It's funny cuz i've been in that area a lot of people don't even know the continental united states has a rain forest and i've been up to the whole rainforest really fun cool area to see crater lake not exactly close but also serene. Crazy place and i just love the whole area from crater like to the whole rain forest and this sits in that area more towards the top but, I mean i've heard that this is a big foot hot spot i've heard that ryan you got involved in a facebook group about the paranormal and the stories just kept coming talk to us about some of the more bizarre things that, this region seems to be known for everything i talked to you about here in this next day tribe is gonna be what literally catalyze the friendship between catching because. I was struggling right i knew keel i knew the window area concept

35:43 And I knew then through my research in the region that the whole rainforest, as you mentioned is actually the single highest spot per capita of Bigfoot reporting on the planet. Oh shit! And that that has the crow flies it's a good 20 miles from Lake Crescent. I knew that we had a paranormal thread going on in the Facebook group for Port Angeles citizens but I had to sneak my way into thanks to my unknown researcher who I won't put on blast in public but Very private and the day were very fine and so i got in and they were willing to talk about like crescent and there was everything from you know folks who are of the tribes out there. Sharing your notice some of their stories about what's going on in the lake there are people that experiencing or the woman in white,

36:28 What traditional ghosts aliens and ufo's and all alien like creatures. Little people right to get into the brownies and stuff and so all of this stuff kinda came flooding out us in i guess i was sort of trying to say okay, Now my brains broken so that's why i went to the obi want can be with josh and sort of said help me out one year my only hope not not over you want. You're gonna impersonation and explain some things to me, so i think i always wanna make it do that but let's go ahead tell us in terence voice where u took that conversation how my goodness

37:11 I don't know if i have an applicable Terrence quote for that specifically. While you think about it, the ritual murder component in the satanic panic there was a retired FBI guy named Ted Gunderson who kind of got popular for a hot second he's on Geraldo Rivera you can find the episode out there he makes the claim That there will be a body pile of ritual burial ground discovered in the woods that are again adjacent as the crow flies sub 50 miles from Lake Crescent. And it makes it into the press, there was a collection of this stuff and

37:48 I went from brownies and what do we do with that to this satanic panic influenced aggregor of potential ritual murders that probably didn't happen. God forbid, let's hope they didn't but there was all of this stuff that was just ripe in this little area and the whole Pacific Northwest is a hotbed for strange stuff but for whatever reason, this little area all the way back to Kenneth Arnold is attracted to this stuff maybe it is an archetype in and of itself maybe it is inevitable Slide into a region having all of this lore but for whatever reason. I can't tell you how smart enough to be able to differentiate it and know what to do with it

38:24 But it all kind of came at me and I had to look at different resources to try to contextualize it. And there's a lot of things in the film that you didn't see, but what you did see was a great example of how story is going to interface an Israel keys. So Israel keys was a serial killer that killed himself in jail after being caught he's known from a body count standpoint too. I think he's somewhere around seven or eight bodies that are confirmed But it's rumored that he killed just a ton of people. And if you look him up, he's a very disturbing guy." I found his interview tapes because he had lived out in the area by Lake Crescent and apparently at some point admitted to putting a body in Lake Crescent. So then I went in and looked up his interviews, looked up all the transcriptions from the FBI, and I found this segment where he was talking about Lake Crescent

39:12 And says basically i'm not quoting him but basically he says that you should have known I thought you would've known this is one of the places i would put a body because it's got history essentially and as soon as he said it i might keep talking about the story. Because people know this story out there and so then a serial killer goes in here to putting a body down there and he assumed that the body would be in the exact same condition as when he put it in, which goes back to Hallie and to her being saponified and basically being a statue that emerged out of there. So he knew this story I think and there's just all these different variations on it some are very disturbing and very dark and then others are a bit more whimsical and fun but there was no really great way to parse the data you just sort of had to sit back and take it all

40:03 what context does an audience need to have? And again, that was where I sort of had a lot of outside help. Yeah and i think one of the things that emerges out of Lady Of The Lake and it's part of what I love about watching it you know re-watching is that you get about two thirds of the way through your like What the hell am I watching because there are those take a turn into this other territory that we're not used to seeing in ghost media or true crime media and I think that's the discussion that we need be having the fact that some of these manifestations of Halley around the lake have all the earmarks of what you might call urban legends.

40:43 There's a story of how she is signaling to drivers to slow down or be aware of an abrupt curve so that they don't go off the road. I mean, that's classic urban legend stuff where i am there's a story about trucker who went off the road on in montego Tennessee and does the exact same thing like you'll find this story everywhere but people still report these stories outside of that sort Matrix of folklorists that talk about these things as being recurring themes and motifs. So what do you do with the fact that some of these sort of broader stories seem to use the events of her death? As sort of a vehicle, it's sort of a launching point just sort of enter our reality similar to that

41:25 You've got these stories of Hallie crying alongside the lake, which is very evocative of the stories from Latin America of La Llorona who's seen in white weeping alongside the lake. As Ryan alluded to you've got all this sort of window area strangeness there from Bigfoot UFOs to these stories of little people And Claude Le Couteau, former Sorbonne medievalist said that fairies were so closely associated with bodies of water that they might be considered primarily of an aquatic element. You've got stories of sirens luring people out to their death in bodies of water. Oh yeah, fair enough. Paging Dr. Knowles! You start to view this as variations on a theme or as attributes of lived experience being plugged into a broader story

42:13 it does paint a picture that we are dealing with something that really transcends the narratives that we've all grown up with and the narratives that we've all sort of come to expect, to the extent that you know it's not a household term. People talk about the ETH, the extraterrestrial hypothesis in regards to UFOs there is a similar stranglehold in parapsychology regarding ghosts that you could call the DPH, you know the dead people hypothesis And look, I'm very sympathetic to ghosts being the dead. That obviously plays some sort of role in whatever that contact is but it still remains a hypothesis and before even getting into stuff like you know emotional imprints on the land or the stone tape theory i think we also should pay some attention to how these stories and myth themes seem to repeat themselves

43:00 And often repeat themselves alongside other things that are considered just a novel yeah i'm with you there and glad you mentioned ufo is because i did want to. Can i jump over the ufo topic while we're still in this first hour so we can kinda slide in some current events because people gonna wonder why the hell, i'm not talking about it cuz i booked my show when advance wasn't expecting weird shit to happen but i guess i should have But there really is a lot of ufo stuff going on right now obviously some people think the drones over new jersey were more than just rounds and now people are saying that they're not just over new jersey the rover denmark their all over the place people are suddenly recording weird stuff in the sky.

43:43 And then the cyber truck bomber apparently had some manifesto about the drones using anti gravity propulsion, who is on released a book not too long ago that talks about eight and surgeries to remove implants where the implants move deeper into the body to get away from the surgical tools. It is hard to keep up with these things the congressional hearings the new whistleblowers I don't follow it as closely as i should even though it is my job to be somewhat aware because its not the context in which i'd like to think about forty and ufo's paranormal stuff it's all just very. Military heavy but if you look at the ufo forums today or the ufo subreddit, it's flooded with drone stuff it's funny because the conspiracy sub reddits are talking about us and the ufo subreddit are talking about

44:36 Military side up conspiracies and that's a little unusual but in the context of all the geopolitical tensions is just weird that this dead guy as this manifesto and says well these are china's things we gotta be scared, and then he goes on the sean ryan podcast i don't have anything bad to say about sean ryan but. The FBI comes out and verifies the manifesto is authentic before the podcast comes out it's like windows the fbi or the pentagon ever verify anything they either say nothing are they denied deny deny so, it stinks to me but it is interesting that we're talking to the king himself can catch in. And you gotta have some thoughts about these recent events and news stories

45:26 I'm going to try to address as many as i can. The first thing is that none of these stories are new the moving implant under the skin you can find examples of monks writing in their diaries about the devil putting a pea-sized object on their skin that always flees from the touch so, these are always old stories that get co-opted and reused by authority figures right? So it's point one um on the drones writ large It's an amazing time to be interested in UFOs and to see this happening, right? Because. The phenomenon has always adjusted to expectations. You have the steampunk airships around the turn of the 20th century moving into these art nouveau flying saucers in mid-century, into the black triangles of 80's and then come 2017 we're all talking about this Tic Tac, Tic Tac, Tic Tac drones We've been primed to view UFO phenomenon as a drone And I've had some friends who said yeah but people aren't really seeing those and I said just wait

46:24 And now in the course of, you know three short months that's the way that the American public has been conditioned to think of UFOs and UAP as drones. To the extent like they might as well be synonymous in coverage right now so I think this is one of those watershed moments where the UFO regardless what the drone actually represent right? regardless of what they are, the public how it's changing the minds of people is to think of UFOs as drones. So I think it's another example of the phenomenon really plucking a commonly reported shape out of the zeitgeist and applying it to its form in function second part of that regardless of what the drones were. I do think some people are seeing some genuinely anomalous stuff some stuff that might not even be terrestrial maybe the phenomenon is being attracted by all the extra attention in the skies or

47:11 This is how strange our skies always are. And it's just now that people are paying attention and looking up, you know, looking up and seeing things until they're finally realizing how strange things can get. They saw the Superman trailer! Right? Yeah. It's a bird, it's a plane... no, it's a drone. We've got a constellation of things going on here we've got some shady terrestrial drones, we've got some abject misidentifications of very mundane things, and we probably have some strangeness out there too I do not know what to make of it or the manifesto as it came out. conspiratorial flashpoints coming together as you alluded to with the different subreddit sort of cross pollinating in that way. I'm trying to remain aware of the fact that flatters my sensibilities and that I love seeing how these things are connected, but does feel a little bit too parsimonious to me and if it flatters my sensibilities, I usually become quite skeptical of it right away so amen here's been my biggest problem throughout this whole drone flap and I do appreciate

48:20 the coverage of the manifesto because it does resituate this. Ufologists are so obsessed with exopolitics that they forget about geopolitics, which still exist and are still a thing and present a more ominous threat and concern than any of the exopolitic stuff right? So I do appreciate the fact that people are talking more about geopolitics in the past 24 hours since all this came out But at the same time, that could be a cover for something as well. So I think that the best sort of remedy for all this for me, at least and people can take this or leave it is to proceed with open minded interest and two constantly perform a gut check and see what they think about it. I do think that's something about the Las Vegas incidents don't pass the smell test but I could have told you that on day 2 so who knows? It's just

49:15 Here's your Terrence McKenna quote, Brian. You wanted a Terrence McKenna quote? Okay! It is this idea that we're cascading towards an ever-increasing advent of novelty that will become so suffocating and frequent that the only thing by which we recognize our entire reality is the ever increasing novelty." And he was right. I mean like let's take a step back and say Time wave zero might not have been spot on and the timing might have been funny although a strong case can be made that 2012 is one thing started to sort of get strange. Yeah I interviewed a guy whose whole claim was that we all died in 2012 yeah for those well yeah but you know the point is, is that the broader point that Terrence was trying to make? Is that yes We are on an asymptotic curve towards ever increasing novelty That seems To be apparent anyone paying attention

50:07 Yeah, and I just want to say two things. Number one, to riff on McKenna in the last interview that he gave where he's out in Hawaii and going into some of that stuff, He talks about how he fully expects us to be able to transfer consciousness from one body to another, to travel faster than light speed have all this amazing technology while at the same time we're displaying unlimited barbarism and killing each other and doing all these terrible things and that both both of them will be happening at scale. And I think that sort of novelty is absolutely the state that we live in, and I'm not a parapolitical person but

50:48 I do believe that we are sort of existing in an MK ultra sort of state. Oh, now we're in now we're cooking with gas run and have been for quite some time. So now that that's become the norm, I can basically talk about the drones this way just to say this is my thought on it. The disclosure which is what's happening? The disclosure is a cover up but the coverup is the disclosure so the fact that they're even engaging with the cover up to me implies that you know we're getting to the point where it's like we're getting softened. You know to be able to like experience more things based on the brookings institute and i'm sure there's a trajectory that makes sense for larger apparatus like the government in that way plus all of the political implications and commercial locations come along with maybe hiding some of that technology or whatever has been going but at the end of the day, i go back to

51:48 Isn't it amazing to see people feel enchanted by this whole process? And if they can avoid the razor wire of World War III or impending reptilian domination, if they can avoid those two things and just for a moment suspend disbelief and find themselves engaged with this experience of life. Whatever's piloting these things... I love seeing people talking about this and not talking so much in the pejorative about life for a minute. That was really inspiring to me." That's what all good eschatology does, right? Is it has a re-enchanting sort of quality to it. It's that old question like if you knew today was the last day on earth what would you do and everyone's answer is hugging loved ones having the best meal that they could have going outside and hugging a tree and putting their toes in the grass like it's all about stuff we do at Day To Day and take for granted so

52:43 Really confronting mortality be it of yourself or the world does and so yeah that is a positive side to this seeing a ufo as a beautiful thing. That's the component that i think is missing and you know we go through cycles like this too anybody who's into film history can easily refund star wars emerging out of dirty harry right and all of the sort of fantasy movies coming out of these darker times and as a response to them. So I really hope personally, that we're walking the razor edge towards the next Harry Potter or something as opposed to World War Three but there's definitely a really dark sensibility to this time period as well so i can see how people are responding to it in a negative way

53:30 But I would also venture out on a limb and just say stop looking to the government to qualify your existence. Stop looking to the government, to justify your lived experience and stop looking to the government for it. Your source of truth right we go back to how are you feeling? Right in your stomach How does it feel when you saw that thing that you saw in your stomach? How does it feel when you hear these people talk who are talking use that You had that beat now to go ahead and try to use it now, see how that works out because in the end. That's gonna be the best parameter for truth you have because we are moving into that wacky mk ultra novelty period and you can i have to assume that you are your own best advocate it's like when you go into the hospital you really are your own best advocate you're kind of been not limited space right

54:20 Amen and not to take us too far in a conspiracy land but you said i'm culture first ryan so i can say it now but you know, Both of the new year's day attackers the new orleans guy and the cyber truck guy they both spent time at fort bragg, and for bragg is known for having a psychological warfare division it's basically the mk ultra hub so you have to x military guys. Who did time in the exact place i mean if you know the michael aquino stuff that all comes out of fort bragg to. It's like some darks going on there that is a real hub for this activity and how it's crossing over into ufo space well and you know what occurs to me that someone doesn't necessarily need to go through mk ultra experiments experimentation on youtube be in that million oh and yeah if we do believe as people like,

55:17 Personals have talked about him kills are being more about calling down demons than anything else. You know it stands to reason that something like that could be called down and sort of set up shop in the location and then have an entire array of people to pick from regardless whether or not they were actually approached you're not just the fact with something dark my hover around locations entirely plausible me and if your read like program to kill there is actually paper trail for these sorts of things happening To what extent is obviously kind of spurious but there's definitely a paper trail for some reason you know people becoming having tendencies towards these sorts of violent outbursts after participating in certain types programs being in certain places. Definitely correlations that you can draw like that's common sense everybody knows it can you attribute some sort of government program to these things that spirits and its total conjecture but how do u feel

56:14 When you see where is that when you see this stuff right and like for me what i think with these activities is that we are just headed into the cuckoo land. And if u ever taken psychedelic medicine and had to get through it, and if you feel like your gonna die and you just have to lean into the death like here's where you are You're in that space where this is gonna get weird. I personally think it's going to intensify to the point of these demons and the idea of this demon haunted world not to make too much Sagan was against it right but like, This idea of the demons. I kind of have had this wonder in me about the UFO phenomenon as it sits

56:57 Because Josh, you made a comment we're on show the other day about the potential for the Tic Tac or the drone even becoming the next physical visual manifestation of the UFO phenomenon in a long series of them right from airships to drones. So you're talking about that and I was thinking about if i were hungry non human intelligence sitting on the other side of the veil actually needed belief to exist right I would be looking at the world and going it's so secular how do i get people to believe in anything again and i think that shaking the tree proverbially here could be almost deploy from a hungry, psychic entity that does want us to speak your point on that.

57:41 Is there like a precedent for alignment between the changing modes of how we experience, let's say the UFO and also folklore or traditional religion around entities that are looking for belief to manifest? I'm sure you could draw some rough correlations between the 80s ascension of The New Age and sort of how that was an inflection point when things changed. And You know, obviously world wars tend to have an outsized impact upon spirituality too so that might be tied up in the whole Kenneth Arnold era of flying saucer era. I think that if not orchestrated by some sort of outsized meta intelligence that this time period is just scheduled i find it really fascinating to me that we're going through all this and that look

58:35 I've been historically very critical of disclosure but i think we can all say that it seems as if some sort of gains have been made, if in no other way than getting people on the street to say yeah there is something funny about this stuff. That's a sea change right? Yeah it's sad how little... How little it takes! We get..yeah I mean the crumbs you know were really just eating crumbs here but But that is a sea change and I think the success of that movement for whatever you want to call it, and I think it still falls short of what it could accomplish or what they seek to accomplish. But still the relative success of that movement coupled with a lack of faith in authority structures coupled with

59:13 bizarre geopolitical tensions. I think it all speaks to the time that this is trickster time, like I think that these things are not unrelated at all. That's going in the title. Well, I just think that it's... This ties back onto some stuff that I first learned about and some of your conversations with Gordon about Fort Stamets. It does seem like as if there is a prescribed time where it is trickster time now and The level of not only acceptance, but fluency with which I see people discussing the UFO topic in particular is quite shocking. Yeah, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with average people on the street where, you know they asked me what I'm into and I mentioned the UFO thing. And I'm preparing my spiel to say that I don't think it's ET right? And before I can even say that the person will say, I think they're interdimensional and like what in the John Keel did you just say like how has this discussion moved such that people will sort of offer that regardless whether or not its accurate or not like thats a bizarre thing

1:00:10 Another example that I've been using lately is, you know, I used to not talk to people at my church about what i'm into because it opened up a whole can of worms and the obvious conversations that have come out of that. And now I'm at church functions and people are coming up to me asking me about Skinwalker Ranch and Chris Bledsoe and its like... What happened? Tied into that ever increasing novelty probably tied into the 2012 shift, probably tied into this trickster era. And I think these things whatever gains disclosure has made, I don't know if any of them would have been made in any other time period. I think that this is a top down sort of permission to do this from forces we can't comprehend

1:00:51 The coyote is on the proud being aware of situation where so important. Amen amen well said okay well i think this was really great we gotta find some place to land I will be honest when i put my producer had on and i was like getting ready for this as you know we rescheduled because i need more time to figure this thing out because i was worried how are we gonna talk about this film. That is long as the interview that i needed do, add not give away the whole god damn thing and you know now this is one of my favorite ones in a while so it all worked out and

1:01:27 What's the promo thing one more time tell them where they can see lady of the lake tell me about the upcoming projects mentioned anything else you got going on i know josh wrote a novel to if you haven't done enough to make me look lazy. Hit with all the good stuff right now it is already in the lake details and video that, Yes so the lady of the lake streaming on all the platforms but we prefer you go to amazon or itunes if you can because they give us the most coin. Movies a cheap and like i said yourself finance if u like it weird in your life get your individual self then keep sponsoring people doing that and then online, you can follow creepy kingdom to see them manager stuff company does

1:02:09 That's the best way. I'm not that interesting on social media. You are the co-creator of that company, right Ryan? Co-owner yeah. Co-owner yeah cool! And since we've spoken last, I have a novel that's out called Them Old Ways Never Died. And I have another nonfiction book pending in the spring hopefully if everything goes well called Fourth Wall Phantoms it's all about fictional incursions entering our reality and what that possibly says about the UFO question and spirit question and cryptozoological question.

1:02:49 Available for your viewing pleasure and the documentary Cosmos that can be found through YouTube, Apple Plus and Amazon Prime. We are still in pre-production on a documentary together, Ryan and I on the UFO topic. So look for some news to continue to come out for that in 2025 probably some other TV stuff coming up later this year that will be making an announcement on but to find out when and if that is happening you can head over to JoshuaCutchen.com J O S H U A C U TCHIN dot com And you can track me down on Facebook and Instagram If you are so inclined

1:03:27 Love it like you done that before but you still miss something so i'll swoop in with an assist and say that you even have a course that people can take i do have an indy course thank you um, your welcome part of the reason to slip my mind is because actually offered at this past spring but its available through the cosmos institute. They were so pleased with the result that they have actually made it an evergreen course and all the classes were recorded. So if you're interested in that, you can go over to cosmosinstitute.org That's Cosmos with a K And yeah, you can see what you missed out on this spring seeing all of my pontificating on the NDE Thank you for reminding me of that Of course! It's what I do I got too many things going on What could I say? I know, I know Man Makes me feel like I should be doing so much more

1:04:15 But anyway this is really great i super enjoyed talking to you guys we're all over the map and i think that we covered a really important ground so, i appreciate it and i look forward to seeing the other projects you do take care thank you. All right and boom goes the dynamite joshua cutchen always a tree ryan gruelich nice addition of the conversation Lady of the Lake, an intriguing decades-old true crime mystery that was only unraveled because of the sightings in years since. I enjoyed this film but really enjoyed parts of the conversation that got deeper into their thoughts on broader topics like big picture ideas regarding 40 and high strangeness and also government disclosure and cyber truck bomber manifesto situation

1:05:09 Somebody on the higher side chat subreddit actually started a thread about the Sean Ryan show and their thoughts on that being a genuine situation. And it made me feel a little bit better because I said, I kind of doubted it in this episode and I just thought man... ...I'm probably bringing on a lot of unneeded heat because that audience is so much bigger than my own Apparently I'm not alone in thinking something was fishy with that and that's good to know So I thought that's when it got extra fun and I try to keep from tainting Josh with my conspiracy lunacy but the streams are crossing more and more these days. And i'm glad he was just willing to indulge me a bit on it As is usually the case, The second hour really shouldn't be missed especially if you liked where we were at the halfway point because we got into even crazier stuff from there

1:06:04 The nature of true disclosure, rituals and tension in collective consciousness retrocausality and the future of humanity collapsing worldviews new understandings the human experience in the UFO narrative shamanism and stewardship. The role of trauma on all this. Gurdjieff and the importance of death awareness and living with purpose and active engagement No shortage of good points and little insights. Sign up right in the show notes or at TheHigherSideChats.com, and THC can keep on being one of the last remaining independent and listener supported shows out there in a very ad heavy world. But there is a lot going on out there lots of recent events and shenanigans that need deconstruction And I should have known January would be jam-packed with all kinds of chaos leading into Trump's inauguration

1:06:59 But i booked a few guests on very specific topics and super happy with most of them in ancient mysteries and plasma are great but they aren't really the kind of gas you're gonna comment on current events and shit that happened on new year's day and these fires. There is so much to talk about and i'm gonna get us. A few good guests to break down a lot of it because there's no shortage of things already just twelve days into the new year, did talk about but im probably like usual not gonna be the fastest to break all the news what we will be thorough i can promise you that

1:07:41 But i'll try to be more conscious of that and make sure that i always have some. Current events guests peppered in so we can be more up-to-date on the news but it just didn't happen, end this first couple weeks of the new year these fires in l a man There are fires every year but not usually in january, january was usually the wet season people know it doesn't snow there but we would get lots of misty rainy days throughout the winners. I don't know where that went now its apocalyptic fire covering over a hundred acres and obviously there's gonna be many micro stories and all of that but i did hear two that were particularly sad

1:08:27 First, the Theosophical Society in LA burned down. This was part of their statement. This was the world's largest archive of theosophical materials including a library with 40 thousand titles, the entire archive of the history of the Theosophical Society as well about 10 thousand unpublished letters pertaining to Blavatsky, the Mahatmas, WQ Judge and several other people I'm unfamiliar with as well as membership records since 1875, art objects and countless other irreplaceable materials. The archives also contain works of Bohm, Gitchell, donations from the King of Siam including rare Buddhist scriptures and so on." Really sad to hear that lots of history lost we don't like that

1:09:21 And it's a shame they didn't have a digital archive of this stuff not really a new idea but hindsight is twenty twenty obviously i greatly prefer library of. Original materials but digitized archive is a nice plan b for situations like this and then the second sad story i heard is that my last guest has lost her home and everything in it, There's a GoFundMe you can find on my Twitter, but just another sad story out of what is thousands. Again we will make time to cover all that in detail soon with a great return guest but the hits just keep on coming in 2025! Either way I got a lot out of this interview it is hard to make

1:10:11 40 and High Strangeness shows fresh, but there is a good way to do it and a deeper way to do it. And I think with Josh Kutchen you're always going to get there. I know I said that I didn't find the whole feelings connection aspect to be the most exciting conclusion. I'm just being honest about that. But I do want the true conclusion I want to understand the phenomenon as it is, not as i wish it were because its more exciting to think of it as disembodied separate beings. The more I learn the more it does seem that these things are deeply personal and maybe even emerge from within an individual. There might even be a set of circumstances that all have to line up when only one of them is the emotional state of the individual. It's hard to say

1:11:00 But i like to think that we had this conversation at a high level especially as it went on. With the lady of the lake situation in this instance and particular is gotta very sixth sense by right she won't move on until the story is told the unfinished business is complete, But her body was recovered and the sightings remain. I can't remember the exact number now but there were dozens of more people that were thought to have died in the lake, maybe there's more than one lady? Certainly an interesting story and i know true crime isn't our thing usually but ill take any reason i can to talk to the Kutchmeister And i considered this story a bit more interesting because of the archetypal overlap

1:11:47 Even in previous episodes, I know Josh has told a couple of Lady of the Lake stories. It's just one of those grooves you know? But as for the last show yes with Maja it was pretty mixed bag according to Plus Members She was kind enough to jump into the comments herself and navigate the good bad and ugly there but the rating came in at 4.2 Not the greatest, don't worry if we're still above four But it's clear people had strong feelings those who liked it really liked it knows who didn't were not shy about saying so. Maybe was a little bit broad but she someone who has had this connection to the field from a young age going out of body because of fevers knowing that the material world was only half the story,

1:12:37 That set her up for a really interesting life and deeper connection to the field. And we explored different aspects of that, and sensing that entanglement with spirits... I mean you know you heard it but i was kind of surprised that it was a 4.2. Regardless of how you feel about our conversation to have such a devastating thing happen so soon after man thoughts and prayers right guys i guess there's not a lot more to say i realize it is a bit of a slow start for us in this new year but my editor has two shows in the pipeline right now he's moving as quickly as you can recording again tomorrow i mentioned this but.

1:13:23 I was sick my two kids were sick my wife was sick and none of it overlapped exactly perfectly so. The last half a december wasn't great so we're still just trying to get back up on our feet in the carlwood household, end with the production chain of this show when i'm doing are really work heavy couple weeks that takes awhile for you to notice as it does take a couple weeks for you to notice that i lightened my load But wheels are in motion and it's going to be a more action-packed second half of the month, it looks like. But let's do the meetup calendar thing as we tend to do I'm recording this on January 12th January 11 was our big day with like five or six events. I hope they went well January 13 We got one in Miami at Lincoln's Beard Brewery January 25 Allentown Pennsylvania McCall Collective Brewery

1:14:17 February first conway washington conways pub the locals might like this episode. February third auckland new zealand gail braths ale house february eighth baringsville pennsylvania, mccall collective tap house to places called mccall's in pennsylvania but into different cities i don't know about that Locals can probably sort it out, but go to the Meetup calendar higher side meetups.com for more information on any of these events or to make your own and Gordon I will be having our event here in Tampa on March 8th We are still narrowing down the venue but that is the date

1:15:00 I think we're gonna do what we did in Austin, which is not charge for the event at all. No ticket price! But we keep it to the inner circle of paid members as a thank you. I feel like if you keep me and Gordon going with a subscription to what we do then this can be considered an added bonus because you really do keep our lives running So we're gonna be doing a lot of hanging out and mingling as we do but then we will also do alive interview kind of thing. Recorded, of course for plus members who can't make it and we got a pretty good topic lined up I'm pretty excited about it It will be good to see him again its been... A while In fact maybe I haven't seen him since the Austin event I know I certainly haven't gone anywhere

1:15:50 But that is the show. That's about all she wrote, thanks for listening! Check out the film if you think it's your thing You will find more from Ryan at Creepy Kingdom and of course Josh is as active as ever and his books are top shelf. Big thanks to both of them for taking the time, thanks to you for listening try to keep your head on straight out there that's it from me I've done my part your move Trickster Beans Disclosure Disseminators and Lake Ladies Your fucking move Roads wind around the redwoods, circling the water's edge Many mysteries to see at least the visitors allege Elemental sprites and hairy beasts might manifest

1:16:47 But one legend's most persistent standing out above the rest The Lady of the Lake She sometimes appears A ghostly woman in white, often in tears An unexpected death a secret still Break the case back open, send her home What's the connection between violent tragedy And the strange reported sightings of imprinted energy? Maybe it's tied up in The more you ask The more you wonder what is even real

1:18:09 lady of the lay she sometimes appears a ghostly woman in white often in tears and unexpected secrets still break the case back open send her home