Joshua Cutchin | Paranormal Kidnappings, Changelings, & Fairyland

01:56 Alright, dear people. If you haven't had one yourself you should be aware by now that humanity has a long history of encounters with paranormal entities and a tale that might be as old as time itself Today we call them extraterrestrials, in the British Isles they called them fairies. But stories of these mythical beings behind the veil exist around the world at every time depth and on every continent and what's worse? They want our children! Yes people you better get past those E.T. and Tinkerbell archetypes because these are not your mama's otherworldly entities And of course, it seems like there are many catalysts for these encounters but the themes of kidnapping, interbreeding, genetic testing and even hybridization seem to be the strongest branches on this supernatural tree. While I still think that jury is out on just what these things are and what their deepest motivations might be, there is no doubt in my mind that intelligent beings exist that defy the physical world as we know it

02:54 Whether you get a quick glimpse of something strange in the woods or encounter beings on the astral plane after a healthy dose of something intoxicating, these things are there and few have studied these encounters as studiously as today's returning guest Joshua Kutchin. Josh was here in 2016 talking about his first book, A Trojan Feast. The food and drink offerings of aliens fairies and Sasquatch Then he returned a year later to get deep into his second book the Brimstone Deceit An in-depth examination of supernatural scents otherworldly odors and monstrous miasmas And today we're getting weird with his third approach to paranormal entities, with a subject that's darker than dark. Thieves in the night A brief history of supernatural child abductions

03:39 I told you they want our children. Here he is, my favorite tuba-tickling paranormal gumshoe the king of weird words and brass beats Joshua Kutchin welcome back to The Higher Side how the hell are ya? I'm doing great man it's so nice to be back here a wonderful way to spend late August afternoon everything's just starting to change leaves down here getting just a little bit of color on them and it's like yes finally the rest of the world was going to care about the things that I care about all year round Oh, seasons. Yes! That's something that people experience outside of San Diego. I forgot about that. Those were the days but... Dude, I really love this book. Anyone who has heard your interviews knows that the first 10 minutes is usually just an avalanche of compliments and praise about how well written and well sourced your books seem to be And i'm in full agreement when it comes to books in the paranormal or supernatural Or more specifically fairy or cryptozoology space obviously you can find a whole lot of cheesy poorly written slapped together money grabs

04:43 But all three of your books now make that section of my strange library seem so much more academic and I salute you for it. Well, I really appreciate it You know part of my philosophy is always that even if some of the information in my books goes bad You can find out exactly where I found out about it So it's less a collection of my thoughts and just trying to co-edit everybody else's thoughts And I think that It's important to have Some degree of academic standards when you're talking about this stuff so that you can point to where these things come from Right sourcing is such a great way to offload responsibility. It's like really As the host of a show like this when I have to tell people about it who aren't familiar? I'm like look, I just asked the questions if you want to check it out. That's great. Um

05:25 I'm just the question asker, don't hold me accountable for what gets said. Same kind of thing but to quote Thieves in the Night you start out by saying this book marks the first interdisciplinary attempt to compare paranormal child abduction from antiquity through the modern era and maybe we should start by elaborating on that theme what can you tell us about the process and the approach to this one compared to the others? You know, a lot of my work is really trying to look at the similarities between a lot of this older folklore and what we would call the modern contact experience. Because I believe that at least in the contact experience—less so nowadays with lights in the sky which I think have a multitude of sources—but the actual contact experience between humans and other worldly entities has been describing the same continuum of interaction since antiquity

06:15 But at the same time, there were a couple of different things that looking for analogs and really trying to make that comparison between older folklore and sort of the modern, for lack of better term alien abduction experience because it's most of what people tend to have in this context nowadays. There are a couple things that didn't quite seem to jive so I wanted to put my money where my mouth was and see if i could unpack the similarities between specifically this older sort of fairy folklore slash spirit folklore around the world and the modern alien hybrid program. Some people have taken some stabs at it in the past and have done a really good job setting up some stuff, but there's actually as I found unpacking all this there's a greater depth there to exactly how deep and resonant a lot of these parallels are before anybody you know jumps on me about saying that all aliens or fairies are all fairies or aliens i don't think either

07:10 We might be looking sort of at something that's more akin to a Gordon White ecosystem of spirit model, or we might be looking at something entirely alien in that original sense of the word. Something that we can't even wrap our heads around but what I am relatively certain is that a lot of these contact experiences between us and the other world have really remained consistent for millennia Right I'm with you. I do think it's that blind man holding the elephant kind of thing you get the fairy lore and You're like oh, that's what this is you get the et stuff And you're like Oh No This is the box It goes in but they're probably both just cultural layers That are just pieces Of the puzzle or something that you like you say is just kind of beyond our real understanding and These are the best ways that we've been able to express it at different periods of time

07:59 No, yeah. It really seems to me like a lot of this really does recontextualize itself within the framework of culture I mean again i'm setting aside the fact that I personally think that the actual phenomena of unidentified flying objects represents a constellation of things from Misunderstood natural phenomena to misidentification to government black budget projects to also in some cases Spirit phenomena or psi phenomena also in a handful of cases possible extraterrestrial intervention But it's interesting to me that a lot of the way these interactions have always presented themselves in terms of the one-on-one human entity interpretation has always been really defined by the culture and times that interaction takes place.

08:39 And what about the topic itself of child abduction by paranormal entities? Let's dive into that, because you refer to the book as a brief history of that topic. Where does that trend start? What are some of the earliest points in that history? Well it could be argued relatively easy that Australian Aboriginal lore was probably one of the earliest places where it did start given that it is the oldest civilization on earth They have a tradition of these beings called the Pimera Quetete. It's probably a horrible pronunciation, but that's my best! That in certain contexts not only children but also sometimes unborn children... But you know being sort of mired in the West if you just look at the West You'll find a lot of antecedents particularly In the form of Lilith who is an entity that surprisingly enough a lot of

09:31 Subsequent child abduction folklore can trace its roots back to Lilith, possibly a derivation of a Sumerian goddess Lamashtu bird-footed and lion headed who was fond of stealing children and would take them and kill them through nursing. This goes back all the way about 800 BC And you'll find that motif of this Lamashtu deity somehow in some form or fashion was appropriated by this Judaic writers and was sometime around I believe the 9th century presented as Adam's first wife before Eve also made of the dirt who in some form or fashion debased herself. So certain traditions hold that she refused to straddle Adam during intercourse, she wanted to straddle Adam during intercourse rather than laying underneath him

10:20 This was a great sin for which she was banished and from then on she produced this progeny of demons Which also sort of shared that child abduction proclivity. It's interesting I find it really interesting that in some Icelandic traditions Lilith was actually the one to spawn the fairies And that's why the fairies always had a real affinity for taking children as well But a lot of its starts with Lillith, you know Malak is another Canaanite deity who has some other attributes of child abduction, but it seems like a lot of this really stems back to Lilith at least in the West. Malak is not as popular in the popular consciousness In the underground it might be a little bit different certainly Yeah But yeah So those are really that two progenitors of this sort of motif as we know it in Western culture

11:06 Right on your going deep to talk about the synergy between fairies and aliens one of the things i like most about your work it is talked about a little more these days but you're pretty consistent with that theme and I absolutely think both themes do have the same shape them to read from the book can give people example what im talking about you right In one account, two boys on a hill were enjoying the summer day when a sensation of peace settled over them. Hearing a strange voice the boys sat up and saw a pair of odd men in shimmering clothes conversing in a strange language and accompanied by bright light. They neared switching to English to tell the boy they came from far away and knew the future

11:50 They urged the lads to sleep. After waking and walking home, the boys realized they had been missing for 24 hours." Anyone would be forgiven for assuming this is a tale of the fairies. In reality this story comes from the 1940's and it cited as evidence of UFOs rather than faithful contact. It all depends on the prism which we observe the phenomenon. And I think that it just such a great example and so many stories have elements of both, but I guess if you were to expand on the depth of those similarities a bit more what would you say? Well, y'know, I certainly feel like that particular case was collected by Ginny Randall's great ufologist who is starting to make the rounds again. But I feel like it needs to be said that a lot of these stories, a lot of these interactions this eyewitness testimony

12:39 If you take it on face value, removed from the context in which it appears either an antiquated book studying folklore of the British Isles or a modern book on ufology. You do see these similarities so in addition to obviously the main thing we're talking about today abduction of children You have the motif of missing time, which is present both in Visitors to Fairyland and in the UFO experience. UFO experiencers or rather alien abduction experiencers to be a little bit more clear will often notice that vast amounts of time had passed when they only felt that it was only a few minutes or only a few hours. They'll actually find a giant chunk of time well. Visitors to Fairyland might return home and find out that years had passed you know? A lot of times you'll see this light phenomena associated with both phenomena

13:26 There are certain sects who think that there are, certain sectors of ufology I should probably say who think that there are underground alien bases. Well that was where fairyland traditionally was You see these entities carrying wands in a lot of similar cases. They both can paralyze their witnesses, you might be drawn out to a lonely location right before your abduction well in fairy lore that was called being pixie-led you know yesterday's fairy rings are today's crop circles and some sense even though we could you know go off on tangent about how many crop circles or man made how many aren't emotivically it still there fairies would pinch and prod and poke their victims while aliens perform surgery

14:02 Fairies were even involved in livestock mutilation, which is something that we don't really consider but a lot of these similarities have been pointed out at nauseam by some really great thinkers like Jacques Vallée like Kevin Aspinall like Chris Albeck But there are some other things that haven't gotten so much attention Like the propensity of fairy lore to talk about these small entities supervised by a taller fairy queen Well you see that in the alien abduction more as well where you have these shorter grades and this taller worker grade being supervisory You know it's interesting. In addition to alien hybridization program, which is something that I really wanted to try to reconcile with fairy lore. The other thing that really was always stuck with me that i couldn't explain was you know Was there an antecedent for alien implants in fairy lore? And I looked and looked and looked and I really couldn't find anything until one day it happened upon the phenomena of the fairy blast Which is sort of the same shared german etymology between blast blustery and blister They're all this sort of shared idea which is this idea that the fairies who often traveled on the wind

14:56 or in storms might hit you with a blast of wind because you have sort of offended them in some sense and you would develop a boil, or a blister. And if you look at the tales of what were inside these, you'd often find anything ranging from bits of stone to sometimes bits of bone ceramics or any number of foreign objects. To me, that's a pretty clear parallel to the implant phenomena but I was really shocked to find out that there are no shortage stories detailing string coming out of these fairy blast blisters which you can see as sort of comparison with this modern phenomenon of Morgellons disease

15:34 It's debatable as to whether or not it is an actual condition, but nonetheless the ufological community has seized upon it as a possible side effect of alien abduction. That seems to be an exact description of the same phenomena – this sort of pustule with some string poking out of it. So, the similarities really run deep. I was sort of… would tiptoe around this earlier in my earlier books but I'm on the idea now that pretty much anything that you find in Alien abduction lore will be mirrored in fairy abduction lore and vice versa. I really do think that it's It looks and smells too much like a duck, you know walks like a dog and quacks like a dog It's probably a duck so I think that they're describing the same thing again I don't think either of them have it right? I don't think that

16:17 Little people is the answer. I don't think that extraterrestrials was the answer But I do think they're both describing something that is the same thing and has an objective reality to it Hmm, I agree with you man It's like small humanoids with a green gray color orbs teleportation Missing time the whole breeding genetics thing. I mean you're right. It's very similar and I wasn't even thinking about the idea of wands and the motif of aliens having long thin fingers with a glowing tip. I mean maybe that's just in Spielberg's E.T., but i feel like i've seen that depicted elsewhere and you could almost mistake that for a little creature holding a long wand with a glowing tip, so many things can be considered overlays there

17:04 Well, you know there's actually no shortage of entity encounters. Close encounters of the third kind where people describe a literal wand being held by an ET and oftentimes they'll point it at a person and this will paralyze them well enough someone was paralyzed in Ireland 16 1750 they'd say oh well you were hit by elf shot or fairy shot or you were touched by the elf stroke which is this idea that you would be incapacitated and Your actual if not physically, you'll be taken away. Your spirit would be taken away to Fairyland hmm And so what about the fairies' motivations for taking children? I mean, are there enough commonalities to start to understand what drives this behavior or something beyond just creating mischief. Well fairies would take a lot of individuals they were often fond of taking musicians as well and adult women but they loved to take children

17:57 And there have been various reasons ascribed to why fairies would want to take children. Some of them a bit more salacious, like possibly taking their blood—find that rarely but it does come up every now and then. Sometimes you will find that they are taken to be bond slaves especially in the case of musicians they're taken away to fairyland to play for a fairy wedding or a fairy party or something along those lines but The most common thing that you find time and again is that they are taken for breeding stock, specifically because the race of fairies is their stock has sort of dwindled. They are a sickly race that needs this injection of new blood from outside of their own

18:35 inbred community to revitalize the race. Which obviously again sounds just like a lot of these modern alien abduction tales in terms of the reasons that these alien entities will tell people why they're being taken, why their sperm and ova are being taken or even sometimes you know fully formed fetus but it also sort of serves a dual role so part and parcel of this another reason behind me wanting to write this book was because there isn't a great English language reference book for the changeling phenomena. There is one out-of-print book called Der Wechselbalk, but it's only in German and it's extremely hard to find I think they're literally like you could probably count on two hands how many copies there are So I sort of wanted to compile as much Of this information As I could in one spot and the concept of The Changeling Is that the fairies would come along And take your child typically unbaptized and they would take your child away and leave something in its place now What was this something? Well

19:29 Least common would be like a dead child. A little bit more common was the phenomena of what we call stalks and fetches, which are a simulacrum of a human being typically a log or a stump cloaked in glamour to appear like a human child But a little bit more common than that was they would actually take a healthy human baby and leave behind a sick fairy baby but most commonly you would find That they would take a healthy human baby and leave behind an older fairy man And I say older fairy man because typically it was boys who were taken, which suggests that there might be some folkloric sexism going on. But in both the latter two cases — the replacement of a human child with a fairy baby or a human child with an elderly fairy — and there's sort of a dualistic reason behind this abduction going on so not only do they get to take the human child to Fairyland to sort of help their race become a little bit more robust but

20:22 On the other end of that is this reciprocity of the fairy child, in the case of fairy children. The fairy child actually getting to have human milk fairies historically were known to eat detritus leaves sticks and twigs just junk empty trash and debris That was cloaked with glamour to appear appealing well using this sort of same logic It was long held that fairy milk itself Was a sham as well so the only milk that could actually sustain a fairy baby was human milk So that's the case when a fairy baby was left behind as a changeling. When an older fairy man was left behind, then it was sort of a hospice arrangement almost for this elderly fairy to live out its last days amongst its human foster parents so there is sort of a spectrum of motivations behind this at least in the British Isles now of course Fairy Lore itself has a lot of similarities to a lot of different cultures around the world specifically this idea

21:13 shorter entities that like to take children, but there's also some explicit parallels to changelings in other parts of the world specifically thinking of the djinn tradition of the Middle East and Also amongst the Yoruba peoples of Africa. They have a phenomena known as Ibiku which sounds very very much like the changeling myth itself Mm-hmm and you are right! The mechanics of I'm not sure. Trojan Feast, I really thought that was interesting. That sometimes there would be enchanted piles of sticks or dirt or logs you know just like you mentioned like people would be mystified to think that was a child or it would somehow work as a viable replacement in the tro- in a Trojan feast You talk about that a lot with food as well that once the spell wore off they'd realize It was just mud and worms and shit And I just think that's a really interesting parallel

22:18 Yeah, it is really interesting. I think the Welsh tradition that Welsh changed in the Plintynewydd is what was called would actually appear at first to be a healthy baby and over time would get more and more hideous and sort of reveal its true form. Eventually, whatever these changelings were they would typically be described as having a wizened face and tiny arms that would eat and eat but never put on any weight all they would do is cry maybe unhappy sometimes they would have large heads and large eyes and sparse hair sometimes they would have fangs or beards just something that infants definitely shouldn't have And of course, you know to be clear I think that a healthy amount of realism and skepticism sort of rears its head at this juncture because just as i feel like the unexplained aerial phenomena has a multitude of answers. I think that changeling phenomena itself has a multitude of answers as well and I think that there might be some genuine supernatural phenomena in play

23:13 But it's obvious that a giant portion of these are tragically enough describing children who had disabilities. I think that's pretty unambiguous if you look at sort of the historical accounts of one of these children too, as if the subject matter wasn't dark enough then you take this left hand turn into this justification of infanticide that you find in a lot of these cultures where resources were scarce Yes, that was going to be the next thing I brought up really is the idea that we could be dealing with undiagnosed medical conditions like MS or even autism where a child's development changes and then the parents say well That's it. The fairies took my kid replaced it with this half-broken duplicate and That sounds so messed up but it does have to be considered as an answer for at least some of the stories

23:57 Right, yeah. As you know I dedicate a chapter in the book to just sort of looking at what were the best candidates for this and there are some that are really really compelling and there's no shortage of possible suggested reasons or suggested birth defects that might have caused some of these stories with changelings obviously anything that's onset after birth where it appears to be a normally functioning child that sort of regresses is suspect But you'll look at stuff like people have proposed metabolic syndromes, Down syndrome, rickets, mesenteric disease, Hunter's syndrome, Hurler's syndrome, homocystinuria. Autism is a big candidate these days especially regressive autism where child appears to be developing naturally and then all of the sudden has sort of these progressive setbacks. People say that

24:40 Some of the sing-songy rhymes that changelings would sometimes say might be a symptom of the playful speech that some people on this spectrum tend to engage with. Their misreading of social cues, both changelings and some people on the autistic spectrum have some difficulty with that as well. So I think it's compelling. Honestly, some of the most compelling ones—spina bifida, cerebral palsy, progeria come to mind—progeria is one that I think is a great fit for the changeling phenomena. It's a great fit in terms of symptoms, it's not a great fit in terms of how prevalent it is I mean there are only like 100 people worldwide at any given time who suffer from it but it's a disorder where people afflicted remains short for their entire lives with wrinkled and dry skin, their tooth development is delayed they have a high-pitched voice

25:24 and generally very small limbs. And all these things really map onto the changeling story quite well, you know? But to sort of cast a little bit of light onto the implications of this one of the things that's a stat that I used to sort of put in perspective how serious this problem was of changelings and justifying the killing of children...I mean you've got to look at sort of what especially Ireland where a lot of this fairy lore comes from as Ireland You've got to look at particular island has been through over the course of the centuries. There's a book that is written by Elaine Farrell called The Most Diabolical Deed, and what she did is she did a survey an analysis of infanticide in Irish society from 1850 to 1900. And she looked at deaths from children who were just under three years old. So you gotta remember that for us Americans this is an island about the size of Indiana

26:18 And in that 50-year period, she found 4,645 cases of children who were murdered. Now of course this isn't you know it means wasn't a 51 year period that's just a 50 year period and that's just children less than three years old so if they're over three and a half years old didn't make the cut So that really shows you how common this was at the time in a society that's really starved for resources. I mean, if you look at what the birth of a developmentally disabled child would have meant at the time it would have meant an extra mouth to feed that wouldn't contribute to putting food on the table So it's an extremely sobering facet to this whole phenomena. Mm-hmm Yes, it has to be considered that possibly fairies were sometimes used as supernatural scapegoats for much more practical crimes maybe even child trafficking in Medieval days I mean who knows obviously? It's probably cover for a lot of nefarious things that are quite practical

27:16 Oh, 100%. I mean there was actually even in certain parts of the Americas a fairy would sometimes be used as a euphemism for prostitute. You know? A lot of what we would call deviant behavior including sexual assault molestation infidelity incest abuse these were all sort of put off on the fairies interfering somehow with the life of someone so you know oftentimes again changelings were not just children sometimes grown women would be taken as changelings In that case, you had every right to beat your wife because she was a changeling. Of course you'll notice that there's not an adult male component to changelings. That doesn't happen very often it's either children or adult females so I think that says something about the lore as well. The fact this could be utilized as a weapon by those in power to keep other people under their thumb

28:05 Absolutely the authorities and the Empire and the alphabet agencies have definitely used supernatural beliefs before like leaned into them to cover their own stuff Nick Redfern's written about that so it's definitely a factor these things can't be. discounted, but getting beyond the misidentified medical conditions and the crimes when you have cases that seem like more genuine abduction. To quote the book again, you say, fairies were not indiscriminate thieves there were circumstances rendering some children more susceptible to their grasp what are some of those circumstances? We know as we've mentioned being male was probably one of the primary risks as a child

28:51 Typically they like fair-haired children this idea that is actually one of the reasons that they chose fair haired children was because the fairies themselves tended to be swarthy and have dark complexion. They wanted some of those fair features to be incorporated in their bloodline, sometimes even certain days that you were born on could bring bad luck Not only sort of days within the church calendar, but also just days of the week. Like Fridays were bad news if you're born on a Sunday that was great But Friday is bad news You know depending on the culture there were certain periods of time That would be most vulnerable in The British Isles was between three and nine days in Slavic countries where sometimes witches were the ones actually creating these changelings It was 40 days, you know in Germany it was Germanic countries. It was about six weeks or so

29:37 It's interesting because there were similar periods of time where children were most vulnerable in a lot of Abrahamic thought. They were vulnerable to Lilith taking them as well, so you sort of see this idea of a prescribed period of time when children are most vulnerable. The Changeling myth itself does not seem to predate Christianity in the British Isles specifically, so it should be no surprise that one of the biggest factors putting a child at risk for having a change in created workplace in their stead was not being baptized. And of course, from a folkloric standpoint you know this is tying to this concept of liminality I'm sure a lot of your listeners know but in case they don't Liminality means neither one nor the other so I've graduated from high school But I'm not in college yet the between space which is archetypally where the trickster archetype tends to dwell that tend to be the entity of the threshold This is why we have

30:32 Trolls under bridges you sell your soul to play guitar better at the crossroads to the devil at night You know this is idea of this in-between space and in that sense The time between birth and baptism in a Christian society is a liminal period. You're born into the world, but not born into the church So generally from a folkloric perspective that's considered the reason for behind that and there's no shortage of tales of children who were actually supposedly taken specifically because they were not Baptized. There's one story from Patrick Kennedy's legendary fictions of the Irish Celts who talks about a woman from Grange Who had a child born while the father was at sea? And she wanted to postpone the christening because she wanted the father to be there but

31:13 Time and time again she had to postpone because he never returned. Of course all of her neighbors are sort of watching her scans because they were really concerned about what is meant in terms of a child becoming changing being taken by the dns the fairies, And after 18 months, according to the story there was this great rushing sound in the house as if a number of birds were coming down the chimney and it sounded that they flew out again. From then on the child was very sick and irritable and course the neighbors suspected that had been taken by the sheathed by the fairies. Man! That's interesting I love the idea between spaces and how that motif can play out

31:51 in physical spaces, in traditions and all kinds of stuff. I mean it's interesting that baptism would be a factor maybe there is some superstition there but man if it is well I know I'm safe but my kids will be at great risk good luck kids! Well you know there are two thoughts right? The first one that I have to sort of warn myself against this what like to call liminal pareidolia because I think that if you start looking for liminal spaces you'll see them everywhere And sometimes I don't think that's quite the best way to describe some of these different states, you know, some of these different places and whatnot. You could start seeing traffic islands as a liminal space which is kind of true but it's not...you're supposed to expect unexplained phenomena to manifest on traffic islands but the other thing that i would say is if you look at ritual

32:41 A sacrifice that means nothing to you, means nothing to the other world. So I would suspect that if baptism meant nothing to you then it wouldn't mean nothing to the other worlds so i dare say that If there was someone who was not a practicing christian they would not have that same sort of superstition of their child being abducted or being most vulnerable to abduction between birth and the christening Fair enough. And I think that speaks to the consciousness aspect, that you just can't fool this stuff like if it means something to you, it means something to you and that's an internal deep type of thing for whatever reason has a real effect. And I also wanted to ask you about the types of hoops people would go through to get their kids back in cases where they actually did. You say mounting a physical rescue was next to impossible

33:33 And you say that there is a compelling argument to be made that all child retrieval involved ceremony, ritual or magic. And that's my wheelhouse man! I love that stuff! Yeah i mean so if you look at the things that arise around any protective lore, but especially fairy lore as well. You'll see a lot of similar things like iron was a big thing—iron being placed in the bed of a child would help safeguard them against being taken. Sharp implements were the same thing and of course you see expressions of the Christian cross and the pagan salt these are all things but if none of these things worked and you were stuck with a changeling there were a lot of different things that you could do

34:17 All of them really fall under the blanket of abuse because the idea was that, well if this is one of the fairy people then I'm going to abuse it until other fairies see one of their own being abused and will rush into rescue it. In generally these cases I always find it really interesting whenever there is a restoration of the original child its never really witnessed like the fairies come in actually make an exchange it's like people turn their backs on all the sudden this child that wasn't changing his now the original child which I think speaks to a consciousness aspect you know if there something objectively supernormal going on, it is happening within the child rather than being an actual physical exchange. But setting that aside children would be abandoned they would be beaten they would sometimes literally cooked Sometimes you'd have hot tongs They pinched a child's toe with these red-hot tongs or you'd brand them You'd splash urine in the face of children sometimes It seems like one of the least offensive of these methods was to employ some degree of magical practice

35:15 You have these people in all cultures who are sort of known as fairy doctors, cunning men and cunning women who actually would have all the answers to solutions to retrieve your child. We actually see this in certain African cultures as well And these fairy men, these fairy women would actually prescribe certain methods that would be foolproof ways of getting your child back. And these must all be followed to the T. For example in Wales it was advised to find a black hen and cook it feathers and all above a burning piece of peat. After all the feathers fell off your exchanged child would be restored. In Cornwall there are series of standing stones that are sort of circular And if you pass your changeling child through these stones called the Minantol,

36:00 which is probably a horrible pronunciation, so forgive me my Cornish friends. You would actually have the pixies who had taken your child as soon as the child passed through this stone these benevolent pixies that dwell at this particular spot would re-exchange your child sometimes in certain cultures you would draw a circle around yourself and your family and say anything inside this ring that is mine may the lord protect but outside your power may prevail and you'd actually sweep everything inside the circle out the door and supposedly your child would be restored. You know, there was one particular Celtic ritual that was a supplication to the she where you'd actually put your child on The rubbish heap in the near heap outside the home and He would basically have this form of litany Where you go through it actually call out for the fairies to restore your child

36:53 Similarly, being sort of magical creatures themselves fairies were obsessed with deals and contracts and pacts So if you actually offered something of your own the fairies would have to You know, I'll keep said, you know This is yours. And what you have is mine They would actually for example take your hat and give you back the child as well so there was no one real prescription for resolving this but seemed that a magical component definitely reared its head from time to time Yes, I think that's a really interesting aspect of the whole thing. And let's talk about where these kids go because another quote from the book on this is where you say

37:31 It was commonly held that fairy abductees were taken to Fairyland, but where is this magical place? Most who returned had extreme difficulty recalling the specifics of this marvelous land. If Fairyland had a physical location it was most certainly underground. Germanic and Scandinavian texts were explicit about their subterranean realm... And if anyone loves a good story about subterranean realms, it's me. Of course I'm way open to the idea of a non-physical realm as well but if we wanted to stick to the underground idea just for a minute because I like it can you elaborate on the details of the stories or ideas that these beings are subterranean?

38:13 Yes, so it's sort of a ball of twine to untangle here. So typically this concept of fairyland being underground finds its precedent in the fact that any Neolithic dwelling place was generally considered to be a fairy place. So burial grounds and Iron Age ring forts, all these things were places where fairies dwelt. And a lot of these places especially the ring forts in Ireland had these underground passageways known as Soutarain and these passage ways were depending on who you speak to used either for resource storage or actually as an escape route but in the folklore of the area it got tied up in this concept of The Entrance To Fairyland

38:56 Obviously in the case of burial mounds there are passages and a lot of these Burial mounds as well that could also be seen as these entrances to fairyland once people got to fairy land was generally considered a very beautiful place. If somehow you would have the glamour that we had mentioned earlier removed, it might be revealed to be a dank and terrifying cavern of some sort but that was sort of the general consensus is that You couldn't just walk into one of these passages and find out you'd had to have some sort of fairy escort in a sense for The most part it becomes a little bit difficult because a lot of times the term taken One of the places that we get the term taken when someone passes away, you know he was taken from us so and so and so is because Someone could be in a state of debilitating disease. They could be bedridden Inconscious but they can also be taken by the fairies as if some aspect of their consciousness or their soul or their spirit Was actually away with the fairies

39:51 Similarly, someone who was mentally disabled might have been believed to be taken by the fairies as well. This idea that there's sort of a duality of existence both in our world and in Fairyland as well So, it becomes a little bit difficult. There does seem to be sort of non-locality to it but there are definitely places that seems to be regarded as portals to fairyland one of the places to Tirna Nog was on one of the hills adjacent to Loch Gerr in County Limerick I mean you find places like that all across the countryside and I believe if memory serves Silbury Hill is also generally considered to be a location where you could find a portal into fairyland but its always subterranean Interestingly enough

40:33 You will find cases here and there where people are taken to round rooms. There's one story that's from Lady Gregory, I believe who is...who was rather i should say an excellent collector of Celtic mythology who talked about an individual who was taken to a round room that didn't have any particular source of illumination and a taller fairy queen came up and touched the wand to her breast and asked her to breastfeed a fairy child which of course smells of the abduction experience. In some cases you actually had to take an ointment and rub it on your eye in order to see fairyland, so that also helps to explain why if you were just happening to find your way into one of these underground passageways in one of these ancient human settlements that you couldn't just go ahead and see fairy land, you actually needed a fairy ointment to place on your eye

41:24 Hmm that's interesting and man, leti gregory my old high school nickname haven't heard that in a while oh But uh you know when it comes to underground stuff. I just am always intrigued by Subterranean realms hollow earth and I had Mike Mott here once a long time ago And he made the point that this is Rich lore is always so associated with the culture of the British Isles and if you were some paranormal entity conducting some type of genetic experimentation or hybrid program, islands create a pretty natural control for keeping those people pinned in. And I thought that was just a provocative idea as well. And that is an interesting take on it. I'm familiar with Mike and his work

42:16 You know, I think that in the motif of descending and having to put some sort of ointment on your eyes obviously that ties into...I personally think the idea of altered states and psychedelic experience. But also i'm going to say this people are gonna think that i'm reducing it to psychology but i'm not Patrick Harper who's a great thinker wrote a fantastic book called Demonic Reality in addition to some other different texts That are looking at a lot of this stuff from a sort of psychological angle talks about the fact that you know there's always in a lot of these cases a motif of the subterranean, sort of like the shadow self. In other words you know lake monsters retreat beneath the waves, you know? The fairies live underneath fairyland there's always this motif of something going on below our world and sort of this idea that it's almost a reflection of our unconscious selves which again doesn't mean that I don't think that there isn't an objective reality to these things i think that these things are deeply tied into our own psychology in a lot of ways and I think sometimes they speak to us in metaphor and dream logic

43:14 Oh yeah, absolutely. Allegories and archetypes are... so misunderstood in mainstream culture, barely even understood if at all. And they have huge effects on us I think and i am probably... If I had to put my money on it gonna say that this is some non-physical plane that would be the more likely thing for Fairyland because there's just too many odd details that surround these stories that defy materialism But you know at the same time there's that really confounding thing and actually speaking Patrick Harper he does a really good job of providing a possible solution to this but it's the confounding thing of whatever these things are they tend to leave some sort of physical trace behind. You know we've talked about the idea of the fairy blast earlier, but also I mean

44:04 Looking at fairy lore, there's no shortage of anomalous fairy artifacts including tiny shoes and little vests made out of mouse leather. I can't imagine somebody actually taking the time to skin a mouse to create a little tiny fairy vest! Does that mean that they're literally tiny little people running around? No, I don't but I think that there is something about whatever this is... Well, I think psi-phenomena are really good analog right? Is psychic phenomena physical in a materialist sense. No, it's internalized but they can still have physical impacts on our environment I think that there is our lesson to be taken away from that when you're looking at all these sort of things mm-hmm and You mentioned that missing time element earlier And I really love what you point out which is that

44:47 In fairy encounters, sometimes this missing time was years or even decades or a lifetime. And in alien encounters it's usually a few hours maybe a couple days and I love that detail about that scale of missing time being so different because i recently had Laird Scranton here and he was comparing different cosmologies around the world the makeup of the spirit realm, and he got into an esoteric Buddhism description of our world in the spirit world being intertwined like a double helix with time running as a sort of waveform through them oscillating between being more in sync versus less in sync. Time moving faster than going slower in different cyclical eras which

45:32 you know, could also facilitate periods of more or less contact. But you could broadly look at this thing and say maybe 12 000 years ago things were so aligned that these spiritual teachers are coming down to Gobekli Tepe and having regular sessions with people fast forward down the timeline to fairy encounters and missing time can be decades come forward to E.T. encounters and missing time just a few hours or days, I don't know there could be something in there that relates to what Laird was saying or the model of our reality. No i think a lot of what Laird is speaking too especially in terms of the way that he frames it in his work related to Dogon and Maori cosmology...I think he's on to something really profound there you know sometimes I wonder even if just in the context of the UFO era

46:17 that it's not part of the reason that the flavor of the contact experience has changed. I mean, it's almost like in the Contactee era of the 50s and 60s if there is any sort of reality to that which I contend that there is at least to some degree It started out very peaceful and very voluntary like hey come along We have some stuff that we need to tell you And by like the late 70s and early 80s was like okay well That's not working You know whatever we're doing now you're not listening to us So we had to get a little bit more forceful and involuntary I think that if you look at the parallelism that you see in a lot of these things, and a lot of the ways they're expressed is really important because not only does the modern contact experience it's either going to be direct analog or its going to be an insightful inverse. Patrick Harper again, to quote something he said which I think is incredibly insightful is there this long standing tradition

47:11 this exodus of the fairies motif. Tolkien put this into his Lord of the Rings books with The Passing Of The Elves Across The Sea, and it's literally going back to Chaucer is one of the first references to the fairies leaving the British Isles and there are plenty of sightings of fairies packing up their belongings and leaving in this sort of tradition of oh, the fairies aren't around as much as they used to be you hear that all the time on a lot of these different collections of anecdotes and whatnot Patrick Harper had the profound insight that fairies are always going, going but never gone. Whereas our extraterrestrial brothers are always coming, coming but never here which I thought was a really insightful little way that this phenomena sort of inverted itself and Patrick's great thinker so no surprise if he came up with that But sometimes you have to look at this in an upside down sorta topsy-turvy way

48:00 Yeah, I really like that quote and it is also synergistic with that Laird Scranton motif. It was strong it was potent and then it got less so and then maybe we're on the incline again now but it's never a full overlap but yeah that is uh really interesting man I like that Also, just to flush out the idea that supernatural beings taking children is a theme that does wrap around the world. Tell us about some of those cross-cultural examples that probably describe the same type of phenomenon? Well, one of the primary ones that shouldn't really be a surprise because it's coming from an Abrahamic religion anyway is the Djinn. You can basically do a one-to-one correlation between the Djinn and the faeries some people actually even suggest that there's a Persian term Fereware That is where the term fairy comes from with it The phenomenal was first described in the Middle East not so sure about that But either way the Djinni detritus they hang around old ruins well That's what Iron Age ring forts are

49:04 They're frightened by iron and they have changeling lore that's basically an exact match for fairy lore of the British Isles. It was very common in Ireland to dress a young boy as a girl, sometimes you'll find this even represented in some art from the time but the generally held folkloric reason for this is because it would fool the fairies into thinking well we don't want a girl we want a boy to abduct Well in the Middle East it was actually common to dress boys as girls as well to confound the djinn If you look at some of these methods for retrieving your child, it sounds right out of the British Isles. I mentioned abandoning your children in the British Isles as a means to getting your child restored. Sometimes you'd literally leave an infant overnight in a grave to hopefully have your child returned to you from the ferry as well. Similarly, an Islamic belief would be that you would leave a child in a cemetery over night to have the jinn re-exchange them but again one of the most common things was to abuse

49:58 And there was an example of a Muslim man who suspected his child of being a changeling and the changeling ate everything in sight, didn't age at all. It was just sickly and finally he ended up beating the child demanding that it return its child back. According to this story, the djinn actually returned their original human child so it's really interesting thats one of those profound ones A little bit more nuanced is this tradition I mentioned among the Yoruba called the Abiku. People from Ibo of Nigeria actually have an analog to this called Obanji, but it's generally the same phenomena These Abiku are elemental spirits that tend to hang around jungles and paths and dung heaps And it was said that pregnant women should avoid the spots at sunrise or you know certain periods of the day They should avoid these spots because the Abiku might actually come and take up residence in the mother's womb

50:51 and sort of inhabit the fetus of the child. And this Abiku actually made a pledge in the other world to deprive the parents of all their riches, all their mortal riches that's sort of the goal of the Abiku because again it is sort of a large-scranton thing with the real world having a mirror in the spirit world if mortal wealth was accumulated in the mortal world that would translate into spirit wealth for the Abiku So basically once it was born, the goal for the abiku was to be as sickly and as obnoxious as possible. And so the parents would actually realize that oh no our child's been taken over they would consult Babalawo which is the Yoruba term for a fairy doctor and will actually realize that the abiku wasn't their child and actually start dedicating their property, their homes, their money, their livestock all in the name of hopefully getting your child back. Inevitably these abiku would pass away

51:45 Sometimes you might be able to catch them before death. They'd stand up and stretch their full height, which you find actually in some Icelandic stories of Icelandic changing stretching and revealing their whole height when no one thinks they're looking but In almost every case these Abiku children would pass away And then all the mortal money or mortal goods that have been pledged to it would have manifested in a spirit world at time and the Abiku who would go on to another set of families to do it Interestingly enough, sort of like with fairy lore, placing iron rings around the children's feet or putting bells on their ankles might drive off the abiku. Of course you know iron is a worldwide means of protecting from the spirit world

52:26 But it's interesting too that, this is an awful thing to talk about but it's another you know this idea of child abuse being a cure for this changeling phenomena was actually sometimes advised to put incisions in the child's body and stuff in peppers and spices to make the biku suffer pain and leave. Oh my god! Yeah It's dark This book takes you to some dark places that's for sure So those are two on ones that are quite similar analogues I had mentioned earlier certain aboriginal tribes had this tradition of the Pumericuitéfe, these spirits of the land that would appear as sort of shadows or you know these fleeting glimpses to adults and were primarily seen by children and animals. They could be mischievous like fairy folk they could be large or small often like the fairy folk as well but there is at least one entity among these called Pangkelangke I think it was called

53:21 which actually would steal infants because she could never birth any of her own, she lacked a womb herself. Another interesting analog that you'll find is the Wala of Papua New Guinea that were said to be helpful spirits but if they were offended They could actually enter a mother's womb and replace the child, and possibly in some cases cause miscarriage. And one of the ones that I found really interesting was the Jamaican Duppy tradition which has got to be an import of British fairy belief. But it's this idea that these are ancestral spirits who The males among them will rape and impregnate women, while the females among them will often cause what is known as false belly. Which is the Jamaican term for miscarriage or that actually replace the child's body itself with pieces of livestock or lizards or tadpoles or something along those lines Again these motifs keep on repeating themselves over and over again no matter where you are

54:21 And that's just a little sample. I mean, it's pretty much every indigenous culture... well every inhabited continent has an indigenous culture that has this sort of changeling analog including Native Americans too. That's what i was going to say you cover Japan Southeast Asia South America Africa Native Americans Papua New Guinea Indigenous Australians It is everywhere and these cultures aren't trading stories at the time depths that these stories seem to be emerging. I mean, these are long held traditions real concerns about paranormal entities stealing children This is something that's baked into our reality somehow that makes it so much more interesting yet My favorite ones are when you find a Native American belief That sounds straight out of both continental and British Isles very belief the Catawba Indians of the Carolinas

55:12 talk about the Yehoshuri, which are the wild Indians. They're these short little entities who live underground and eat trash. They braid horses' manes—which you'll find in a lot of especially French fairy folklore is that if a fairy has its mane braided that's because the fairies would come in the middle of night—but they also love to take children as well they would typically take children for an entire week and then eventually return them. It's interesting, there was at least one account that I found of a child who became a tribal medicine man—a problematic term but—a spiritual healer after being taken by the Yehoshiri, by the wild Indians. And you'll find this motif of people coming back from the other world, people coming back from near-death experiences, people coming back from

55:59 Alien abduction and people coming back from fairy abduction having either some sort of actual physical healing abilities or a desire to become spiritual healers or spiritual people in general recurring motif that you find time and again. Right, I was gonna bring that up. It's really fascinating because it seems to be pretty prevalent and it also comes in some other semi-connected realms like entheogen breakthrough experiences near death experience It makes you curious what this is. Maybe it's just being confronted with something non-physical and realizing that the world is bigger than what you see with your eyes, I mean I could see that taking anybody over the spiritual edge but maybe it all connected to a similar phenomenon too? Yeah there's something about touching the other side whatever that means that really inspires you to feel this way

56:55 I think that one of the things that in popular ufological discourse, that doesn't come up enough is the shared similarity between the post experience lifestyles of the shaman, of the alien abductee, of the fairy abductee, or near death experiencer. There's a real similarity there. Sometimes even just being touched by fairies would encourage people to become priests. There was a case from Wirt Sykes' research The lady's name was Jeanette Francis, I believe. And she was actually sleeping with her child on her chest in the middle of the night and felt some sort of unseen force tugging at the child and she is one of a few people who actually was able to wrestle their child back from the fairies in that particular infant when he grew up ended up becoming a priest

57:44 One of the more famous cases was the case of Anne Jeffries, who was a young lady who fell into a trance for days and developed a fever. When she came back she claimed that she had been taken by the fairies and that her fairy abductors had actually tried to court her several times at the same time there is a fight among them that ensued one of them placed his hands over her eyes as you heard this giant swarming as though it was 1000 buzzing flies which we'll see not only in modern day alien abductee cases, but also in some psychedelic experiences this buzzing sound. And then when she returned she had abilities of being a prophetess and also of physical healing so for the rest of her life She lived off of those abilities that she had of being able to cause miraculous things to happen

58:29 Well, that might be an example for the next book. You got taste you got smell and now you gotta get that buzzing hearing thing going Yeah I wanted to I wanted a zig when everybody thought it's because it's what everybody thought I do is they thought I'd Do the sound thing? I'm like, I'm gonna zig when everybody thinks I'm gonna zag instead so but yeah That's definitely on the table life obviously thought about it And you know, it's come up enough times that I think it's worth looking into further. Yeah, definitely Yeah, solidify your place as the five sense guru of the paranormal experience. Don't ask me to write a book on touch that's going to get a little bit lewd. Hello! Maybe this was the book on touch?

59:06 So another thing I wanted to ask you before we wrap this up, because you are known for having so many sources and we've talked about people like Charles Ford and Jacques Vallée. We know some of the big names but who are some of your favorite lesser known compilers of weird stories or researchers in this realm that just aren't getting the credit they deserve? That's a great question. Someone who everybody should be aware of is an academic who I don't think necessarily wants to conflate his name with his website's name, so i'll just give the website name but it's called Dr. Beachcombing's Bizarre History Blog

59:43 Incredibly well sourced academic if you could get him on the show it would be quite the coup I've actually approached him myself about being on some different shows and he always seems to sort of clam up But he has not only released that but also some fairy scholarship as well under his actual name And it's all just absolutely top-notch stuff with a definite sort of fairy bent To it someone else who I think deserves A lot more love than they get is a good friend of mine Timothy Renner, who really sort of helped me too re-appreciate the sort of legend tripping slash urban legend examinations of certain areas but simply because he's such a good researcher and is a real inspiration in terms of the way that He absolutely, you know 100% digs in and really is able to uncover some stuff For example first time I heard him was on an interview on where did the road go? This is a podcast that I'm on relatively regularly. And

1:00:35 And he actually was dispelling all sorts of myths about his area and actually was able to track down public record to prove that there wasn't an insane asylum that had burned down in this particular location. So really dispelling a lot of stuff from a really pragmatic attitude, someone who is a great unsung researcher who I think deserves a lot more love is Eddie Bullard, who is ufologist who compiled at the time absolutely comprehensive collection of alien abductions that is currently out of print, but if you look for it it's called The Measure Of A Mystery. You can probably find it through your local library interlibrary exchange and then someone who I think deserves a lot of love outside fairy lore is Katherine Briggs who compiled a lot of fairy lore and was sort of on the cutting edge of fairy lore renaissance that you see in the 70s and 80s as well she did some great work

1:01:27 Very cool. Always love to give some credit to these unsung heroes, and I know you like too as well But dude it is about that time You wrote another great book three in a row Obviously you work hard and have a lot of discipline to be so consistent And i'm envious of that quality It is not easy remind the people about these books and anything else you got going on So they can dig deeper into what you do So I have three books. A Trojan Feast, the food and drink offerings of aliens fairies and Sasquatch The second book is The Brimstone Deceit which is all about supernatural smells It's called An In-Depth Examination of Supernatural Scents Otherworldly Odors and Monstrous Miasmas

1:02:08 which is looking at a bunch of different scents that occurred in different supernatural cases. And then this one, Thieves In The Night, Brief History Of Supernatural Child Abduction. All three are available from both Barnes & Noble and Amazon or always encouraged if you can buy it somehow through your brick-and-mortar retailer or to ask your brick and mortar retailer to order it for you I'm always a big fan of physical stores I have a blog at joshuacutchen.com, and trying to get more regular with that idea. I just put up a blog the other day! Hooray! Whenever I'm involved in my books, I'm really sort of focusing on that so but I'm trying to blog a little bit more on there But you can also find links to all my interviews and my books and even some of my music on there Speaking of interviews, I am a regular on Where Did The Road Go? With Soraya Azkaf You can find me on there from time-to-time doing round tables or helping conduct interviews as well

1:03:01 Beautiful. Well, man you are a beast of the best kind one of my favorite guests on these subjects and I'm sure we'll do it again until then take care out there thanks so much Greg You got it Oh sweet snails at the Ozarks people mark us down for a big win with Joshua Kutchin finer than fine return to paranormal topics for THC I always describe the show as conspiracy and paranormal, but generally we're super tilted towards the conspiracy side. Though I did set out to replace both Alex Jones and George Norrie, we've been pretty light on the paranormal side for a while. Occult & Esoteric might have even surpassed Paranormal at this point... But it's all in the soup! And this was a great paranormal podcast if i've ever heard one

1:03:52 Josh's books are all really great, and I find him to be a breath of fresh air in a fairly stale realm of study. I do wish we had more like him in the mix but right now he is the best paranormal writer that I know! He brings in scientific explanations that might account for some cases... ...He doesn't really have blinders on for any one explanation.... ....He's an honest guy..... As he said, he's also a Christian so has a lot of knowledge on the spiritual side as well. And for those who say that I don't have Christians on let Josh be Exhibit A! I do not mind having Christian guests, I just don't want to cover or discuss their Christianity necessarily. I'm sure a lot of my guests are also football fans

1:04:42 I don't ask them about that because it's not relevant to the topic and if i had a guest who was a football fan that needed to make every single topic about football, I'd shy away from them too. Regardless all I'm saying here is that I think Josh being Christian is the context that makes him knowledgeable about elements such as that Lilith archetype and I find that pretty interesting The religious stuff is a bigger issue in the conspiracy realm when everything has to come back to Armageddon and the fallen angels. Anyway, I've been reading a little more Charles Forte and Jacques Vallée recently because i didn't really grow up reading them-I read a couple of each of their books at this point but they are really prolific in these weird areas And I do get a little frustrated that I can't find those types of writers in these realms today

1:05:40 I guess i have a little what else is there to say kind of attitude about paranormal encounters. I love hearing the stories, but when it comes to what they are and what they mean... A lot of conversations sound similar It's really hard to find unique approaches into this stuff and Josh has done it three times already. Nick Redfern, of course, has done a lot of great stuff too Mike Clellan... A couple others but Highbrow Paranormal is sort of lacking if you ask me so this was fun and I thank Josh for his contributions and for his time

1:06:19 In higher side news, there is going to be a little gap in shows again because my guest for today the show that was gonna get me started at a good pace in October well that got pushed back a week so I'm gonna do what I can to turn it over quickly and I'm still trying to do those alternative energy ether science shows that I mentioned but some of those potential guests are not wanting to come on for some reason. and I'm going to keep trying to make that happen too. Might be closer to November, the calendar fills up fast around here but if you liked the first hour with Josh today sign up for The Higher Side Chats Plus get the full episodes of THC for just eight bucks a month it's whatcha tip a waitress and i think i'm serving you up so much more

1:07:04 hiresidechatsplus.com slash subscribe to sign up and all your wildest dreams will come true in this plus portion we talked about the idea that king henry i was replaced as a child perhaps paranormal entities have infiltrated our power centers you know how I feel about that We got into where some of the more modern encounters break from traditional cases. We talked about Sasquatch cases of child abduction, fairies and the missing 411 solution, The psychedelic connection why we need more shamans all that good stuff And you know these are a few of my favorite things I think they're yours too and this wraps up another month for me! I think i should get a pretty decent report card right?

1:07:51 Joshua Kutchin, Brooke Sagnew, Charlie Robinson Carl Abrahamsen and Chris Bennett Marijuana, magic the octopus of global control the hollow earth and paranormal kidnappings I am nothing if not diverse right? I've gotten a few emails about the lack of diversity on THC And i think that I just made my case Yeah all five are straight white males but Subject-wise, we're out there. I'm kidding and hey i just have on the guests who write the good books. I don't even know what they look like half the time but I guess before I step deeper in it I'm just gonna get out of here great stuff planned for October tell your friends I'll see you then Your move fairies aliens demons and otherworldly takers of children!

1:08:54 Woke up this morning with light in my eye and then realized it was dark outside It was like coming down from the sky Must be those strangers that come every night Whose saucers shaped the light, but people

1:09:34 I hope they get home Hey Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along? Don't do anything wrong Hey Mr. Space Won't you please take me along The highest side

1:10:20 I woke up this morning was feeling quite weird. I had flies in my beard, my toothpaste was smeared. I opened my window they'd written my name said so long we'll see you again Hey Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along? I won't do anything wrong Hey, spaceman! Won't you please take me along the higher side Hey Mr. Spaceman! Won't you please take me along? I won't do anything wrong Hey Mr. Spaceman

1:11:38 Won't you please take me along the high side?