Allen Greenfield | The Secret Cipher Of The UFOnauts, Occult Alien Contact, & Hellier

00:51 which means you'll unfortunately never hear my voice again. But I am psyched about this, I definitely loved the book or the two books put into one volume You know the connection between The Occult and The Sci-Fi Aliens is something we've talked about before but not to this depth and it's really crazy to me that this book came out in the 90s And I only just learned about it because it's very good Well the original edition of Secret Cipher came from Illuminate Press. At the time, that was one of the major publishers of both UFO and conspiracy stuff—a strange combination at best. And sure enough authors and ultimately the publisher mysteriously died off leaving George Andrews and me! I mean Harry Thornley is gone

01:53 Jim Keith who died in a very mysterious and unlikely circumstances is gone. And ultimately Ron bonds went to dinner with his wife and develop food poisoning which nobody else in the restaurant that they were going to develop, and within hours, which is how food poisoning works die so that was the end of Illuminate Press and it sold out the first edition But I think there was a long, long pause. Between the time that edition went out of print and as is always the case with the viper south there in the. Second hand market which by the way i get no royalties from not particularly matters to anyone other than poor for alexa, what are your manners to me but you know it's not my first concern my first concerns to get information out there

02:57 Between the first publication and publication of Secret Rituals for the Midden Black, it was a 10-year period. Why? You may say were you afraid of whoever is killing off these other people? No because I sleep with a gun under my pillow and a knife in my right hand. I'm just fine he said as he sank to the floor well that would be do, because the people in the apartment under me might get... they're elderly and might not understand. But in any case what happened was the illustrious Grand Puba of the ancient order of antiquity to which I then belonged we were driving from North Carolina to Atlanta because I talked him into doing an initiation that needed to be done that was

03:55 Above my pay grade gave me this long lecture on why i should not be doing ufo books as they were not respected. You know i mean in the relative order of things, I mean this is all marginalia to the public out there but there are relative orders of margin and the fact is that UFOs have a lot more public acceptance than the occult, which is assumed to be demonic or whatever. But nevertheless he was the guy in charge and I at that time cared what he thought so I put off publishing the second book and then published it with a long footnote addressed

04:42 indirectly to him and to other people that are in that same category saying, you best know what you're talking about before you talk about it. I believe that note is reproduced in the current edition of The Complete Secret Scypher for the Euphonauts which I think is now the definitive edition In any case, I haven't been affiliated with that cult in 15 years I haven't been really emotionally affiliated with it since i decided it wasn't an organization. It's a cult and, I'm just not a cultist. I don't want to wind up in the Branch Davidian compound burning up at the behest of some exalted poohbah or ruler. Not that saying this particular one is that extreme

05:34 He's just wrong, you know. Fair fair and cool all right let me knock out this intro and we'll really dive into it You mean all that was in over the air? I got it recorded! I'll throw it in there that was good It's a good preamble to the book Okay great In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. Far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire! For a new era of worldly frustration we offer A Fresh Conversation.

06:22 These are the higher side chats. Well abracadabra and open sesame people, from sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood and I hope your seat backs and tray tables are in the upright locked position because we're going on one hell of a ride today! Of course we've all heard the debate over little green men with almond eyes that go bump in the night? Are they advanced aliens from a distant planet or ancient ethereal entities that have been interacting with man since maybe the beginning of time? And what about Bigfoot, Mothman and the rich northern European lore of fairies? It might be easy to say these are all parts of the same thing but it's still hard to get a beat on what that thing even is. And the fact that paranormal and high strangeness researchers are so compartmentalized only makes the problem worse But when you examine cases like Crowley's channeling of Eiwass The Seth material The story of John Dee and Edward Kelly Or even something like the Shaver mystery

07:19 It seems like whenever you tap into a strong signal, the first thing these beings deliver is a language of some sort. And is it possible that the preservation of these coded languages and contact methods has been the basis for secret societies from ancient Babylonian priesthood right on through to modern Freemasonry? Well today's guest Alan Greenfield certainly thinks so and he breaks it all down in his two books The Secret Cipher Of The Euphonauts & The Secret Rituals Of The Men In Black Books he wrote back in the 90s that have now been reprinted as a single volume by Paranoia Publishing called The Complete Secret Cipher of the Euphonauts, A one-two punch that is still as poignant today as ever. You might have seen Alan and his secret cipher featured in the popular paranormal series Hellier where letters from a man seeking refuge from a group of little green goblins that were emerging from a cave to harass his family sent the research team down a winding rabbit hole of high strangeness

08:15 For the unfamiliar, Alan is not only a 35-year veteran of ufology and UFO investigative work. He's also been an occultist since 1960 and has practiced ceremonial magic almost as long. He also spent two decades climbing the ranks at the OTO only to leave the structured organization for more independent and individualistic path to illumination called The Free Illuminists Movement This is going to be a fun one and I'm psyched to get into it. A consecrated bishop in the esoteric Gnostic spiritual tradition, in the Codecrack and Sage of the Cipher, Alan Greenfield welcome to The Higher Side! I am so glad to be here you've said everything that I need to say so I bid you all good night. I'll see ya don't take any wooden nickels goodbye oh really? You were right on the money there so that's great

09:09 I try i try and this is a real treat i loved the complete secret cipher of the youth not it goes very deep in connecting modern you follow g2 contact rituals of occult traditions, add it starts off with a bang breaking down the basic premise into eleven bullet points. And i will read them all but right off the bat you say first Some people among us are in the know about UFO phenomena which have manifested throughout history. Certain people have known the nature of this phenomenon and used its nature for almost just as long

09:45 Which is a hell of a way to start a book when most people consider these things to still be a mystery it seems the further we go back the harder it is to be sure about anything but what could you tell us about this deep history of contact really get the ball rolling here. Well, the first thing that needs to be observed is that there has been communication with these whatsits of various stripes as you delineated, you know, cryptids and UFOs and even things like ghosts and apparitions and UFO phenomena. And all these things that seem to operate stripped to their core

10:30 in the same manner, suggesting that they are something that has always been with us. There have always been people who have communion to borrow Ritz term with these sources and you know my mind leaps immediately towards like entities. I don't know if they're entities, i'm not even sure we can know you know maybe that's a bad thing to say but We could know things about how it manifests and where it will manifest even if you use the cipher that I put in Komeet Seabright Cipher of the UFOnauts And have demonstrated myself

11:16 to my own satisfaction anyway i want other people to do their own experiments and either validate or disconfirm you know, my approach to it but I think that a certain tiny percentage of the people that come into communication, I'm avoiding the word contact because has different connotations now with this what's-it actually become interactive with it, grow into it and become what the BSRA which is the longest standing organization that looks at these things. And started out with me Dwayne at the helm who was both a proto-ufologist and a well read occultist

12:07 concluded that there are guardians, there are beings who are sort of the equivalent in Eastern Buddhist legend and lore, bodhisattvas. That is beings who start out as ordinary human beings just like thee and me or at least the, I have my doubts about me. And gradually through various stages ascend into communion with the whatever the what's it may be singular or plural and choose not to leave us here but rather become our

12:52 tutelary beings and guardians. And that is the term that in its early days, in the 1940s that need lane in the BSRA use this is good becoming a guardians. And there are different names the secret sheets of the third order which is the term that you hear it calls used to here a lot and call circles now it's brown because it's not pc, no that's the way our world operates if you don't play by the current rules then your considered an outsider or radical whatever it is

13:29 Well, I'm outside and radical but that's neither here nor there. I'm fearless because I'm old so what are they going to do? It is the advantage of age. Actually, I've been involved in all this work since 1960 and that's a good deal more than 35 years but I can't count that high anymore because you know the mind starts to go at 60 or 65 But I'll try to bring it back from the mists of the fog of mine. And what has happened in the last several months, if I may say so is what I had hoped would happen when the late Ron Bonds at Illumina Press was good enough to give me my first break as a book—I mean, I had lots of articles published

14:23 What's the first commercial book that i wrote and i expected people would take up the site for. Go gosh well let me try this because greenfield is clearly wrong find out bad, The cipher actually works in terms of predictive behavior, which is one of the missing scientific elements. In paranormal research and ufology and ghost lore in cryptid research these things...in field research in anything getting exact circumstances to reproduce themselves is very hard but of course in laboratory experiments

15:06 If what you're dealing with is the real McCoy, it's relatively easy. So the scientific formulation is that you don't credit if it isn't reproducible and doesn't mean you can grab a headline but if you want recognition in these scientific sense, do you have to be able to reproduce? The original experiment well my argument was if you use this cipher on key cases that is those the producer strange name or a strange quote planetary origin, then you're going to be able to predict the next big case. I had anticipated that people would take this up if only to disprove it and then get amazed or amused depending on their results it didn't happen that way

16:00 People in america today and keep in mind the book was coming out more or less at the time that people were. I don't know what to use tuning into the internet for the first time, add getting the first primitive cell phones and of course they had been watching television since before i was born which is scary and They're spectators for the most part. I'm not disrespecting anyone That's something that has been thrust upon people look at the bauble and not at the reality

16:41 I remember a cartoon which shows the father and son sitting in front of the TV. The father has his arm around his son, and they're watching a sunrise on TV but you can see behind them a window where their real sun is really rising. It raises questions why don't we look out that window? Yeah yeah these times And I thought, yeah. There you go! They want me to do the hard work so for a long time people would say well prove it and i said well we're with the cipher and you tell me if you find no results make it public and i'll own up to it If you find really good results as i suspect you will own up to that and that's what im trying to do but fast forward through

17:34 several obscure editions which, when they were out of print sold for exorbitant sums of money as any number of my books have. The book I wrote on the quasi-Masonic Rite of Memphis or if you prefer the Masonic Rite of Memphis or if you really prefer just the Rite of Memphis... When it went out of print in the original edition, the way these things work for people that are not in the writing or publishing game is that once it goes out of print and comes part of a secondary market from the rare book stores whatever the price goes way up but the original author

18:21 It's nothing that's how the three stages wound up in the old actors home they failed to get residuals on any of the things you see so if you enjoy this do you feel guilty yes yes publishing and entertainment they are dirty games and, So when you talk about the cult is or the groups who work with these entities and decipher as you write about how they become intertwined with the phenomena itself, that is a big part of the hell your series is a big part of them off man saga things get messy in the synchronicities can get so potent that you think you're going crazy but then use say.

19:02 The fully illuminated are in control of reality to the extent that the mythos itself is in control. They also, in a very real sense acquire its intangibility and that's very provocative and I hoped we could maybe elaborate on that what does it mean? To acquire its intangibility Well, I don't think those people that start out as people and wind up being guardians or secret chiefs, or that now very debatable archaic term the Great White Brotherhood. When I think about that, I think of guys with sheets over their heads dancing around a burning cross and that is not what I think Madame Blavatsky had in mind although one wonders at times but

19:53 You're no longer dealing with human beings in the three-dimensional sense. You're dealing with advanced beings who choose to be guardians of humanity, not go on to higher things which since I'm still here, I can't really describe except to say you become totally part of the phenomena itself And what form it takes, I think is probably a matter of choice more than anything else. Whether it's a big hairy skunk ape that appears and disappears in the same way as a UFO might appear and disappear or ghost or apparition or religious apparition or any of those things that's a matter

20:48 something resembling choice. Now for us that are on this side of the wall, that appears to be either depending on one's orientation a religious phenomena or magical phenomena or something that is just totally inexplicable but I have a hunch it follows its own rules and takes forms that are designed to accomplish something. The thing is, when you are attempting to understand that phenomena, you gradually get immersed in it and the way you know your getting immersed in it is that a number of synchronicities that happen in your life and around you

21:44 increase incrementally as you get closer and closer to whatever the what's it may be. And, what I started to say was the thing that did not happen when uh...the original version of Secret Cipher came out but is certainly happening synchronously with the complete Secret Cipher, The Euphonauts is that the impact of the Planet Weird People Hellier experience, which is the most authentic documentary I have ever seen of a field investigation. It's miles and miles and kilometers and kilometers for those listening in Europe that had ordinary understanding these manifestations. I wrote four words because just as in theoretical physics it gets beyond words very quickly

22:45 But the Hellyer crew, people from Planet Weird have documented how a field investigation actually goes. I can say that with great confidence because i've done quite a number of field investigations myself sometimes they produce really dramatic results and sometimes they seem to produce no results at all except that synchronicities happen all over once you get on the path You will find things happening that are very strange and the weird things that happen where hell you're was concerned is there filming it for real in something like real time. And these synchronicities begin to happen i think this one is particularly spectacular in fact its

23:39 part of my daily overwordy Facebook post today by synchronicity or coincidence, if you believe there are such things as coincidences. It's the similarity between what happened in Helyar to one of the experiences I believe it was Conor Randall and the quasi-mythical quest for The Holy Grail They're having, I probably will mangle the session a bit. So if they happen to be listening my apology for doing my own version of it especially to Connor but he was doing what i would call scrying because with the occult background that's the term that comes to mind

24:29 Using a spirit box which i've never used but you similar devices so i know the drill your cut off from those around you but they ask questions you can't hear the question what should you do here is that the spirit box produces by doing something equivalent to a police scanner on. Those people who like to listen to pilots and cops and hospital workers, and so forth. But they are eerily responsive in other words the person scrying doesn't even hear your questions but they sometimes and frequently and more than chance give specific answers. Well Connor I believe it was Connor is scrying and giving rather specific answers sitting on a porch

25:28 Hellier, Kentucky or near Hellier, Kentucky in a cabin that they had I presume rented and not crashed it. And suddenly he gets a vision of a tin cup which is totally non-sequitur to what they were doing and what they were accomplishing except that a few days later I presume the entire crew is at least all who were there go out to this abandoned mineshaft, which is also interestingly enough connected to the enormous cave system that runs under Kentucky and on into West Virginia following the entire route of a bunch of very strange phenomena that have from Mothman to the famous Kentucky Goblins case of the 1950s. So it's you know it's a high

26:26 incidents area they are into this mine shaft almost a cave because it's connected to caves and only go really in this particular. Expedition into the lip of the cave, which is fine with me because my advice to them was you guys should get helmets and lights, and maybe carry some water with you. And maybe have somebody who stays outside because spelunking is a specialty unto itself. And I want them all to be healthy and happy in any case what i derived from what was going on with them In that particular location was there wasn't teenager graffiti all over the walls

27:21 There was a trash on the floor and that tells me that whichever of the many entrances to other where you may find in Kentucky and West Virginia, which have to do with the fact that the coal industry has been in decline. Some of us would say it's a good thing but not good for people who wind up unemployed at these towns are classical appalachian war and continue to be so they haven't really come up since the great depression or the last great depression in any case it looks like they were in an untapped location. And there are we calling himself found it although its all cameras nobody was only anything, where is the cup from his vision a 10 cup and

28:22 That was interesting enough in and of itself, just called a synchronicity. But it occurred to me that if you strip it to the bones the legend of the search for the Holy Grail is identical to what was going on there. First there's the vision of the grail which is unexpected and then they find it well how does a tin cup of grail? First of all there's a great deal controversy in traditional religious circles about what the actual, if there was an actual Holy Grail was like. Was it one of these elaborate chalices that you see in high church churches? Or what would you expect from a poor carpenter and his four companions having their last dinner together in Jerusalem circa 32 CE

29:19 it would be either a ceramic or tin cup. And I did a little research and found a tin cup from the first century that was identical to the, at least in photographs—I haven't seen it in person though I intend to—to the cup that they found and that duplicated the one that Conner envisioned And if i can say something slightly controversial but not meant to make anyone uncomfortable, I believe that Connor Randall is the only

29:56 devout Roman Catholic among the people involved in the group. So it's a perfect match, a perfect set of synchronicities and is consistent with what I have found the mythological element that draws people into the phenomena that i've seen year after year after year all the way back to the 1960s when I've done field investigations myself Let me give you one example if I may? Sure! Or am I talking too much? No go for it Okay, let me think about it for just a second. Sure actually I lied I was taking a drink of water so that my voice stays Young at heart. I notice it starts the older you get them or there's gravel in your voice Finally you turn into Bill Clinton and disappear Or worse Babe Ruth, you know how bad this boy sounds what it feels just as bad I shouldn't do that or I'll be talking that way all day

30:52 Where was i an example of synchronicity outside of what we saw in hell you're with the ten cup okay thank u. I need to follow me around when i have no senior moment she whispered my ear what you were talking about was where is the restroom happy to do so One of the field investigations that I did rather thoroughly was in the late 1960s, actually I can date it exactly because of an external event. The Brown Mountain Lights which fascinating though the lights themselves are and in fact that even becomes a sort of secondary focus in the Hellyer documentary

31:45 If one goes to look for the lights, one finds any number of really good UFO or UFO type cases in the vicinity of Brown Mountain North Carolina. And I have been on two expeditions that started out looking for the lights and wound up interviewing in one case a person who I think qualifies as a classical contactee And in other cases, very close. I believe they would be called type two encounters by the nuts and bolts ufology people that is seeing things up close without actually doing anything that would involve communication with the phenomena. The guy who ran back in the day, the outer space workshop museum had a story to tell us

32:47 is outer space rock shop was on the hill from the. Show you a place which is probably the worst place for the brown mountain lights and this guy what's the classical contact now he was backwards good boy and i don't know what you know from the far off island of san diego or a future island, as the case may be. But a good old boy is not likely to have been schooled in classical mythology or Wagnerian opera It's just not part of their thing In fact this guy was an old moonshiner who had settled on which was not uncommon in that neck-of-the woods and his name was Ralph Lael

33:49 L-A-E-L. He did write a sort of book which he handed to us, as long as we hand it him the dollar and it details the story that is more or less again stripped to the bare bones identical with this story of ten housers but medieval actual knight who has the whole mythos surrounding him, seduction by the goddess Venus and who descends into the Venusberg, the mountain of Venus. And sort of betrays his knightly oaths by indulging himself among these naked beings inside which he claims that he was taken to the inside

34:46 Brown Mountain and then whisked off to the planet Venus where everyone ran around naked. And I don't know what else they did because it was a short book, but tantalizingly enough they were not native to Venus they had come there from a lost planet called P'Wam. And of course when you use the secret cipher a word like P'Wam is too good to not analyze. In any case, his story involving the planet Venus you find in the story from the medieval sagas that the knight gets seduced by the goddess Venus and goes into the Venusburg which is filled with these sabiritic

35:42 naked fairies who are all seductive and he has a displacement in time, and when he comes out He needs to repent from all that. Well that's Lael story in a nutshell except instead of the goddess Venus you substitute the planet Venus and the story is the same story. So, the question arose with me Is it at all possible that this guy has read some version of this? This is me in the 1960's You know 19... I think the last time I was there was Christmas Eve 1968. I remember well because I was there with Tim Beckley

36:27 Mr ufo is he likes to start himself. The great friend of mine jim mosley engines at that time very young daughter ready, And I had the thought when we went all the way up to the best view spot you could possibly have, to see the Brown Mountain Lights after interviewing Lail. I thought this is a hell of a way for 12 year old girl to be spending Christmas Eve but i didn't say anything because I didn't want to create any bad vibes with Jim Mosley not a person who wanted to do bad vibes with

37:08 But getting back to Lail that Christmas Eve, which was also the occasion of the first circumlunar astronauts reading from the Bible. Which Genesis 1 I think it was appropriately enough and when we got back to our hotel with Tim Beckley's room he turned on the TV so we couldn't hear him calling his mother or something, I don't know I was showing a live picture from the orbit around the moon and one of the astronauts was reading Genesis. My first reaction was, oh god something has gone wrong and they're caught in orbit around the moon forever but this was not the case it

37:59 kind of a, I don't know if you'd call it a stunt but let's say it was something that NASA... A ritual maybe. Yeah that's better than what I was going to say so we'll go with ritual that NASA cooked up to make everyone back home not think that we were violating God's holy space because this man was meant to go the moon and god would have given us a ladder right? But in any case, getting back to Lale. That story in 1968 is clearly a parallel to the mythos of the Venusberg and that puts Brown Mountain in the same category as the Venusberg A place where the goblins and fairies lurk waiting to seduce the unwary

38:54 And how on earth does a backwoods moonshiner get that? Now, my synchronicity following that was the next day some man in black shows up at my room door. Somehow or other I think that's one of the very few times something was done to me because under most circumstances even back then i would immediately ask Who are you and how did you know where my room was and that I'm involved with Ralph Lale? Instead, I invited the guy in. He's well-dressed middle aged dark suit of course And he proceeds to dump on Ralph Lale and warn me about his dangerousness blah blah blah blah none of which made any sense to me

39:48 told me well we'll be in touch and he left and like within a minute or so the spell was over. I thought why didn't i ask him for business card, why did they asked how did you know i was here that i was visiting lael what is your possible motive for dumping on way to me but that never occurred to me as long as it's there All these years that I've been involved in this stuff, that's happened to me maybe three times. And the other times were much more mundane. One was an argument that we won't get into with a guy now deceased who had been a high-level Scientologist who had drug problems and they kicked him out. You know kicking somebody out doesn't mean they lose their skills. And he hoodooed me

40:44 I mean, I have hoodoo people when circumstances were absolutely life or death. But this guy who do me into believing something about him that simply wasn't true and I didn't wake up from that so to speak for months afterwards and only because I had recorded him on tape saying the opposite of what I had come to believe because the best thing I can say about Scientology is that its techniques work. The worst thing I can say about Scientology is that it's techniques work

41:23 Touche touche man great stories are great examples of how the mythos works and how these archetypes overlap in different stories in different times and spaces, add that's also a very kinda classic thing with the men in black encounter this. Kind of trance state that seems to come over person and man time is really flying by here and i wanted to ask you about some things that you have in the book cuz it is just so deep And when it comes to the back and forth with these beans in the groups of people that are involved in contact on both sides you right.

42:01 Often when a person or institution allied with the historical great white brotherhood again problematic term but you know the light side approaches success or comes into possession of certain aspects of transcendent wisdom, something intervenes that something has been identified as the man in black the men and black the black lodges or the black lodge. that they need to do this and that they often fail in their efforts is itself an indication that a black lodge is opposed by something else equally as strong, and be there are afraid of something we might find out about them about their opposition about ourselves.

42:45 or all three and of course it's been a while since you wrote this but can you elaborate on those indications what do you think they might be afraid that we find out it does seem like there something special about people were fearful of them but they also seem to have this weird curiosity about us or there's something odd about that dynamic. And I'm just curious if you could elaborate on what you think is going on there with this relationship? Yeah, I should say that because I've started to say it a couple of times and wandered away from it in that septuagenarian way but after Hellyer appeared first on Amazon and then on YouTube for free for nothing

43:34 not for nothing but free the very thing that i had hope it would happen twenty years earlier has been happening which is people have been having a large number of synchronicity's have been getting co participation in the ritual where hell your ears and its spread out like waves it also has increased dramatically the book sales of complete secret site for you and that's good for me but i think it's ultimately good for the public because people who are getting off of their shares and motivated perhaps because how is your motivation to do there all investigations

44:26 So I didn't mean to change the subject. It's not really a change, I asked myself then and got my answer a lot later First of all, I do express in the book I believe that black lodges haven't always been black they are high-level magicians who know a great deal about the phenomena and how to manipulate it and how to become it who at some point in their career wore a monopoly on truth. And at that point, at that crucial point instead of being the sharing that I described in The Guardians or The Great White Brotherhood so-called or The Secret Chiefs of the Third Order they decide to obfuscate and keep other people back

45:33 Once they make that decision, whether it's a conscious decision or whether it's just slowly incrementally coming into being. At some ill-defined point they become a black launch and start fighting dirty and deflecting attention from the real McCoy to what that guy I think was doing to me in North Carolina which is trying to discourage me from taking an interest in the Lail case and seeing it for what it is. He failed, but not without having manipulated me." That was low level that was what Aleister Crowley called a black brother which doesn't necessarily exempt him from the same label being a Black Lodge which is a community of these higher beings that have turned towards

46:29 the dark side of the force. What was that? The dark side of the force. I think humor is the only thing that keeps you sane in this work, that's a parathetic thing that i do that often leaves people suspecting that I'm amused by all this, which I am and I'm not because i think that it is a life or death struggle for the future of humanity. Which is nothing to sneeze at right but I always wondered how does that happen? That people who start out on the same path that winds up being ascended masters protective of humanity

47:15 at some point turned dark. And I saw it personally in the alleged ancient order of antiquity, which i spent 20 years in and I'm not going to specify this context but I saw it by degrees unintended turn dark And it turned dark because it became cultic and jealous of its specialness. Instead of, as we free illuminists say sharing and co-participating in illumination with the rest of humanity. It just can happen power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely if an organization is top heavy it will tend to that direction If it has no

48:10 Supreme leaders or supreme dogmatic rules it's much less likely to happen. But the dark side of the force for using this is very seductive yes and how deep do you think these black lodges are this dark side of the forest this men in black Phenomenon is attached to how deeply embedded in government or military intelligence do you think these lodges are having looked at this stuff since the sixties man there's a lot of crazy stuff through the sixties seventies eighties and now of course. Do the stars academy basically come out of this military intelligence nexus i'm just curious your thoughts on that because politics and the government is obviously a third rail here,

49:05 And if these lodges are so illuminated as to have all this insight that you know the common man or even the common politician wouldn't have. How in control are these lodges of culture and of the general narrative i think of the general narratives only in that kind of secondary way that all of these quote history like unquote tv programs many which have been on that supposedly involve investigations of government projects devoted to UFOs or strange phenomena, or ghosts, or whatever are not. And they really put people on the wrong track. Red herrings! Yeah and I'm prepared to say that i personally believe with a couple of exceptions

50:04 The notion that the government, you know no specification beyond that is in possession of more of the real McCoy secrets than planet weird people is wrong. I probably know a lot more about the actual nature of UFOs and related phenomena than anybody connected with any government project, the Navy's more current project or going back to Project Signed Grudge Blue Book. These were very, very small operations. They were three people and a secretary you know and the secretary probably knew more than the colonel put in charge of the project it's just not where the action is because the assumption made by

51:02 the government was either this is a nuts and bolts phenomena by which I mean that it's physical presence of alien beings from another planet, they came to Earth to borrow a term with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal man or it's misidentification natural phenomenon for its series of folks. Those are deflections. None of those things are true one of my great Ponderables that I don't really have a good answer for at least psychologically is Why on earth when not UFOs per se? because they go back to the dawn of the planet, but certainly to the dawn of humanity and

51:56 Why when they show up in public consciousness shortly after World War II is the immediate response that these are visitors from another planet and that has been reinforced over and over again? It's not an impossibility, although I think people who espouse that rarely confront the distances between stars let alone galaxies. Used to be oh they're men from Mars well we know a good deal more about Mars than we did in 1947 it's more likely that our

52:41 Earthly spacecraft that go to Mars are the phenomena on Mars, then Martians are the phenomena on Earth. So it's moved out to Sirius which is a hot relatively new star unlikely to be an absolute source of any kind of intelligent life and then all down into the universe where distances are awesome It's not impossible because technology can always have breakthroughs that we haven't had yet. You know, warp drive is one of the devices that science fiction uses to get by that but we don't have a warp drive and there may not be possibility of that but even if there is and even if there is life on other planets

53:32 Why would the immediate assumption for something seen either on or near the earth only? Never seen deep in space all that excitement last year when that whatever it was, a muamua as it was called and Hawaiian possibly an asteroid or who knows what exactly it was. Nobody does came from a extra solar source. For the first time anything like that had ever been spotted, an enormous speculation and enormous... Well

54:15 There you go. It's not a common thing for things to come creeping in from outside the solar system simply because there are vast distances between solar systems, but immediately people in 1947 from Kenneth Arnold on are talking about aliens from other planets and I'm wondering why that was the leak? Why to that? Why not, oh this is a religious phenomena and we all need to go back to church or whatever. What could have been just another one of those red herrings because yes it does appear that the government or military intelligence is obsessed with the nuts and bolts aspect on the surface but the cia is no stranger to experiments in consciousness, the blue blood elite are not strangers to say answers commuting with the nine this kind of stuff so i think a deeper level they've connected this stuff i think the cia's as well aware that.

55:15 Consciousness and channeling and summoning is a lot closer to what these creatures are than spacecraft they won't tell us that but there's documents that show back in the fifties and sixties they were, they're pretty on this thing they were hovering over the target it seems so i can only imagine sense. That day they haven't wise up their not gonna project outwardly to the rest of the world but I think they know don't you know i think they probably no less than the most sophisticated people in research what do is instruct it, i have a interesting conversation with doing for me who was the pinnacle monitor or project new book back during the period where

56:06 UFOs were seen over restricted airspace. This is long 3911, restricted airspace in DC that would be over the White House and Pentagon etc., and there was a tremendous UFO flap it's how you first came to my attention in fact because my father was going on about it cause it was headline news in the summer in July of 1952 after that Ornay informed me, and I have since seen documentation for. You have to get back into the mentality of the time, the red-baiting notion that the Soviet Union was looking for an opportunity to attack us with their nuclear bombers—of which they probably had three with propellers—and that

57:01 Private UFO organizations, said the CIA in their 1953 panel could be infiltrated by communists. Again this is the spirit of those times, the McCarthy era and used to create an artificial UFO flap that would mask a Soviet all-out first strike attack and therefore, said the CIA we need to do something to suppress these organizations because they're too vulnerable to Soviet influence. They also by the way thought of the same thing about the PTA so you know we need to put these things in relative terms that may explain some of the early really

57:49 anomalous cases it certainly may explain some of the explanations you have coming out of the military but when you talk about and i assume your talking about. The government program to see if lsd cause people to become basically using it as a hypnotic right mk ultra goes alot deeper but that's definitely a threat of mkl sure yeah but Who or what is MKUltra? Is it a government program, or is it something that masks itself as a government program. My contact with this phenomenon and when I say phenomena here, I'm including those who investigate or purport to investigate the

58:41 Anomalies which have emerged over the last well since world war two. My whole lifetime today is that it's a very very secondary thing to the government it's a very very big thing to other interests And the reason I say that is because every program that is government-related, not counting secret weapons programs that are mistaken for extraterrestrial vehicles which I think like Area 51 the government has encouraged. They'd rather have people chasing something from the planet P'Wom than riveting their interests on

59:31 let's say the B-1 bomber that was probably developed at one of those facilities, that are said to be secret alien bases. If there are secret alien bases they're not in tandem with the government I don't think and that's based on my 50 plus years experience in dealing with this and having gone through the blue book files which I did at the courtesy of the invitation of the head of the Senate Armed Services Committee, who happened to be my senator. Who I happen to have caught it home and expressed that view that the Blue Book files after Blue Book was closed needed to be preserved so I wound up getting a chance to have a look

1:00:26 You may be right and I'm maybe on the wrong path there. Most of what i say, I am confident of where the government is concerned, I'm confident of nothing However that said my guess is that significant work That is being done Is so ethereal involving synchronicities involving investigators becoming part of a phenomenon in involving stuff that clearly is not of this world. If there is any government involvement, it goes beyond government involvement because it undermines the whole notion of a three-dimensional reality being all that there is in the universe and all that explains

1:01:23 whatever it's supposed to be explaining. I don't think there is any truth in that and i think that if there were a big government interest you would never have seen a public development of quantum physics because quantum physics kind of undermines the whole notion of 3D reality Fair fair well as we are wrapping this up given that the secret cipher was written in the nineties twenty plus years ago, are there insights you've gained since then that you would have added or any way that you would change it today i know you been out of the game a little while when it comes to this stuff you haven't been embedded and ufology but what'd you make changes are addendums today.

1:02:08 I wasn't aware that i had been out of ufology what i have been out of is the transition between publishing the little newsletters that you have to collate and fold and stamp and seal, get out your 300 subscribers as opposed to posting something today on facebook or on your own website and reaching Tens of thousands of people. Fair, fair It took me a while to make that transition but I haven't ever been out of the occult or ufology or anything else

1:02:43 what I was up until about 15 years ago, was limited as to how much i could do with you because because it got flat from the supposed magical order that I was affiliated with. So getting out of that is a good time was like getting out of jail so from that point on I have integrated various interest openly whereas during that period I was somewhat reticent as it had been discouraged by the powers that be not, he said cryptically. Right? Fair enough. Yes. That's a good clarification so you wouldn't really change the secret cipher or add anything to it that you've learned in the past couple decades now I will say this that when I was approached well before Hellyer was

1:03:44 Even earlier one of the by paranoia press about getting out a combined edition i said oh something that. I think it's what is course but i think i can buy an addition with save people money on buying both and they are sort of. Kind of out of print i don't know that term even applies anymore because so much of the printing is done by print or demand services as Many people will tell you, therefore there is no such thing as out of print as such. Unless you pull it out of print which happened with one of my books I think the distance between the two was a mask because when i wrote Secret Cipher and Secret Rituals I was on a sabbatical in my hometown

1:04:42 and in a rough period of my life where I concentrated on pretty much nothing else. And they were written essentially as one book, and now for the first time it is published as one book, The Complete Secret Science of the Euphodonts. Would I change a paragraph here or a paragraph there? I don't think there's anybody who has ever written anything that has been published that wouldn't brush it up a little bit. But would I change any of the fundamentals involved? Not at all, and I believe there's some new introduction that sort of clarifies the entire issue certainly the old introduction didn't clarify anything

1:05:26 Right on yes why love did it definitely flowed they definitely are a great set to have in one volume and this is been a wild ride man i really enjoyed it, i know you have several other books and website full of even more material could you tell people about some of this work and where to get before we really call it. Oh yeah always say the best way to get my website which is being transferred to a new server is just to spell my name right on Google. Google my name, Alan A-L-L-E-N not one of those others Greenfield G-R E-E-N F-I-E-L-D and since I've been on the internet since before it was the Internet you'll find a plethora

1:06:16 of piñatas. Well, not a plethora of piñatas but you'll find a plethora of references including my website and Facebook page Mr. Zuckerberg doesn't allow you to have more than 5,000 friends so I have my 5000 friends but occasionally I lose a friend so you can get in there and you could always just follow the page it's updated virtually daily and i always come up with something pretty weird and fascinating to post every single day on Facebook My site is more illuminating than that and if you still catch it i think its still has another month in its old location. Which is very dated but nevertheless google my name, find my wordpress site, my mind screen which is extinct

1:07:13 server never was that it goes back to 1995 the site's been up since then but it's been you know revised and revised and revise prepare to be shocked there is a lot of shocking stuff on hand finally the other book that is current that doesn't sell anywhere nearly as well as the complete secret of Euphanos is, as I mentioned earlier God never does the same thing twice which is my ganza book. I pulled out all of my stops and said what have I learned about reality in the 73 years I have been incarnate here? And that's what it is

1:07:59 It's me talking to you so anybody cares what my intuition and opinions are you might want to. Get yourself a copy of god never does the same thing twice which again is not religious book it is unless gonzo is a religion Well to some people it is but either way very very cool i know you've had a really deep and rich and exciting an adventurous life so i definitely would be interested in. Say so far that makes me always say its been interesting so far

1:08:42 You never know what tomorrow will bring. Right, right touche well This has been a really good time very provocative I really appreciate spending some time with me today and keep up the great work. I'll do my very best you too Rock Me Like A Hurricane Hireside Chatters The Secret Cipher of The Youponauts finally revealed Alan Greenfield with one hell of a premise. The very foundation of secret societies and occult orders being built around contact protocols to communicate with the whatsits, and the what-have-yous in the shadows? I like it! And what are grimoires but usually exactly that at least in part...and now of course this is another THC episode that was recorded pre Corona chaos

1:09:38 i have to apologize to alan because i know he was anxious to be able to share this with his followers, think it was happy with how it turned out and there is already a go the day after things started too. Get taken up to such a level that i just couldn't release another show that didn't address it Like i said before it be if i had four shows pre recorded and then nine eleven happened you're not gonna release, for episodes of a show of this nature that don't talk about that big unprecedented thing we just experienced.

1:10:14 So, first I put my own statement out because it was the fastest thing that we could do. Then we talked around it with Ross Benn because he was on the schedule then we spent some time with David Crowe and then went over again with Gordon and Chris so...I think we can start to get back to business around here a little bit Believe me this Corona crackdown is an unprecedented thing that has me concerned that it won't be over soon I said it from that beginning statement now that they got us all inside. When is the virus gone? I just don't know, i don't think we're getting out so quickly not just gonna be two weeks and of course its going to come up in every show that record during this time period and i'm catering some more guests line-up to be more in the medical expert space

1:11:06 I also think we might be getting mentally exhausted by this and maybe a conversation about demon aliens is a nice break although i am gonna do a little live. Video webinar session with gordon to go over the information we've both been digesting since that interview, The material he's been putting in his coronavirus newsroom and some of the stuff that I've been putting in the plus form along with some other members now at this point, which is great because I was just hoping to kick that news share off. But regardless, if you want to get in on that live stream that we're going to be doing I will email the link out To plus members. It's not something i ever really do unless We have to like for a technical reason Emailing all the plus members en masse. I might have done it five times over Five years but I don't know how else to get you the link in a timely manner. I can't just expect you to

1:12:05 Randomly check the website especially when so many people listen to podcast through an app but if you are hearing this show as it comes out on friday i guess you have some time to sign up for plus if u want that email but im gonna email that link out on saturday and us bubble boys will be breaking down for ya over bubble tea monday evening six pm pacific time. You do have to sign up because we're probably going to go over Zoom's size limit with our powers combined and it seems to be a better practice for not crashing the system if we have everyone pre-registered. So, be on the lookout for that email! Gordon is actually doing a lot of these tea party webinars as he's calling them and then I said bubble boys...and it just works! Bubble Tea Party!

1:13:02 But I do think this is going to be a fun one because we've both been digesting just...a ton of information. But who hasn't, right? Anyway as for today's show, I had just finished Hell Year when Olav from Paranoia messaged me about the release of the complete secret cipher of The Euphonauts and asked if i'd like to talk to Alan and of course I jumped on it! Not because i really loved hell year all that much to be honest, i mean i love the first episode a lot but i thought it kind of fizzled out a bit from there. I do understand the meaning and the value and the surprise of getting hit with a high dose of synchronicity when you're in that paranormal vortex or feeling like you've been led down a path

1:13:49 It's kinda like explaining your dreams to someone i don't think it translates as well do others or tv. What when allen says its a very genuine and accurate depiction of a field investigation and the weirdness involved i'm sure it is i don't doubt that at all, for that reason probably does hold a special place in paranormal media history But it was the aspects that related to Alan and The Secret Cipher that I did find most interesting. And when i got deep into the book itself, man there is just so much interesting material and a ton of great lines! I wish we could have hit more of those quotes to have Alan elaborate on that I could have pulled out in my outline but it was a little tough to keep him on track

1:14:38 Which i still thought was pretty fun but how many asked a couple questions in the first hour so in the second. I scrapped a lot of the stuff that was planned to wait us slowly into deep waters and i just jumped to the last page and thought alright let's get into it the clock is ticking by a lot faster than expected and i am really happy with some of that stuff very provocative And those deeper levels, these deeper waters I'm talking about they're all kind of wrapped up in these two secret factions and the spiritual battle for humanity. And it's really a great compliment to some of the stuff we got into at Lone Milo D'quette a few weeks back because compromising or interacting with that human power of creation is a big part of that mix as well

1:15:31 So the first hour we kind of set the stage, talked about Helya a bit and the Grail quest parallels. But in The Plus Show we got into the Greys' sexual fluids and sodomy secretions Wilhelm Reich Orgon and the aliens The importance of banishing rituals Messages from beings that come from worlds that have been conquered by the greys Transcending dimensions via the Enochian process and just all kinds of interesting stuff. And it kind of is a shame because I was really, really psyched to get this episode out to the world before reality got turned upside down but you know this too shall pass and then maybe we can be interested in stuff like this again if you want to dive deeper into Alan's book i definitely recommend it! It has got a ton of interesting content in it

1:16:30 It's very detail-oriented, somewhat over my head but I tried my best to hang on for that ride. And it's basically two books in one now! With that big thanks again and apologies for the delay, I told him a little over a week and its been much longer than that... I love you guys. Hope you're all maintaining your sanity out there plus members be on the lookout for that email if you want to join the bubble tea party with Gordon on Monday and i'll talk to you then Your move what's-its, what have yous, UFO knots and secret keepers of The Black Lodge You're fuckin' Woke up this morning With light in my eye And then realized

1:17:23 It was dark outside. It was like coming down from the sky, no know who or why Must be those strangers that come every night Whose saucer-shaped light put people uptight Leave blue-green footprints that glow in the dark I hope they get home Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along? Don't do anything wrong Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along to the higher side

1:18:40 I woke up this morning was feeling quite weird. I had flies in my beard, my toothpaste was smeared. I opened my window they'd written my name said so long we'll see you again. Mr. Spaceman, won't you please take me along? Don't do anything wrong Hey, spaceman Won't you please take me along to the higher side Hey, mr. spacement Won't you please take me along

1:19:48 I won't do anything wrong Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along the high side?