Christopher Knight | Megalithic Measurements, Freemasons, and The Moon Makers

00:00 You have one new message. Hey, it's James calling... Yeah I'm calling you leaving a message from the Berkshires Western Massachusetts The beautiful Berkshires. I was listening to this newest podcast and they were talking about Russian and translating Russian into English And oh! I was a Russian major in college I lived in Russia and I speak Russian and read Russian like Crime & Punishment in Russian So I have a lot of knowledge with it and what i can tell you is Russian is always written as double entendre. And I'll give you very quick example

00:37 The main character in Crime and Punishment's name is Raskolnikov. Raskol refers to a split or schism, and that's about his schizophrenic personality His best friend Razumihin, razum is sense or reason So...that's it with that I'd love for you to check out my pictures My website is wateroxxphotos.com and you can see where I live, they're just photos of the Berkshires. I love your show! You're a cool dude! That's true Dr. Seuss

01:35 Without THC Cause we know they're lying to us Just don't know me without THC The highest side check show Greg Carwood Company Holy hell, Hiresight Chatters! Drinking a little drink. Smoking a little smoke and making sure my third eye is thoroughly squeegeed clean from sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood And folks we realize just how many holes our history really has and we entertain a lot of ideas in the hopes to demystify the past and come out with a clearer picture of the human story and sometimes these threads of research lead us to conclusions that are hard to fathom and the answers sometimes become more epic than the questions ever suspected

02:19 Like, what if some of the most enigmatic structures we speculate about can be connected through the use of a lesser known set of measurements? And what if these ancient measurements remained preserved in deep recesses of Freemasonry. What if these builders didn't stop at Earth? These are just a few stops on today's Roadmap to Realization and the crux of decades of research done by Christopher Knight Chris became a writer almost by accident, as his curiosity into Freemasonry and megalithic structures led to a series of books written and co-written about this deep and deserving rabbit hole including titles like Civilization I, Solomon's Power Brokers, Who Built the Moon?, Before the Pyramid, and most recently God's Blueprint. A topic that I can't wait to get into with the man who knows the plan Christopher Knight welcome to THC! Thank you Greg good to be here

03:09 I do concur good sir and i'm very excited for this the subject matter you've been studying and the connections you made really do blow my mind. And i suppose a good place to start is at beginning which i believe was an interest in free masonry right? Completely accidental beginning yeah, in my early twenties what did these guys get up too read bad things about them some good things i thought the best way to find out is to join but that didn't throw any light in it at all. So I spent many decades trying to find out where their rituals came from Right on. So yeah, the rituals of Freemasonry they seem shrouded in mystique and that leads to all sorts of rumors but seeing as how you've gone through some of these rituals firsthand can you detail some of the strangeness you encountered with them? Yes because there's very very little it's actually secret in Freemasonry and when my first book came out a lot of freemasons thought I was telling secrets but I have never ever

04:09 ever once told a secret i was not allowed to tell because there really aren't too many but i joined to try and find out what these guys got up to, the rituals were seriously weird every bit as weird as expected stranger again but after couple years i kept saying this about you do these rituals to bring in candidates and then we do more it was pretty much what's the output Nobody knew and nobody knew where the rituals came from so I thought i need to try and find out. Seriously strange, most freemasons will tell you or can't tell you what they do because it's a secret but isn't secret at all they don't tell you because their embarrassed if they told me what they did would seem like you'd go what that crazy why did you do that and then have to say well i dont know really

05:01 It's easier to say, well I can't tell you. It's all secret but it is not at all. The only secrets are the means of recognition which are completely ceremonial and totally unimportant. the actual rituals are published, you know. So most of them it gets more tricky when you get to the 33rd degree of the Scottish Rite but there's a little more shrouding going on there but there's all sorts of degrees around the world which I've joined many of them and been involved with many of them but iIve kept relatively junior mainstream Freemasonry deliberately so that I can learn

05:44 but all of the basic degrees obviously I went through in the 1970s. Interesting and I know you did also put a lot of energy into tracing Freemasonry back as far as you could. There seems to be a lot of different theories and ideas on the subject but what did your research show when you looked into it? Well, You don't need to get too theoretical about it because there is A great deal of evidence that takes a long digging out. I've managed to get back about 6,000 years. I originally expected to get back for 500 years because I have no

06:21 interest in this esoteric or weird ideas or anything that I used to think of as airy-fairy and I thought it was just very matter-of-fact, but it's far from matter-of-fact. It's very complicated but there is hard evidence of connections. A guy called Robinson did some fantastic work connecting modern free mastery with the Templars that was one roots that I checked out, he wrote Born of the Blood and became a Freemason on his deathbed. It was relatively easy only took a few years to substantiate that that was correct that all the rituals used by the Knights Templar appeared to be the source of the core rituals within Freemasonry so i then spent 20 years finding out whether Templars got their rituals from by tracing back ancient Judaism

07:17 Man, that's interesting. So you trace Freemasonry back 6,000 years this tradition back to the Knights Templar that's well established if we go before that are there any groups that had this body of knowledge that we might recognize or worth noting? Well a body of knowledge it is for sure but that makes it sound like it's something in a chest very sort of very contained It's much more It's much broader than that. But what I found is the Knights Templar, who dug in the Temple of Jerusalem in the early 12th century had found all sorts of things that turned them from being poverty-stricken nomarchs into the world's richest most influential people within a handful of years and so what I wanted to try and find out was what they had found and how they'd found it under the temple of Jerusalem

08:09 And the Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by Titus, the Romans who killed 1.3 million Jews according to the available evidence in this terrible war and the Jews, Essenes in particular hid their documentations under the temple of Jerusalem and you know other places such as Qumran where they Dead Sea Scrolls were found which record what was buried under the temple in Jerusalem tell us exactly where they were what was buried. So everything was put underground at this period in the first century, very shortly after the killing of Jesus Christ and his brother James, this terrible war sprung up and everything was

08:52 buried so i had to try and work out what it was that these people possessed that they buried could have been dug up and to do that this was purely personal interest I wasn't thinking of writing book or sharing the information with anybody particularly. I went back to the earliest known times of pre-judaism and reconstructed uh what it could be that they're buried, and I didn't expect succeed but I pretty well had a clear idea because there are two or three strands of Judaism and modern Judaism is little connected to the Inocuan Judaism that was very, very important in that period. So it is somewhat complex but for sure it follows down that route but as you go back further in time he gets richer and more diverse but the evidence

09:41 gets harder. My first book, The Hiram Key was fairly philosophical trying to put things together and make sense of patterns and people could say well I disagree with that and I'd say fine okay disagree but the evidence suggests to me there's this than this but as the years have gone by particularly recent or relatively recent years working with Alan Butler it's hard science you know we only deal in testable, checkable facts. So it isn't the case that someone can say well I disagree with that you say why where's your evidence? We're talking about testable, checkable scientific facts now which is very unusual in this arena because archaeologists and theologists can be the world's worst for coming up with grand theories of the way things are

10:31 because they got wonderful degree from the right university and i think there opinion is therefore extremely valuable to mankind ron actually setting up a group of things correct. So it's unusual to be dealing with hard facts in this time arena but on this journey particular recent years when did you change what i accept being real because i was very very much a factor in this approving of them. what you might call fringe theories. But now I'm in possession of what is deemed by many to be a fringe theory, but yet I have the evidence to substantiate it and many heavy-duty scientists have looked at it and said my god yeah! You're right that's checkable testable correct so there's a bit of a battle going on here but sort of standard wisdoms get passed down universities even though they are complete bunkums. So

11:32 old nonsense. Yeah, I hear that and it is just a fascinating amount of research you've done and i guess to segue into the study of measurements that's kind of where a lot of this evidence gets into some really outrageous concepts that I don't think many people are familiar with but talk to us about how this interest in Freemasonry led you into this study of measurements Well, everything I've done even though the various books are written seem to be on or can appear to be on quite different subjects. Everything is a continuum everything follows through but there was something of a breakpoint and that's I guess when Alan Butler read some of my material and he contacted me said they don't quite know why but you said I think might work

12:23 meeting your work and turn off when i met him it was indeed. I'm done the origins of free masonry light lane understanding of stones but not, stones for building houses, but I eat stones that were used in astrological observation and in ancient super ancient times things like stone hanging structures that were built to observe the movement of stars and planets and so forth. That's what the stonework was all about. Like the ancient monuments there was a particular period when

13:03 Alan and I stepped back to look at some work done by one engineer from Oxford University, a renowned professor of mathematics. The building of mathematics at Oxford University is named after him today the Alexander Tom Building now this guy was a genius and he spent 50 years surveying megalithic sites and he identified that there was a standard unit of measurement or a series of measurements around this one core unit that had been used, that is more accurate than anything we do today in terms of building. It's like human hairs width and everyone thinks the Stone Age period were completely flintstones you know sort of rough and ready playing your records at the beak of some bird but it wasn't it was super science and he argued this and the archaeologist said oh

13:52 oh you're an idiot you just a engineer from university what do you know about geology we should ignore you because your room, i need to look at it when i'm right but this is absurd surveyed. Hundreds and hundreds of sites over fifty years from normal school and down to western france, i tell you that unit was used everywhere thousand years and thousands of square miles so i can't wait one thought which was if this unit of a really good exist you wouldn't be an abstraction it wouldn't someone didn't wake up one day and say hey i think this is really neat like let's everyone use that right what does it look like well it's just like the stick select my list only stick, he admitted that would work you couldn't do any physical works so. My gamble was that somehow there was something in nature

14:46 that was repeatable, everyone could in isolation if they knew how to do it could work this out. Well it doesn't take too long to work out there's only one thing Thomas Jefferson did when he set out to make a new system of measurements for the new USA although they weren't adopted and that is the movement of the earth on its axis which is perceived as a star moving overhead so if you can measure the movement of stars appropriately, you can produce units of length, time and weight mass capacity everything even temperature. Wow! And all stems that was the hunch

15:26 I'm very very quickly bingo we found exactly because it's so basic and important exactly what he did. And then afterwards after publishing the book to say this without the archaeological evidence that fitted it now the proof of any good theories, does someone find evidence that bears you down? We found huge amounts of really important archaeological evidence that just bares this out completely So it's turn from opinion and theory to check out the facts man you know yeah that's not debate nonsense let's debate some hard fax get your ruler out checklist, i'm ready we really seriously waiting of course is that this system that existed five six thousand years ago which is very

16:20 demonstrably there is not something that disappeared it is the basis of the imperial measurement system. it is the basic of that metric system both are two hours of the same thing and can be tracked back in there but perfectly astronomically perfect within this system which shows understanding on the earth but the moon and sun as well. Yeah it's pretty amazing and its crazy hit is it is and let's look at some of that archaeological evidence what are some of the first big structures we see using this set a measurement some of the hinges right. Exactly really astonishing ones were found where not far from where i live in new yorkshire and england which is

17:09 Happy coincidence for me because I've traveled all around the world looking at all sorts of things which is very strange that it's relatively close to To my home, but they were building these things five and a half thousand years ago before they started building in stone and there are three gigantic engines which are circular earthworks which is still there and There are thousands old on the pyramids of Giza i'm not the president of gays are an exact copy of them. Right send it is identical to reduce scale because that's pretty big but there for exactly the same purpose really interesting thing is once you understand the principles that had to be used to site the primitive gaze up

17:55 i need carol all the calculations were done in england but this site is very evident that i don't know whether they did you should not come to this location to borrow a thousand year old information. or whether the people that built it a thousand years earlier were Egyptians that had come to this site, because its very astronomically important point on the earth. So I'm not saying that us Brits invented the pyramids at all don't know who did it all we know is where they did what and how and when because you can work all that out from the astronomical effects. And the pyramids for sure are a copy of Orion's belt, good friend of mine Robert Bavale has written hugely about that Orion

18:43 arrangements in my view is good it's like the upside down but we still have heated debates about that so robots and iver remains this site is thousand years old a far bigger exactly the same layout using the uk and dimensions of it are perfect for the measurement assist system of measurement with identified from this professor alexander tom to the point where they are so detailed and accurate that they led us to understand a very special nature of pi. And we were contacted by a professor in Canada who happens to have a PhD in physics and chemistry, which is unusual. He said this actually a breakthrough for mathematics let alone archaeology how on earth have you done this? We didn't do it these ancients did it all we've done is spotted

19:40 So these are very very important sites and i'm not alone there is a place called phone break. I am there are tens of thousands of sites in western europe that show exactly the same thing, Yeah, I think that would surprise some people that Stonehenge really is just one of many henges. Many stone circles out there and a very recent one, a very young one. Yes, Stonehenge being the youngest and there's not a lot of researchers out there making that connection between these hinges and Egypt in the pyramids. That's pretty radical to play devil's advocate do you think that

20:23 Two different groups could have stumbled upon this information independently kinda like jefferson did or is there evidence that there was actually a connection. That's a good question because for sure there are some basic science facts that would cause people to stumble on the same, things as you say is that it's not the case because there are too many connections like this, the basic unit of area was adopted for use in ancient egypt is identical to that used stonehenge. There clearly was an interchange between the two cultures or it was one culture. They may have been a international priesthood that exchanged ideas and went to different places on the surface of the planet to get different

21:07 astronomical advantage because this Thornberry site for example is exactly one-tenth of the polar circumference of the earth from the North Pole and has other features as well. So they picked out these locations for very precise reasons so it may well be that there was a single what we might call priesthood or group of scientists I mean the priests are scientists for the same thing, stonemasons they were all you know one on the same people Right it all went backwards a little bit when the kings rose up in Egypt, the period of the Kings when they became vain and they wanted to this magic or they wanted to turn into something that made them live forever. And the scientists will have gone home I got what's he doing? It's not about that it's much more important than that but there again having said that is very clear evidence that

21:56 Also what they were doing was directly connected to the essence of what being human is and I had all sorts connections to the way that brain functions. Their science was far from backward, and I speak here as someone that just doesn't believe this sort of stuff normally. Right? Being an atheist for all intents and purposes my life and i'm no longer and I've been very disbelieving non-standard theories until relatively recently and now I have to admit that I've had it wrong for many, many years.

22:35 Man, ah so much information. Me being conspiratorial minded I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of an international priesthood looking for vantage points around the planet and i think that's pretty interesting but you mentioned that you think Baval has it upside down when talking about Orion's belt in the pyramids what do you mean by that? I think a lot of listeners will be familiar with Baval ideas What do you mean he has it backwards or upside down Yes sure, his main critics have said he pissed of it upside down and he says nonsense I've done this properly. And because it doesn't quite fit with the Ryan's belt He said well we weren't that good our engineers couldn't be that perfect and I said look Robert look at it the other way up and is absolutely perfect as indeed the thornberry hinges are

23:26 these guys were not dumb they had methods which i can't believe it, have at least one way of doing that transferring what you see the sky on the ground with huge accuracy with very simple tools but when I believe that they did is that they believed that the world above was I'm the same plane so the people in the afterlife do what will come down on to the permits, show me permits that you looking beyond the stars if they were not canopy. Do they would look the same looking downwards robert looking as a mirror image there was no image they were looking straight down so well i believe them this like an accuracy is due to the fact that he's got the

24:15 the wrong star each and this is not been assigned in both cases got you literally upside down yeah it is just a simple way of looking interpreting the weather they wrote about the afterlife. They look down to the from above And they saw if you took the pinnacles of the pyramid, the three Giza pyramids and other pyramids upwards. They would map onto the stars under their feet, if you see what I mean? Which is a very simple way of looking at it and it's then perfect but Robert's got lots

24:54 energy invested in the original argument and doesn't wanna move good fine you know we continue to have a debate over a few beers every now and again cuz i have a house near where he lives in spain. So we get together is not his brother's very scientific architect and So we have some good heated discussions. All good fun! Right on man, sounds like a great place to be a fly on the wall Now the listeners should know we did just take a slight break to switch your microphone because I was noticing a crinkling sound in the background maybe loose wire or something but i think it might've been a bit distracting so we did change it up

25:34 But to hop back into this thing, when we're talking about ancients having superior knowledge and how this could be. One of the major ideas is that of an international priesthood like you mentioned Culture Cedars or they've been called The Watchers which I'm sure we've all heard of in your work You also referred them as an unidentified creative agency And i like that term too But you mentioned that there are localized differences in the material and the various pockets you found it used, but the commonalities are pyramid building and Venus worship. And it's a curious thing but why do you think these two tenets were always so important? Pyramids seem to appear in every culture around the world I don't

26:16 Quite understand that other than they are artificial mountains if you like So if you want to reach to the gods go to top of a mountain Traditionally, so if you don't have a mountain or you doubt the mount where you want it You build a pyramid and there were pyramids in the United States before Columbus For example. Mm-hmm There are in every culture but the worship of Venus is very different from because it is like a clock over 40 years, it perfectly measures time to an accuracy of the fraction of a second. So if you understand the movements of Venus every 8

26:54 eight years and then more particularly 40 years you've got a superb calendar. And it was the way of timekeeping, the basis of time keeping before atomic clocks were invented in the 1950's so the tracking of Venus has always been super important to any scientifically orientated culture and of course science and astronomy has tended to become the basis of the magic and the voodoo as things regress somewhat. Lesser people who don't really understand the science think it's something to do with the gods, so on... So it gets sort of all merges but its heavy-duty science

27:39 Yeah, I think this thing about Venus is really so amazing man. And I understand what you're saying about magical interpretations and regression but i think there's a lot of real magic out there too! And I've heard the pentagram symbol itself... The five-pointed star was derived from following the path of Venus and I know you've done work on Rosalind Chapel which is another place where we see the path of Venus encoded right? Yeah, the Roslyn Chapel has got really the six-sided star which is the symbol of Jerusalem because Roslyn it's not a chapel never was a chapel in my view. It was built as an

28:18 as a copy of the Jerusalem temple by the people who were the inheritors of the knowledge of the Knights Templar, who excavated in the temple between 1117 and 1127. Now there's some six sided star, the Star David or the Star Solomon or whatever you want to call it which is two equilateral triangles on top of each other is actually astronomical zip code for Jerusalem because if you measure the angles of the sunrise and sunset, they are 60 degrees. So they will naturally form that star so that symbol is actually a symbol of Jerusalem which was first adopted by the Knights Temple it's not a Jewish symbol at all or least not the modern Jewish symbol to super ancient Jewish symbol but

29:10 Judaism of the synagogue of today. In fact, the synagogues copied it from the Knights Templars in the Middle Ages because they thought that's pretty neat so they started to use that six-sided star but that is the basis of what's in Brosnan Chapel and a certain fiction writer used Brosnan Chapel in his best best-selling book. I pinched my observation about that via the basis of Rosling Chapel, although he claimed it was carved into the floor which it isn't –it's just the core design of the main structure. Yeah, I find that so fascinating how they could even do something like that. So we have this connection between some of these old megalithic sites. We have Stonehenge and a connection to the Great Pyramids. Obviously the builders had the same set of measurements—that alone is pretty radical but tell us how the moon actually fits into this context?

30:04 Well, I ended up writing a book provocatively called Who Built the Moon? because Alan Butler and I wrote a book called Civilization 1 identifying the existence of these measurements that are this whole system of measurements from ancient times based around what Professor Alexander Tom called the megalithic yard. We found that it was entirely geodetic in that it fits the earth perfectly on the basis of a 366 degree Earth because that's the number of degrees there were originally, because there are 366 rotations of the Earth in one year and they considered one rotation to be a degree. It was later neatened up to 360 degrees in a circle just to make it more mathematically usable but originally with 366 and this unit of measurement is perfect on the Earth now then we discover that its perfect on the Moon! There are exactly 100 megalithic yards to a megalithic second

31:04 on the moon there are 366 on the earth and 40,000 on the sun perfect you know to all measurable levels we tried every other planet in this whole system nothing at all but it works perfectly for those three bodies which is highly improbable and then you start to look what else is known about them goes beyond improbable as many Soviet and lately Russian scientists, some American NASA scientists and scientists from all around the world have observed the Moon is a very strange object. And it displays all the characteristics of being artificially created and put in its position The mathematics of its structure are such that it's completely a copy and a yin-yang of the Earth

32:02 not only for its dimension, and its movements and spin. Every aspect about it is a complete twin of the Earth. This doesn't apply to any other known moon anywhere. It reeks of a blueprint! There's design going on Right yeah you say in the book that it was built like a swiss clock and i really like that analogy, is a hard pill to swallow for some that could be. Artificial i mean something of that scope but the more you look at space i guess the more you see that math is just too precise that it couldn't have come about naturally

32:44 I'm far from the first person and Alan Bucklare, my co-researcher on this. We're far from the first people to say this lots of people have said it for different reasons we're just bringing in new evidence that is like seriously hard that supports what's already been said of course the casual observer will say what? That's ridiculous! But then have they ever thought Why is an eclipse perfectly the same size as the sun? It's completely blocking out. It's because the moon is 1 400th of the diameter, but it's one four hundredths of a distance away so they fit perfectly not 399 400 and these numbers keep reappearing it deliberate as Professor Paul Davis physicist says if you want to communicate over huge periods of time

33:36 You don't do what SETI does, send out radio messages. You put lumps of rock in space to communicate a pattern and anyone with intellect will go hey that's not natural that's weird and we'll start paying attention And that's what apparently is going on here. Now, okay people may say if they're listening now and think that's ridiculous because no one has built the moon well that's fine that's your theory try some facts look at the facts and then see if you can come back and say that I mean I would have laughed it oh my goodness No how silly

34:15 But having gone through the facts in detail, you've got to come up and go oh I don't like this but it's a fact. I have to know the facts! You've got to and whenever a radical idea like that is proposed one of my favorite things is when you do realize just how often, like you said, you're not the first to come to this kind of conclusion And as radical as it is when you look back at certain free thinkers or intellectuals who came to the same conclusion It becomes a little easier to enter entertain when you see from different decades different time periods smart people smarter than me who actually will go out on a limb and say something like that there must be some real indications. Lots of them but,

35:00 you need to step aside and look in detail. Thomas Jefferson for example, when he looked at ancient measurements he said how come a cubic foot of water holds exactly 1000 fluid ounces of distilled water? He said that is beyond all possibility so he looked back at ancient measurements and said Something going on here from deep antiquity. This is not happenstance, this is no accident There are some design Deep lost in history going on here and he was a smarter guy you will ever come across I mean He and his fellow founding fathers were just like

35:41 geniuses but what did the work he did that with the tools of the available was astonishing but it's just one of many, there are all sorts people saying coming to the same conclusions for different reasons. And it's very easy just to go with the status quo and think, oh of course the moon is a natural object. The fact it's completely different in its structure to anything known in the universe is well I didn't even know that and probably unimportant It IS important! Do learn it These things are so important if we want to understand our future We have to understand our past and if something is going on Something big is going on Of course we need to know about it

36:22 Of course, and in terms of devolution I really do see this. The old founding fathers did seem to be on a higher level versus the politicians of today And then look at the writing and language of that time and how things are written at a fifth grade level today It seems clear there's been regression but i'm skeptical and curious Do you think it's some big unfortunate accident that we've gotten less intellectual or is it the result of an orchestrated campaign from the top? Because behind the curtain, it seems like important knowledge is still traded and shared just not with us. I've spent quite a lot years saying that

37:02 a completely unnecessary conclusion and almost certainly wrong um but i'm certainly less sure now well I know for a fact that there are certain people or there is that there is a group of people that are more advanced than or haven't regressed as much as others have, that does exist. How much power they exert? I don't know but they've been pretty important in Washington DC over the last few hundred years. And that sounds incredibly conspiratorial and I've always sort of despaired of people that have those sorts of views but the evidence is rock solid, you know? Right! I love it man and a little bit more about The Moon...I mean this is so epic who could have done this couldn't have been the cedars of knowledge many many years ago on a previous pop-in no

37:56 This is from the beginning of time. I mean, the moon is pretty well known to be largely made out of material removed from the Earth's surface which is now the Pacific. It doesn't have a central core like the Earth it has various gravitational fields just under its surface distributed around it. It's not natural, and it's not dense enough and its positioning is completely improbable... And this position now is exactly in the position to alert us to its importance. It hasn't always been in that position! It has moved out and out so it's speaking to us now. In my book God's Blueprint, which was a recent book

38:45 I've suggested that God has done this to make a connection. Now I'm not talking about the God of religion, I don't belong to any religion it's just there is an absence of words in the English language to describe what you're talking about and i am talking about higher being that designed everything and for sure designed the universe and not only the solar system but the universe 13 billion years ago And the whole, in my view the whole thing was done for one reason and that was to produce humans. It sounds very arrogant but I've got good reasons for believing that to be the case obviously I can't categorically prove that, I can prove what the solar system does But the laws of the universe are completely improbable to produce us so I certainly don't

39:41 see any evidence that lots of people argue with me at this for with this but i think no evidence of the many other life intelligent life anywhere in the universe and i think we're rich and we have a huge responsibility as such because where did you leave your recruiter and michael gardener and there's been to take There are ways of explaining what this entity might be but that's pure theory. But the fact is that it's pretty indisputable that there is a design going on here I mean take Professor Anthony Flew guy for example he was probably the greatest philosopher of his age, he died relatively recently at a good old age and spent his entire career

40:33 being a champion of atheism, writing books and papers in his whole career. A very famous man saying there is no need for religion it's ridiculous the idea of God is ridiculous and he turned around at the end of his life not because he was frightened to die and said the evidence has now become clear my life's work is wrong there is a plan, there is a creation here. It's inescapable. The scientific evidence is that I have to say it wrong and he died without any religion he didn't believe you was going to go heaven or anything like that. He just said there is a ground plan believe it taken on board and there's lots of people like that. The majority of people who are scientifically trained in the USA for example either believing

41:29 Hey crater or are completely open to the idea of a minority have rejected it. Yes interesting dynamic for sure when you look at the details of the sun moon earth system yeah u can kind of rule out randomness as The factor but if we are it if there are no other intelligent humanoid creatures in the universe of any kind what's the deal with this with this this god is creator that's higher being where obviously there some type of life that isn't human.

42:08 No, I mean that's a very ancient argument. Thomas Aquinas dealt with that one a long time ago You can't say because there is a God, that must have something gone before it. So who created God and the Bible was originally in the plural that God was talking amongst... There was group of them talking and said let us create man in our image he was all plural but that's just folklore of course but it's interesting I think there is a force there

42:48 there are candidates, it's possible to philosophize about candidates but I think it is important just not to try and solve that one. First of all you've got to accept, is it random? Are we just the sort of result of complete happenstance lumps of atoms crashing into one another from this presumed big bang or is there a god of judaism and christianity, islam, hinduism whatever. Or is it something different? Is that just the pattern? Is there a plan? Well religions in its own place and these people that are adherents have got their own beliefs for based on revelation of people

43:37 and profits gone in the past, that's fine and that for them to believe in. But if you have a scientific bent you've actually got to say well what does the science tell me? Well actually the science tells you there is a pattern, that notion of randomness is perverse You're being silly basically Of course you can be lazy and just sort of say, well it sounds reasonable to say it's all just chaos and accident. Well actually no! It doesn't fit the facts so if you're interested in facts um... You've got a attention and if you find it difficult then to sort of identify who this

44:21 I call this entity God, but so just a one better word. You can't identify who the god is well that's your problem! It doesn't stop the fact that something or somebody or whatever you want to call it has done it. It's like you find out somebody who's been very clearly murdered just because you can't work out what the murder is doesn't mean they weren't murdered yeah you've got to take the facts as you find them That is true and it does seem like the earth peoples You do entertain a few other ideas and who built the moon as to who it could have been or what it could have been. My favorite idea is human time travelers but, as out there as they can be how could that be possible if the moon is needed to sustain life on the planet? Doesn't that kind of create a paradox for us to assume humanity started on the earth

45:08 No, there's no paradox there at all. Only in the parent paradox because most people aren't very good dealing with apparent paradoxes. That's me! Yeah that's mostly it... try and do a self-help course in quantum mechanics you'll probably get confused because it's not entirely simple or logical. The only theory, I put out three in Who Built the Moon that there is potential candidates for, the only one that is scientifically squeaky clean is the human time travel one because all serious scientists now accept

45:45 travel backwards in time is possible and will become possible not necessarily for individuals, for people to do it but for materials to do it. For sure! there isn't anybody that's sort of really serious suggesting that that isn't the case. So if at some point in the future, we became capable of sending some sort of drones back, that could create many black holes and I'm being poetic here, I don't know what I am talking about really to hoover up chunks of the Earth's crust to create the moon, to the right density and then placed in the right position. They could do that! So it is only one that fits the facts because another one is that God of religion just did it miraculously but that doesn't actually help or aliens from somewhere else came and did it

46:37 Are you talking about very very early on in the development of the after big bang where these people come from all these creatures come from why would they done it and wind and some doesn't exist we know humans exists with no time travel is entirely accepted as a scientific possibility so why invent this little green man from the planets. when there's no evidence at all for any life of any description even microbes out there so it's just going to be most rational answer from me on that. So that was my role in each of my books and my own thinking chosen changes, i really love to hear from anyone who has got

47:24 other ideas, you know. Let's agree on the facts first and then we can all debate the possibilities." That's a fair point! And I too was an atheist for a long time and i had psychedelic experiences that kind of shook me from that core belief but in this context if someone built it Wouldn't the idea of intelligent humanoid creatures be more likely than a supreme spiritual entity? Because at least we know that intelligent humanoids exist. We don't really have the same evidence of highly intelligent spiritual entities existing. Well, I think again you're trying to rationalize it in terms of the traditions of Western cultural thought which is entirely logical but

48:12 I'm not talking about a spiritual entity, spiritual in the sense of a benign figure that looks after us and looks down on these stations somewhere and cares about us. On one for one basis it could just be the cold logic of the material that brought itself into existence to have a determination to transcend the end of the universe we're told by scientists you project everything forward and we will end up with all matter evenly dispersed everywhere as a series of atoms, a tiny bit above absolute zero of porridge of nothingness. Now supposing if the universe had somehow created itself at this big bang point when there was nothing and then there was something who's time those matter and there is its explosion and somehow this

49:04 and I'm being poetical here, but this material decided that it didn't want to have this fate of being this equally dispersed porridge just above absolute zero. Therefore it had to get an intelligent bit of itself. Now human beings are the earth, we are part of the earth, we think ourselves as being on the Earth but not, we are the Earth so we're like the neurons, the intelligent brain of the Earth if you like us and other higher animals and all animals are one or life is one on the Earth for my money that is and where on this surface of the Earth like cells in our brain

49:48 what if we're charged to become intelligent enough to really understand how to steer the course and direction of the whole universe? Is that our mission? If it is, then we've got to stop doing these silly crazy things. We do need to wipe ourselves out! We've got a bigger responsibility if that's the case and I also believe from my researches there is information and text and communications from this Force embedded in us that we need to release and can release To take instruction of what we need to do. And with this part of this greater force now, that's very philosophical and People who you know can disagree with that obviously because it's it's yet to be Anything approaching proof but the suggestions are all there Mm-hmm so he transcends

50:47 religious thought per se, but it doesn't displace religious thought. I think they can be bedfellows. That's fair yeah! DNA does point to some type of code too that is an interesting thread but another thing you wrote in the Who Built The Moon book that caught my attention was this little paragraph here, he said perhaps the values programmed into the earth by the unidentified creative agency were so fundamental that any intelligent life form evolving on the earth would respond to them. The relatively recent discovery that pendulums go haywire during a total eclipse could point to brief interruptions of this earthly harmony. And I didn't know this about pendulum, but I have had guests that talk about the importance of the eclipses and even equate them with some sort of system reset or hack and it could be an interesting clue what are your thoughts on this? I like to over the years dig out facts but as you get to a fact can take

51:47 tens of years it can you know and you may never get there anyway. On the journey I've spotted odd things, weird things or things that aren't quite fit and you can make sense them so you park them up in the corner over here on top left hand corner your brain and you carry on and then 15 years later whatever something pops out me think ah! Think I know what piece fits into the jigsaw puzzle now and Pentium is like that How to look into the pendulum that thomas jefferson use pendulums it's the way of measuring a basis. all measurements to swing a pendulum because it's so mathematically perfect and precise. But as you say, as I report in Who Built the Moon? They go haywire or they can't go haywire during total eclipses and no one fully understands that there is no particular understanding of reason as to why that should be

52:45 And it sort of points, this is something in the core of my waiting to find out what it might mean. It sort of points to there is some change and the way gravity is experienced and because we don't really understand gravity that means good progress made recently into understanding the nature of gravity But this long distance acting very weak force is to do with the mass of objects. But it changes under this, once the moon passes in front of the sun for example and shields the earth in its normal daylight condition from rays of the sun or gravity of the sun they can go woo! but nothing else can make them do that earthquakes can make them shudder off course

53:37 there's something going on and it's well worthy of fuller investigation but I'm just like Thomas Jefferson, a curious amateur that would take you know some serious physicists astrophysicists to investigate Right, but there are some seriously interesting threads there definitely over my head for sure. But yeah Another interesting aspect of your work is that this measurement system isn't just reserved for ancient things It's also embedded in Washington DC you mentioned it a little bit ago But we know Freemasons played a huge part in this setup What can you tell us about its incorporation into Washington DC? The interesting thing is that

54:23 The ancient structures, such as I was describing these henges in England that Stonehenge included. They exhibit the use of this so-called megalithic yard identified by Alexander Tom 82.966 centimetres. Incredibly accurate and they were used in units of 366. Now, I've been looking at hinges all over Western Europe for patterns of using this system and 732 around the circumference which is double the number of magnetic yards for their horizon getting complicated there but i happen to look

55:17 Washington DC and I was looking at the city from skype or above i was looking for something because i was about to go to washington dc and i was going to something else and i spotted this sort of circle which includes the vice president's residence And I thought, whoa that looks remarkable like a hinge. It was a hinge but it was built by the US Navy and it was build by the US Navy back in 19th century to create naval charts and they had build it to megalithic standards of units and I thought that is seriously weird

56:02 then it came further down into the city itself and started looking at the layout of the design. The whole damn thing is built using megalithic yards and 366 units between all this Dupont Circle, every little bit of the city the park south of the White House, there is an ellipse in the center. This ellipse which is mega important is an exact number of megalithic seconds of arc to the Capitol building and then to the center or the Pentagon back again it's exactly 33 degrees now that's pretty weird itself when I'm talking to an accuracy of inches

57:01 and the door to the Pentagon faces directly to the Capitol building. So we start a look into the Pentagon because that's obviously most recent, the part by the White House has had a very strange history but you think well the Pentagon of course was only built at the beginning of the Second World War very rapidly indeed So you look at FDR Roosevelt building that. Now he was a 33rd degree Freemason, 32nd time he became 33rd degree and he designed the Pentagon and its location it was going to be built in place called Roslyn just a little bit north of Pratt's Bottom where it is now built

57:53 the place it was called Pratt's Bottom and Roslyn, they'd started building in Roslyn because they knew the war was coming. And they knew that needed a headquarters for the military and intelligence, the new hub. Franklin D Roosevelt said stop I don't want it there I wanted down here and he pointed to a place that was all bogged, it was completely derelict and unsuitable. And they said Mr President's ridiculous! And he said look whose boss around here I want it there exactly building like this I wanted building to this design. The design that he insisted upon using is the design specified in the 32nd degree of Freemasonry

58:41 which represents the five factors of the forces of defense in the United States of America and it faced a capital building. And because it was built there, it fits into this ancient old design for the city that stems right back and even the second war memorial that was built in this century conforms precisely to these ancient measurements so whoever's doing it still planning it and still well aware of the units that they need to use and the patterning that they need to use. So as a Freemason I've been on television and radio in the US giving talks so many times, people have said is there a Masonic conspiracy? And I said don't be ridiculous! Of course there isn't... It's pretty harmless but

59:34 then this happens. So I spoke to a friend of mine who's a 33rd degree Freemason in the US and said, well can you tell me about what goes on because I can find anything I want about any of the degrees but the 33rd degree gets very difficult. I'm a member of the 33rd degree but not of the Scottish Rite, of a different rite so he explained to me that they actually took their instructions from somebody that came from outside, well from the Supreme Council. Who do they take instructions from? They take it from somebody outside where does he come from nobody knows and he tells you what to do and think there's no voting there's no argument you just do it yes Wow who is he we don't know what wow so at the top of Freemasonry their

1:00:30 Basically just listening to some puppet master some supreme council that they don't even ask questions about where it comes from. I'm not going to get popular for saying that but because i've spent so many years defending Freemasonry and it isn't Freemasonry because strictly speaking there are only sort of four official degrees and the Scottish Rite isn't officially Freemasonry, but I spent a lot of years tracing back the original degrees of the Scottish Rite at Freemasonry. And they're actually very different in large part from the ones that are used today they've been changed out of sight. The original ones are far more interesting but it does appear that there is

1:01:13 There is a conspiracy for want of a better word and despite being called conspiratorial I'm not but i don't know what's going on but it appears to be a beneficial conspiracy of trying to draw things together for the benefit of people generally in the way that they see their interpretation of what is right So I don't think there's anything, my reading is there's nothing negative about it. Washington is a beautiful city and they built that and that's great! It is but its caused alot of damage in the world too Well thats the political politics come out of Washington obviously fully debatable now will these people also have an overview? They certainly had control over Roosevelt

1:02:08 And you wonder what else they have an influence over. But I really don't know the answer, again i'm just bringing up the facts and let others join in the discussion about what it actually means. Fair! I get that awesome well I can't thank you enough man I really do appreciate a great show hinges on a great guest so I couldn't do without you but would like to remind people where they can get your books anything else going on? I don't have a website because i don't have time with my proper job, my proper company but obviously all bookshops Amazon or whatever and kindle or print version God's Blueprint being the recent one Civilization 1 being the book that kicked this whole measurement thing off. And it isn't too intimidating in terms of numbers who built them on various other ones but God's Blueprint

1:03:05 covers my change from being an atheist to believing in something quite huge. So, Amazon I guess or any bookshop. Right on! Amazing! Well Chris it's been an honor and a pleasure mad respect take care of yourself out there Thanks Greg good talk Alright people, there we go. Now that is a THC I feel like we can be proud of right? I think Chris has done a lot of research that is well worth hearing out Connections between the makers of the pyramids to the makers of Stonehenge through these measurements are quite acclaimed

1:03:41 Following them through Freemasonry is an intriguing road too. I like a guest who lets me down easy when I ask the off-the-wall questions, but it's a conversation that I consider educational even if you don't agree with everything you hear. Like, I definitely don't think we're alone in the universe... And the absence of proof doesn't really mean we should conclude that there's nothing there. I think we should just say that until we can check every corner of the universe, maybe we should just put a pin in it but... That's just me Either way i'd say this one has got just the right balance of substance and speculation The THC sweet spot if ever was one and I hope you guys concur with that We did have a couple early sound issues I hope everyone made it past that I don't know how I didn't catch it but I was so into the material

1:07:00 I don't know. We also revisit the importance of this object recovered under the Temple of Jerusalem that was talked about in the first hour, and my favorite part tracing back the elite families and tracking them through the power centers of the past As we get into the elite I had to ask if we see these measurements in the city of London or Vatican, had asked Chris's thoughts on other conspiratorial scapegoats. The waning influence of America and where the hidden hand might be shifting too all good stuff i mean if you remember Chris said he has been told first-hand that 33rd degree Scottish Rite Freemasons have their agenda set by some puppet master in the shadows

1:07:40 I mean that was really interesting, right? Frater X you might remember a while ago he wrote about this Trojan horse of Freemasonry he considered to be the Scottish Rite. If you go back and listen to that show it ties in here very nicely. We also talked about Atlantis or pre-cataclysm civilization and other fun stuff too. As for other news, the Q&A thread in the Plus Forums is filling up again. I love how active they've been! I've been trying to get on there more...I definitely read everything. I'm still trying to get email notifications set for forum replies that becomes one thing thats hard for me is refinding a reply someone might have given but the private messaging system is working great

1:08:24 And if you have any issues at all over there, just private message me because I will get that a lot easier than an email or Facebook message amongst the chaos that is those inboxes. And i'm going to have to do a second Q&A bonus show soon no doubt! I am also hoping to have Graham back on in about 30 days-ish from now and have the Armenia video done right along with it. I think thats appropriate and good timeline for that And the best bit of news really is this, because so many listeners like the closing songs that I have worked on with Lauren Silva specifically. And just lyrically her and her guys do everything else but we did a couple more and i really really love this one that I'm going to play today it's a higher side twist on a popular song and it touches a lot

1:09:15 of the topics that we love dearly. And this along with the other tracks will be added to the downloadable list of songs on The Plus site I put a lot of work into this show after last week's, i hope it paid off! I have more good ones coming but until then I gotta get outta here and you gotta hear this song So thats it for me people Your move mysterious moon makers of the Megalithic Yard YOUR FUCKING MOVE Oh no You see The world isn't random, it's attached to puppet strings Control over everything The 9-to-5 is trying to steal ya Now don't that job seem silly? Hello, can you hear me

1:10:08 Or should I play back recordings from some spying agency? Wish we were younger and free. I'll be thankful when it's all exposed, the vast conspiracy There's such a difference between me now And the Denver child Hollow from the highest high They're calling out a thousand cries They'll tell you the story Of everything that's been done And they'll call out deception Of the web that's been spawned

1:11:03 Hello from the higher side The earth is hollow inside They'll tell you about something that no one else will Have you heard about Saturn? Have you heard about the real since the moon? Oh, No They're cartoons It's so typical of me to talk about the stuff I'm sorry that's good and well Did you ever hear the argument That nothing really happens? It's no secret And that the best is plush It's doubling your time

1:12:09 Hello from the higher side They're calling out a thousand crimes They'll tell you something The elite have done And they'll call out deception On the web that's been spawned Hello from the higher side Challenging your power And I'll tell you something That the battle's begun But we can't fight it with violence The mind's where it's won As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world... As the world

1:13:28 They're calling out of their crimes They'll tell you, what they, the elite have done And they'll call out deception Of the web that's been spun From a higher side Challenging your paradigm They'll tell you Don't think that the battle's begun But we can fight it with violence The mind's where it's won, that's the war